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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Skin Issues in Blue Male

Hoping someone on here will have had a similar experience an a successful treatment plan...
My two year old, neutered, blue male is having skin issues. He's had them his entire life, but they seem to be getting worse.
When I first decided to get a blue I was aware they had some skin issues but his seem to be getting worse with age.
It started off with bumps when he was a puppy. We switched him to a grain free, limited ingredient diet and that seemed to help for a bit. Found out he was allergic to chicken. But the bumps never completely went away.
He also has the "frito" body odor. I've taken him to three different vets, had him on antibiotics, prescription shampoos and thyroid testing done with no results.
He is now two years old, with most of his body covered in small, whitish scaly bumps. His skin is itchy and flakey, to the point of developing hot spots. The frito smell is still there and now it appears he is developing vitiligo.
Over the past two years I've tried various diet changes, multiple OTC and prescription shampoos, Dino Vit supplements and two rounds of antibiotics. Has anyone else had issues like this? I'm frustrated because I dont know what to do to help his skin.
Other than the skin issues he acts normal, good energy levels and appetite.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 11:41 PM
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Hi newbie...
I am hoping that the owner of the Grandsire of my boy will chime in. She has an almost 14yo Fawn. And she knows as much as anyone here about dilutes and their issues.

In any case... Welcome from the Pacific NW!

John
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 05:22 AM
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Yep...hang tight Dobebug will chime in soon.......she has a Blue and will have plenty of advise for you.

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie-k View Post
Hoping someone on here will have had a similar experience an a successful treatment plan...
My two year old, neutered, blue male is having skin issues. He's had them his entire life, but they seem to be getting worse.
When I first decided to get a blue I was aware they had some skin issues but his seem to be getting worse with age.
It started off with bumps when he was a puppy. We switched him to a grain free, limited ingredient diet and that seemed to help for a bit. Found out he was allergic to chicken. But the bumps never completely went away.
He also has the "frito" body odor. I've taken him to three different vets, had him on antibiotics, prescription shampoos and thyroid testing done with no results.
He is now two years old, with most of his body covered in small, whitish scaly bumps. His skin is itchy and flakey, to the point of developing hot spots. The frito smell is still there and now it appears he is developing vitiligo.
Over the past two years I've tried various diet changes, multiple OTC and prescription shampoos, Dino Vit supplements and two rounds of antibiotics. Has anyone else had issues like this? I'm frustrated because I dont know what to do to help his skin.
Other than the skin issues he acts normal, good energy levels and appetite.
OK--I'm here--if you haven't seen a dermatologist/allergist about your blue dog that should be your first step.

The bumps that he's had for most of his life sound like staph and many Doberman puppies have bouts of staph (generally caused by the fact that Dobe's immune system tends to be slow to mature) and it doesn't make any difference what color they are. The fact that they never really cleared up in spite of treatment with shampoos and antibiotics. The odor is often the result of infections of the follicles.

I suspect that the problems you've encountered so far with his skin aren't necessarily related to his color--CDA usually doesn't really start to be an issue until the dog is older--2 or 3 years or more. And CDA doesn't necessarily appear in conjunction with skin issues. CDA really is associated with hair loss. Some dogs do have additional problems with skin problems but what you are describing sounds more like un4resolved problems with plain old puppy staph.

I've been looking at dilute dogs for years (because I looked for a show quality fawn male for years) and while sometimes you see blues wth more hair loss and skin issues than fawns--it's going to show up in both.

when you got your blue puppy had you seen any of his relatives? CDA has a genetic component and usually dilute puppies who have relative who retain good coats will also have good coats. Or at least better than average coats.

CDA does tend to get worse with age. That's a given. I don't know what kind of protocol the vets you've seen have used on the skin problems the puppy has had. A lot of general practice vets don't put them on a long enough regimen of antibiotics to actually clear up the problem and an unfortunate number of vets (including some dermatologists) will simply shrug off the skin problems, saying that it's because they are blue or fawn.

Which vet thinks he's now developing vitiligo? Because of the whitish spots?--bad, unresolved skin infections (usually because of staph infections) can cause scarring at follicles which will leave unpigmented spots.

Some of the directions for using medicated shampoo can actually aggravate the skin issues. The general rule for bathing short coated single coated dogs like Dobes is they don't need to be scrubbed and that can irritate folliciles enough to cause folliculitis (infections in the follicle itself--that's often the cause of the corn chip/frito like smell).

Making sure that all shampoo is thoroughly rinsed helps and a final rinse with a couple of cups of plain old white vinegar added to a gallon of water will--leave it on the coat and the dog will stop smelling like a salad when it dries but the vinegar does two things--it'll get rid of any residual shampoo and the slight acidity is very good for dog skin.

And use cool to cold water when bathing and rinsing. Dog skin really doesn't like warm to hot water although the dog may like it--it too can cause problems.

My fawn dog who will be 14 in November has other fawn relatives (or did have) who retained good coats. He is hypothyroid but when he started showing signs of hair loss I had his vet run a full thyroid panel and he was very low normal--on appropriate dosage of thyroid meds his coat grew back and even now he has a full coat.

I did look for over 40 years for this dog--trying to find show quality and fawn in the same dog wasn't easy but I have to tell you that even if you try to do all the right things (like get your dilute dog from a breeder who is known to produce dilute dogs who actually tend to retain good coats) and get lucky you may still have a dog who ends up with a less than wonderful coat.

And if you search DT using dobebug + dilution you can find a bunch of posts from me about dilution and how to handle it.

By the way--my fawn dogs eats the same kibble that all of my other dogs have eaten for the last 20 years or so--Purina ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach.

Good luck

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 10:51 AM
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Poor Toad--Lady Di--he says to tell you he's FAWN not blue...

,vbg>

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much dobebug for all of your information, and to everyone else who commented.
I will go talk to my vet and see about putting him on another round of antibiotics for a longer period of time. The vet also ran a thyroid test and everything came back clear. However, I'm not sure if it was a full panel or just checking for basics. I'll be sure to touch on that as well when I go back.
About how long should they be on they be on the antibiotic regimen? Just so I have an idea for what to discuss with my vet.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:23 PM
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Grrrr--DT just vanished another post for me.

It's very hard to say how long this round of antibiotics should last. He's been on two rounds so far and the problem is that if the original infection wasn't cleared completely it just gets harder to clear up (you get more resistant bacteria every time the antibiotic isn't given long enough to actually eliminate the bacteria causing the infection). I've known puppies or young dogs where ended up on antibiotics for 6 or 8 weeks before everything was clear and the skin no longer infected.

I'd still recommend a dermatologist if you haven't had him seen by one yet.

And I think that I'd wait on doing another thyroid test until the skin issues are cleared up. You really want to see the results of the thyroid test--and the vet should be willing to explain the tests and what the results mean. A lot of times all that has been tested for is T4 or maybe T4 and free T4 by ED. And a lot of vets see anything with in the normal limits (even if it's very low) and say it's OK--in Dobes it's not necessarily OK--it should be around mid range. And if you are getting a full thyroid panel it should include not just T4 and free T4 by ED but T3, Free T3, TSH,and TgAA. And I'd want it sent to MSU to be read--they still are the gold standard on thyroid testing.

Good luck with this--skin problems are just the pits--often hard to diagnose and very often take a long time to clear up.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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I think I would ask for a culture and sensitivity test on his skin...at this point, especially if he's been on various antibiotics but not long enough to truly clear up the condition, he probably has resistant bacteria lurking around just waiting to pop up whenever they get a chance. A culture and sensitivity will tell you if you're dealing with a problem bacteria (which is at least part of the problem, IMO) and what antibiotic is likely to be most effective in getting rid of it.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
I think I would ask for a culture and sensitivity test on his skin...at this point, especially if he's been on various antibiotics but not long enough to truly clear up the condition, he probably has resistant bacteria lurking around just waiting to pop up whenever they get a chance. A culture and sensitivity will tell you if you're dealing with a problem bacteria (which is at least part of the problem, IMO) and what antibiotic is likely to be most effective in getting rid of it.
Ah, I missed suggesting a culture and sensitivity test--and it's a very good idea for cases where the dog has been on antibiotics and is still showing evidence of and infection--thanks for reminding me, Mel.

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