Each poop starts healthy then ends as a mess of diarrhea - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Each poop starts healthy then ends as a mess of diarrhea

Hoping someone can give some insight into what may be our issue. For 2 years now, we've been fighting persistent diarrhea. Our boy just turned 2 years old in June, and weighs ~78 lbs.

We've tried feeding Orijen, Acana, and are currently feeding Earthborn Holistic Turkey (grain-free). Each meal is also blended with a grain-free pate with either turkey, chicken, beef, or duck as the protein.

Each time he goes to poop, it starts out very healthy and well-formed, and ends in a puddled mess of diarrhea. I would think if it was simply a food allergy, it'd consistently be a mess?

We've tried supplementing with plain yogurt and a tiny amount of cheese, but neither seem to have impacted the situation. Any ideas on what we could try next to ensure things firm up and stay healthy?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 01:38 PM
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What happens if you only feed dry kibble without mixing with a pate?
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 01:59 PM
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Another question is what his poop looks like when you simply feed less food? Also, what kind of treats for he get, and how many does he get a day?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:27 PM
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what is the protein percentage. My dogs do not do well on high protein. I do not go above 26% if I do they get exactly what you have described. Currently feeding Fromm Salmon ALA Veg. Supplement 1/2 can of sardines 2Xweek along with Salmon Oil daily.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:39 PM
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Lots of people have found the "high end" foods to be too rich for their dogs. Have you tried a food like Proplan or Eukanuba?

I'd also try simply reducing the amount of food you're feeding, too - like Rosemary suggested, the symptoms you describe are very commonly described by simple overfeeding - all of those foods are very high in calories and can commonly cause diarrhea when too much is fed.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:19 PM
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I would agree that you may try just cutting back on the amounts of feed. The only time other than overfeeding a young adult and was getting normal poop and finishing off with soft poo is when my boy has much excitement going on , like free running in a new place and all the new scents.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:24 PM
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My Boy Hoss has used Earthborn Lamb since he was a puppy.
He is a healthy male with no medical issues at this time.
Last month I switched over to Purina Pro Plan Focus Adult....Chicken......
I changed for no other reason than the support of Pro Plan users within this forum.
Hoss loves Pro Plan Focus ..............shoot I now use it for training treats ......he reacts to it like a high value treat ...st least currently.
We just open our second large bag................
As far as the poop report for Hoss..........with earthborne .....it was solid but much softer and lighter in color.
On Pro plan ...it appears to be more solid and darker in color..........either way it took 3 weeks to switch him over ...I was thinking he might react to the Pro Plan change.......but he never did........easy peazy!!!
I tend to keep Hoss on his Pro Kibble.........or chicken breast for treats to stuff in his Kong.
I find when I give him other treats and bones........that's when things appear runny. Ugg.......
Hoss and I are Pro Plan Focus supporters!!!!
Nothing like a nice solid poo!!!!

Hoss
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Lots of people have found the "high end" foods to be too rich for their dogs. Have you tried a food like Proplan or Eukanuba?

I'd also try simply reducing the amount of food you're feeding, too - like Rosemary suggested, the symptoms you describe are very commonly described by simple overfeeding - all of those foods are very high in calories and can commonly cause diarrhea when too much is fed.
I know my dogs frequently had issues with the "super premium" foods, and all seem(ed) to do better on "middle of the road" brands like Science Diet, Iams, BilJac (kibble, not frozen) and ProPlan.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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If we don't mix with pate, he simply won't eat.

He often turns his nose up at meals, and frequently chooses to go hungry instead of eating. Many mornings, I'm trying to spoon feed him just to whet his appetite and get him to eat something! On average, he'll have 2-4 cups of dry kibble and 1/2 to 1 full can of pate, per day. It's often a chore to get him to eat. His vet is happy with his weight and he doesn't seem sick, he's just never had a voracious appetite like a typical dog.

The Earthborn Holistics is 31% protein, 13% fat, 4% fiber.

The only time we've had success with consistently formed poop was when he was briefly on a prescription Science Diet low fat kibble, and it's basically just fluff - rice and animal byproduct. He was eating 8+ cups of it a day just to get his nutrients!

For treats, he gets 1 greenie per day and a few Buckley branded treats (also grain free). We feed treats generally sparingly, as he has such a sensitive digestion.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobegal View Post
what is the protein percentage. My dogs do not do well on high protein. I do not go above 26% if I do they get exactly what you have described. Currently feeding Fromm Salmon ALA Veg. Supplement 1/2 can of sardines 2Xweek along with Salmon Oil daily.
His current food is 31% protein. We feed Fromm pate canned food, will have to check out their kibbles. We suspect that he may have a fish sensitivity. When he was a puppy, he was on Orijen which includes fish as an ingredient and he received fish treats to help his coat. Once we completely cut out fish proteins and oils, we did see a significant but not total improvement in his digestion. We messed up once after cutting it out entirely, and fed one serving of canned pate that had salmon in it. Within 2 hours he had explosive diarrhea and vomiting
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
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I know my dogs frequently had issues with the "super premium" foods, and all seem(ed) to do better on "middle of the road" brands like Science Diet, Iams, BilJac (kibble, not frozen) and ProPlan.
Yeah... McCoy was on Orijen and/or Acana for several years. Never a problem, but I know of several dogs that had difficulty with the richness and lack of filler.

McCoy spent his 1st 14 months on Eukauba Large Breed Puppy/ This was at the recommendation of his breeder. He did totally great on it. Plus... It is so much cheaper and the LBP is still a 4 star kibble.

Edit to say: He recently transitioned to Purina Pro Plan Savor (salmon and rice).

Easy... Very firm stools. Coat and skin still great.

John
Portland OR

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermanWI View Post
If we don't mix with pate, he simply won't eat.

He often turns his nose up at meals, and frequently chooses to go hungry instead of eating. Many mornings, I'm trying to spoon feed him just to whet his appetite and get him to eat something! On average, he'll have 2-4 cups of dry kibble and 1/2 to 1 full can of pate, per day. It's often a chore to get him to eat. His vet is happy with his weight and he doesn't seem sick, he's just never had a voracious appetite like a typical dog.

The Earthborn Holistics is 31% protein, 13% fat, 4% fiber.

The only time we've had success with consistently formed poop was when he was briefly on a prescription Science Diet low fat kibble, and it's basically just fluff - rice and animal byproduct. He was eating 8+ cups of it a day just to get his nutrients!

For treats, he gets 1 greenie per day and a few Buckley branded treats (also grain free). We feed treats generally sparingly, as he has such a sensitive digestion.
There are quite a few threads on here about picky eaters...like many others, I just wouldn't play that game with my dog. If he won't eat, I'd pick up the food after about 15 minutes and let him try again next meal. Is he intact? Healthy dogs won't starve themselves, and he's trained you to cater to him If he's had a good, thorough work up (bloodwork, etc) and there isn't anything wrong, I would stop with the toppers, with the hand feeding, the coaxing...he needs to learn to eat what he's given.

Quote:
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His current food is 31% protein. We feed Fromm pate canned food, will have to check out their kibbles. We suspect that he may have a fish sensitivity. When he was a puppy, he was on Orijen which includes fish as an ingredient and he received fish treats to help his coat. Once we completely cut out fish proteins and oils, we did see a significant but not total improvement in his digestion. We messed up once after cutting it out entirely, and fed one serving of canned pate that had salmon in it. Within 2 hours he had explosive diarrhea and vomiting
True food sensitivities and allergies in dogs are actually quite rare, but it's possible. You might try something like Proplan 30/20, a chicken based food.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:26 PM
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I don't play that game, either. Assuming the dog is healthy, I go on "eat what you're given or go hungry".


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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 04:17 AM
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In Hoss’s earlier days I was placing different things on his food to entice him to eat.
My vet told me to knock it off ...she explained that just like little kids ...as a treat you give the chocolate milk....then guess what they start turning their nose at regular milk and want the chocolate milk all the time. My response was .....he won’t eat so how do I get out out this tradition of adding to his food? She explained to just stop it......put food down.......15-20 minutes......if dog does not eat ...pick up the food.
She told me a healthy dog could go without food for 3 days as long as they were hydrated......but she assured me ......it won’t take that long....he will eat ......
So I did it.....I stopped ........the first day .......he didn’t eat ......the second morning did not eat.....but by dinner time the second day...boom he ate! Yep it was hard love but totally worth it.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 07:16 PM
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 02:04 PM
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I had a picky GSD when I was a kid that learned how to play that game. We learned how to play "eat what I give you or eat air" back. It's how I was raised... you eat what your parents put on your plate or you go hungry! My dog is a not a big fan of bison kibbles but we feed a rotation of things and sometimes he tries turning his nose up at the bison. He's learned pretty quickly that I don't cater and that if I lose my patience I'm picking the food bowl up and it's not coming back until the next mealtime! Every once in a while he'll still try to be picky at breakfast if we're on bison that day and by dinner he's starving and eats without complaint and we're good until we rotate the bison out again.

Additionally... how much does your dog exercise, by chance? 4 cups and a full can of pate is more than my dog eats- and please understand that we are also on a high protein, high calorie rotation. My dog is 5 and depending on exactly what we're feeding eats 3-4 cups of food per day and that's it. He's also walked 5 miles daily due to him being at my job with me, plus I run him hard (top speeds) for about 30 mins twice a day, plus he plays with my roommates' dogs, plus we train hard every day, which is a lot of exercise which is why we feed the high calorie, high protein foods because otherwise he's a walking skeleton from all the calories he burns. He's just at 80lbs and has seriously bulked up since he started running again, before he was at about 76lbs. So about the same size as your 2yo boy. If he's not exercising so much, it's very possible your dog isn't super interested in eating because he's already pretty full and knows he doesn't need more. Some dogs are just really good at regulating themselves.

I'd try feeding him a half cup less of kibble and change nothing else, and see where you can go from there. It's very likely that his weight won't worsen if he's not exercising hard like my dog is.
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