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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Ace's Skin Issues Return

Ever since Ace was a wee little pup, I have been battling all sorts of skin issues. Neither vet we have been to has been able to diagnose it, but they have done skin scraps that say its bacterial AND fungal. The last time we had him on like a 3 week multidose of antibiotics, paired with medicated shampoos and medicated sprays. Those bumps went away.


Now its back, different type and I just don't have the money at the moment to keep playing this vet game. The areas have localized on his chin, which at first I just thought was acne. So I started cleaning his stainless steel bowl twice a day, but no success. So in the past week I have been using Veterinary Formula Clinical Care Antiseptic and Antifungal Spray, and am finally seeing small improvements. Now the zit like areas have popped (not by me!), and are not filled with puss as expected, but blood.

This weekend I went to trim his nails, and noticed the same kinds of sores on the sides of his pads, on about 3 paws. I spoke with my breeder, and we agreed to try the spray on all sores twice a day, and I just purchased Zesty Paws Salmon Oil to try in his food. So that is my next course of action. He's currently eating Purina ProPlan Savor in Beef flavor, but I know real food allergies are rare.

Here's the poor guy's chin, luckily already looking better after a few days of spray, but still. I feel horrible.


Here is the kind of sores by his pads.



Has anyone else dealt with this? I'm also noticing super small bumps under his coat, and its not very shiny. Any recommendations for what to daily wipe him down with that will help with the coat? I know washing a doberman too often isnt recommended. What can I clean him with to make him smell fresh and feel fresh? Just using the puppy wipes isn't helping very much.

I'm not going to lie, his skin makes me feel like a really bad dog mom, but this has been a ongoing battle, and it CHANGES its look every single time! We get one thing fixed, and then the next shows up.

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:17 AM
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It sounds to me like you are a very good mum. This takes so much patience to get to the root of the problem. In addition to all you have done, have they checked for staph?

You may have to resort to an allergy test. Blood work is sent in to a lab. The one I used is Spectrum in Colorado. The results will pinpoint exactly what he is allergic too.

Sorry you and Ace are going through this. It is not fun.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
It sounds to me like you are a very good mum. This takes so much patience to get to the root of the problem. In addition to all you have done, have they checked for staph?

You may have to resort to an allergy test. Blood work is sent in to a lab. The one I used is Spectrum in Colorado. The results will pinpoint exactly what he is allergic too.

Sorry you and Ace are going through this. It is not fun.
Do you remember about how much that cost you? I am quite tight with money because life decided to hit all at once (finishing school without aid, no longer allowed overtime at work, bills increased, etc etc), and really don't have much wiggle room, but I'd love to know what it is that bothers him so much!

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:51 AM
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I'm assuming that at some point they did an antibiotic sensitivity to the infections?? If he has a resistant bacteria lurking around, just going underground when you think it's "cured", throwing non-specific antibiotics at him may not do the trick. He may need to be on antibiotics for a longer period of time...6 weeks or more. If an antibiotic isn't given for a long enough time period, it just encourages the development of chronic infections with a resistant bacteria.

I know the vet trips get expensive fast, but a one-time consult with a dermatologist specialist might help you figure out if something truly weird is going on.

It sounds like you've already covered that ground, but just in case, I thought I'd mention it. I'm probably just repeating what you've already tried.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:57 AM
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Could the Chin and feet bumps be aggravated by some sort of chew toy or bone?
These usually will pass with age but in the meantime just spraying and wiping him and keeping his stuff extra clean is the most economical way minimize the outbreaks.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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I'm assuming that at some point they did an antibiotic sensitivity to the infections?? If he has a resistant bacteria lurking around, just going underground when you think it's "cured", throwing non-specific antibiotics at him may not do the trick. He may need to be on antibiotics for a longer period of time...6 weeks or more. If an antibiotic isn't given for a long enough time period, it just encourages the development of chronic infections with a resistant bacteria.

I know the vet trips get expensive fast, but a one-time consult with a dermatologist specialist might help you figure out if something truly weird is going on.

It sounds like you've already covered that ground, but just in case, I thought I'd mention it. I'm probably just repeating what you've already tried.
I honestly can't remember what the first vet did. We had a couple of short antiobiotic treatments. The new/current vet did a skin scrap, but was totally confused on what it could be. They gave him like 3-4wks of antibiotics, medicated shampoos and wipes and then it all cleared up. Those spots were on his sides, and those are gone. They were like scaly/dry skin that would crack/bleed. These don't seem to look the same. These all look like zits, but are filled with blood, no puss.

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Could the Chin and feet bumps be aggravated by some sort of chew toy or bone?
These usually will pass with age but in the meantime just spraying and wiping him and keeping his stuff extra clean is the most economical way minimize the outbreaks.
I was wondering that but he doesn't really play with any of the same toys often. Nothing toy wise I can think of that would cause this.


It almost seems relevant to Demodex upon doing some reading. Since its on the chin/feet. "In mild cases, pet owners may notice a few dry, irritated, hairless lesions. These often occur on the face or feet and may or may not be itchy"


Last edited by Chesa; 08-05-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:15 AM
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Years past I rescued a Bracco Italiano, imported here from Europe, but owners were fed up with his many allergies, so I took him on. I have never had such a challenge. We tried everything,
antibiotics, steroids, changes of food at a terrible expense over the year. Finally, we gave in to the blood work by Spectrum. At that time, 8 yrs ago, it was $300. A lot of money, but not as much as I was putting out every month. I should have done it sooner. It would have saved so much. It not only pinpointed food, but weeds, dust, cats, etc. The poor dog was such a mess and it turned out that all food and supplements had everything he was allergic to. This dog had sores between his toes. Ears always infected. Flews would swell up so he could hardly shut his mouth. Looked like hornet bites on his muzzle. Saliva dripping everywhere. Eyes bloodshot. Scary and he looked like a Hound from Baskerville.
By following the list of allergens we did resolve everything and he became a normal dog. Small things, like forgetting and sharing a bit of your cookie with him, which contained eggs and he was very allergic to eggs we discovered, would set him back to the beginning.
Good luck and hoping like everything you can get to the bottom of it.

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh

Last edited by Cressrb; 08-05-2019 at 10:19 AM.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 12:36 PM
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Not much to add, except that I never had much luck with stainless steel bowls, and I have to use ceramic. Even stainless steel would cause issues for my dogs. Switching to ceramic helped with chin issues here. Not sure what's up with the feet, though...


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 12:37 PM
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Chesa , the bumps under Aces chin sure look like what’s Kasia had a long time ago , I think what Cressrb asked staff , maybe ? Will try and look back threw Kasias records and see what I find , it will take a little time for me to find it .

Ace is sure a good looking boy give him a good rub for uncle Ken
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
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Not much to add, except that I never had much luck with stainless steel bowls, and I have to use ceramic. Even stainless steel would cause issues for my dogs. Switching to ceramic helped with chin issues here. Not sure what's up with the feet, though...
Yes... I use only ceramic bowls for both water and feeding. The water bowl is washed daily and the feed bowl is thoroughly cleaned after every meal. That chin sure looks like feed/water bowl related acne to me.

Possibly Staph. Certain Staph strains are antibiotic resistant. I should know, In 1994, I contracted a Staph infection that went systemic almost immediately.I was in ICU with hours of noticeable symptoms. The only thing that cured me was a very specific antibiotic dedicated to the particular strain of the bacterial infection that I had.

BTW. McCoy's bowls are vintage McCoy USA Ceramics bowls. LOL

I hope this gets figured out soon

John
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 02:26 PM
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John - scary stuff there you went through. LOL on the McCoy bowls - only you.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Ugggggghhhhh I just spent too much money on a very fancy raised wooden dog bowl stand that came with these stainless steel bowls. Ace wasnt eating when the food was ground level. Bought this stand and now hes eating all in one sitting, and happy about it! I will see if I can find anything ceramic to fit in this stand.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 04:09 PM
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Don't get rid of the stainless steel until you know for sure that is the cause. I vary between stainless (for travel and camping) and the expensive crock type. I have broken way too many of those
trying to take them with when traveling.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 04:55 PM
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Take one of the stainless steel bowls along and find a ceramic bowl that will fit in it--that's the easiest thing to do--check the dollar store--they often have ceramic bowls in many sizes that a really cheap.

The chin stuff looks just like all of the chin acne--sometimes they are filled with blood and hair--and will mostly heal from the kind of thing you are using on them now.

Try using a weak solution of plain old white vinegar thinned down with water--put it in a spray bottle and spray any areas on his body that seem to have any bumps--if you do bathe him use cold water and a chlorhexadine based shampoo (either 2% or 4% chlorhexadine). Rinse with lots of water--do not scrub the dog--gently with your finger tips work the shampoo into the coat in the direction of the lay of the coat. Rinse, take longer to rinse the dog than you did to wash the dog and when you think you are all done mix a gallon of cold water with a cup of white vinegar and rinse one more time with that.

When he dries he'll stop smelling like a salad. I give fish oil to all dogs older thn 6 months. Other things good for skin and coat if the dog isn't allergic to them are eggs, cottage cheese and yogurt--I use low fat for those.

Good luck--I've just lost two big long informational posts to the empty places in the internet and am very irked--so I'll send this before my stupid ISP can send it for me...

dobebug
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Take one of the stainless steel bowls along and find a ceramic bowl that will fit in it--that's the easiest thing to do--check the dollar store--they often have ceramic bowls in many sizes that a really cheap.

The chin stuff looks just like all of the chin acne--sometimes they are filled with blood and hair--and will mostly heal from the kind of thing you are using on them now.

Try using a weak solution of plain old white vinegar thinned down with water--put it in a spray bottle and spray any areas on his body that seem to have any bumps--if you do bathe him use cold water and a chlorhexadine based shampoo (either 2% or 4% chlorhexadine). Rinse with lots of water--do not scrub the dog--gently with your finger tips work the shampoo into the coat in the direction of the lay of the coat. Rinse, take longer to rinse the dog than you did to wash the dog and when you think you are all done mix a gallon of cold water with a cup of white vinegar and rinse one more time with that.

When he dries he'll stop smelling like a salad. I give fish oil to all dogs older thn 6 months. Other things good for skin and coat if the dog isn't allergic to them are eggs, cottage cheese and yogurt--I use low fat for those.

Good luck--I've just lost two big long informational posts to the empty places in the internet and am very irked--so I'll send this before my stupid ISP can send it for me...

dobebug
Wow, cermaic in the stainless.... dobebug you are a wealth of clever knowledge, solving all my problems!! I will do just that.

How much white vinegar to water would you add? I've never made that concoction, so I just want to be sure!

Thank you greatly!

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:02 AM
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Chesa, sorry you are going through this with Ace.

I have had great results with TresaDerm, a wide spectrum antibiotic/antifungal for inflammed and post surgical area spots on both Spock and Lanah- ones they would pick on and not leave alone. Previous posts:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ml#post4051853

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ml#post4063725

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ck-woe-me.html

I apply two times/day on inflammed areas with kids Q-tips (XL tip size), after cleansing with Hibiclens (Walgreens or Amazon). Then I would apply Sulphatiazol sulpur powder on top to dry out. For the really bad spots, which dogs wouldn't leave alone, have them wear donut collar for at least two hours after application. (or for two days if desired) Amazingly, spots healed and dogs would leave alone after 2-days of treatments.


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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 12:39 PM
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I have a male blue Doberman with little bumps I’ve been using organic coconut oil and seems to be working put a tablespoon in is food and rub his coat with it makes it shine and smells good also good luck my boy Apollo is 12
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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So last week I started using (Zesty Paws) Salmon Oil as a last ditch, cheap effort while quoting allergy testing at local vets.

In just 3 days, his coat went from dull and dirty feeling to shiny, silky smooth!! Its been about a week now, and even his skin issues (acne, weird bumps) are starting to get smaller and I think a few have already disappeared! He's already growing hair back on his chin!

I'm feeling very happy about this because I have never felt his coat as nice as this. I read through the Zesty Paws allergy bites reviews, and people were saying they used those as an alternative to Apoquel prescription the vets have given. So I just added that in also, to see if I can get a real handle on his skin stuff, without breaking the bank.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chesa View Post
Wow, cermaic in the stainless.... dobebug you are a wealth of clever knowledge, solving all my problems!! I will do just that.

How much white vinegar to water would you add? I've never made that concoction, so I just want to be sure!

Thank you greatly!
Chesa,

Sorry, slow to get back to the DT stuff--life interfering with what's really important--the dogs.

I use one to one and a half cups of vinegar to a gallon or so of water. Also you can put a mixture like that in a spray bottle and if the dog has itchy spots that he's licking or chewing spray those areas with them mixture--the nice thing about it is that it's cheap and actually helps itches and areas with mild inflamations. Dog skin should be on the acidic side of the range.

You know--I have given all my dogs fish oil since way back in the late '60's a vet said that fish oil and Vitamin E really help to produce good skin and good coats. Later a cardiologist said the fish oil won't do anything to prevent cardiac problems but if the dog has them it does help them from getting worse--and he pointed out that the same combinations works really well for promoting healthy skin and good coats.

dobebug
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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In case the chin pustules come back, we had the exact same issue with my boy.

A switch to ceramic bowls (run through the dishwasher every week as well), plus generic stridex pads (the kind you'd use for human acne) swiped around the chin once a day was a lifesaver for these bumps.
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