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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Ace's Skin Issues Return

Ever since Ace was a wee little pup, I have been battling all sorts of skin issues. Neither vet we have been to has been able to diagnose it, but they have done skin scraps that say its bacterial AND fungal. The last time we had him on like a 3 week multidose of antibiotics, paired with medicated shampoos and medicated sprays. Those bumps went away.


Now its back, different type and I just don't have the money at the moment to keep playing this vet game. The areas have localized on his chin, which at first I just thought was acne. So I started cleaning his stainless steel bowl twice a day, but no success. So in the past week I have been using Veterinary Formula Clinical Care Antiseptic and Antifungal Spray, and am finally seeing small improvements. Now the zit like areas have popped (not by me!), and are not filled with puss as expected, but blood.

This weekend I went to trim his nails, and noticed the same kinds of sores on the sides of his pads, on about 3 paws. I spoke with my breeder, and we agreed to try the spray on all sores twice a day, and I just purchased Zesty Paws Salmon Oil to try in his food. So that is my next course of action. He's currently eating Purina ProPlan Savor in Beef flavor, but I know real food allergies are rare.

Here's the poor guy's chin, luckily already looking better after a few days of spray, but still. I feel horrible.


Here is the kind of sores by his pads.



Has anyone else dealt with this? I'm also noticing super small bumps under his coat, and its not very shiny. Any recommendations for what to daily wipe him down with that will help with the coat? I know washing a doberman too often isnt recommended. What can I clean him with to make him smell fresh and feel fresh? Just using the puppy wipes isn't helping very much.

I'm not going to lie, his skin makes me feel like a really bad dog mom, but this has been a ongoing battle, and it CHANGES its look every single time! We get one thing fixed, and then the next shows up.

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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:17 AM
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It sounds to me like you are a very good mum. This takes so much patience to get to the root of the problem. In addition to all you have done, have they checked for staph?

You may have to resort to an allergy test. Blood work is sent in to a lab. The one I used is Spectrum in Colorado. The results will pinpoint exactly what he is allergic too.

Sorry you and Ace are going through this. It is not fun.

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
It sounds to me like you are a very good mum. This takes so much patience to get to the root of the problem. In addition to all you have done, have they checked for staph?

You may have to resort to an allergy test. Blood work is sent in to a lab. The one I used is Spectrum in Colorado. The results will pinpoint exactly what he is allergic too.

Sorry you and Ace are going through this. It is not fun.
Do you remember about how much that cost you? I am quite tight with money because life decided to hit all at once (finishing school without aid, no longer allowed overtime at work, bills increased, etc etc), and really don't have much wiggle room, but I'd love to know what it is that bothers him so much!

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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:51 AM
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I'm assuming that at some point they did an antibiotic sensitivity to the infections?? If he has a resistant bacteria lurking around, just going underground when you think it's "cured", throwing non-specific antibiotics at him may not do the trick. He may need to be on antibiotics for a longer period of time...6 weeks or more. If an antibiotic isn't given for a long enough time period, it just encourages the development of chronic infections with a resistant bacteria.

I know the vet trips get expensive fast, but a one-time consult with a dermatologist specialist might help you figure out if something truly weird is going on.

It sounds like you've already covered that ground, but just in case, I thought I'd mention it. I'm probably just repeating what you've already tried.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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Could the Chin and feet bumps be aggravated by some sort of chew toy or bone?
These usually will pass with age but in the meantime just spraying and wiping him and keeping his stuff extra clean is the most economical way minimize the outbreaks.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm assuming that at some point they did an antibiotic sensitivity to the infections?? If he has a resistant bacteria lurking around, just going underground when you think it's "cured", throwing non-specific antibiotics at him may not do the trick. He may need to be on antibiotics for a longer period of time...6 weeks or more. If an antibiotic isn't given for a long enough time period, it just encourages the development of chronic infections with a resistant bacteria.

I know the vet trips get expensive fast, but a one-time consult with a dermatologist specialist might help you figure out if something truly weird is going on.

It sounds like you've already covered that ground, but just in case, I thought I'd mention it. I'm probably just repeating what you've already tried.
I honestly can't remember what the first vet did. We had a couple of short antiobiotic treatments. The new/current vet did a skin scrap, but was totally confused on what it could be. They gave him like 3-4wks of antibiotics, medicated shampoos and wipes and then it all cleared up. Those spots were on his sides, and those are gone. They were like scaly/dry skin that would crack/bleed. These don't seem to look the same. These all look like zits, but are filled with blood, no puss.

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Could the Chin and feet bumps be aggravated by some sort of chew toy or bone?
These usually will pass with age but in the meantime just spraying and wiping him and keeping his stuff extra clean is the most economical way minimize the outbreaks.
I was wondering that but he doesn't really play with any of the same toys often. Nothing toy wise I can think of that would cause this.


It almost seems relevant to Demodex upon doing some reading. Since its on the chin/feet. "In mild cases, pet owners may notice a few dry, irritated, hairless lesions. These often occur on the face or feet and may or may not be itchy"


Last edited by Chesa; 08-05-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 11:15 AM
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Years past I rescued a Bracco Italiano, imported here from Europe, but owners were fed up with his many allergies, so I took him on. I have never had such a challenge. We tried everything,
antibiotics, steroids, changes of food at a terrible expense over the year. Finally, we gave in to the blood work by Spectrum. At that time, 8 yrs ago, it was $300. A lot of money, but not as much as I was putting out every month. I should have done it sooner. It would have saved so much. It not only pinpointed food, but weeds, dust, cats, etc. The poor dog was such a mess and it turned out that all food and supplements had everything he was allergic to. This dog had sores between his toes. Ears always infected. Flews would swell up so he could hardly shut his mouth. Looked like hornet bites on his muzzle. Saliva dripping everywhere. Eyes bloodshot. Scary and he looked like a Hound from Baskerville.
By following the list of allergens we did resolve everything and he became a normal dog. Small things, like forgetting and sharing a bit of your cookie with him, which contained eggs and he was very allergic to eggs we discovered, would set him back to the beginning.
Good luck and hoping like everything you can get to the bottom of it.
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Last edited by Cressrb; 08-05-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 01:36 PM
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Not much to add, except that I never had much luck with stainless steel bowls, and I have to use ceramic. Even stainless steel would cause issues for my dogs. Switching to ceramic helped with chin issues here. Not sure what's up with the feet, though...


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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 01:37 PM
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Chesa , the bumps under Aces chin sure look like what’s Kasia had a long time ago , I think what Cressrb asked staff , maybe ? Will try and look back threw Kasias records and see what I find , it will take a little time for me to find it .

Ace is sure a good looking boy give him a good rub for uncle Ken
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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Not much to add, except that I never had much luck with stainless steel bowls, and I have to use ceramic. Even stainless steel would cause issues for my dogs. Switching to ceramic helped with chin issues here. Not sure what's up with the feet, though...
Yes... I use only ceramic bowls for both water and feeding. The water bowl is washed daily and the feed bowl is thoroughly cleaned after every meal. That chin sure looks like feed/water bowl related acne to me.

Possibly Staph. Certain Staph strains are antibiotic resistant. I should know, In 1994, I contracted a Staph infection that went systemic almost immediately.I was in ICU with hours of noticeable symptoms. The only thing that cured me was a very specific antibiotic dedicated to the particular strain of the bacterial infection that I had.

BTW. McCoy's bowls are vintage McCoy USA Ceramics bowls. LOL

I hope this gets figured out soon

John
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 03:26 PM
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John - scary stuff there you went through. LOL on the McCoy bowls - only you.

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Ugggggghhhhh I just spent too much money on a very fancy raised wooden dog bowl stand that came with these stainless steel bowls. Ace wasnt eating when the food was ground level. Bought this stand and now hes eating all in one sitting, and happy about it! I will see if I can find anything ceramic to fit in this stand.

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 05:09 PM
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Don't get rid of the stainless steel until you know for sure that is the cause. I vary between stainless (for travel and camping) and the expensive crock type. I have broken way too many of those
trying to take them with when traveling.

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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 05:55 PM
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Take one of the stainless steel bowls along and find a ceramic bowl that will fit in it--that's the easiest thing to do--check the dollar store--they often have ceramic bowls in many sizes that a really cheap.

The chin stuff looks just like all of the chin acne--sometimes they are filled with blood and hair--and will mostly heal from the kind of thing you are using on them now.

Try using a weak solution of plain old white vinegar thinned down with water--put it in a spray bottle and spray any areas on his body that seem to have any bumps--if you do bathe him use cold water and a chlorhexadine based shampoo (either 2% or 4% chlorhexadine). Rinse with lots of water--do not scrub the dog--gently with your finger tips work the shampoo into the coat in the direction of the lay of the coat. Rinse, take longer to rinse the dog than you did to wash the dog and when you think you are all done mix a gallon of cold water with a cup of white vinegar and rinse one more time with that.

When he dries he'll stop smelling like a salad. I give fish oil to all dogs older thn 6 months. Other things good for skin and coat if the dog isn't allergic to them are eggs, cottage cheese and yogurt--I use low fat for those.

Good luck--I've just lost two big long informational posts to the empty places in the internet and am very irked--so I'll send this before my stupid ISP can send it for me...

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Take one of the stainless steel bowls along and find a ceramic bowl that will fit in it--that's the easiest thing to do--check the dollar store--they often have ceramic bowls in many sizes that a really cheap.

The chin stuff looks just like all of the chin acne--sometimes they are filled with blood and hair--and will mostly heal from the kind of thing you are using on them now.

Try using a weak solution of plain old white vinegar thinned down with water--put it in a spray bottle and spray any areas on his body that seem to have any bumps--if you do bathe him use cold water and a chlorhexadine based shampoo (either 2% or 4% chlorhexadine). Rinse with lots of water--do not scrub the dog--gently with your finger tips work the shampoo into the coat in the direction of the lay of the coat. Rinse, take longer to rinse the dog than you did to wash the dog and when you think you are all done mix a gallon of cold water with a cup of white vinegar and rinse one more time with that.

When he dries he'll stop smelling like a salad. I give fish oil to all dogs older thn 6 months. Other things good for skin and coat if the dog isn't allergic to them are eggs, cottage cheese and yogurt--I use low fat for those.

Good luck--I've just lost two big long informational posts to the empty places in the internet and am very irked--so I'll send this before my stupid ISP can send it for me...

dobebug
Wow, cermaic in the stainless.... dobebug you are a wealth of clever knowledge, solving all my problems!! I will do just that.

How much white vinegar to water would you add? I've never made that concoction, so I just want to be sure!

Thank you greatly!

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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 09:02 AM
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Chesa, sorry you are going through this with Ace.

I have had great results with TresaDerm, a wide spectrum antibiotic/antifungal for inflammed and post surgical area spots on both Spock and Lanah- ones they would pick on and not leave alone. Previous posts:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ml#post4051853

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ml#post4063725

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ck-woe-me.html

I apply two times/day on inflammed areas with kids Q-tips (XL tip size), after cleansing with Hibiclens (Walgreens or Amazon). Then I would apply Sulphatiazol sulpur powder on top to dry out. For the really bad spots, which dogs wouldn't leave alone, have them wear donut collar for at least two hours after application. (or for two days if desired) Amazingly, spots healed and dogs would leave alone after 2-days of treatments.


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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 01:39 PM
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I have a male blue Doberman with little bumps I’ve been using organic coconut oil and seems to be working put a tablespoon in is food and rub his coat with it makes it shine and smells good also good luck my boy Apollo is 12
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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So last week I started using (Zesty Paws) Salmon Oil as a last ditch, cheap effort while quoting allergy testing at local vets.

In just 3 days, his coat went from dull and dirty feeling to shiny, silky smooth!! Its been about a week now, and even his skin issues (acne, weird bumps) are starting to get smaller and I think a few have already disappeared! He's already growing hair back on his chin!

I'm feeling very happy about this because I have never felt his coat as nice as this. I read through the Zesty Paws allergy bites reviews, and people were saying they used those as an alternative to Apoquel prescription the vets have given. So I just added that in also, to see if I can get a real handle on his skin stuff, without breaking the bank.

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 04:13 PM
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Wow, cermaic in the stainless.... dobebug you are a wealth of clever knowledge, solving all my problems!! I will do just that.

How much white vinegar to water would you add? I've never made that concoction, so I just want to be sure!

Thank you greatly!
Chesa,

Sorry, slow to get back to the DT stuff--life interfering with what's really important--the dogs.

I use one to one and a half cups of vinegar to a gallon or so of water. Also you can put a mixture like that in a spray bottle and if the dog has itchy spots that he's licking or chewing spray those areas with them mixture--the nice thing about it is that it's cheap and actually helps itches and areas with mild inflamations. Dog skin should be on the acidic side of the range.

You know--I have given all my dogs fish oil since way back in the late '60's a vet said that fish oil and Vitamin E really help to produce good skin and good coats. Later a cardiologist said the fish oil won't do anything to prevent cardiac problems but if the dog has them it does help them from getting worse--and he pointed out that the same combinations works really well for promoting healthy skin and good coats.

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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 04:32 PM
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In case the chin pustules come back, we had the exact same issue with my boy.

A switch to ceramic bowls (run through the dishwasher every week as well), plus generic stridex pads (the kind you'd use for human acne) swiped around the chin once a day was a lifesaver for these bumps.
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, not so great update. Emergency vet visit scheduled for Ace tonight.


I have tried everything recommended. Stridex Acne Wipes, Coconut oil, Salmon Oil, Allergy Bites, washing his bowls every day, medicated shampoo, everything except for ceramic bowls. Everything had an initial positive result, and then turned worse. It's all gotten way worse.

In the past week, it has turned into his chin covered entirely with open sores constantly bleeding. As he eats, it rubs the scabs off and bleeds again. Puts his chin in your lap? Small bloody marks left after he walks away. The inside of his pads have small blister like sores, and the way he runs on our concrete sidewalk, rips them open constantly. Bloody paw prints through the house often. And his tail. His tail makes me want to cry. The tip of his tail is now infected. I guess the sores were hiding underneath his fur, and they turned into blisterly, bloody sores. He will occasionally reach back and scratch it in the last two days, I am sure it itches, but then it bleeds everywhere. Constantly oozing an infected looking liquid. This has only been a few days. The hair on the end of his tail is starting to fall out. It was a really botched dock job anyway, but now it just looks horrible. He gets extremely uncomfortable if you touch his tail, so I imagine its hurting.

I have been trying to care for him at home. I put bactroban on the sores, and they begin to heal. Then another will pop up right beside it. I get one paw healed and not bleeding, and then the other side of the pad starts to blister/bleed. As soon as I saw what looked like an infection, I called and schedule a vet appointment. He definitely needs more antibiotics, and this time we are getting the Spectrum SPOT allergy testing done, as Cressrb recommended.

This is a totally new vet also. Great reviews, especially on the allergy front. My last vet hospital was highly rated, but I saw 3 out of 5 of their Vets, and every single one hesitated around Ace like they were scared of him. One even jumped back when he walked up to her, (he loves people, doesn't understand personal space). As much as I understand he may look intimidating, I need a vet who is going to touch him. Really get close and look into these sores. Not gaze from a distance and listen to my description. So hopefully better luck tonight.

Honestly I am sad, overwhelmed and feeling down. Ace is happy as ever, and doesn't seem unhealthy otherwise. He still runs and plays as hard, and loves all over me. But I just feel like I am failing him. Not to get sappy here, but he is the best dog I have ever owned, and I already know dogs to come are not going to be able to top him. He's perfect (minus a little personal space issues). He's obedient, his recall is wonderful, he is so loving and forgiving. I just want him to feel 100% also. All of our training classes at the kennel club have halted, because I can't begin to show him looking like this. The salmon oil brought the sheen back to his coat, but even on max dosage he still has heavy dandruff. Splotchy looking fur. Money is tight but I have my Embrace Pet Insurance, and opened up a CareCredit credit card. I will do what needs to be done to fix this. My heart is just hurting for the poor guy. I spoke with my breeder, and she's never seen skin issues this bad.

Unfortunately the majority of our driveway/yard is crushed concrete. We hope that putting real stone down in the next few months will help, considering that crushed concrete is pretty chemical-y. We've considered that being a trigger too, but unfortunately there is little we can do immediately. But who knows what this trigger is. Could be the grass. Could be dustmites, could be his food. I am eager to get the allergy testing results back to know for sure.


Last edited by Chesa; 09-17-2019 at 09:39 AM.
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:00 AM
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I'm sorry to hear this update. Skin issues in a dog are such a beast to ID and treat.
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:20 AM
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Poor Ace! I'm really sorry to hear it.

First, I'm glad you're finding a new vet if the others aren't comfortable around him. That's just silly if he's a nice, outgoing, friendly boy. And, even if he wasn't, he'd need a vet that could work with him. But since he is, there's no reason at all that his vets (AND their staff) shouldn't be comfortable around him.

Remind me - have you seen a board certified dermatologist yet? That might be the next step with this.

Have you reached out to his breeder? Has she seen any allergies like this in her dogs? Does she have any ideas?

Once you get the infection under control, it might be silly to think about but if he is sensitive to something environmentally on his skin, there are bodysuits for dogs that might help keep some of those allergens off him. I know someone that used one with decent success. Do they look at little odd? Sure, but the alternative is the bleeding wounds. Here is the one she had for her girl: https://k9topcoat.com/
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Poor Ace! I'm really sorry to hear it.

First, I'm glad you're finding a new vet if the others aren't comfortable around him. That's just silly if he's a nice, outgoing, friendly boy. And, even if he wasn't, he'd need a vet that could work with him. But since he is, there's no reason at all that his vets (AND their staff) shouldn't be comfortable around him.

Remind me - have you seen a board certified dermatologist yet? That might be the next step with this.

Have you reached out to his breeder? Has she seen any allergies like this in her dogs? Does she have any ideas?

Once you get the infection under control, it might be silly to think about but if he is sensitive to something environmentally on his skin, there are bodysuits for dogs that might help keep some of those allergens off him. I know someone that used one with decent success. Do they look at little odd? Sure, but the alternative is the bleeding wounds. Here is the one she had for her girl: https://k9topcoat.com/
I have not seen a dermatologist yet, I know specialists are a bit expensive, and I am really not working with much wiggle room this season. This vet we are seeing today has been recommended based off of his ability to treat allergy/skin issues though. I wanted to get Ace blood tested for all allergies also, and this doctor offers the test Cressrb mentioned. If we can't get it fixed here, my only option is a specialist as you recommended.

I did reach out to my breeder, and she hasn't seen anything like it. She said its the worse she's ever seen, and is adamant about keeping me informed. She had another dog with allergies that a simple treatment fixed, but we were not lucky with such a positive quick result, and now its still escalated. She's concerned, I am concerned, Ace is ... unbothered, lol. He's just extremely excited for our ride tonight.

I surely hope it doesn't need to come to a body suit, but I will do what I have to for the poor guy.

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesa View Post
I have not seen a dermatologist yet, I know specialists are a bit expensive, and I am really not working with much wiggle room this season. This vet we are seeing today has been recommended based off of his ability to treat allergy/skin issues though. I wanted to get Ace blood tested for all allergies also, and this doctor offers the test Cressrb mentioned. If we can't get it fixed here, my only option is a specialist as you recommended.

I did reach out to my breeder, and she hasn't seen anything like it. She said its the worse she's ever seen, and is adamant about keeping me informed. She had another dog with allergies that a simple treatment fixed, but we were not lucky with such a positive quick result, and now its still escalated. She's concerned, I am concerned, Ace is ... unbothered, lol. He's just extremely excited for our ride tonight.

I surely hope it doesn't need to come to a body suit, but I will do what I have to for the poor guy.
Sounds like you're on the right track - please let us all know how the visit goes tonight. Really hoping you get some new options here.


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