Perma Stays? Yes? No? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Perma Stays? Yes? No?

Hello Everyone. I wondered if anyone has any experience with ear implants? My girl is 20 months old. She was cropped and posted CONTINUALLY until 2 weeks ago. One ear will stand for a couple hours then down she goes. The other is beautiful. I've done everything the vet suggested. I've massaged both ears every chance I get. (Generally ends in a full body massage which she loves.) I've also given her a daily vitamin, joint pills, 500 mg of calcium and vitamin C each, salmon oil in her food. Nothing. She's so sweet, gives me no issues. But the eyes kill me. 20 months is long enough. I'm considering an implant. Please dont lecture me, I can get that at home. I fully realize this is a me problem. I can't stand a picture. Tv
Shelf, etc. unlevel. I'm sure there is a name for this. Besides anal. My husband swears that ear is thinner. I've spoke to the owner of Perma stay. I've met with a vet with experience doing this procedure. I'm sure the vet would give me recommendations if I ask. (And if i still might.) I want unbiased experience . Has anyone done this,? If so, thoughts? Would you do it again? Was it what you expected? Do you have regrets? Thank you for your time. Robin & Chloe. 🐕
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 06:10 AM
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I've never had it done, but it seems like every time someone gets them done and posts about it, the ears reject the implant.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 09:35 AM
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I have a girl with a particularily long show crop. You described her situation exactly. At 20 months I could not get one ear to stand and I did consider either a recrop or an ear stay. In frustration, I even contacted the breeder to tell I had done everything, nothing worked and I would probably have to discontinue showing her. It was so disappointing, plus I felt like a failure and had let the breeder down. She was nice enough to say she understood, but I could sense her disappointment.

After leaving the one ear flop for a week and resigned to the situation, I realized I could not live with it. She was too beautiful and I am too much of a perfectionist. I decided to stay with the posting no matter how long it took! So up went the ears, by now me a pro and Kiri a pro. I think she kinda enjoyed the fussing! Shows were coming up and I entered them. Took her too her handler (local) with one ear posted and told her to remove it just before going in the ring. This was 4 - 5 months later. She took the post down, and the ear stayed up and never flopped again. We had done it and Kiri went on to finish her Ch very quickly.

You situation may be different, but this is what it took for me. I just hope I never have to do that again. I feel your frustration for sure. Sounds like you are doing everything right. The advice everyone gave me, when I ask for it was, 'Just keep posting'. I really didn't like to hear that, but it was exactly what did the trick.

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:06 AM
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I agree with Falfenix--I've seen more failures with implants because of tissue rejection than successes.

I've been posting ears (for my puppies and other people and for breeds other than Dobermans as well) for years--since my first Dobe (1969) and I've also seen a lot of successes (including those on my own dogs) where one ear was up (sometimes for months and in one case more than a year) and one still wanted to flop. More than one of my own dogs has gone a conformation show with one ear posted, taken down just before the dogs class went in the ring and reposted as soon they were finished in the ring.

And the dog who had one ear that didn't stand until more than a year after his other ear was standing--the standing ear was up and solid (and this was another very long show crop) at 5 months--the other ear was still flopping and being posted until he was well over 18 months--I just kept posting and shortly before his 2nd birthday the ear stood.

I sure wouldn't give up on a 20 month old dog. I'd keep posting and I don't really like results of the implants. I'd stop giving added calcium--it can cause as many problems as it might help. Even the very worst of the commercial dog foods contains ample calcium and is balanced with phosphorous. If she loves massages, massage her--massaging ears generally doesn't do a thing for them even though there are a good many croppers who recommend that (sometimes instead of posting).

There are some other surgical techniques for getting a flop ear to stand--I don't know who originally cropped your pup but have you talked to them or asked the vet who does implants if he ever does other things like a tuck for one?

Good luck with this...

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:11 AM
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About 20 years ago - Our female hated her ears up and would paw at them - finally broke one down - I asked our vet about a implant - He brought up a good point - he said Ken - she would never be able to relax them - they would be up 100 % of the time - I thought about that and he was right - Ours always will let them down some or lay them back - what ever .

Good luck
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:23 AM
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@ dobebug...

"I've been posting ears (for my puppies and other people and for breeds other than Dobermans as well) for years--since my first Dobe (1969)"

Uh bug... Shouldn't that "6" be a "5". As in 1959. LOL!

John (with my STJ! hat on)
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 05:18 PM
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I struggled along with Copper's one ear until he was about 18 months old before it finally stood so traditional posting may still work. I gave him glucosamine as well.

I've personally known 3 dogs that had the ear tuck surgery and it was very successful. It is less invasive than something inserted into the ear. Can the vet not do the tuck surgery?

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for your responses AND being so nice! You gave me much to think about. I did speak to her breeder, she told me to continue posting and massages. The vet told me to add the additional vitamins. She's on Merrick dog food. She was on the thin side so I've been supplementing that with ground beef, carrots, potatoes, green beans, and corn. Her coat is beautiful and I smile just thinking about her eyes. Chloe turns 2 on 8/21. So I guess shes really 19 months. You've given me the mental boost I needed. I'm getting close to zero support on the home front regarding this.
Lots of "Leave her alone mom, your not perfect " or "Just let her live her life in peace mom". I've caught my husband whispering in her ear hes "sorry your mom is putting you through this". So you all helped more than you know. In closing, two questions. What is the tuck procedure? And, do you think I need to post both ears or just the one? I've been doing just one. Thanks again. I'll keep you "posted", lol.😂
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Hi. What is the tuck procedure? I've never heard of it. Thank you!
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:15 AM
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I will try to post a picture of a dog's "tuck" scars when I get home from work. In the meanwhile, I'm going to e one of my owners to see if she can come on and talk about it.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:36 AM
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There are several ear repair type procedures, but you MUST go to a Vet that is experienced and not someone trying it for the first time. There are very few of these Vets around, but if you ask around, you may find one. The oldest I know of is "the string", but some use tacs. Many years ago, I even now one that transplanted natural cartilage from naturally erect eared dogs that had been euthanized dogs at the pound. I am not familiar myself with the "tuck". The procedures are different depending on the Vet and the particular problem.

However, I would NEVER use plastic implants.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
About 20 years ago - Our female hated her ears up and would paw at them - finally broke one down - I asked our vet about a implant - He brought up a good point - he said Ken - she would never be able to relax them - they would be up 100 % of the time - I thought about that and he was right - Ours always will let them down some or lay them back - what ever .

Good luck

I personally would hate this! I love the airplane look.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:01 PM
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My breeder told me about this thread, MaryAndDobes.

Sammy had the same problem, one ear was perfect and the other one flopped. He was about 18 months old and I wanted his ear fixed. We took him back to see Dr. Staples the vet that cropped him. It was so long ago but I think Dr. Staples removed a tiny bit of skin next to his ear pulled it tight and the ear stood up right away, it was perfect. I think Sammy had three stitches on top of his head. Dr. Staples told me to leave his ear alone but if it flopped to post it. Its funny, back then when he was sleeping that ear would flop but as soon as I made a noise or called his name his ear would go back up.

The vet that cropped your pup can't he do an ear tuck for you??

If you want any more info please let me know.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:39 PM
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Wow... Learn something new every day! Iv'e never had a "crop and flop". Although we did re-crop our seniors ears due to extraordinary circumstances having nothing to do with the crop. He was extremely ill as a pup. In fact, fighting for his life. When he was down for neck surgery, we had a 10 minute procedure reducing his long show crop to a classic military crop.

The result was great. They healed immediately and stood with no posting.

John
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
@ dobebug...

"I've been posting ears (for my puppies and other people and for breeds other than Dobermans as well) for years--since my first Dobe (1969)"

Uh bug... Shouldn't that "6" be a "5". As in 1959. LOL!

John (with my STJ! hat on)
Oh,yeah--it should be--I plead guilty of presently taking some fairly high powered drug which have adversely affected my ability to type accurately or proof read at all. Bug DUH--thanks STB for catching that...

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:40 PM
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Ear tucks--to get a flopped ear to stand.

Basically the operating vet takes a a small oval of skin from the back of the flopping ear --they determine where to take it by feeling along the back of the ear down at the base and taking a pinch of skin--when they are in the right spot when the ear pops up,. It is the least invasive method of getting a floppy ear to stand. It only works on a ear that has unbroken cartilage though--after they excise the small oval they put two or three sutures in to pull the edges of the missing skin together--usually the ear will stand immediately and you don't have to do anything else except remove the suture 8 to 10 days later. Occasionally the ear may need to be posted.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 08:00 PM
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As promised, a picture of a Doberman that had the tuck surgery. It leaves very small crescent shaped scars. Thanks to Mary and Dobebug for describing the procedure.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the pic! I'm going to post awhile longer ( thanks fo Everyone here!) But if it doesn't work, I'm going to look into this. I'm so glad I asked this group!
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 02:24 PM
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I've caught my husband whispering in her ear hes "sorry your mom is putting you through this

I just can't believe what I just read ! He really does that Romeo ?? Just shaken my head on that one !

Now to tell the truth ----- I have been guilty of doing the same thing - lol And the reply from my Lovely wife was --- well not pleasant --- lol
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Yes he does!

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone!
Chloe ear update, lol. This group gave me the mental recharging I desperately needed to continue posting, I also watched/read a post here on correct posting. (the one with backboard, zip ties). I've been taking it down every 4 days, cleaning both {no discrimination here! and she seems to really like it} GENTLY with treats involved EVERY step of the way! After 1/2 hou tops, back up it goes. Tonight is the fourth time I've done this. I'm posting a few pics of how it's looking. I know it's not perfect, but I'm so grateful that if this were to be the best it ever was, I would still be great with it. FYI, the problem ear is HER right ear, but if you are looking at her straight on, then its the ear on the left. Also, one last thing. I use Uni-Solve Adhesive Removal. Previously I was dabbing it on with a napkin, or pouring it on the tape. I hated it, she hated it. I don't know why It didn't occur to me, but one of the posts showed using Q tips. GAME CHANGER FOLKS!! Chloe will lay on the couch with her head in my lap. A treat here and there, Q tip action and Viola! All done, And we are both happy campers! I'll put more pics of as time goes by. Thanks again for the support and advice. It was and is greatly appreciated. Chloe and Robin
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Another pic.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 08:22 AM
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Dogs Name: Irongates East of the Sunrise, aka 'Jada' CGC, WAC, Ch. Cha-Rish Mine To Imagine, WAC
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You're going to make it. Teeny bit more time and you will be there 100 % Good job!

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you. Lord knows I'm trying!
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
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You really encouraged me. The statement you made "She's too beautiful and I'm too much of a perfectionist" hit the nail on the head! Thanks again!
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