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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Coccidia

Me again.
Zeus's fecal sample came back positive for coccidia. The vet said his levels were "moderate to high". She said the concern with treating him is because of his breed. The medication they usually prescribe to combat coccidia can have adverse effects on dobermans and can cause arthritis. She's going to look for a "compounded medication" (I don't know what that means) which is safer for him to take. I asked how he could've gotten it. Apparently they can get it from eating soil thats contaminated with another dog's poop. Now, I've never seen Zeus eat another dog's feces, but he sniffs around at everything when we go outside on walks. Dog parks also could be a culprit, but we don't go in dog parks. The only thing I can think of is maybe when chasing his ball outside, some contaminated soil got onto it and hence got into his mouth. Or sniffing at poop because people never seem to pick up after their dogs. I asked about his Heartgard and if it should've kept him from getting it, and apparently it doesn't protect against this parasite.

And as I was typing this, I got a call saying that she was able to get the compounded medication from a pharmacy in Arizona. Yay for that.

Has anyone had any experience with dealing with this? Geeze, when it rains, it pours...

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 06:52 PM
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What is she prescribing for the Coccidia?
It usually doesn't take being on the meds for an extended time.
You or the dog can get coccidia from contaminated water, too.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 06:58 PM
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A lot of dogs with Coccidia don't really have any symptoms, so people may not even know their dogs are infected...meaning you may have number of dogs running around who are excreting the cysts. They can stay in the soil a long time, and when conditions are right, they mature and become infective for a dog that eats them. Puppies can get coccidia if their mom is infected and dogs can also reinfect themselves too. Picking up poop as quickly as you can is important, and if you have any surfaces (concrete, tile, resilient flooring, crate) that could have gotten poop on them disinfect them with diluted bleach. Wash his bedding; it's a good idea to disinfect his dog dishes too. If he's been diarrheic, washing and disinfecting a couple of times during his treatment would be a good idea.

Sulfa drugs are commonly used to treat coccidia, and dobes are known to be sensitive to sulfa drugs. Compounded drugs are typically made by the pharmacist with the exact amounts of various drugs a vet or doctor specifies. He can get a mixture that is customized for your dog that way.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 07:42 PM
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The good news ? You found out what is wrong - I will bet that the Meds are coming from Diamond Back or Road Runner Pharmacy - We get Meds from them for Ali -

I did goggle it up and on pet med - it said even a move could do it - I'm guessing - it has to do with coming across a infected area .

Don't get discouraged ! He will get well : And I will tell yeah - we have all been threw the when it rains it pours deal .

Everything will be Ok

Keep us updated !!

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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@ECIN You're right! Roadrunner is the pharmacy the vet mentioned. She didn't say exactly what the medication was, but I'm to expect a call from them. I was hoping they'd call today, but all this happened towards the end of the workday so I suspect I'll hear from them tomorrow. And if I don't by noon , I'll call them. I want to get these meds ASAP so I can start his treatment. The vet said I'd give him 2 capsules, and then 2 more 7 days later. Then a recheck of his feces after (I believe she said 2 weeks later).

@melbrod Should I wait to disinefect everything until he starts his meds, or should I go ahead and do so now? I washed his bedding this weekend, but I haven't disinfected his crate and I guess I'll need to bleach the concrete in the backyard and flooring in the house. I wash his bowl (stainless steel) every day between meals with antibacterial dish soap. Bleach that as well? His poop is very soft, but not watery.

Thanks everyone. Zeus says thank you too!
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 12:29 AM
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Here's common advice vets give:
"Coccidia organisms are very hardy, can survive for long periods in the soil, and are difficult to kill - most household cleaners aren't going to be effective.

Cleaning at high temperatures (ie steam cleaning and sterilization with boiling water) is the best option for utensils and toys (ie bowls, chew toys etc.). Wash bedding on the 'HOT' cycle in your washing machine with bleach.

For kennel areas, floors, concrete etc., washing thoroughly with a 10% ammonia solution is the best and most effective way to keep everything sanitary. You can also use a 1:16 solution of bleach:water.
[Ammonia and bleach can be nasty stuff, so make sure you rinse everything thoroughly before introducing the dog back into an area you've treated, or giving something you've treated back to him.]

Whichever solution you choose, wash all areas thoroughly and leave to soak in for at least 20 mins before rinsing. Grassy areas or soil/dirt can be very difficult in terms of removing all traces of coccidia protozoa.

The best thing to do is to soak the area with either of the above cleaning solutions. However, these surfaces can remain contaminated for up to 2 months or more, so bear that in mind."


Apparently the common meds don't really kill the coccidia; they just limit its reproduction so it will go away slowly on its own. A dog may need to be treated a couple of times, but a healthy dog's immune system will eventually keep the coccidia under control and the dog will remain symptom-free. Puppies and dogs with weak immune systems are most at risk of having a full-blown illness from coccidia.


Steam cleaning, boiling water and ammonia solutions are your best friends for disinfecting.

I would make sure to clean and disinfect dishes everyday, and clean bedding, toys and washable surfaces with whichever of the above methods is doable, every few days during his treatment until he is symptom-free and not continuing to go through cycles of reinfection.

Definitely start now and make it a habit to pick up any poop as soon as it happens. For now, too, confine the areas where the dog goes potty to one particular place in the yard. Soil and grass are hard to disinfect, but if you keep having a problem with reinfection, you can always dig up a few inches of that area of your lawn and replace it with clean dirt and grass to keep the reinfection cycle from continuing.
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Last edited by melbrod; 03-19-2019 at 02:51 AM.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermouse0213 View Post
@ECIN You're right! Roadrunner is the pharmacy the vet mentioned. She didn't say exactly what the medication was, but I'm to expect a call from them. I was hoping they'd call today, but all this happened towards the end of the workday so I suspect I'll hear from them tomorrow. And if I don't by noon , I'll call them. I want to get these meds ASAP so I can start his treatment. The vet said I'd give him 2 capsules, and then 2 more 7 days later. Then a recheck of his feces after (I believe she said 2 weeks later).

@melbrod Should I wait to disinefect everything until he starts his meds, or should I go ahead and do so now? I washed his bedding this weekend, but I haven't disinfected his crate and I guess I'll need to bleach the concrete in the backyard and flooring in the house. I wash his bowl (stainless steel) every day between meals with antibacterial dish soap. Bleach that as well? His poop is very soft, but not watery.

Thanks everyone. Zeus says thank you too!

I forgot one thing that you had asked Mouser - it was - what is a compound drug - Here it what it is .

Compound drugs are:
A combination of two or more drugs.
Prepared by a pharmacist.
For a patientís individual needs.


We get Zinc Gluconate From Road Runner now as Diamond Back quit making it Both are top of the line companies to deal with - you will get a long fine - Give big boy a ear rub for me
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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For those who asked, the medicine he'll be getting is 130mg of Ponazuril. Just got the call from RoadRunner and the meds should be sent out out tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here!

Now I'm on my way to the store for some ammonia, bleach, gloves, and all that other good disinfecting stuff...
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermouse0213 View Post
Me again.
Zeus's fecal sample came back positive for coccidia. The vet said his levels were "moderate to high". She said the concern with treating him is because of his breed. The medication they usually prescribe to combat coccidia can have adverse effects on dobermans and can cause arthritis.
garnermouse,

The drug she is talking about is Albon and she's worried about it because it does contain a sulfonamide radical and Dobes as a breed tend to be sensitive to and reactive to sulfonamides, HOWEVER--the sulfonamides that cause the vast majority of problems are the potentiated sulfonamides and Albon is not one of these. Tell her that even with that sulfonamide radical this drug is commonly the one used for coccidia and I've never heard of a reaction to it.

Quote:
She's going to look for a "compounded medication" (I don't know what that means) which is safer for him to take. I asked how he could've gotten it. Apparently they can get it from eating soil thats contaminated with another dog's poop. Now, I've never seen Zeus eat another dog's feces, but he sniffs around at everything when we go outside on walks. Dog parks also could be a culprit, but we don't go in dog parks. The only thing I can think of is maybe when chasing his ball outside, some contaminated soil got onto it and hence got into his mouth. Or sniffing at poop because people never seem to pick up after their dogs. I asked about his Heartgard and if it should've kept him from getting it, and apparently it doesn't protect against this parasite.
Actually the very most common source of contamination for coccidia is bird feces. None of the heart worm meds will take care of coccidia.

Quote:
And as I was typing this, I got a call saying that she was able to get the compounded medication from a pharmacy in Arizona. Yay for that.
Dang--I was just too late on this--coccidian is a common parasite and even though sulfonamides are contraindicated for Dobermans because of a breed wide sensitivity to them Albon is commonly used and is evidently safe for the vast majority of dogs. Albon is pretty cheap--don't know what the drug is the compounder is making but it's bound to be more expensive. Is that Roadrunner that's compounding it?

Quote:
Has anyone had any experience with dealing with this? Geeze, when it rains, it pours...
Yeah, I personally have a good bit of experience with coccidian over the 60 years of Dobermans. About half of my dogs have had coccidiosis--and one of my breeders has dog yards that have a lot of big trees that shade th exercise yards and the puppy yard--all of her puppies go out with an appropriate dose of Albon to the new owner because she quickly learned when she moved into that place all about birds and coccidia and Dobermans and Albon.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:27 PM
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Hey Garnermouse--when you are cleaning--DO NOT use bleach and ammonia together--that's a deadly combination--either one in the solutions suggested but NOT together.

Chemistry 101 compliments of dobebug
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:47 PM
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Hey Garnermouse--when you are cleaning--DO NOT use bleach and ammonia together--that's a deadly combination--either one in the solutions suggested but NOT together.

Chemistry 101 compliments of dobebug
Thank you Bug, for keeping careless wording under control. Bleach and ammonia are each nasty enough without mixing them together. Rinse and rinse and rinse again wherever you've used either of them.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:56 PM
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Thank you Bug, for keeping careless wording under control. Bleach and ammonia are each nasty enough without mixing them together. Rinse and rinse and rinse again wherever you've used either of them.
You should have seen the run on sentence I had going with not one but two of those sentences that had something killing the dog not the flea while I was practicing prolixity...

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 04:01 PM
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One of these days I'm gonna start a thread featuring our member's choice spelling errors and run-on sentences and...well...prolixity.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Bleach will be used outside on the patio and walkways (also for washing his bedding and blankets, which is currently being done), and ammonia is going to be used on the indoor stuff (kitchen floors, his kennel, and probably the car covering that's in the bed of my vehicle). I'll also use the ammonia solution to spray the yard. Thanks for the warning about not mixing!
@dobebug I keep going over a thousand ways he could've gotten this! You mentioning bird feces reminded me about a park Zeus and I visited about a month ago and there was duck poop everywhere. I've never seen so much of it in my life! I actually threw his favorite ball away that day cuz it was covered in it. That was our first and last time going there. Maybe that's where it came from.
I also blame the renters before us. They had a dog. Maybe it was infected and left us with a infected yard.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 06:11 PM
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It's even possible he's had it for quite a while (a lot of dogs don't show symptoms) and that now, with his condition being a bit poor because of whatever is going on with his skin, the coccidia is multiplying and causing problems instead of being asymptomatic. Perhaps the prednisone may have also knocked his immune response down a bit????

I don't imagine you'll ever know how he got it in the first place, but now at least you know the kinds of places and activities that might lead to his reinfection. Small comfort.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 10:22 AM
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Even though coccidia (I couldn't figure out why I had to keep deleting an 'n' at the end of coccidia but just watched the computer tack it on all by itself--HOW BIZZARE!!)

Any way--even though coccidia is kind of a pain, usually it's pretty easy to treat (and it's definitely fairly often entirely asymptomatic and mild in adult dogs it's not as bad as whip worm which is a real pain in the patotie.

Whip used to be one of those things that you never found in the west coast states or in the southwest states--but was a real problem in the gulf coast and southern states. It got carried in to the west coast via the national highway system and once there proliferated. Hard to eradicate, cyst maker and can survive in soil for years. In the PNW the only way to eradicate it in infected soil is to remove 18" of soil and replace with sterile soil.

Three times I've moved into areas with whip in the soil and I learned from that experience to to keep my dogs on Intercepter year round. Whip is hard to diagnose, hard to control and often results in dogs who never have solid poops...

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