Miss Ali & her 6 month Check up - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Miss Ali & her 6 month Check up

Well --- It's been 6 months since Ali had the very low grade cancerous mass taken off her left leg and check up time - the timing also went right along with her blood work to monitor her values - to keep a eye on her liver .

We had back to back appointments ! That is hard to do - but got it to work out - first was with the oncologist to check her leg = good new there ! There does not appear to be any regrowth at this time But Ali does have other fatty tumors - there was one that the Vet said she would like to further check out - using there brand new CT machine , She did say that she was not overly concerned - but the only way to know for sure was a CT scan . I don't mean this as ?? How do I say this ?? Well sometimes - I get the feeling they are pushing something - maybe a little more than should be - you know what I'm saying ? I now they want to be sure and to do there best to protect our pets - yet ?? I told her I would talk to my wife - as her and Mr. B did not make this trip , and get back with her .

Appointment # 2 - internal Med Vet - Took her back and pulled blood and did a sterile urine sample - this is where they use a needle and pull the sample from the bladder - I did not know they were going to do that - most times , it done naturally . Ali girl was Ali girl -lol had to shake paws with everybody .

When I got her home - she seemed nervous some what - Then yesterday morning - she was pacing and pacing and pacing ! She wanted out , so I let her - she would pee - then pace around and then try to go again and again - this went on all morning - I had to go load out 2 loads of corn - when I got back home - Wife was Very concerned !! Ali was still pacing around - I finally got her settled down some what . I then called back the Vet and asked what did you do different to Ali ???? And told her what was going on . I never got a good answer from her - she was sure it was not the procedure - never seen any problems - I have heard that damn song and dance more times than I want to remember ! She said it could be a UTI but it didn't show up on her urinalysis or it could be from some osteoarthritis . The urine test came back diluted - well that makes since to me as it was taken around 12 noon - to me - this test needs to be done early morning - So I took another sample early this morning and ran it to our local Vet and had it checked for a UTI concentrate - Test came back she has a UTI - How in the hell did we miss this I thought ! Vet asked if she had been peeing more and all the other things that go a long with a UTI - She had none - Our thoughts are it was just starting when I took her to the first appointments then has got worse since and it showed up today with the new test - which we now have her on Meds for .

The talk away -- Nobody knows there pets like the owners do - When we see something different - we know and have to keep pursuing it till we get the answer .

Ali is a new girl today ! back to normal - Our local Vet told me that when they did the sterile procedure - they irritated her someway and that's what caused the anxiety yesterday

Just glad it all is working out today - we worry so much about out little girl .

Well better get going - have 2 more trucks coming in - you know - we have to keep the food on the table or Lady Di would get grumpy with her corn flakes - lol

Doc
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Damn it ! I can only think of one thing at a time ! I forgot - Miss Ali's blood work for her Liver came back - as the Vet said - Unremarkable ! She is good to go !
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 01:18 PM
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Good news on that other stuff......hope URI gets better soon.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 03:38 PM
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We had to do sterile urine samples on Kip a few times...bladder puncture and all. But he already had symptoms, so I don't know if the collecting process bothered him on not.

We always just did aspirations to check to see if something was a surface fatty tumor, so I dunno know about a cat scan. I do remember when my vet got his sonogram equipment he asked if he could use Katana as a test case when they first set it up. But I don't think he charged us. Or maybe it was a very minimal charge because she was sorta due for a partial checkup???? I can't remember.

When I saw your title "Miss Ali" I was a little scared to read further; I thought you were gonna say that you were missing her because...I don't know why. And it's not fun to miss our dogs no matter what the reason. I'm so glad she's doing well.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
We had to do sterile urine samples on Kip a few times...bladder puncture and all. But he already had symptoms, so I don't know if the collecting process bothered him on not.

We always just did aspirations to check to see if something was a surface fatty tumor, so I dunno know about a cat scan. I do remember when my vet got his sonogram equipment he asked if he could use Katana as a test case when they first set it up. But I don't think he charged us. Or maybe it was a very minimal charge because she was sorta due for a partial checkup???? I can't remember.

When I saw your title "Miss Ali" I was a little scared to read further; I thought you were gonna say that you were missing her because...I don't know why. And it's not fun to miss our dogs no matter what the reason. I'm so glad she's doing well.
Sorry about that Mel - But for some reason -- both Vets offices call her Miss - Or Ali girl
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 07:04 PM
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'Sawright.

I used to call Capri Mis-Behavior.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 01:34 PM
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Ken,

I replied to your pm but the pm section was being really weird and when sent the answer off to you first it wouldn't sent it and then it disappeared it.

The short answer is leave her on the Clavumox--it's the stronger med a combo of two antibiotics. Ignore VCA if your own vet is handling the UTI--but don't give both the Amoxi and the Clavamox.

I'd type this out again and send all the details via pm but my feaking leg doesn't like me sitting on the nerve truck and it's killing me.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for you taking the time to reply Aunt B - You are the Bestest !

This has turned into a night mare for me ! The VCA did not pick it up ( UTI ) they said the urine was dilute and that may have been the reason - So I took and sample to her Local Vet and they picked it right up ( UTI ) that was a day and a half after VCA visit -

Local Vet put her on Clavamox - But the VCA DR that is taking care of Ali because of her copper storage ( I guess her Vet in charge ) put her on Amoxicillin- said that would be best for her condition - Both Vets said it will be OK for her to use . I have questioned both in my mind - glad it is a small one : )))

Now throw in wife's 2 cents - she said I should go with her Internal med Vet ( VCA ) - that is when I sent you the pm. this morning - I forgot you to sleep till noon - lmao ! jking !

I really question the mgs of Amox - 2 - 500 mgs twice a day - Now I'm not a dog - but have been kicked a few times - but I was on 2,000 mgs of Antibiotics a day for my elbow injury and it will screw up your guts ! I am afraid it will do the say to Ali girl .

I never have liked Amox . I feel its a weak Anti ! But the boss ruled and advised me to go with it . So I switched over a little bit ago . Wish I had seen this earlier - I would have kept her on the Clavamox.

Thanks again Aunt B .

Ken
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 03:16 PM
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Keeping up with you and Miss Ali and hoping the best there. I am going through similar times with a new vet as my vet of 30 yrs retired and I am exhausted trying to train this new one.
Anyway, just changed vets for mush of what you are going thru right now. Can't figure out why they had to do the cystoscopy just to renew her thyroid meds. Took me totally by surprise
and I felt unnecessary as she evidenced no sign of UTI.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 05:47 PM
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Did the vet say s/he would grow a culture to make sure Ali is on the correct antibiotic? Joe used to get UTI's frequently and a couple of times his doc would change the antibiotic after just a few days. I guess the culture would show the correct antibiotic for the particular infection to be different from the one started.

I hope she is continuing to feel better. UTI's are very painful. Hugs to Ali.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Keeping up with you and Miss Ali and hoping the best there. I am going through similar times with a new vet as my vet of 30 yrs retired and I am exhausted trying to train this new one.
Anyway, just changed vets for mush of what you are going thru right now. Can't figure out why they had to do the cystoscopy just to renew her thyroid meds. Took me totally by surprise
and I felt unnecessary as she evidenced no sign of UTI.
[B]I really understand your problem Cressrb - Our local Vet has cut his hours way back - getting ready to retire - Have been going to him for 20 - 25 years - He does have 2 other Vets in there with him - We have seen her many times when the regular Vet it not there and she is a keeper - She has been there ? maybe 5 or 6 years and just gets better and better - I guess you call that experience - and you only get that with hands on work ! This is the problem I'm having with the other Vet - she Is good - but the one that really saved Ali - left to raise her 3 kids -- she set the bar VERY high ! and I can't get use to that - I guess the problem may be me and questioning the new ones thinking sometimes , most young Vets lack confidents sometimes - they want to do every test in the book - it's like ? how to say this ? they just can't make a decision or trust themselves - Yes - I do understand that they want all the info they can to make the right call - That is what irritates me - here they did all these tests on Ali and did not pick up her UTI by going into her bladder to pull out urine -- YET - we did it the old fashion way and picked it right up ! And they wonder why I'm questioning them : ) Sorry for the rant - but they are messing with our baby girl : )) /B]

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFilley View Post
Did the vet say s/he would grow a culture to make sure Ali is on the correct antibiotic? Joe used to get UTI's frequently and a couple of times his doc would change the antibiotic after just a few days. I guess the culture would show the correct antibiotic for the particular infection to be different from the one started.

I hope she is continuing to feel better. UTI's are very painful. Hugs to Ali.
KC -- You bring up a very good point !!!!! And my guess (100 % ) is no they do not , And I sure am going to ask them why they don't - I should have thought to ask that question myself !! Somebody kick me ! Here' why -it will be 4 years the end of April and I Hurt my elbow - that 3 major surgery's + 3 other lighter surgery's on it and then got a bone infection in my elbow - that is the first thing they would do is - get a sample and send it to the lab to see what they were fighting - Now the funny - but not really funny part - Even knowing what they are fighting - there is different Meds to fight it with - They would pull me off the meds and in 5 to 7 days - the infection would be back - I finally went to see a new infectious Disease Doctor - he checked me out - then asked me - Why are you on this one Med for the infection ??? I said that is the one the other doctor put me on ! Like I'm the one that wrote out the scrip ? lmao ! HE then went on to say that there are lots of other Meds that are much than the one I'm on and changed the Med !

It's coming up on a year since they pulled off Meds again and no infection has shown up - They also said that " IF " I make it a year - Most likely - I'm finally healed up lol So there is the other problem - knowing what Meds to use


Thanks for your reply !

Doc
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 01:28 PM
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About antibiotics and why one MD/or DVM will put a patient on one rather than another.

Ken--UTI's are really common--and most of them clear up immediately with Amoxi--that's why it's often the first antibiotic prescribed.

Ken and KCFilley--the reason not every infection really need to have a culture and sensetivity test before prescribing an antibiotic. If a patient has a history of some particular infection (in this case a UTI) and has had to have a C&S in the past because it isn't being caused by a common bacteria a vet might want to do a C&S first before prescribing. But C&S take time--you have to culture and grow the bacteria and then test the plates with a bunch of antibiotics to see what is effective and and what isn't.

Ken I forgot about Ali's liver issue and I don't have a drug usage paper for Clavamox at home so don't know if the combo of antibiotics is contraindicated for liver issues. Some drugs are mainly metabolized in the liver and if that's one of them that would be why they didn't want her on it.

Amoxi is used for a lot of things--first of all it's tolerated well by most patients. (Ken--almost all antibiotics will play hell with your GI tract in high dosages for long periods--if they prescribed 500mg twice a day that shouldn't be a problem for Ali as far as GI issues go--it's high enough to kill common bladder and urinary tract bacteria though).
It's not a weak antibiotic--in fact it's a very effective one Ken and sometimes it would be the choice one to use on a UTI.

KCFilley--Culture and Sensitivity tests don't actually tell you which drug to use--they specifically tell you what drug isn't working on that particular bacteria or that particular strain. Sometimes there are several other drugs that can be used and sadly sometimes tey is nothing that works--that's what happens with the mersa infections that can't be stopped.

Cressrb--They really did a cystoscopy before they would renew some dogs prescription for thyroid meds? Boy is that bizarre--that needs a blood test. And why would they want it for a dog who showed no signs of a UTI--I think, in particular, some of the young vets with little in the field experience run a million tests--because they don't really know much about symptoms and common pet ailments.

I don't think that either dogs or cats are much bothered with cystoscopies (sterile draws of urine via through the body wall directly into the bladder. Sometimes you really need a 'clean' sample and the cystoscopy does that. As long as there is urine in the bladder and you can determine that by feeling the bladder (even I can do that). One of our vets was just out of vet school when she started with us--she used to do all cystoscopies via ultrasound guided draw--that way she knew there was urine in the bladder and could see exactly where the needle was and knew she wasn't going to hurt them she didn't need to use the ultrasound--she could do it by feel (by brail one of our vets said)--but for two years hers were all ultrasound guided and she didn't charge for the ultrasound.

Ken--one final comment (are you sick of this yet?) about your elbow and the meds and recurring infections. A lot of that probably had to do with the fact that bone infections can be deadly and I've heard that even long time doctor of both people and animals are really scared to death at the prospect of a bone infection. I'm guessing but I'd think that was why they changed the antibiotics frequently--so they didn't start getting organisms that were resistant to one particular antibiotic.

And don't I remember that you reinjured that elbow several times?

And now I've been sitting too long--and I'm going to pay for doing that. And I failed medication 101 yesterday--forgot that I was supposed to be taking gabapentin in the morning, midday and at night starting yesterday. An my physical therapist beat me up good yesterday trying to figure out where I hurt and what aggravated it and what type of exercise might make it better. I'm still sore--woke up a million times last night.

But other that being incredibly cold and the wind is starting up, it's at least sunny.

How's Ali feeling today? Give her a bunch of pets for me and maybe a nice cookie?

dobebug
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your reply Bug ! To are truly a book of knowledge !

First off - Ali is back to normal self today ! Ran in the back door from potty duty and proceeded to chase my Poor little Mr. Business around the table out here in the office !

The Amox for Ali is a total of 2,000 mgs a day - 1,000 twice a day - I may be totally wrong her - but I started her out on half that - a total of 1,000 - to see how she got a long - So dogs just react different to Meds than others - I have seen that first hand here and tend to error on the safe side - then jump it up .

As far as the sterile draw - something irritated her - or it was the stress someway - Her Anxiety level was all most off the scale .

As far as Me ? Yeah - I reinjured it once - but it was a good one ! I stopped at the local elevator to pick up a grain check and there drive was covered in Ice - right when my foot hit the ground - I was down - right on the dam elbow and blew it out - blood ?? It looked like a slaughter house ! Bleed threw two heavy jackets in seconds - the gals working at the elevator came to the rescue - lol

What happened is I hit the elbow on what is called a spike closing wheel on the corn planter - which drove in dirt to the wound - that lead to the infection after the first operation - which lead to a debribement of the bone on the elbow . It is coming up to a year with no meds , which I was on 2,000 mgs a day , took them every 8 hours - Hopefully - I have it whipped this time .

Well better go and give Ali her Aunt B. rubs !

Thanks again

Ken
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 01:56 PM
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Dobebug, I agree! Sadly, had to find another clinic after all these years. My old vet had so much common sense! Lacking in her replacement.
So now I travel 30 mi each way to a new vet.

Thanks as always for the wealth of information in your last post here. We all benefit!
And, you remember to take care of yourself!
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 04:48 PM
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Certain antibiotics they try to save for last, if nothing else is working. They are not prescribed as a first line of defense because they don't want to give already resistant bacteria more chances to become unresponsive to those meds too. So even though those antibiotics may be very effective against all kinds on infections, they're kept as a last resort and are only used when they run into a multidrug-resistant bug.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 10:04 AM
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Thanks again for your reply Bug ! To are truly a book of knowledge !
And Mel can tell you I clearly don't eschew prolixity...<VBG>

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First off - Ali is back to normal self today ! Ran in the back door from potty duty and proceeded to chase my Poor little Mr. Business around the table out here in the office !
Aw Ken--you know that it's the duty of every bitch, young or old, to keep the bad boy dogs in line--she was just taking care of business (pun intended).

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The Amox for Ali is a total of 2,000 mgs a day - 1,000 twice a day - I may be totally wrong her - but I started her out on half that - a total of 1,000 - to see how she got a long - So dogs just react different to Meds than others - I have seen that first hand here and tend to error on the safe side - then jump it up .
That's still within the range of normal dosage for a good sized dog for a UTI. A word of caution here--be very careful of reducing the amount of antibiotics given without discussing it with your vet first. Doing that can sometimes backfire and allow the causitative organism to quickly produce resistant types.. For some drugs (like pain killers) it doesn't make any difference and you can tell from behavior if the dog is getting too much (you've had that experience. That's why antibiotic prescriptions almost always have the statement on dosing that you need to give all of the meds before stopping even if the symptoms seem to have disappeared.

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As far as the sterile draw - something irritated her - or it was the stress someway - Her Anxiety level was all most off the scale .
It's possible that the sterile draw caused the anxiety but it actually sounds more like the UTI that didn't get diagnosed initially was more likely what was going on--poor Ali--it's with stuff like that we always wish they could talk and tell us what is going wrong.

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As far as Me ? Yeah - I reinjured it once - but it was a good one ! I stopped at the local elevator to pick up a grain check and there drive was covered in Ice - right when my foot hit the ground - I was down - right on the dam elbow and blew it out - blood ?? It looked like a slaughter house ! Bleed threw two heavy jackets in seconds - the gals working at the elevator came to the rescue - lol

What happened is I hit the elbow on what is called a spike closing wheel on the corn planter - which drove in dirt to the wound - that lead to the infection after the first operation - which lead to a debribement of the bone on the elbow . It is coming up to a year with no meds , which I was on 2,000 mgs a day , took them every 8 hours - Hopefully - I have it whipped this time .
Holy cow--you sure don't do things in a half way matter--no wonder it took so long to heal properly,

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Well better go and give Ali her Aunt B. rubs !

Thanks again

Ken
You're welcome and give her some more rubs from me--she can't get too many...

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 10:21 AM
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Certain antibiotics they try to save for last, if nothing else is working. They are not prescribed as a first line of defense because they don't want to give already resistant bacteria more chances to become unresponsive to those meds too. So even though those antibiotics may be very effective against all kinds on infections, they're kept as a last resort and are only used when they run into a multidrug-resistant bug.
That's absolute right Mel. And the other thing (and I lived through this one) One of my dogs (my bad luck boy) had something going wrong with his urinary tract--the vets, the pathologist who looked at many urine samples and I all thought eventually, that it wasn't just a simple UTI but was something that involved both kidneys, the bladder and all of the urinary system. He had C&S done early on and repeated later,--none of the more common antibiotics for UTI's worked--and the only thing that was really shown to be the most effective was a potentiated sulfonamide--Dobes are, unfortunately, as a breed, more likely to react to sulfonamides--sometimes in the form of anaphylactic shock and death. The vets and the pathologist didn't even want to try that one--they were very concerned that the cure might kill the dog. So for 18 months he got two high powered antibiotics rotated as they would work for a while and slowly become less effective. Broke my heart--the ongoing infection was killing him slowly--he couldn't eat enough to keep weight on the low grade elevated temperature just burned it off.

Ultimately I bit the bullet and let him go...sweet dog he just had a lot of bad luck with injuries and illnesses.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Ali has always had a sort of a sensitive tummy Aunt B - She is doing fine with Meds and upping her to full round of Meds today - yes - your right about the back firing !

If a job is worth doing - its worth doing right - lol it sure did hurt too !

You know - I have been wondering if the UTI could have given her the anxiety , Yet I still think it may have been all the testing they did to her - I thought is was going to be like always - just a general check up with blood draw - But I got a email over the weekend and they did a full work up - like they did a rectal exam on her - right there would give me anxiety ! + the stile urine draw - What ticks me off most is they - well I will write what they did - : Musculoskeletal : Mild muscle atrophy of left thigh. Resistant to hip flexion bilateral . no joint effusion noted . After that - she has been pretty gimpy on her left rear - sort of a limp but not a bad one - like something may be sore - First time I ever took a dog to the Vet that was heathy to me - great spirits and bring home a wreck !

Sometimes - I think they forget they are working on a senior and should treat them as such - they will not always be the picture of health as when they were young - but it goes with the territory .

I still am not happy with this out come - I have found that anybody is replaceable - well with one exception ( Me ) lol - jking !

I just wish they would have told me first there plans - I would not let them do the stile part on her . It would have helped if I could have been by her side - she trusts us so .

Funny story - when we took Kasia to the Vet - where ever she went we did to - one day - DR was checking her out and they had a new Tech in there - I always would hold Kasia - Wife and I knew her very , very well - the new tech was trying to get to Kasia's head area and take her lead from me - Kasia and I both gave her a chitty look ( Kaisa showed some teeth ) lol DR told her it was fine - let Ken hold her - she does better that way - again the trust thing I guess .

I'm sorry - I can't help myself here - But we took Big girl to the Vet one time for her yearly shots and check up , she was young - I was holding her and the way I was standing - couldn't see all that Doc was doing - all of a sudden - she looked straight up at me - and she had BIG eyes ! On our way home - I asked my wife , What did Doc do to Kasia ? she looked at me with them Big eyes - she laughed and said he took her temperature ! lol She didn't like that trick one bit ! One day shortly after that - I had a paper towel in my hand and I told her I was going to wipe her rear - Oh dang - that was not a good idea - she barked and showed me her pearly whites - lol Them dogs don't forget to much !

Thanks Aunt B for your replies

Ken
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:16 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
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ECIN....like Bug said, when your dog (or YOU ) is getting antibiotics, PLEASE don't change the dosage or give it for a shorter time period than what is on the label without talking to your vet first.

Some dogs do have trouble with some antibiotics (upset stomach, diarrhea, for example) but even then you want to check with your vet before stopping the medication. He may have suggestions about how to handle the dog's reactions or may want to put her on a different med, but it is VERY important that the antibiotic is given as prescribed.

If an antibiotic is given at too low a dose, or stopped before all of the bacteria are killed (even though the dog's symptoms have cleared up, the bugs can still be lurking around in smaller numbers), what you have left still growing there are likely to be the bacteria that are a little more resistant to the drug than the rest of its brothers (or sisters). So when they multiply to the point that you start seeing symptoms again and need to treat her, they will be less likely to respond to the antibiotic that was used.

That is how you get resistant bacteria.

Antibiotics, of course, only work on bacteria, not viruses, and should only be given for a bacterial illness, but hopefully your vet has figured out that a bacteria is likely to be the problem before he prescribes the medication. There is an accepted standard dose and length of time for each medication, and for each kind of illness. There is talk that perhaps the recommended time requirement is too long, but that is still in the study stage. For right now, it's better to stick with the tried and true dosage and time requirements.

Edited to add: Looks like I cross posted with yours above...sorry if I lectured you on something you already knew.
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Mel - That is totally OK ! You were having Ali's best interest in mind !

Thank you friend !

Ken
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