Eva Toeing In - Older Female Dobe - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Eva Toeing In - Older Female Dobe

Eva has been really doing well on Hypothyroid medications for almost 2-yrs. She has leveled off at about 77 lbs. wt. from her peak of 101 lbs. in April 2017 when her treatment started.

For last couple months, Eva has been displaying symptoms of Toeing In on front legs and splaying of toes. I also noticed Eva will sit down and lick both forelegs after playing intense tug of war games with me. She has been wrestling with Spock, playing tug with dad, walking daily long distances and running in backyard (after squirrels) like normal since she lost her excess weight.

I showed pictures of Eva's condition to our Vet yesterday, during my visit with Spock. She said in older dogs, this could indicate shifting of weight forward due to a hip injury which would go along with narrow tracking of back legs. Another reason could just be arthritis from old age. She has never had any verbal indication of pain during activities, just licking of both forelegs after hard physical exertion. I have not noticed any strange tracking of her back legs when walking or running. Both legs feel normal and symmetrical with no swelling. Note- her diet hasn't changed any in last several years.

I personally believe it's the onset of arthritis. Be interested to hear if any DT members have had this happen in your older Dobes.



Eva Toeing In When Sitting/Standing



Closeup Eva Toeing In and Splaying of Toes




Side View Of Eva's Front Paws


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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 03:38 PM
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Capri did something sorta like that with one foot, but she wasn't a senior. So in her case it was an actual injury. She stretched (I don't think ruptured) a ligament on the outside of her wrist (I can't remember which one).




The concern was that eventually the ligament would rupture and that she would end up walking on the side of her foot. We did have a custom brace made for her,



but it wasn't very successful. No matter how much we padded it we couldn't prevent it from rubbing the back of her leg. And then she couldn't wear the brace until the area healed. I guess they work better in a dog that actually has enough hair there to protect the skin. Dobes just don't. We also tried injecting platelet rich plasma into the joint and did physical therapy, but nothing was truly successful.

She never acted like it bothered her and was just as wild as ever charging around.

Capri's problem was only in one foot though...

So I think (after writing all of this) Eva's problem is different. But just in case they consider the same treatment, that was our experience with it.

Last edited by melbrod; 01-16-2019 at 03:49 PM.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 03:43 PM
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As Brandy aged she would tend to kick her right front leg out and her left side would knuckle a little bit. She was diagnosed with spondylosis and the vet believed she did that to take pressure off of her neck. It didn't look quite the same as what your girl is doing though, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Brandy did well for a long time with chiropractic, Adequan and laser therapy (along with Metacam for those tough days).

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 03:43 PM
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My poor memory. Someone was just telling me the other day that their dog had arthritis of the feet and they described symptoms to me similar to Eva.
If memory returns I will call them and see what the vet suggested. I just remember thinking at the time - I have never heard of a dog having arthritis in the feet only.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 04:18 PM
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In your shoes I'd probably want to consult a specialist, but I tend to be a worrier, and my dogs do have insurance. Your mileage may vary.


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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 07:11 PM
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Ali's front does something lie that SD - I have to agree with what your vet said - that her rear quarters have lost muscle as Ali has - she will lick hers like Eva - I rubbed her first joint above her paw and she loves that - matter of fact - she will walk up to me and hold her paw up - Wake up DAD ! And rub it - then she will lift the other leg and I will rub it .


Ali is 11 and Kaisa was older - when see did the same - there is a connection to the older age , I believe - I will see if I have a picture of Ali and post it - if not - I will get one . I personally don't think its anything to super worry about - it father time that's a bitch .


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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 03:43 PM
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It looks like it may be the carpus joint (her knee) that is causing the toe in and what's happening with her feet. Sometimes this is just a result of aging--you can certainly have a dog with arthritis in the carpus.

If you look at her standing does the toe in look like it starts at the elbow? Maybe so that it looks like her elbows aren't tight to her chest any more? That's another possibility--front assemblies have so many places they can have problems that are a direct result of time/wear and tear that without seeing the dog and seeing her move in the front it's really hard to pin point the cause.

The less angulated a dog is in front (shoulder assembly) the more stress it takes over time--so depending on her front angulation and whether or not her front angles put her shoulder and legs UNDER the body (many dogs with straightish fronts upper arm angulation actually puts the upper arm and front legs in front of the body (kind of like a bench--and it's called being bench fronted)--over time this can cause undue wear and tear on the front itself.

How old is she? The thing is that the front itself actually provides most of the weight bearing for Dobe sized dogs--so it may have taken a beating over time and what you are seeing now may have nothing to do with the rear at all.

Toad, who has a very correct front with great shoulders and proper angulation has a big problem now with his right rear because of a partial cc ligament tear and some arthritis in both stifles and hocks. But it's had no effect on his front because of it's basic correctness.

Don't know if any of this information helps but it's the kind of thing you often see in older dogs who are trying to make a not quite right front assembly more comfortable.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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DobeBug,

Thanks for your analysis of Eva's condition.

I just retook some pics of her today and included one from April 2018.
The toeing-in definitely appears to be more pronounced when she is sitting vs. standing.

Eva Standing Front View 4.2018




Eva Standing Front View 1.2019





Eva Front Quarter Standing 1.2019




Eva Closeup Side View 1.2019


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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Update Eva Toeing In Photo

Spock and Eva like to go upstairs with me for regular exercise on equipment. While upstairs, one or both will go out on porch to snoop around whole neighborhood, and in their minds- guard from wild squirrel or cat attack!

I took this fuzzy pic on steps which shows a good side-by-side stance comparison of Spock and Eva. You can see Eva's slight toeing in compared to Spock's stance. (we used to call "Bow Legged" in our youth) Eva's trimmed down much on Hypo Thyroid medication and has leveled at 79.5 lbs. but also looks much leaner.


Spock vs. Eva Stance on Step Landing




Of course Spock, being the Doberboy he is, loves to run up and down the steps crazily like a wild horse! He also will try to wrestle with Eva while she is negotiating the steps, to which I put a stop to.


Spock & Eva Snooping at Upstairs Porch
(on a cold day)






SIDE NOTE: Those (2) door mats I purchased at HD for $2.97 ea, IMO the best bargain in the whole store. The are poly pro, but heavy, rubber-like mats that are perfect for Dobe owners for doors, transitions, etc. I put them on upstairs patio doors so Spock & Eva don't track in algae or pollen from porch deck onto white berber carpeting (which Spock thinks is a giant ear scratching pad!) I also use at back door and transition to MBath.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TrafficM...-904/202616518


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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Took Eva into vet about 3 weeks early for her annual Thyroid Panel blood test to verify/adjust Hypothyroid medication and also to have vet get a first hand look at her toeing-in condition.

Eva was very well behaved in busy waiting room as two Belgium shepherds(one hyper),a boxer and a menagerie of other dogs waited/transited. Vet said her forelegs were indicated signs of arthritis given her 9 y/o age coming up in June. She had some range of motion limitation in front wrist joints due to minor fusing, which is body's way of compensating for condition. Eva has plateaued at 79 lbs. weight and we agreed a 70 lb. goal would be ideal for her. More weight loss will help her forelegs since majority of weight is carried by front legs. Vet recommended reducing her diet intake more and also giving a Glucosamine supplement, such as Cosequin.

So, as with our Lanah's weight loss diet, DW last night replaced some of Eva's high calorie dog food with green beans. Only, Eva just wasn't tricked, being the picky Diva she is. See pic below, where she meticulously separated all the green beans from her dog food and left them, (for food vac, Spock)!


"Eva NO EAT Green Beans!!"

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Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
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Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
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Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 11:11 AM
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Poor Eva,

Sound like she's going have do the hard core food adjustment (just lowering the amount and not adding anything to substitute for hi cal kibble) to get to that gold goal of 70 pounds.

So now you know what is causing the (they still call it bow legged by the way)changes in her front. Not much you can do about it except to get and keep her weight down and limit the kinds of exercise that put excess strain on the front (jumping is probably the worst but running down hill is another as is coming down stairs.)

Tell her dobebug said that aging is the pits and give her a bunch of pets for me--and maybe a low calory treat...

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 04:18 PM
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Reminds me of what my horse used to do when I gave him worming medicine. That medicine (back in the dark ages) consisted of a few tablespoons of little blue pellets each about as thick as a really thick pencil lead and probably less than an eighth of an inch long...pretty small, in other words. I would mix them in with some sweet feed (back then, oats and other grains mixed with molasses--sticky.)

And when he finished eating, there would be a little pile of blue pellets on the bottom of his feed bucket.

Horses can be amazingly agile with those big thick lips, I guess.

So I would hollow out a bit of carrot and stuff it with the pellets. He'd take the carrot whole and then give me the most amazing dirty looks as he crunched it up, but there wasn't much he could do about it at that point. The medicine had to go down.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 05:03 PM
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Green lipped mussels are the best natural form of glucosamine, you can buy it from chewy if your interested. Tried it with Sully but he ended up having an allergic reaction. Now we’re dealing with interdigital cysts 🤦🏻*♀️. I also use an all natural supplement for joint health, and inflammation, it has glucosamine/condroiton, tumeric, boswellia and some other good stuff. Here’s a link https://www.pureformulas.com/joint-o...sulations.html. You could also try golden milk (google for recipe), but Miss Eva might turn her nose up to it.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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5/20 Update on Eva's Leg Arthritis & Toeing In

Update on Eva, turning 10 y/o in June.

She's still active in backyard with squirrel patrol duties along with Spock. (Dobes are so serious about their jobs!)

Funny video from last Sept of them, with a music track added:

Eva & Spock Squirrel Patrol Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfC...ature=youtu.be


However, as posted recently on the chicken thread (Girls Outside), Eva's been freezing on her daily round the block walks during last month. She stops in the same yard when making about 1/4 way round the block (3/4 mile route) looks back, then ahead and doesn't want to proceed either forward or back? I can get her moving with some kibble treats, however, but I prefer not to rely on this method. Yesterday and Saturday, I made sure we went a cool part of day (she hates blasting heat) and she made it around block, no problem. So, the days she freezes, we just wait and double back home. Yesterday, I just waited when she froze, hung out, then she continued on walk after a while.

Eva had started to do this in elementary school earlier in year on weekly therapy visits when taking reading students from classrooms to library in front of school. (quite a bit of walking). I overcame by tossing a single bit of kibble 30 feet down hallway and she would keep going to get it (very food motivated) She's always enthusiastic about her Therapy reading visits and daily walks, but something makes her "turn to stone", as I call it, at the same point and location of the transits.

As posted earlier in this thread about a year ago, Eva developed a toed-in stance on her front legs, along with splaying of her front paws (R. side primarly). After exam, our Vet said it was arthritis and we started her on Cosequin DS at that time. She seemed to be doing well, only symptom is her licking forelegs after any tug or wrestling play with me or Spock. We have her scheduled for an early vet exam this Thursday in lieu of annual exam in June. Dobebug recommended weight loss last year, but we haven't been making progress on her weight reduction. She's on Hypo Thyroid treatment for last several years- holding about 76 lbs. Wt. loss would surely help the strain on joints.


Eva Walking Video 5-6-20
(Returning from full length walk- Tired)





You can see in video how she's walking on splayed toes, with a bit of front limping.


I'm sure it's age related/ arthritis, but I'd sure like Eva to make it a couple more years, if possible, as Spocko needs someone to torment and get attention from! (example video below)



Spock & Eva Dobe Tango


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oW6...ature=youtu.be


Ten Doberman Rules
Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 10:34 AM
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Poor Eva--give her a kiss from me. Getting older is tough.

I feel that way after my walks too sometimes--though usually it's when I get up in the morning after a lot of exercise the day before.

I think you need Mission Impossible music for the squirrel patrol.

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Last edited by melbrod; 05-12-2020 at 10:39 AM.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spocksdad View Post
Update on Eva, turning 10 y/o in June.

She's still active in backyard with squirrel patrol duties along with Spock. (Dobes are so serious about their jobs!)

Funny video from last Sept of them, with a music track added:

Eva & Spock Squirrel Patrol Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfC...ature=youtu.be


However, as posted recently on the chicken thread (Girls Outside), Eva's been freezing on her daily round the block walks during last month. She stops in the same yard when making about 1/4 way round the block (3/4 mile route) looks back, then ahead and doesn't want to proceed either forward or back? I can get her moving with some kibble treats, however, but I prefer not to rely on this method. Yesterday and Saturday, I made sure we went a cool part of day (she hates blasting heat) and she made it around block, no problem. So, the days she freezes, we just wait and double back home. Yesterday, I just waited when she froze, hung out, then she continued on walk after a while.

Eva had started to do this in elementary school earlier in year on weekly therapy visits when taking reading students from classrooms to library in front of school. (quite a bit of walking). I overcame by tossing a single bit of kibble 30 feet down hallway and she would keep going to get it (very food motivated) She's always enthusiastic about her Therapy reading visits and daily walks, but something makes her "turn to stone", as I call it, at the same point and location of the transits.

As posted earlier in this thread about a year ago, Eva developed a toed-in stance on her front legs, along with splaying of her front paws (R. side primarly). After exam, our Vet said it was arthritis and we started her on Cosequin DS at that time. She seemed to be doing well, only symptom is her licking forelegs after any tug or wrestling play with me or Spock. We have her scheduled for an early vet exam this Thursday in lieu of annual exam in June. Dobebug recommended weight loss last year, but we haven't been making progress on her weight reduction. She's on Hypo Thyroid treatment for last several years- holding about 76 lbs. Wt. loss would surely help the strain on joints.


Eva Walking Video 5-6-20
(Returning from full length walk- Tired)





You can see in video how she's walking on splayed toes, with a bit of front limping.


I'm sure it's age related/ arthritis, but I'd sure like Eva to make it a couple more years, if possible, as Spocko needs someone to torment and get attention from! (example video below)



Spock & Eva Dobe Tango


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oW6...ature=youtu.be
She sure does look painful.

A couple of questions and input from me:

First, what food does she eat, and how much? Do you use a measuring cup to measure each meal? My first start would be to measure each meal with a measuring cup and cut back by 1/4 of a cup at each meal to start. Let's look at what she's eating and see if any of us have some ideas. There are actually some decent "satiety" foods on the market that have been really successful for dogs, too.

Second, have you talked to your vet about injectable Adequan for her? I don't know that the over the counter supplements are cutting it anymore, and Adequan is really good as a step up for joint supplementation. Vets can give it in their office, and if you're decent at injections they can actually prescribe it and you can give it at home.

I'd also probably want her on an anti-inflammatory, or at least to have one prescribed and available to give as-needed. She seems painful.

If she were mine, I might also look into seeing whether there is a rehab/sports medicine vet. It's possible something like chiropractic, canine massage, water therapy, some of those types of treatments would help her. Any of this would be with consultation with my regular vet.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
She sure does look painful.

A couple of questions and input from me:

First, what food does she eat, and how much? Do you use a measuring cup to measure each meal? My first start would be to measure each meal with a measuring cup and cut back by 1/4 of a cup at each meal to start. Let's look at what she's eating and see if any of us have some ideas. There are actually some decent "satiety" foods on the market that have been really successful for dogs, too.

Second, have you talked to your vet about injectable Adequan for her? I don't know that the over the counter supplements are cutting it anymore, and Adequan is really good as a step up for joint supplementation. Vets can give it in their office, and if you're decent at injections they can actually prescribe it and you can give it at home.

I'd also probably want her on an anti-inflammatory, or at least to have one prescribed and available to give as-needed. She seems painful.

If she were mine, I might also look into seeing whether there is a rehab/sports medicine vet. It's possible something like chiropractic, canine massage, water therapy, some of those types of treatments would help her. Any of this would be with consultation with my regular vet.
I really like MeadowCat's suggestions and I have some of the same questions.

What is she eating and how much and are you using a standard measuring cup when dishing it out. I know when she started on a thyroid med she lost quite a bit of weight and I assume she's still on that so probably what's keeping her weight up now is either the kind of food or how much food.

I still think one of the first things I'd do is take some more weight off of her. As MC said--there are some very good Satiety food available--the best ones are also prescription so expensive. In fact Royal Canin has a weight loss/control food called Satiety (for both cats and dogs) from the reports back on our endless supply of overweight Golden's and Labs (easy keepers the Satiety works--and their owners are always surprised when their vet says they need to loose weight). Hills has a whole list of weight control foods--WD but it control weigh loss/gain primarily by quantity control. Hill's MD-we used to carry this one but I think both Hills and other food manufacturers had better formula's. Hill's RD is another one some of our hunting dog owners and clients swear by this one--they say it'll keep their hunters in proper weight during non-hunting season--in hunting season they use things like Purina Pro Plan Sport 30/20 and Hills most recent one is M--rats--I just lost the name--starts with M and if favored by both dog and cat owners have never been successful in not simply feeding too much food/treats etc.

I've never had a dog that I had on Adequan--so I don't know a lot about it except for the rave review I read from time to time.

Eva looks so painful in video I'd definitely be looking for an appropriate pain reliever--probably one of the NSAIDS--Rimadyl (generic is carprofen) tends to get a bad rap but I know a whole lot of dogs (especially Labs) who would have been euthanized because of unremitting pain without it. Toad was on a minimal dose of carprofen for the last three years of his life--and we started it when he wasn't even limping. When he was 11 I saw he was sitting with his left knee pointing out (which he'd never done in the past and I've seen enough dogs with a variety of cruciate and lateral tendon problems to bet that was going on with him. We took a bunch of x-rays and sent them out to one of our local very good ortho surgeons--who verified what I thought--Toad's vet thought that he had a partial tear. And he was on cardiac meds and 11 so we all thought it best to not even consider surgery. He didn't even limp from it but the carprofen obviously made him more comfortable. And there are other NSAID's that can be used for pain that also do a good job of pain control

The sports vets and rehab vets seem to be really able to get a handle on what kind of thing would have the best results for Eve and what sure looks like pain.

And yes, with keeping her regular vet in the consultations if you decide to go out to another specialty for more information.

Good luck with this--it's always tough with an older dog who seems to having pain.

ABTLH
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 09:06 PM
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I'm not a vet - I want to be very clear on that first. But I'm surprised your vet is bothering with Cosequin at all in a dog they believe to be arthritic. Cosequin has zero evidence to support that it works at all. My vet recommends Dasuquin instead, which has been evidenced via clinical research to be effective. Its just as easy to get (i.e., no Rx necessary) as Cosequin, but known to be effective.

My girl, Tali, was arthritic her last ~2 yrs of life. She had an old shoulder injury that developed arthritis and she had a bit in her lower back, and in her feet and her front legs bowed out a bit, too, when she would sit and she started kind of swinging her front feet out a bit when she walked. As it progressed, she also avoided/refused stairs and stopped wanting to climb on and off our bed and sofa.

Her vet started her on Carprofen once per day. It was amazing for her - her improvement was a night and day difference! We did eventually have to increase it to twice per day but it helped her so much. Based on how well it worked for Tali, I wouldn't hesitate to ask my vet for something stronger (and backed by scientific research and evidence) than Cosequin for an old dog with arthritis. You might be amazed at the difference in quality of life it can have for a dog.

I hope you're able to find something that works for her!
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 09:09 PM
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I agree with the others that Eva would benefit from some type of pain relief. We all get achy the older we get! Have you considered CBD oil? You should speak to your vet of course. Coco was on CBD oil her last 1.5 years and it really helped her with her old gal aches. I prefer natural remedies and this worked for her for aches, pain and anti inflammatory properties. Of course her last week with osteosarcoma I opted to utilize pain management for her along with the CBD because she needed heavy duty meds.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your responses, Eva has vet appt. this morning.

Yesterday she and Lanah walked early (cool) and completed circuit without freezing, just pausing to smell. They both are avid sniffers and love going on walks after rains when scents enhanced!

Eva and Spock both eat Pro Plan Shredded Chicken kibble daily, total of 1.5 cups for Eva w/Chia and some coconut oil additive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Did some research, Cosequin DS (Eva takes) and Dasuquin are both made by Nutramax and have same ingredients, except in different amounts:


Cosequin DS Ingredients





Dasuquin MSM




Dasuquin MSM has 30-300% more components, but is 3X price of Cosequin DS, so latter looks like a better value. Eva's not a great pill taker, will spit out sometimes, even with a piece of thin lunch meat ham. Having more active ingredients in one pill might be better for her and easier for us to administer!

--------------------------------------------------------

As AB pointed out, Carprofen is generic Rimadyl (NSAID), which we gave successfully to our previous Chi-Terrier X, Lillah, in her later few years. She had bad joints and would actually yelp with pain when jumping off couch/beds. The Rimadyl did wonders for her, although a post heartworm dog, she made it to 15 y/o, and eventually succumbed to a cardiac tumor. Toughest little dog I've ever known (not a rain shower wimp like Dobes!)...

Didn't think about getting Eva on a prescribed NAISD previously, as her freezing on walks and during therapy visits has only surfaced in last few months. I will definitely discuss getting Eva on Carprofen/Rimadyl and getting more weight off her with dietary changes. I like the option of Carprofen liver flavored chewable tablets.

Also will bring up Adequan injectable with our vet, as AB recommended.

"The specific mechanism of action of Adequan® in canine joints is not known. PSGAG is characterized as a “disease modifying osteoarthritis drug.”

https://www.drugs.com/vet/adequan-canine.html

It looks like a good alternative, if the Carprofen isn't effective, but don't look forward to giving Eva injections 2X weekly, maybe during butt rubs?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Even though Eva is a stubborn Dobergirl, I don't want arthritis issues to interfere in her quality of life. She loves going to school/colleges for visiting the kids in her therapy work and REALLY enjoys her walks with me, even though she now walks like "an old lady".


Spock however (still thinks/acts like he's 2 y/o), being the attention starved (NOT) Doberboy, would trade 10 walks for one school visit with young school children petting and hugging him!


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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 07:58 AM
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I watched the Video you posted up ole bubby - Poor Eva girl walks very tight to me - I don't think its just her front leg - but its also her rear legs - she just looks tight in her right rear .

Bug did a great job on foods - We had Kadin on the Hills weight reduction for a few months and it sure did work on him - I will also add we added some No Salt Green beans to it sometimes - to add to him feeling full . Walmart and most grocery stores have them .

When Kasia got older , Like 13 or so , she did the same freeze up as Eva - She was on some Anti's and it really helped her .

I really hate to say this Spocksdad - But there is a time - where I just could not take Kasia on her long walks - we had to cut them back some - just let her decide on what she wanted to do - If she just wanted to walk out in the yard and sniff around and goof off then that what she got , At first , when she locked up - I think it was harder on me , I would rub her and say - oh come on girl - lets got to he neighbors , then It just hit me one day , I was just asking to much out of her , she was happy and healthy - yet her joints just would let her do it any more . After the years she has been gone - I understand more about how she felt , as I have a knee that's gone .

I liked the idea of taking her to a ?? say a VCA or like hospital where they can sort of exercise her - I have seen this done first hand , it's amazing to me , how they do this - the one I seen had a large tank with a tread mill in it , then they fill it up with water ( may be a problem with a Dober ) to take the weight off there legs and pressure on there joints , a dog that was having walking problems were now walking up a storm and they said they seen good results out of this treatment .

Best of luck with Eva and give her a big hug for Doc .
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 10:10 AM
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Spocksdad - the difference between the Dasuquin and Cosequin is the ASU powder. The company that makes the product did some scientific studies, and there is something about that that actually DOES make a difference in how the product works. When I talked with our sports/rehab veterinarian (she's the former head of the college of sports/rehab veterinarians), she said that Dasuqin is the only joint supplement on the market that is backed by science, and the only one she actually recommends using. You can read about how ASU works on their website (https://www.dasuquin.com/en/faqs/) and there are actually studies backing it up.

Just wanted to share that.

As far as diet goes, I would certainly cut Eva's food back to 1 1/4 cups and see what happens if you don't want to look at a satiety diet. I don't know what her weight or ideal weight is, but my Sypha only eats a bit under 1 cup per feeding. (She eats the Proplan Sport, but is a lot more active and younger, so needs a higher calorie food). Even so, I bet at an older age Eva could probably do with fewer calories.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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MC- Thanks for info on Dasuquin, we'll switch over to try out. I just ordered large bag of soft chews from Amz.

Vet Visit Update- This morning, Eva got examined, annual shots, Geriatric blood tests including liver & Thyroid panel. I talked to vet, Tessa, at length, outside in parking lot, as no customers being allowed in facility- everything is from cars. I had to walk Eva into front door, as she wouldn't go alone with vet tech...

Tessa had viewed video link I sent her earlier in email of Eva's walking. She agreed that starting on Rimadyl 75mg x2 / day should be highly beneficial. Also discussed Adequan, which she said was great, but super expensive. It will be backup plan to Rimadyl treatment. She said reason injection meds work so good is they can get to joints better than meds via gastric system. Discussed with her efforts to get Eva get down to 70 lbs. to lessen stress on joints, but she's only eating 1.5 cups/day food? After Thyroid test results come back, we'll talk more about weight loss.

I also sent Tessa a link to Eva & Spock's Squirrel Patrol video, w/music added, so she could see how important mobility is to our Dobes, to do their jobs!
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 12:35 PM
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As far as Anti-inflammatory meds, Hoss’s go to is Galliprant.
Costs more but easier on the belly and always responds well to this medication.
Bug why is it that Galliprant rarely comes up in conversation in the area anti inflamatories for our pups?
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Update Eva Walking 5-15-20 2nd Day on Rimadyl

Started Eva on 150mg Rimadyl/day yesterday after vet visit.

During this morning's potty time/ squirrel patrol/ breakfast club Eva was chasing the little furry pests right along with Spock. Eva seemed to be prancing proudly back to patio after successfully chasing the intruders away. (I'll get video on future morning)

Eva's morning walk today went great, she was really livelier and seemed to be improving. Point at end of video, is where she normally freezes on previous walks. So far, so good. The power of drugs = less pain = enjoy life!


Spunkier Eva on Morning Walk 5-15-20



Ten Doberman Rules
Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!
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