HELP! Should I Keep my male intact??? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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View Poll Results: Neuter my 3 year old male, welcoming a female puppy in couple of weeks, NOT A BREEDER
yes! take his baby makers! 5 71.43%
No! let him keep his Manhood!! 2 28.57%
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Question HELP! Should I Keep my male intact???

Hello everyone!

I have a 3 year old intact male doberman and I love him to death. He has no real aggression problems except with unfamiliar intact males (he does great when introduced slowly). He's a big boy, he is easily distracted by other dogs but I think that mostly my fault for not being as strict with him. I am getting a female doberman in a couple of weeks and so now I'm on the fence about getting my male neutered.
I absolutely do not want to breed my dogs so that is not a factor. I am nervous about accidental pregnancies because accident do happen. If I were to keep my male intact I would keep them separate during the females heat cycles, I have a house and yard big enough to keep them separated no problem.
I am just weary about taking my males manhood, I feel so bad but I also don't want sex to be the only thing on his mind when the female arrives but I also don't really want to alter him. There are so many pros and cons to each side.
I am looking for any and all advice or your experiences dealing with either and altered or unaltered male and adding a female into the mix.
Again, I absolutely do not want to breed but I don't want want to change my dog either. I just want my dogs to be comfortable and happy.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 08:04 PM
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My current youngest (pushing 4 yo) is intact. Our previous 2 were castrated at about 2. Before that all of our males were left intact except for one who was neutered at about 6.

IMO, you will not notice a change in your dog if you neuter him at this point. The exception, from my experience, is that you may want to carefully watch his weight and if you notice an uptick, adjust his diet accordingly. Oh... Sometimes a dog when neutered has a reduced tendency to sniff, lick and mark. Not always.

This is just me, but I would not bring a non-spayed female into a regular home (as opposed to a strictly controlled environment ) with an intact male.

You should have thought about this before, as there is some recovery time when castration is performed on a mature male. I would do it sooner than rather than later. At the very least, well before your female pup's first season.

Best to you

John
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 05:48 AM
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Best interest of everyone to get neutered.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 08:04 AM
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Good Morning. First of all it's quite common for these guys to have same sex dog aggression, that is why reputable breeders will not send a male puppy home when there is already a male in the home. Second of all, please don't think of neutering as "taking away his manhood." Dogs don't think about it the same way that we do, mostly all that will happen after neutering is he will no longer be able to breed, sometimes there are behavior changes but usually very minimal, it's not going to take away his spunk or make him lazy. Also, in tact males are much more likely to wander and get lost. Unless you are actively showing him or planning to breed (which you said you weren't) it is much safer for him to get neutered. Let's say you choose not to neuter him and your pup goes into season, it's not just as simple as keeping them separate, most intact males will do anything to get to a female in season, including chewing through/destroying their crate, going through doors and even walls. Two intact dogs can get together in a split second, are you prepared to terminate a pregnancy after your male gets ahold of your 8 month old pup? Most people are not prepared to handle two intact dogs, without an accidental breeding.

My male, Sully was intact until he was about 3, I was showing him at the time but her tore his ACL and his show career was over, I had him neutered when they repaired his knee, zero changes to his personality. Now I have a pup at home and I am preparing for her to go into heat. It's not as simple as putting panties on her so she doesn't bleed all over your house. You won't be able to let her out unsupervised....remember intact males wander to get to females in heat and they can and will jump your fence and even breed through a fence. Most breeders and vets recommend spaying/neutering early because the average person is not prepared to deal with the added stress and responsibility of having an intact pet. However, there are some pros and cons to spaying early and/or waiting until their growth plates are closed (you can find threads on that here).

My advice to you is to get your male neutered ASAP and think long and hard about whether you want to keep your female intact.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 08:22 AM
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Typically breeders advise against early spay/ neuter due to studies showing potential neuroskeletal issues. Since the dog is 3, this is no longer a concern. Personally I would neuter the dog, since this is not a breeding animal. The reason why I would do so is because as dogs get older there is the potential for prostate issues, the neuter minimizes that risk. He's still young and that makes recovery from the surgery a lot easier.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 08:26 AM
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I know this will be an unpopular opinion because most on here have drank the Kool Aid and automatically think neuter him, neuter him, spay her, spay her. That is the mantra sang by the rescue groups and veterinarians for many years. However, there has been recent research that has found the leaving them intact also has its benefits. Yes, there is an inconvenience a couple of time a year. Yes, you will have to keep them separated for 3 weeks, but some males don't pay much attention to bitches in season. Not all of them are mindless maniacs.

If you want to do what is convenient for you, you will spay and neuter them. If you want to do what is best for the dogs, you will leave them intact and be a responsible dog owner and separate them when she is in season.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 09:19 AM
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I'm probably also in the unpopular opinion camp. I don't desex a dog unless there is a medical reason to do so. I've got a lot of personal reasons, but my main one is health really. In 40 years in dogs, I've never had an accidental litter, yes, twice a year things can get annoying, but typically it isn't for the entire season, it's only for that portion where the female is ovulating and receptive to the male. Is this time a pain? It can be, depending on the male, an option you might look into would be a vasectomy for the male, it leaves his hormones intact, but removes the ability to reproduce. Should I be in a position to have to spay a female at some point, I will be looking at leaving the ovaries, but removing the uterus for the same reason, the hormones that are an essential part of the enddocrine system will remain intact, but the ability to reproduce will be removed.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 10:34 AM
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It's a decision only you can make after gathering your own information and consulting with your veterinarian. You will have to take extreme care to keep them separated if you do not have them both fixed. In that scenario the safest option is to board your girl while she goes through her heat cycle or send your male away to stay with someone else for that period of time. From what I've gathered, there's more risks in leaving a female intact, so if you are to only spay or neuter one, I would spay your female after 1 or two cycles. For what it's worth, I've always had de-sexed pets, and my current puppy is the first that will stay intact, but only because he is show quality. Good luck in what you decide. By the way, I've edited your poll so that it will close in one weeks time.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 11:40 AM
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I only breed occasionally and am considered "a reputable show breeder".... for any non-show dog leaving my home, I require that they be spayed after their first heat, and neutered at 18 months.... will consider earlier depending on the situation. There is no reason to keep a dog intact past maturity - and the "experts" are all divided on this issue. My reasoning is most people do not want the responsibility of making sure that accidental pregnancies do no occur - it is a PITA to keep intact dogs and bitches together.... trust me, I've done it! Keeping a bitch intact is a real PITA - I don't know why anyone with a pet dog would want to go through bitch cycling longer than they absolutely have to.
My GCH male was neutered at age 7 because of prostate infections - after getting rid of his 3rd one I said "3 strikes and you are out buddy"..... at 10 1/2, he does not seem to miss his balls and it ended the teeth chattering, excessive licking, and humping.... did nothing for the whining - hahahahaha.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 11:41 AM
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I don't keep females--period.

Mosly I never neuter males. They all start out intact because they all start out being show prospects. I have occasionally neutered adult, intact champion males for reasons relating to healh (prostate issues in two cases) and they were all older dogs--one was 9 and the other was 8. And I neutered one dog at 2.5 when he was diagnosed with a genetic problem and I wanted to make sure he was never bred.

I have never had one of my intact males "accidently" breed a bitch. But in the case of the 25 year old dog that I neutered he had a highly desirable pedigree, was vWD clear and had outstanding longevity behind him and I did not have total control of breeding rights.

With intact males there is always the possibility that you'll get one of the "mindless" idiots--who can actually drive you insane if there is an intact, in season bitch in the house. While I wouldn't necessarily consider neutering the only option, I would board e dog while the bitch was in seasonif you intet to leave her intact. And for the record some bitches can be as determined as some males when it comes to getting bred--but I would not consider it safe to board an in season bitch in a commercial kennel.

I'd also recommend that you stop thinking of your dogs testicles as totally related to his "manhood"--first of all he's not a man--and dogs really don't have the same sort of thought processes as humans. I would also not have a vasectomy performed on one of my intact males--there are enough intact males who can and do breed bitches in season (although it does mean no puppies are produced) because the only thing you eliminate is the possibility of puppies and not the other behavior related to intact males around a bitch in season.

And since I don't keep bitches I don't even have to consider what I would do about spaying a bitch or not spaying a bitch or doing partial hysterectomy but off the top of my head I'd probably spay if the bitch was not intended for breeding.

My personal, unpopular opinion is that people who can't keep their intact dogs controlled shouldn't have intact dogs.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
I'd also recommend that you stop thinking of your dogs testicles as totally related to his "manhood"--first of all he's not a man--and dogs really don't have the same sort of thought processes as humans. I would also not have a vasectomy performed on one of my intact males--there are enough intact males who can and do breed bitches in season (although it does mean no puppies are produced) because the only thing you eliminate is the possibility of puppies and not the other behavior related to intact males around a bitch in season.


Ooops--That should have read ---"there are enough neutered males who can and do breed bitches in season"
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 03:01 PM
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...yes, twice a year things can get annoying, but typically it isn't for the entire season, it's only for that portion where the female is ovulating and receptive to the male.

Just to clarify because this statement can be taken to mean a truncated separation of male and female is all that is required, as in, the human guessing at when the female is ovulating. Nope! Separation for the entire time the female is in heat, every time the female is in heat, is the ONLY way to guarantee no puppies.

And, your male, like many intact males, may have a lot of stress for the .11/year that your female will be in season, losing weight, vocalizing, pacing, etc. Its nothing but a royal PITA that I would never do if my male had reached maturity as yours has done.

THE BOONDOGGLE
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
I know this will be an unpopular opinion because most on here have drank the Kool Aid and automatically think neuter him, neuter him, spay her, spay her. That is the mantra sang by the rescue groups and veterinarians for many years. However, there has been recent research that has found the leaving them intact also has its benefits. Yes, there is an inconvenience a couple of time a year. Yes, you will have to keep them separated for 3 weeks, but some males don't pay much attention to bitches in season. Not all of them are mindless maniacs.

If you want to do what is convenient for you, you will spay and neuter them. If you want to do what is best for the dogs, you will leave them intact and be a responsible dog owner and separate them when she is in season.
Your opinion is not "unpopular" with many of us. Certainly not with me. Hence the reason why my youngest will remain intact until a time where medical issues may dictate otherwise.

Still... IMO, the average dog owner is pretty clueless when it comes to these kinds of potential problems.

It's kind of like me dissuading folks from entering into a 2 male household when a Doberman is involved, even though I have done it many times, for better or for worse. But, my lay opinion is that the average home is not properly prepared to deal with a dog/dog relationship gone South. I know how to deal with it. Or better yet, circumvent it.

My next pup will most likely be a bitch. I will (hopefully) still have an intact male (s). I am confident in my ability to be able to make it work. But my observations of the dog owning world around me still tells me that most dog owing homes don't have the education or desire to "make it work".

So... Basically I agree with you. I just wish more dog owners would be on the ball.

John
Portland OR
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the input! just to clear it up I know my dogs not a man so when I say manhood I simply mean his balls which is the difference between a male and female (I know not the only difference). I have him trained pretty well I have never had issues with him trying to get out or run away he's a pretty solid dog. I figured it would be a PITA if I kept him intact and had to have them separated but it is doable for my situation. I was also planning on getting the female spayed when the time is right bc lets be honest a female in heat is no fun for anyone. So since I will end up getting the female spayed thats another reason why I'm on the fence about my male neutered. I was just thinking if he stayed intact it would be a hassle to get him focused but that will be more of a training thing on my part im assuming. I really appreciate all the input and replies! I just want to make an informed decision before I do something I cant reverse.
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