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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Flakes all of a sudden

In the last week, Mocha has started flaking. No the smaller dandruff she'll get from time to time, these are big flakes, from 1/8" to 1/4". She still gets her monthly allergy shot, eats the same Rx food, gets fish oil, coconut oil, and the occasional can of sardines in water...so nothing has changed, diet-wise. I asked my wife if she's given her any human food or something we usually don't give her and nope, so that's not it. I thought maybe it was the cold/dry snap we got, so yesterday I gave her a bath with the Duoxo medicated shampoo which has always helped with the skin issues. By the time she was dry, the big flakes started showing up again. I can lightly rub my hand down her back and the flakes just pop up.
My first thought is she got in contact with something she's allergic to which the shots don't cover...of course if it doesn't get any better within the next day or so I'll make an appointment but in my experience, the regular vets don't really know what to do except do skin scrapes, and do blood work. She's not acting itchy at all, no licking or scratching whatsoever so this is odd.
Any ideas or thoughts?



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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 10:26 AM
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TN - that is some big flakes ! It seems to me that all our Doberman get that sometime - I thought it may be from the transition from the dry air in the house to when we start getting moisture back in the air . Have done the same thing as you - bath with oatmeal in it - everything - then one day -- it's gone !

I did like the part in your post where you asked your wife if she had been giving him human food ! That a boy ! Blame it on the Mrs. ! lol
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 10:29 AM
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Have you started a new bag of food recently?
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Have you started a new bag of food recently?
Yes, about 2 weeks ago or so. I thought about that too, but she's been on that food for almost 3 years now and has never had an issue but it's something to consider.



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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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I did like the part in your post where you asked your wife if she had been giving him human food ! That a boy ! Blame it on the Mrs. ! lol
Mocha has issues with food intolerance as well as her allergies; She's allegedly allergic to beef and I know she's had issues with chicken-based kibble so she doesn't get table scraps.



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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 12:25 PM
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Yes, about 2 weeks ago or so. I thought about that too, but she's been on that food for almost 3 years now and has never had an issue but it's something to consider.
Companies sometimes tweak a recipe, and they have a certain amount of time before they have to start putting the new formula on the package. You might want to contact the company, and see if that's what
happened.


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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 01:53 PM
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You might try adding more EFA's to her diet. We do so in the form of Sardines. If you have Costco in your area the prices are amazing, especially when on sale, and that is when we stock up.
We give our Dobermans one can a week to make sure they aren't depleted with the Essential Fatty Acids. Never had a problem with dry coat or scruff. Just an idea.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Companies sometimes tweak a recipe, and they have a certain amount of time before they have to start putting the new formula on the package. You might want to contact the company, and see if that's what
happened.

Afternoon Rosemary ! One thing that can change is the ingredients - Take corn - some just have a higher protein that others - or it was the weather conditions - that can affect a crop - Same thing go's with any soy - that is added to the dog food - I have seen big changes in the amount of oil that is in beans - there is even a higher grade oil in some varieties - Beet Pulp pellet - even if it's all Non GOM products - weather is a big deal in grade levels - So they may tweak it - not aiming to .

BTW TN - No Human food for ours either - Well - Kasia stole a hamburger - once - lol
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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I may have over reacted, but that's the norm for me with anything Mocha LOL

Mocha's coat is already looking better this afternoon. This is my first ever dog with allergies and on allergy shots; I remember back in February, towards the end of the month, a few days before her shot was due, Mocha was flaking more than usual as well (although it was nothing like this), I'm wondering if after a while, the shots may start losing some of their effectiveness, as in, they don't last as long? Or it could also be spring, when there are more allergens present, so the allergies really start kicking in and the shot isn't quite as effective?

Mocha has always had sensitive skin; not sure if your dogs do this but I can tell when this girl starts getting stressed, she'll look like someone poured a bucket of flour on her coat and it comes on really fast.

Cressrb, We give Mocha 1 tin of sardines in water per week, plus she gets a spoon of coconut oil with each evening meal. She also gets fresh veggies and fruit several times a week (peeled cucumbers, bananas, tangerines etc).

I'll keep an eye on her; she's due for more bloodwork later this month anyway to recheck her liver ALT which was a tad elevated back in January and while we're there, I'm going to request another thyroid check as well which I do annually since at least one of her parents had thyroid issues that I know of.



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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 06:12 PM
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I regularly give my dogs raw eggs to help prevent skin/fur problems (growing up we had a newfoundland - eggs were a necessity). They are a great source of not only the essential fatty acids but also high quality protein and other nutrients. Mine get 1 raw egg per week over their normal food. And don't worry about the egg farts, once they get them regularly and their digestive tract gets used to it, those go away.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 06:38 PM
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TNfisher - I know nothing about dogs with allergy conditions / but have improved coat condition, very successfully.
- I'll relate my overall experience, that may offer some tidbits of value...for Mocha
- I'd also be interested in knowing, exact brand of kibble & treats, she gets (??)

Beau's Diet Pet Stories..."we are what we eat / dogs included":

- 1977 pup was on feed mill kibble, recommended by top breeder / looking back, probably 2 star (by today's rating), all pet food was largely crap, in the old days
- she suffered from a dry & coarse hair coat & stinky farts

- year 2000 puppy, had similar coat as 1977 girl / this time I tracked down healthier kibbles, free of fillers with approved meats for human consumption
- Amy's coat went perfect & Dad started selling the pet food (without a store front)
- Pet Perfect Express -- "Delivering human grade kibble for human pets" was born / shut down after 2008-10 recession
- over a decade in business, I helped hundreds of dogs / many times it was simply switching lower grade chicken
by-product kibbles to Holistic Lamb & Rice
- +95% of customer dogs, improved big time

- 2012 Kelly started off on the best quality kibbles but plagued with a bad gut bacteria (from 8 week old parasite) - her coat was flaky & off & on soft stools.
- changing kibble from 4 star to 5 star helped (went from Acana >Orijen >Nulo)
- settled on Nulo Lamb & Lentils, saw coat improvements again
- plus started home cooking as a morning supplement to kibble (cooked meat/veggie stew ... 2/3rd cup daily)
- and added daily Probiotic ( https://naturesfarmacy.com/featured/...iotic-max.html )
^^ Kelly's overall health, coat condition & immune system...has greatly improved.

DOGZYMES Probiotic Max
We’ve taken the canine-specific probiotics and enzymes to the MAXimum with this new product. It contains 8 strains of specialized beneficial bacteria and 10 different enzymes for a MINIMUM of 6.8 Billion Colony Forming Units PER GRAM! Thanks to new technology and research Probiotic Max is even more effective in helping the canine body rid itself of invading pathogens and helps sooth an overactive immune system. Built to support the dog’s body during hard work, stress, illness, growth, compromised immune systems, old age difficulties, pregnancy, and more. ORGANIC Whey base, it can be used in dry food, wet food, dissolved in liquid, or mixed in milk for puppies, very ill dogs, or emergencies. Suggested feeding rate: ¼ teaspoon per 25 pounds of body weight UNLESS we advise you otherwise for special cases.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 06:49 PM
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Stress and instantaneous dandruff....

A trip to the vet and my dogs would flake out even before they got into the exam room........
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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Stress and instantaneous dandruff....

A trip to the vet and my dogs would flake out even before they got into the exam room........
LOL... A trip to the vet and McCoy's nub goes like crazy and he stars to drool like Pavlov's dogs thinking about all the treats he's going to get!
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
TNfisher - I'd also be interested in knowing, exact brand of kibble & treats, she gets (??)
Mocha eats Royal Canine potato & rabbit, which is the ONLY food so far where she's had semi-solid stools and has been able to maintain her weight. If you go back into my thread history, you'll see where she wasn't able to put on weight, and constantly had runny, loose stools when she was younger. We tried them all; Fromms, Purina (fed by breeder), Orijen 6 fish (she did ok on this for a while), Taste of the wild, sensitive stomach brands, grain free etc. and a few others and none of them worked. It wasn't until we were referred to specialists (dermatologist and internal specialist) that the current food was recommended and she gained 20 pounds in less than 6 months, and her skin/coat improved by leaps and bounds. Any chicken-based kibble = loose, runny stools plus hives/bumps on skin, and the allergy test we had done showed her to be allergic to beef, fescue grass, Johnson grass, willow trees, pecan trees, flax, and a whole host of other things (Interesting that the allergy test did not flag chicken; food intolerance more than allergy?). The shots have helped a lot, plus we wipe her down after being out in our fescue grass yard. Fescue grass, of all things to be allergic to. As far as treats, it's mainly cucumbers, bananas, tangerines etc. and her kibble.



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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 10:33 PM
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Nulo Medal Series Adult Lamb and Lentils (5 stars)
Dry Dog Food
Ingredients: Lamb, turkey meal, chicken meal, whole peas, sweet potato, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols & citric acid), lentils, menhaden fish meal, pea fiber, natural lamb flavor, yeast culture, dried chicory root, potassium chloride, dried apples, dried blueberries, dried carrots, dried tomatoes, calcium carbonate, salmon oil, salt, sweet fennel, dandelion, chamomile, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), iron proteinate, niacin, copper proteinate, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, manganous oxide, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), sodium selenite, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, dried Bacillus coagulans fermentation product, vitamin B12 supplement, calcium iodate, folic acid, rosemary extract

3.8 out of 5 Stars
ROYAL CANIN Canine Selected Protein Adult PR Dry
https://www.amazon.com/ROYAL-CANIN-C.../dp/B0066OSTIE
Product description
If your dog is displaying several of these symptoms, it may be time to switch your dog to Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Hypoallergenic Select Protein - Potato and Rabbit Dry Canine Formula. Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Select Protein Potato and Rabbit Dry Dog Food is formulated to upset your dog's system as little as possible. Royal Canin Potato and Rabbit Dry Dog Food contains a mixture of ingredients that work together as a complete and balanced dog food.

ROYAL CANIN - 2.5 to 3 star range
https://www.amazon.com/ROYAL-CANIN-C.../dp/B0066OSTIE

R.C. Example Ingredients: Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, brown rice, oat groats, wheat gluten, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, natural flavors, chicory, salt, fish oil, sodium silico aluminate, calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, vegetable oil, psyllium seed husk, potassium citrate, dl-methionine, l-tyrosine, calcium carbonate, fructooligosaccharides, l-lysine, sodium tripolyphosphate, monocalcium phosphate, taurine, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E),...........................

PS
VETS commonly sold Hills Science Diet & Medical / Royal Canin bought the Medical brand, and got into the profitable vet pet food business...most vet foods, are a 3 star at best.
- I insist on 4 star minimum, and found NULO Lamb (grain free, 5 star) to be one of the best brands, on the market
- and with skin problems, always avoid chicken formula
- I sold Royal Canin some 17 years ago / and quick to drop the line, after first year (in business)...reasons in RED
- it can help some, depending on what was fed earlier / but not the complete quality, I was searching for
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------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 07:27 AM
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Very good post 6-7 ! Girl has been on both Hills Science Diet & Medical / Royal Canin - she is on RC right now for Copper Storage - as - The Vet told us - that her liver can not process protein - So that meant no more grill chicken as any of the good stuff - We started out with the Science Diet - but got to the point she would not eat it any more - she is now getting that way with the RC - We add no salt green beans in with the RC - Which she liked for a short time - now she pick's them out - lol

As you pointed out that either one - at best is a 3 star - This may be the reason - the dogs just can not process the good stuff , Like I have always said - the foods they say that are good for yeah - or what the Doc says will need to eat - well to me - it's tasteless ! lol

Girl go's to the Vet soon for her checkup and blood work - I have a list of questions - one being - the food deal

Thanks again

... Ken
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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One thing I've learned is that yes, some foods are reviewed higher or lower than others but in the end, you have to feed your dog what works for him/her
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 09:29 AM
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TN ---- YOU playing on your computer again at work ????????????????

Oh - I know ------- Your " Testing " out your work ! lol

Have a good one TN
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:07 AM
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I've started adding Sardines into Ace's diet but shewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, how do you help the smell! Cause his gas afterwards is TERRIBLE, lol.

They do seem to be his favorite though. He's a super slow eater, but add a pack of sardines in, and its gone in no time. I just end up having to wash his face, wash the dog bowl again, and then evacuate because the gas is about to get REAL.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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TN ---- YOU playing on your computer again at work ????????????????

Oh - I know ------- Your " Testing " out your work ! lol

Have a good one TN
Huh...playin on my computer at work is....my work



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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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I've started adding Sardines into Ace's diet but shewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, how do you help the smell! Cause his gas afterwards is TERRIBLE, lol.

They do seem to be his favorite though. He's a super slow eater, but add a pack of sardines in, and its gone in no time. I just end up having to wash his face, wash the dog bowl again, and then evacuate because the gas is about to get REAL.
Mocha's noxious gas output stopped around when she turned 1 year old or so....either that, or I've gotten used to it over the years, which is highly unlikely, considering she used to have the ability to peel the paint off the walls
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:20 AM
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I've started adding Sardines into Ace's diet but shewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, how do you help the smell! Cause his gas afterwards is TERRIBLE, lol.

They do seem to be his favorite though. He's a super slow eater, but add a pack of sardines in, and its gone in no time. I just end up having to wash his face, wash the dog bowl again, and then evacuate because the gas is about to get REAL.
Glad you posted this info up about the gas I think we would have to move out if Mr. B's got that bad - lol

But that do's give a idea ! How long till the gas kicks in Chesa ? I guess I could feed him some before we go to town - lol That would wake them up lol
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:51 AM
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One thing I've learned is that yes, some foods are reviewed higher or lower than others but in the end, you have to feed your dog what works for him/her
Exactly. The "best" food for one person's dog might be the "worst" food for another person's. One person's "you couldn't pay me enough to feed that *stuff*" can be pretty much the only food another person's dog can tolerate.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
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Mocha's noxious gas output stopped around when she turned 1 year old or so....either that, or I've gotten used to it over the years, which is highly unlikely, considering she used to have the ability to peel the paint off the walls
Bahaha, he's getting close to that point. Silent but deadly is his theme.

Quote:
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Glad you posted this info up about the gas I think we would have to move out if Mr. B's got that bad - lol

But that do's give a idea ! How long till the gas kicks in Chesa ? I guess I could feed him some before we go to town - lol That would wake them up lol
Its within the hour lol so i gave him Sardines the other day for lunch, and then we left for the afternoon to go have dinner with friends. Lol. House smelled a bit musty when we got home, but opened a few windows and it was good. Hahaha.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 06:28 PM
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Stress and instantaneous dandruff....

A trip to the vet and my dogs would flake out even before they got into the exam room........


Hey Mel,

This is the second post of mine in a week that has gone missing. I posted to this thread right around that thread about the difference in protein quantity in grains by ECIN. And I was talking specifically about the possibility of stress dandruff.

The other missing post was in the Chicken Thread--but that was unimportant except for the fact that not all cats are left handed.

Too weird.
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