Grain free food/DCM link? Peas and lentils...FDA investigation (thread renamed) - Page 3 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Doberman Health If it has to do with your dog and its health post here.

 31Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #51 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 08:20 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,735
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,760
Thanked 13,409 Times in 4,671 Posts
Images: 9
                     
If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR
dobebug likes this.
4x4bike ped is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
dobebug (07-01-2019), LadyDi (07-01-2019), MeadowCat (06-30-2019), melbrod (06-30-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 07:54 AM
Alpha
 
Kansadobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,897
Location: Kansas USA
Dogs Name: Breeder for over 40 Years
Titles: Bred 40+ AKC Champions, Top 20 Conformation and Obedience Contenders, and SCH Titled

Gallery Pics: 15
Visit Kansadobe's Gallery
Thanks: 2,485
Thanked 10,009 Times in 1,511 Posts
Images: 15
                     
We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.
dobebug likes this.

Kansadobe is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kansadobe For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (07-01-2019), Cressrb (07-01-2019), dobebug (07-01-2019), LadyDi (07-01-2019), melbrod (07-01-2019)
post #53 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 11:58 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,780

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,680
Thanked 22,430 Times in 5,959 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR
You changed McCoy to the ProPlan Savor shredded blend?--It's not quite the same as the ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach (salmon and rice). Purina added the ProPlan Savor line several years ago now--it seems to appeal to picky eaters--but the shredded strips are a mixture of soy and salmon and since none of my dogs have been picky eaters I just kept on feeding the ProPlan Focus (which I've been feeding through three name changes. I felt it was a little better and I have no picky eaters but you might want to look into the differences between the two ProPlan lines since you are still in the middle of a kibble change.

Have a nice sunny day (with a possibility of thunder sturms tonight--maybe) some more Midwest weather but it's sure nice right now.

dobebug
dobebug is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (07-01-2019), LadyDi (07-01-2019), melbrod (07-01-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #54 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 01:16 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,735
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,760
Thanked 13,409 Times in 4,671 Posts
Images: 9
                     
@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR
dobebug likes this.
4x4bike ped is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (07-01-2019), melbrod (07-01-2019)
post #55 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 03:01 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,276
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 25,197
Thanked 9,743 Times in 3,537 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Probably some of Docs soybeans .......

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (07-02-2019), melbrod (07-02-2019)
post #56 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 11:17 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,780

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,680
Thanked 22,430 Times in 5,959 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR
LOL--actually soy is in practically all of the foods I've fed my dogs over the year--they didn't care--they think wheat and corn are OK too. But since they get some of what ever I'm making for dinner they all think that what ever I hand them (lettuce, cabbage, cucumber peels, ends of zuccini's, apple cores and peels, bits of tomatoes, carrots, celery (although some of the dogs didn't like the leaf ends)--etc--I'm not terribly concerned that they might become vegans.

I can't remember why I didn't even try the Savor line (a vet was the one who told me about it)--I vaguely remember comparing ingredients and I think (maybe) that the actual amount of salmon was greater in the Focus than in the Savor.

Who knows--this weather really cracks me up--it's like being in South Dakota at my grandmothers during the summer when I was kid.

ABTLH ooops thought I was on the chicken thread--dobebug

Last edited by dobebug; 07-02-2019 at 11:20 AM.
dobebug is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (07-02-2019), LadyDi (07-02-2019), MeadowCat (07-02-2019), melbrod (07-02-2019)
post #57 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 11:27 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,340
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 47,041
Thanked 57,322 Times in 15,656 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
There is an excellent blog post from a veterinary nutritionist addressing the FDA update. You can read it here: https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com...zun0QINi1Tk6CU

The whole blog post is very worth reading. She does advise that we don't need to panic, you may not need to rush and change your dog's food, but she also nicely summarizes what we do and do not know. The reasons I've *personally* chosen to switch to a WSAVA food are really illustrated by her two quotes below:


"Meeting minimum nutrient levels on paper are not enough. Pet food manufacturers must know or hire knowledgeable individuals with an understanding for how nutrient level vary in the raw materials, how they are affected by other ingredients or nutrients in the mix, the effect of cooking (or lack of cooking) on nutrient stability and bioavailability, and the wide range of variability in genetics and food intakes in the dog population. Basing diet formulations on market trends rather than nutritional science is a recipe for disaster."

"At the end of the day diet-associated DCM is a preventable condition and manufacturers who are selling foods that are labeled as “complete and balanced” have an ethical and fiduciary obligation to meet that label promise. Having an idea about pet foods, being a dog trainer/breeder/owner, inheriting a family pet-food business, and/or writing a book about dogs and cats (even if it’s about food) does not qualify a person to know what it takes to keep a large population of dogs and cats healthy. No free passes because you didn’t know what you didn’t know, no matter the sincerity, especially if it ends up with disease and death."
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (07-02-2019), dobebug (07-02-2019), LadyDi (07-02-2019), melbrod (07-02-2019), Rosemary (07-02-2019)
post #58 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,735
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,760
Thanked 13,409 Times in 4,671 Posts
Images: 9
                     
So... 9th feeding into McCoy's Pro Plan transition. All is well. Absolutely no issues. He thinks the new kibble is a treat! LOL

But that has always been McCoy... Cast iron stomach with a non-discriminating appetite.

Just "FEED ME"!

John
Portland OR
dobebug likes this.
4x4bike ped is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (07-02-2019), MeadowCat (07-02-2019), melbrod (07-02-2019)
post #59 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 01:42 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,735
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 14,760
Thanked 13,409 Times in 4,671 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.
Yup

McCoy is my first dog that has ever been fed grain free. He actually was fed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy until he was 14 months.

Neither diet caused any issues.

Over the years, our only dog to have died from DCM related causes, was never fed a grain free diet. Also, I have never had a dog with food related allergies.

John
Portland OR
4x4bike ped is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
MeadowCat (07-02-2019)
post #60 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 10:31 AM
Regal River
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Port Orange, FL
Dogs Name: River

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit mybabyshai's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
 
So confused

I have been reading this thread and really appreciate everyone's contribution.
I planned on feeding Orijen to my new puppy (I don't have yet) but now I am completely confused.

It seems I have to choose the lesser of the evils...controversial ingredients, possible links to DMC, other ingredients leading to possible organ damage or cancer, and lastly cost of the food.

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

I just want a dry kibble that is mostly good for my precious dog, yet not so expensive I need a second job!
(homemade is not an option for the most part because I hate cooking but willing to add some things like eggs, veggies, etc. and raw is out... the thought of raw makes me nauseated)

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/...dients-review/
mybabyshai is offline  
post #61 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 05:25 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,780

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,680
Thanked 22,430 Times in 5,959 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybabyshai View Post
I have been reading this thread and really appreciate everyone's contribution.
I planned on feeding Orijen to my new puppy (I don't have yet) but now I am completely confused.

It seems I have to choose the lesser of the evils...controversial ingredients, possible links to DMC, other ingredients leading to possible organ damage or cancer, and lastly cost of the food.

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

I just want a dry kibble that is mostly good for my precious dog, yet not so expensive I need a second job!
(homemade is not an option for the most part because I hate cooking but willing to add some things like eggs, veggies, etc. and raw is out... the thought of raw makes me nauseated)

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/...dients-review/
It kind of looks like your post, because it's on page 3 of a discussion of grain free and it's relationship to DCM may have been totally overlooked. You might want to try reposting as a new thread.

But here are some thoughts on the issue. I've been feeding dogs (mostly Dobermans since 1959 and I've used (at the recommendation of a long ago vet) almost exclusively kibble manufactured by big companies who use nutritionists who formulate food, keep actual dogs whose role is to test foods to make sure that they actually accomplish what they are supposed to accomplish. It's worked well for me and I'm somewhat leery of taking recommendations offered by some of the purported experts who offer their opinions and rate various kibble.

I'm really curious about these ingredients that are supposed to organ damage and/or cancer. That's a new one--but I admit I don't really keep up with reading the various lists of good/bad/indifferent kibbles.

So what are the 19 controversial ingredients and the 3 harmful ingredients in ProPlan?

For the record--most of my dogs (the exception was a dog with a kidney infection that we--his vets and I--could not control and who was euthanized at nearly 8 because the ongoing elevated temperature was killing him slowly) but the rest of them on average were between 9 and 10 years and while 2 actually died because of DCM/CHF in the case of 1 and sudden death a nearly 10 in the case of another all the rest may have had cardio but it wasn't what killed them--most were euthanized because of other issues but all were either between 9 and 10 or over 10 and my geriatric guy now will be 14 in November.

For nearly that last 20 years I've fed ProPlan--mostly the Focus Sensative Skin and Stomach (salmon and rice) or Focus Chicken and Rice.

This is a kibble that has kept my dogs in excellent shape--bright eyed, full of energy, glossy coat, appropriate weight without needing to feed large quantities of food, small firm stools--that's what I look for in terms of results and that's what I've gotten from the ProPlan diets.

Not every dog will do well on the same diet--but most of the diets created by the big food companies are not computer formulations but are actually tested on real live dogs to make sure they perform as promised.

While the prescription diets are often more expensive than the non-prescription diets I find the ProPlan to be reasonably priced--it isn't part of the prescription line.

I don't home cook--but I do add things to my dogs diets from puppyhood on--and I don't feed puppy food or large breed puppy food--I feed kibble that is ALS (all life stages)--and this has some advantages that aren't always met with a puppy food for the larger breeds at least. I add either cottage cheese or yogurt, hard boiled eggs, small quantities of ground beef, ground turkey or chicken--cooked to a sloppy Joe consistency and the dogs get a couple of tablespoonsful with a meal. I do this with the puppies because I want them to eat every meal eagerly--so I want the habit to be formed when they are young. I don't bother adding vegetables to the kibble--they get bits of anything I happen to be fixing for me--lettuce, celery, tomatoes, green pepper, most fruit (no one except me really likes grapefruit)--one of the cats is particularly fond of melon.

So I'm still really curious about the list of controversial things and the 3 harmful things that are supposed to be in ProPlan.

Don't know that this answers any of your questions but it's what I've done for quite a long time--seems to work.

For the record--I do not feed any formula that uses lamb as the main meat protein source--over the years I've tried lamb formulas occasionally and none of tem seemed to provide what my Dobermans needed--the first thing that happened was their coats started looking dry and dull and the next thing that happened was that they became very hard to keep in good weight.

dobebug
dobebug is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
Fitzmar Dobermans (09-11-2019), LadyDi (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-11-2019), Rosemary (09-11-2019)
post #62 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 07:43 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,340
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 47,041
Thanked 57,322 Times in 15,656 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybabyshai View Post
I have been reading this thread and really appreciate everyone's contribution.
I planned on feeding Orijen to my new puppy (I don't have yet) but now I am completely confused.

It seems I have to choose the lesser of the evils...controversial ingredients, possible links to DMC, other ingredients leading to possible organ damage or cancer, and lastly cost of the food.

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

I just want a dry kibble that is mostly good for my precious dog, yet not so expensive I need a second job!
(homemade is not an option for the most part because I hate cooking but willing to add some things like eggs, veggies, etc. and raw is out... the thought of raw makes me nauseated)

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/...dients-review/
My first response is...the person running this website "rating" petfoods....the qualifications they list on their own webpage (per https://www.pawdiet.com/about/): "Behind this website is Arby Abraamyan, founder and developer of PawDiet. Arby graduated from UCSD in 2015 with degrees in Math, Economics, and Computer Science."

In what way is this person at ALL qualified to evaluate pet food? I see zero relevant degrees in any animal science, nutrition, veterinary school, etc. It's VERY easy for people to "look" like an expert on the internet, to regurgitate any sort of pseudo-science that is out there, and especially to make you buy into the marketing claims made by many companies. I wouldn't give anything this person says a second thought, personally.

There are much better ways to evaluate what your dog is eating. Your veterinarian. A veterinary nutritionist. If you want internet help, there are good resources, too:

These are both from the World Small Animal Veterinary Council:

WSAVA Selecting Pet Food for your Dog

The Savvy Dog Owner's Guide to Nutrition on the Internet

Tufts University also has a really good nutrition page with articles and resources: https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
dobebug (09-12-2019), LadyDi (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-11-2019), Rosemary (09-11-2019)
post #63 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:48 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,050
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 38,836
Thanked 30,921 Times in 10,294 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybabyshai View Post

-------

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

-------

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/...dients-review/

My thought on the information in the Paw Diet link is "Umm... if you think the food is so bad, why do you have a link on your website for places to buy it?".

One reason that brands like Purina, Hills, and the like have been around so long, and have such a large following, is that they are overall good foods that large numbers of dogs and cats do well on.

The irony of expensive, supper-premium foods is that every single one I tried, my dogs didn't do well on. As a matter of fact, on one highly rated brand, my Standard Rat Terrier developed acute pancreatitis, while my mutt turned into a walking snowstorm she had so much dandruff.
dobebug likes this.


~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH S-ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~~Requiescat In Pace~~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!” Julie Flanery
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
dobebug (09-12-2019), LadyDi (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019)
post #64 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 05:18 AM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,276
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 25,197
Thanked 9,743 Times in 3,537 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Hoss recently had a trip to his cardiologist for his first well check......we discussed dog kibble........his recommendation was Purina Pro Focus.
He stated this........other companies proclaim to conduct studies.....for a specialist Purina provides answers with the science to back up their information. So.......Pro Plan it is for our Dobe.
dobebug likes this.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
dobebug (09-12-2019), MeadowCat (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019)
post #65 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 02:06 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,780

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 11,680
Thanked 22,430 Times in 5,959 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Hoss recently had a trip to his cardiologist for his first well check......we discussed dog kibble........his recommendation was Purina Pro Focus.
He stated this........other companies proclaim to conduct studies.....for a specialist Purina provides answers with the science to back up their information. So.......Pro Plan it is for our Dobe.
Many, many years ago my then Vet made the same sort of recommendation and for nearly all of the time that I've had Dobes I've followed it.

Food information was a lot harder to get then--no internet but my vet said deal with the big companies--they actually do studies. Purina was one of his recommendation even then (nearly 60 years ago) all of the other four companies no longer exist but my cats ate Hills/Science Diet from the 1970's on--and I've fed Iams/Eukanuba and the dogs and I were happy with it and more recently Royal Canin is one I've used some of their prescription diets--again with success. But Purina ProPlan remains my go to food and has been for over 20 years now.

For all of those companies--if you can't find answers to questions about the food on line an e-mail or phone call to any of them will get you everything you every wanted to know.

And from time to time I try the latest hot seller in the new foods--I've had some interesting results--like the highly touted kibble that my Aussie (who would eat anything) said wasn't food and he was moving if I wasn't going to feed him better. Or my experiences with lamb--over the years--three different manufacturers--the only common link was lamb--exactly what happened varied but chronic diarrhea was one of the things and for all dog dull and dry looking coat and difficulty maintaining weight. Lamb evidenty works for some breeds but it sure didn't for my Dobermans.

And it turned out recently that as far as grain free goes--one dog didn't like it--evidently he liked his carbs as grain--not potato or lentils. Soft stools with all of them---not enough of the right kind of fiber.

But I've had very good luck with ProPlan's salmon and rice (by whatever name--it's been through three name changes since I first started routinely feeding it.)

dobebug
LadyDi likes this.
dobebug is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019), Rosemary (09-12-2019)
post #66 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 02:34 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 21,741
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 64,970
Thanked 54,978 Times in 17,563 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
....But I've had very good luck with ProPlan's salmon and rice (by whatever name--it's been through three name changes since I first started routinely feeding it.)

dobebug
I think its current name is "Purina Pro Plan Focus Sensitive Skin & Stomach Salmon & Rice‎"

It's the package changes that bother me. I head to the store (or search the net) with a certain picture in my mind; if they change the colors on the bag or even the dog's picture, I'm lost.
dobebug likes this.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
dobebug (09-13-2019), LadyDi (09-12-2019)
post #67 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 02:56 PM
Alpha
 
TNfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,237
Location: Middle TN
Dogs Name: Mocha
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: DOB 3/21/2014
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit TNfisher's Gallery
Thanks: 9,392
Thanked 8,876 Times in 2,017 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Click here to find out how TNfisher became a supporter
After about 5 weeks, Mocha has fully transitioned to the Pro Plan SSS salmon and rice as of today. Yeah, 5 weeks may be a long transition period but given her history with that sensitive digestive system of hers, I felt it was better to be safe than sorry.
Throughout the transition period, her stool has gotten slightly bigger and a bit softer but nothing major that has me worried. I think we may need to cut back on her intake; she's getting 1 1/2 cups morning and evening, and about 1 cup around lunchtime. The lunchtime feeding is a leftover from the Rx food days; the internal specialist suggested 2 cups morning and evening and 1 cup around lunchtime which I initially thought a lot but it worked so we stuck with it.
I think we're going to either go to 1/2 cup at lunchtime or completely cut it out and see how Mocha's weight and stool are. As long as she doesn't start losing weight, 3 - 3/12 cups a day should be fine.
One thing I have noticed though, her coat looks a lot better than it did when she was on the Rx food so that's a big plus



She is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are her life, her love, her leader. She will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of her heart. You owe it to her to be worthy of such devotion.
- Author Unknown
TNfisher is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TNfisher For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (09-12-2019), MeadowCat (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019), Rosemary (09-12-2019)
post #68 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 03:09 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,276
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 25,197
Thanked 9,743 Times in 3,537 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Hoss is doing great on Purina Pro Plan Focus....chicken......since I put him on this food he has gained some unwanted pounds........so I cut his food back.
Was getting four cups a day total.......now getting a total of 3 cups per day...ah--hem......that's measuring cups !!!! LOL
Funny thing is .......he appears to notice his shortage............after he eats his reduced portion......Hoss Dobe Smacks his food container.........then he finally gives up and fetches a toy for his entertainment. He recent trip to the cardio doc was interesting regarding weight determination........this doc used his fingers and felt the rib bones...........he told me I should be able to find the rib bone ...and move my fingers in between the bones ........if I have difficulty being able to get in between the rib bones that would be an indication to reduced the dogs weight. So Hoss has to lose 10 pounds..........and he is pissed off about this reduction in food.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
MeadowCat (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019)
post #69 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 03:20 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,340
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 47,041
Thanked 57,322 Times in 15,656 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNfisher View Post
After about 5 weeks, Mocha has fully transitioned to the Pro Plan SSS salmon and rice as of today. Yeah, 5 weeks may be a long transition period but given her history with that sensitive digestive system of hers, I felt it was better to be safe than sorry.
Throughout the transition period, her stool has gotten slightly bigger and a bit softer but nothing major that has me worried. I think we may need to cut back on her intake; she's getting 1 1/2 cups morning and evening, and about 1 cup around lunchtime. The lunchtime feeding is a leftover from the Rx food days; the internal specialist suggested 2 cups morning and evening and 1 cup around lunchtime which I initially thought a lot but it worked so we stuck with it.
I think we're going to either go to 1/2 cup at lunchtime or completely cut it out and see how Mocha's weight and stool are. As long as she doesn't start losing weight, 3 - 3/12 cups a day should be fine.
One thing I have noticed though, her coat looks a lot better than it did when she was on the Rx food so that's a big plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Hoss is doing great on Purina Pro Plan Focus....chicken......since I put him on this food he has gained some unwanted pounds........so I cut his food back.
Was getting four cups a day total.......now getting a total of 3 cups per day...ah--hem......that's measuring cups !!!! LOL
Funny thing is .......he appears to notice his shortage............after he eats his reduced portion......Hoss Dobe Smacks his food container.........then he finally gives up and fetches a toy for his entertainment. He recent trip to the cardio doc was interesting regarding weight determination........this doc used his fingers and felt the rib bones...........he told me I should be able to find the rib bone ...and move my fingers in between the bones ........if I have difficulty being able to get in between the rib bones that would be an indication to reduced the dogs weight. So Hoss has to lose 10 pounds..........and he is pissed off about this reduction in food.
The PPP SS food is a fairly high calorie food (429 calories/cup) so, depending on what you fed before, it's very possible that your dogs were eating fewer calories and that's why you need to cut back.

For comparison, Richter (neutered, about 75 pounds, 7 years old), gets two meals a day, each meal is 1 1/2 cups. Sypha (intact female, about 65 pounds, almost 4 years old), gets two meals a day, only 1 1/4 cups per meal. Both in great shape.
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
dobebug (09-13-2019), LadyDi (09-13-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019), Rosemary (09-12-2019), TNfisher (09-12-2019)
post #70 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 05:32 PM
Alpha
 
TNfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,237
Location: Middle TN
Dogs Name: Mocha
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: DOB 3/21/2014
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit TNfisher's Gallery
Thanks: 9,392
Thanked 8,876 Times in 2,017 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Click here to find out how TNfisher became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
The PPP SS food is a fairly high calorie food (429 calories/cup) so, depending on what you fed before, it's very possible that your dogs were eating fewer calories and that's why you need to cut back.

For comparison, Richter (neutered, about 75 pounds, 7 years old), gets two meals a day, each meal is 1 1/2 cups. Sypha (intact female, about 65 pounds, almost 4 years old), gets two meals a day, only 1 1/4 cups per meal. Both in great shape.
I think you're absolutely correct. The reason the doc told us to start with 5 cups a day of the Rx food was because she said it was low calorie/low (or medium, can't remember) protein and to watch Mocha's weight...she filled out from 40 to 60 pounds and is now right around 64 pounds (probably could stand to lose 3-4 pounds) so if the Pro Plan is high calorie, no way can we stick with the old feeding amounts. But if she does do well on this, it'll save us around $50 per month which is nice
dobebug and LadyDi like this.



She is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are her life, her love, her leader. She will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of her heart. You owe it to her to be worthy of such devotion.
- Author Unknown
TNfisher is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TNfisher For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (09-13-2019), MeadowCat (09-12-2019), melbrod (09-12-2019), Rosemary (09-12-2019)
post #71 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 07:49 AM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,276
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 25,197
Thanked 9,743 Times in 3,537 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Yeah Meadow...was feeding Earthborn Lamb......reads 370 calories per cup ........versus Pro Plans 429 per cup.........
Hoss sure loves the proplan........HE WANTS MORE !!!!! Yum!
dobebug likes this.

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
MeadowCat (09-13-2019)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome