Grain free food/DCM link? Peas and lentils...FDA investigation (thread renamed) - Page 3 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #51 of 60 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 08:20 PM
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If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR
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post #52 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 07:54 AM
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We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.
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post #53 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR
You changed McCoy to the ProPlan Savor shredded blend?--It's not quite the same as the ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach (salmon and rice). Purina added the ProPlan Savor line several years ago now--it seems to appeal to picky eaters--but the shredded strips are a mixture of soy and salmon and since none of my dogs have been picky eaters I just kept on feeding the ProPlan Focus (which I've been feeding through three name changes. I felt it was a little better and I have no picky eaters but you might want to look into the differences between the two ProPlan lines since you are still in the middle of a kibble change.

Have a nice sunny day (with a possibility of thunder sturms tonight--maybe) some more Midwest weather but it's sure nice right now.

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post #54 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 01:16 PM
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@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR
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post #55 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 03:01 PM
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Probably some of Docs soybeans .......

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post #56 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
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@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR
LOL--actually soy is in practically all of the foods I've fed my dogs over the year--they didn't care--they think wheat and corn are OK too. But since they get some of what ever I'm making for dinner they all think that what ever I hand them (lettuce, cabbage, cucumber peels, ends of zuccini's, apple cores and peels, bits of tomatoes, carrots, celery (although some of the dogs didn't like the leaf ends)--etc--I'm not terribly concerned that they might become vegans.

I can't remember why I didn't even try the Savor line (a vet was the one who told me about it)--I vaguely remember comparing ingredients and I think (maybe) that the actual amount of salmon was greater in the Focus than in the Savor.

Who knows--this weather really cracks me up--it's like being in South Dakota at my grandmothers during the summer when I was kid.

ABTLH ooops thought I was on the chicken thread--dobebug

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post #57 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 11:27 AM
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There is an excellent blog post from a veterinary nutritionist addressing the FDA update. You can read it here: https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com...zun0QINi1Tk6CU

The whole blog post is very worth reading. She does advise that we don't need to panic, you may not need to rush and change your dog's food, but she also nicely summarizes what we do and do not know. The reasons I've *personally* chosen to switch to a WSAVA food are really illustrated by her two quotes below:


"Meeting minimum nutrient levels on paper are not enough. Pet food manufacturers must know or hire knowledgeable individuals with an understanding for how nutrient level vary in the raw materials, how they are affected by other ingredients or nutrients in the mix, the effect of cooking (or lack of cooking) on nutrient stability and bioavailability, and the wide range of variability in genetics and food intakes in the dog population. Basing diet formulations on market trends rather than nutritional science is a recipe for disaster."

"At the end of the day diet-associated DCM is a preventable condition and manufacturers who are selling foods that are labeled as “complete and balanced” have an ethical and fiduciary obligation to meet that label promise. Having an idea about pet foods, being a dog trainer/breeder/owner, inheriting a family pet-food business, and/or writing a book about dogs and cats (even if it’s about food) does not qualify a person to know what it takes to keep a large population of dogs and cats healthy. No free passes because you didn’t know what you didn’t know, no matter the sincerity, especially if it ends up with disease and death."
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post #58 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 12:36 PM
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So... 9th feeding into McCoy's Pro Plan transition. All is well. Absolutely no issues. He thinks the new kibble is a treat! LOL

But that has always been McCoy... Cast iron stomach with a non-discriminating appetite.

Just "FEED ME"!

John
Portland OR
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post #59 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.
Yup

McCoy is my first dog that has ever been fed grain free. He actually was fed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy until he was 14 months.

Neither diet caused any issues.

Over the years, our only dog to have died from DCM related causes, was never fed a grain free diet. Also, I have never had a dog with food related allergies.

John
Portland OR
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post #60 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 10:31 AM
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So confused

I have been reading this thread and really appreciate everyone's contribution.
I planned on feeding Orijen to my new puppy (I don't have yet) but now I am completely confused.

It seems I have to choose the lesser of the evils...controversial ingredients, possible links to DMC, other ingredients leading to possible organ damage or cancer, and lastly cost of the food.

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

I just want a dry kibble that is mostly good for my precious dog, yet not so expensive I need a second job!
(homemade is not an option for the most part because I hate cooking but willing to add some things like eggs, veggies, etc. and raw is out... the thought of raw makes me nauseated)

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/...dients-review/
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