Bumps and hairloss on new dobie - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Question Bumps and hairloss on new dobie

So we rescued a 5 year old fawn/red female dobie from the animal shelter. When we picked her up her skin was in bad shape. It is very dry with bumps and a lot of hair loss along her back and some on her shoulders. She was treated at the animal shelter with antibiotics and they told us she did have fleas and it looks like flea allergies because of where it was on her body. The shelter said its hard to say since she was picked up as a stray and there is no history. She was again checked out by our local vet who ran a thyroid test that came back normal. Again we were told its hard to say because there is no history. We started her on flax seed oil and now will be switching to salmon oil in hopes to we see some noticeable improvement with the salmon oil. We've had her for about 2.5 weeks and not seeing much improvement at all. I realize that it take time to grow back hair and for her bumps to go away but now the question comes up is how long do we wait to see some noticeable improvement?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 07:59 AM
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Did they run a full thyroid panelnor just the t4?

We're the results low normal? Or normal? Some dobes who fall in the normal/low normal range do require thyroid support. However I would run a full thyroid panel with interpretation.
The other question is possibly a staph infection.
As a fawn the dog would be prone to CDA (colour dilution alopecia)
If you're going to add oil plant oils are not beneficial to dogs, I would recommend krill oil over salmon.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 12:51 PM
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I would definitely have your own vet give her a check up. She may need a longer course of antibiotics...it could be something like a staph infection rather than a reaction to fleas (and, if fleas, be sure they are gone!). Staph can be tough to get rid of.

A full check up doesn't hurt. Since you don't know what she was eating, she may have a poor coat from poor diet, too. It can take time to adjust to better food. Fish oil and a quality food can make a big difference once any medical issues are addressed.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 01:54 PM
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Both dilute colors (blue and fawn) often, as adults, have some degree of balding due to CDA (color dilute alopecia as SieYa mentioned). In a well kept Dobe this would usually only mean hair loss and not skin involvement.

But since she had fleas it's entirely possible that the bumps and hair loss were related to flea bite allergies which are common. So I'd make it a point to make sure she's on flea prevention (my preference is monthly application of AdvantageII).

The bumps could be pyoderma, folliculitis or staph--and that could take awhile to clear and may take a longer course of antibiotics ( Meadowcat mentions this).

Good food should improve her skin condition and if you are going to add a source of Omega 3 fatty acids, I'd use a fish oil rather than flax seed oil. Flax seed oil to be usable for a dog needs an additional step before a dog can process it and a fair number of dogs are actually allergic to flax seed oil. Salmon oil is fine, so is krill oil but actually plain old fish oil where the source is small fish, low on the scale of fish (like menhaden, anchovies, sardines) work very well. And if you are giving fish oil you should (unless whatever you are giving already has vitamin E added) also give Vitamin E. The ratio should be 1,000 mg of fish oil to 200 iu vitamin E. Too much fish oil will cause diarrhea in some dogs so I start them on one 1,000 mg gel cap of fish oil (and get it and the vitamin E gel caps from Costco) with each meal and one 400 iu gel cap of vitamin E with one of those meals) Almost all vitamin E comes as 400 iu gel caps.

Also, yogert, cottage cheese and eggs are good additives to improve skin condition.

Good luck but don't be terribly surprised if her skin clears up but she doesn't grow all of the hair back. The hair loss areas are those common to CDA hair loss.

Last edited by dobebug; 09-14-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Ok. I she went to the vent and did another course of antibiotics and steroids as well as supplements of salmon oil. Her skin is now still somewhat dry but 99.5 percent of the bumps are gone and most of her undercoat has grown back. The next question is how long will it take for here entire coat to grow out....I did a quick good search and looks like a couple months to a year. Is that about right ? It sound about right to me.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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And here they are after being outside on a warm So Cal day. I just noticed in the picture you can see how the under coat has come in but the top coat has not
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 09:13 AM
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My Hoss got bumps....they would get big..break.....then scale...took him to a Vet that specializes in skin. Yes a dog dermatoligist....this is what I learned... he taught me to use Chlorhexidine shampoos..1 time per week...(no more than 1 time per week ...was advised to be careful with this shampoo more is not better!!) in addition as I am shampooing..petting ..etc.... to always move in the direction of the hair growth.....when drying your dog or maybe as visitors pet your dog they might be tempted to give the dog the ultimate back scratch..back and forth movements..was taught not good for Hoss's Folliculitis....to avoid trama to the hair follicles was taught to pet or dry with the grain of the hairs versus against the grain of the hair follicles.
Was using benedryl when I initially went to the Vet ...but Doc discontinued ..he suggested over the counter Zyrtec.....he advised there is an additional ingredient in Zyrtec that would help that was not in the benedryl.
Hoss is 110 pounds so his dose for Zyrtec was 1 pill 2 times per day.
So between the Chlorhexidine shampoo, Zyrtec, and respecting his hair follicles he is now in good shape. Was advised dogs moisturize from the inside out so Krill oil is an excellent suggestion. Wishing you the best.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SieYa View Post
Did they run a full thyroid panelnor just the t4?

We're the results low normal? Or normal? Some dobes who fall in the normal/low normal range do require thyroid support. However I would run a full thyroid panel with interpretation.
The other question is possibly a staph infection.
As a fawn the dog would be prone to CDA (colour dilution alopecia)
If you're going to add oil plant oils are not beneficial to dogs, I would recommend krill oil over salmon.
SieYa -- I have read many of your reply's and they are always top of the line ! I do have one question -- Are you a Vet Tech or Vet ? OR is it you know a lot because you have seen a lot ?

Ken
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THERUIZFAMILY View Post
Ok. I she went to the vent and did another course of antibiotics and steroids as well as supplements of salmon oil. Her skin is now still somewhat dry but 99.5 percent of the bumps are gone and most of her undercoat has grown back. The next question is how long will it take for here entire coat to grow out....I did a quick good search and looks like a couple months to a year. Is that about right ? It sound about right to me.
Dobes don't really have undercoats--what your girl grew back is probably as good as it'll get.

CDA along with out and out hair loss can and often does alter the texture and appearance of the hair when the loss was due to something like flea bite allergy plus pyoderma/folliculitis/staph.

How long it takes hair (any kind of hair) to grow back tends to depend on the season of the year--hairs are replaced faster during semi-annual shed seasons (spring and fall). So six months would be normal for total regrowth of hair.

How long it might take for that hair to look as good and as normal as it can would depend on diet and general health--that can take up to a year.

Read DianeHess' post on her dog Hoss and his treatment--it's very good advice for any short coated, single coated dog but particularly any Doberman who is either of the two dilute colors--fawn or blue.

It is basically what I and other owners of dilute dogs have recommended on these forums for years now. My fawn dog is allergic to something that is around from late spring to when the fall rains start--he's been on very minimal doses of benedryl since he turned two--it worked for him and we never had to try anything else.

I use a Chlorhexidine shampoo on my fawn too--but he gets bathed infrequently--maybe two or three times a year--but I don't scrub his skin with curry type devices, or my fingernails--I work shampoo in with the tips of my fingers and apply it diluted on a sponge or wash cloth and both bathe and rinse in cold water. I wipe him down the direction of the hair growth once and let him air dry. He is the only Dobe I use a conditioner on--and I thin that down to 1 part conditioner to 25 or 30 parts of water and use a spray bottle to apply it to him when he's wet. His hair is a different texture than my black or red dogs and the conditioner makes a difference--his coat feels smoother.

And I don't let people scratch him (I still don't know why everyone likes to scratch dogs back especially--very bad for the skin and on dilutes tends to break the hair),

To some fairly significant degree how much hair loss is unavoidable with the dilute colors--genetics plays a big part. If fawn or blue relatives have retained good coats it's more likely that your fawn dog will (but you don't have a way to know about relatives since this is a rescue). My fawn came from a breeders whose occasional dilute dogs did retain pretty decent coats through their lives. And at nearly 12 my fawn dog has a very full coat--not as perfect as it was when he was 2 or 3 but my black dogs coats weren't as perfect at 9 and 10 as they were as young adults either.

Good luck...

Last edited by dobebug; 10-16-2017 at 01:42 PM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 02:12 PM
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The only other thing that I have used.....IF ...I have already completed the other tasks is ...if dry skin still noted and pup still itching I place coconut oil on my wets hands and gently stroke it in........go light light light on the oil .....apply when inside the house..it will sink in ........coats will shine beautifully. If you think you applied to much ...just wipe down with cool cloth following the grain of the hair follicles. Learned my lesson with applying coconut oil to Hoss outside the house around sand/dirt.......not sure what I was thinking that day !!! LOL
Anyway once the coconut oil sinks in (30 minutes or so) should be good till the next grooming......
Fed him coconut oil for a few weeks....VET had a fit..told me coconut to high in calorie for his consumption....although friend to friend it does make their breath smell real nice. Hoss smelled just like a fresh Pina Colada !!!
But now Krill regularly for his dinner time desert.....but... just a little coconut for him to eat ..once in a while for a special treat ....
FYI coconut oil good to use on our skin also.....
Oh how I love to spoil my dog.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 08:02 PM
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My Mabel recently went through this issue. It came out of nowhere. She always had a fabulous coat that was admired by everyone. I have a fantastic vet and even she was willing to admit that she hadn't seen anything like it. She ran skin scrapes, full thyroids, full blood panel, everything came back negative. She sought advice from the head of the veterinary program at the university of Missouri and together they decided to put her on a heavy dose of antibiotics. Her bumps started to go away but as soon as we took her off the meds the bumps immediately came back. It was around this time that I was starting to feed Mabel a full raw diet. And much to the surprise of everyone, the raw food alone cleared the issue right up. Hair came back and her coat is better than every and the bumps are completely gone without the use of meds. I wasn't even trying to fix her skin issue with the switch to raw but it all worked out that way. Still don't know exactly what was going on and it could certainly be a different issue than what you are experiencing, but it might be worth a shot to try switching to raw.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-23-2017, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advise everyone....The vet prescribed a medicated shampoo with Chlorhexidine and an anti fungal with hydroxyzine pills for the itching. If that doesn't do it then next step would be diet change to most likely raw. I think we are on the right track and the right plan.....

Thanks again
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