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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Hyperthyroidism?

So Draco has been having a few problems lately. He's become reactive at our apartments yard (see thread https://www.dobermantalk.com/general-...ppy-brain.html) even though when he calms down and I let him play with the dog after a while he seems fine. He's also being reactive against cats and he was very well socialized with cats when I first got him as a rescue at 4 months.
He hasn't gained weight since he was 6 months old and he eats like a maniac.
I took him to the vet before for a check up and everything came out alright.

He's been shedding a lot for the last 3 weeks though, to the point that his chest is half bald by now and when I took him to the vet last week they said it was allergies and gave him a shot for it. But he keeps getting balder towards the neck and found a bump on his side this morning.
I did some reading and I'm afraid he might need a thyroid check again? It would explain his sudden fear of everything and nervousness.

Here's a few pictures of his chest
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 10:49 PM
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You probably mean hypothyroid (too little vs too much). It can't hurt to have a test done. Also without knowing his background, it could be his personality too. He's hitting maturity also and sometimes things change a bit; and they also can go through fear periods)

It's not uncommon for puppies to like cats but as adults not to like them.

I do agree something is up with the hair and I'd push for more answers.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 08:38 AM
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Do you have the results from a previous thyroid check?

Some vets just do T4, not always helpful. I'd have a full panel done to get a full grasp on what is going on.


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 10:37 AM
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Interesting....he's got an assortment of symptoms that don't actually match.

The lack of weight gain isn't typical of hypothyroidism but rather of hyperthyroidism which is actually fairly rare in dogs but common in cats.

The hair loss is sort of in the wrong place for hypothyroid type hair loss which usually shows up first on the backs of the ears but can show up anywhere. What it does look like though is a skin infection (similar to folliculitis) which I had show up in a 10 month old puppy several years ago--my vet looked at it and it didn't look like demodex (and I didn't think it did either) but did a scrape and found nothing. Had me start bathing the dog in a 4% chlorhexidine shampoo (prescription shampoo)--twice a week for two weeks, once a week for another four weeks. By the end of the six weeks of medicated bathes he had stopped shedding, the area on his neck and chest was filling in with new hair.

The attitude toward other dogs and cats may be a side effect of growing up--but it could be something related to thyroid function--I've had dogs who had none of the common side effects and know of dogs who had an array of side effects that are not terribly common in hypothyroid cases. I'd have a full panel done if you haven't already done so.

Is he actually 11 months or is he older?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 01:43 PM
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I would defenitely insist with the vet with regards to his fur, certainly not normal, and if it was allergy related wouldn't it be a loss overall? Unless he is going on tall grasses that rub his chest area.

My poodle has a variety of allergies at this time of year, rashes, swollen areas, coughing...and though previous years when he got really swollen the vet gave him a shot and every day I had to cream him, but now I have Keon so that he won't lick the cream, the poodle is on allergy pills, but I only give half of one in the days that the he shows more signs.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
You probably mean hypothyroid (too little vs too much). It can't hurt to have a test done. Also without knowing his background, it could be his personality too. He's hitting maturity also and sometimes things change a bit; and they also can go through fear periods)

It's not uncommon for puppies to like cats but as adults not to like them.

I do agree something is up with the hair and I'd push for more answers.
I meant to say hyperthyroid because he really can't gain any weight and he's hyper even after 5 hours of running in the woods with other dogs. Like I can see he's tired because he sits down but then in a second or two he will get up and start running around again with other dogs even with shaky legs.
He also has very loose stools and started peeing in the house even though he has been fine with going out three times a day for the last 4 months.

I really do hope it's a fear stage meshed with allergies of some sort but we will see after the blood test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SieYa View Post
Do you have the results from a previous thyroid check?

Some vets just do T4, not always helpful. I'd have a full panel done to get a full grasp on what is going on.
The vet should still have it, I'll ask them. Think it was a full panel test because I had asked for everything to be checked thyroids and all alike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Interesting....he's got an assortment of symptoms that don't actually match.

The lack of weight gain isn't typical of hypothyroidism but rather of hyperthyroidism which is actually fairly rare in dogs but common in cats.

The hair loss is sort of in the wrong place for hypothyroid type hair loss which usually shows up first on the backs of the ears but can show up anywhere. What it does look like though is a skin infection (similar to folliculitis) which I had show up in a 10 month old puppy several years ago--my vet looked at it and it didn't look like demodex (and I didn't think it did either) but did a scrape and found nothing. Had me start bathing the dog in a 4% chlorhexidine shampoo (prescription shampoo)--twice a week for two weeks, once a week for another four weeks. By the end of the six weeks of medicated bathes he had stopped shedding, the area on his neck and chest was filling in with new hair.

The attitude toward other dogs and cats may be a side effect of growing up--but it could be something related to thyroid function--I've had dogs who had none of the common side effects and know of dogs who had an array of side effects that are not terribly common in hypothyroid cases. I'd have a full panel done if you haven't already done so.

Is he actually 11 months or is he older?

He just turned 11 months last week. I hope it's a skin infection and not something that will stay with him forever but we will deal with whatever comes. He is shedding everywhere, like if I pull some hair off his back it comes off very easily and he wakes up in a pool of his own fur everyday.

I will ask the vet if he can come over for tests because last time we were there he was really stressed out which is also uncommon for him, he used to love the guys working there and he was playing around and kissing the cats there just last month. Last week he wouldn't leave my lap, if he did it was only to bark and launch at the cats he was kissing just a little while ago. The cats were all like "wut?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria1 View Post
I would defenitely insist with the vet with regards to his fur, certainly not normal, and if it was allergy related wouldn't it be a loss overall? Unless he is going on tall grasses that rub his chest area.

My poodle has a variety of allergies at this time of year, rashes, swollen areas, coughing...and though previous years when he got really swollen the vet gave him a shot and every day I had to cream him, but now I have Keon so that he won't lick the cream, the poodle is on allergy pills, but I only give half of one in the days that the he shows more signs.
There isn't any tall grass areas here so I doubt that's it. The vet said it might be because of the crate he sleeps in since I can't put a bed in there (he either eats it or pees on it) but whenever I check he always lays on his side or his back so it really doesn't make any sense why his chest would become balder instead.


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 03:36 PM
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If his hair is coming out like that I'd also suggest a skin scraping, and talk to the vet about the possibilities of mange. If his immune system is tanking that gives opportunistic bugs a chance to flourish.
The fact that he's tired and still active, I'd say normal. Tank at 11 months was an energizer bunny, he had no idea how to downshift if it wasn't night time. Some if not most out grow this almost hyper vigilant state.
3 times a day, his as his body changes and grows so will his bathroom habits. I think 3 times is a little unrealistic for going out.
Loose stool can be indicative of something going on. Either a food insensitivity, worms, or an imbalance somewhere in the body(gut).
If you had a full thyroid panel done, unless it was recently I would have it rechecked. Just my preference as there seems to be a lot going on with him right now.
What kind of food are you feeding? How often do you feed? Does he always have soft stool or does it get progressively worse as the day goes on?


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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 03:36 PM
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Is he neutered? I couldn't get Whiskey at a good weight until he was neutered. That's pretty common.

ETA: If he often runs 5 hours in the woods, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not gaining weight. That's a very high level of activity that would burn sooooooo many calories.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 04:46 PM
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You know what? If this were my dog I'd get a referral to a vet dermatologist/allergist.

Even thyroid issues wouldn't account for hair loss like that.

Have they done a complete blood panel (senior panels are more complete than those for younger dogs)? If they haven't I'd want a complete blood panel and I'd want to see that complete thyroid panel you had done (how long ago was that?) and I'd want to sit down with the vet and discuss every item on the thyroid panel.

Hair loss isn't a common side effect of hyperthyroidism AND hyperthyroidism is so rare in dogs as to be almost non-existent. Most cases are related to over supplementation of cases of hypothyroidism.

But there are other things that can wack out a dogs thyroid levels and I kind of think that's what you need to be looking at now. There are also vet endocrinologists and with what you've added here it sounds like it might be an endocrine issue.

Last edited by dobebug; 05-10-2014 at 04:51 PM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SieYa View Post
If his hair is coming out like that I'd also suggest a skin scraping, and talk to the vet about the possibilities of mange. If his immune system is tanking that gives opportunistic bugs a chance to flourish.
The fact that he's tired and still active, I'd say normal. Tank at 11 months was an energizer bunny, he had no idea how to downshift if it wasn't night time. Some if not most out grow this almost hyper vigilant state.
3 times a day, his as his body changes and grows so will his bathroom habits. I think 3 times is a little unrealistic for going out.
Loose stool can be indicative of something going on. Either a food insensitivity, worms, or an imbalance somewhere in the body(gut).
If you had a full thyroid panel done, unless it was recently I would have it rechecked. Just my preference as there seems to be a lot going on with him right now.
What kind of food are you feeding? How often do you feed? Does he always have soft stool or does it get progressively worse as the day goes on?
Thanks, I'll ask the vet about skin scraping. How many times a day you think I should take him out?
It's been about 2 months since his blood check so I'll have him rechecked.

I feed him Acana puppy, two times a day. He mostly gets loose stools at least once a day but not always, even his firmer stools when he first wakes up aren't as firm as a normal dogs would be though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
Is he neutered? I couldn't get Whiskey at a good weight until he was neutered. That's pretty common.

ETA: If he often runs 5 hours in the woods, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not gaining weight. That's a very high level of activity that would burn sooooooo many calories.

He was neutered when I took him in at 4 months.
He only gets a free run for that long on the weekends, we mostly just play fetch for about an hour everyday to avoid puppy injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
You know what? If this were my dog I'd get a referral to a vet dermatologist/allergist.

Even thyroid issues wouldn't account for hair loss like that.

Have they done a complete blood panel (senior panels are more complete than those for younger dogs)? If they haven't I'd want a complete blood panel and I'd want to see that complete thyroid panel you had done (how long ago was that?) and I'd want to sit down with the vet and discuss every item on the thyroid panel.

Hair loss isn't a common side effect of hyperthyroidism AND hyperthyroidism is so rare in dogs as to be almost non-existent. Most cases are related to over supplementation of cases of hypothyroidism.

But there are other things that can wack out a dogs thyroid levels and I kind of think that's what you need to be looking at now. There are also vet endocrinologists and with what you've added here it sounds like it might be an endocrine issue.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look around for a reputable dermatologist.
They have done a complete blood panel but it's been 2 months since then. I'll have the vet come over for those tests on monday and to talk over things you've mentioned.
I've talked to a couple of vets over the phone and one of them told me it would be wise to check his adrenal glands too since it's mostly common for neutered dogs.


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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 03:57 PM
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Good luck--keep us posted here on the future vet checks and testing. The symptoms are odd enough that I think you need to keep going. Stools that are always soft, very soft or just plain sloppy are a fairly common symptom of hypothyroidism--but unfortunately they are also symptoms of a whole bunch of other things as well.
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