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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Raised feeding or not?????

Hi,

Due to a thread from Icerbone abut poor Kaiser and Bloat!!! This has been mentioned about raised feeding being a risk factor. We feed Max raised to his chest height. Is this really increasing the risk?? Our breeder told us it was good for his posture. What should we do.

Jason, Emily and MAXIMUS
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusuwho View Post
Hi,

Due to a thread from Icerbone abut poor Kaiser and Bloat!!! This has been mentioned about raised feeding being a risk factor. We feed Max raised to his chest height. Is this really increasing the risk?? Our breeder told us it was good for his posture. What should we do.
We use a raised feeder as well, though, it doesn't seem to matter to Quincy. He really prefers to eat kibble strewn over the floor as if he's sniffing hunting, but we prefer it in a bowl for cleanliness reasons.
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:47 PM
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Just had LAW to the vet Monday night and he told us to keep him fed low - no raised feeders. He told us also do not allow him to drink a bowl of water for one hour after he eats - due to causing bloat. I had NO idea what that was until reading the posts.

The vet told us to first let him drink when he gets out of his crate, after exercise or before eating, but always wait to feed but not right after drinking.

I always put food and water down together - but he advised not too with larger breed dogs.
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pammy1022 View Post
Just had LAW to the vet Monday night and he told us to keep him fed low - no raised feeders. He told us also do not allow him to drink a bowl of water for one hour after he eats - due to causing bloat. I had NO idea what that was until reading the posts.

The vet told us to first let him drink when he gets out of his crate, after exercise or before eating, but always wait to feed but not right after drinking.

I always put food and water down together - but he advised not too with larger breed dogs.
Thanks for that info. We don't control water in that way atall. He drinks when he wants to drink!

Exactly what happens when bloat happens? Is it the stomach twisting causing blood flow cut off???

Jason, Emily and MAXIMUS
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pammy1022 View Post
Just had LAW to the vet Monday night and he told us to keep him fed low - no raised feeders. He told us also do not allow him to drink a bowl of water for one hour after he eats - due to causing bloat. I had NO idea what that was until reading the posts.

The vet told us to first let him drink when he gets out of his crate, after exercise or before eating, but always wait to feed but not right after drinking.

I always put food and water down together - but he advised not too with larger breed dogs.

Interesting. We too have always kept fresh water out all the time and its there with the food at feeding time. We feed twice a day. And Quincy's pattern after eating kibble is to drink. He doesn't drink a whole bowl or anything. But thinking about it, if you feed dry kibble, it goes in the stomach, then when the dog sucks down a bunch of water behind it, the kibble will expand in the stomach. Maybe it's better to serve moistened kibble that is already starting to expand a little outside the dog. I don't know.
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusuwho View Post
Hi,

Due to a thread from Icerbone abut poor Kaiser and Bloat!!! This has been mentioned about raised feeding being a risk factor. We feed Max raised to his chest height. Is this really increasing the risk?? Our breeder told us it was good for his posture. What should we do.
I think this is a decision everyone has to make for themselves. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been any documented proof that using a raised feeder reduces the risk of bloat. It's just been an informal theory with no documentation to support it. The Purdue study suggests that using a raised feeder increases that risk factor over 100 times.

The only time I use a raised feeder is when a dog has a medical problem that makes it appropriate..one was a dog with DCM, another a dog with megaesophagus. For the most part, I think nature doesn't provide that many raised feeders, it's an unnatural position to eat for the average dog. I've ALWAYS felt that way, even before the Purdue study was released.



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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 04:15 PM
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I don't use a raised feeder, I feed using stainless steels bowls on ground level.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 04:57 PM
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I have always used raised feeders, it just seems more comfortable for the dog, but that's just me
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 04:58 PM
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Stainless steel bowls on the ground. Although the only food that sees the bowl is his breakfast as it is ground Dinner is on the kitchen floor tile.

Oh - water on the ground all the time.
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
Stainless steel bowls on the ground. Although the only food that sees the bowl is his breakfast as it is ground Dinner is on the kitchen floor tile.

Oh - water on the ground all the time.

wow glad to know im not the only one with this problem, Bane drips water everwhere and scatters his food. Although he picks it all up it drives my g/f nuts! Anyone else's dobie do this?
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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 05:04 PM
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I agree with Chaos, I've always used an elevated feeder, just looks easier for them to eat
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all for your comments. It seems the jury's out on this one

Jason, Emily and MAXIMUS
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 12:24 AM
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Buddy eats from a elevated feeder too one side water one side food bowl same feeder I fed my Bouvier"s from for 20 years.Bouvier"s have been known to bloat too any big deep chested dog can bloat even little dogs can bloat have heard of a Welsh Corgi died from bloat. Even have hear of Dachshunds bloating can't get much lower to the ground being a Dachshund.I think they still do not know why it happens I feed twice a day am & pm not large amounts of food, make sure no running around after eating about 2 hours.All you can do is what you think is right for your dog and hope for the best and be very observant of your dog.
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 08:16 AM
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All of our dogs have been fed lower to the ground but since this is my first ever larger dog I was suprised as we went out and bought a feeder that is raised for him ..... thinking it would be better for digestive purposes. Now I don't know.

I think we'll keep the bowls down and I am still watching the water intake anyway due to puppy hood.... however, I'm giving him more since others on here advised me they need more than what I thought I was allowing him to drink. Especially with the weather, he needs his water when he goes out and runs around!

It's going to be 94 here today in PA! So keep your doggies cool!!! LOL
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanesDaddy View Post
wow glad to know im not the only one with this problem, Bane drips water everwhere and scatters his food. Although he picks it all up it drives my g/f nuts! Anyone else's dobie do this?
OMG ! I just thought Kole was a slob!
But yes, he scatteres food everywhere, he will even carry a mouth full of kibble in the living room ,spit it out and just pick a couple up and eat them! WTH? lol
Thanks for asking this ..
I feed mine in a stainless bowl, on floor,give fresh bowls of water through out the day . Once he is good and house trained I plan on a 2 gal auto waterer'
Worked well for my GS for 10 + yrs.
I used to feed him(GS) with an auto feeder also, but he gained too much weight vet said, bad for his hips as he got older.
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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 04:42 AM
 
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I have been feeding calvin in stainless steel bowl on the ground. I have heard that raised helps with gas. But, also have heard about the study that says raised increases risk of bloat... is there anything else to reduce the dobergas?? haha
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 08:14 AM
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Yes Bane- Wyatt makes a big mess when he eats or drinks.. its like his mouth has HOLES in it and just leaks out! haha
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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 09:14 AM
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I feed Copper in a raised bowl. When I first got him, he was thin and ate his food really fast. After a while when he put on weight and realized he would be getting food on a regular basis he slowed down to a fairly leisurely pace.

After reading about the dog that bloated, I tried putting the bowl on the floor. For whatever reason he started to eat faster than he usually does. This worried me so I put the bowl back up. So my dilemma is let him eat raised and slow or put it on the floor and hope he eventually slows down

Brenda and Copper
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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 09:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanesDaddy View Post
wow glad to know im not the only one with this problem, Bane drips water everwhere and scatters his food. Although he picks it all up it drives my g/f nuts! Anyone else's dobie do this?
You're not alone, my boy Baron goes after his kibble so enthusiastically that he has it in a 1 ft. radius around his bowl. Then he plays bloodhound/Hoover and hunts down and vacuums it all back up.

As far as feeding it has always been bowls and water on the ground and given at the same time. Never had a problem...ever with bloat. We've done this with everything we've owned from Rotties to APBT to various hunting breeds to your every day mutts. In nature you very seldom see a raised feeding area, it's always ripping chunks out of a carcass on the ground. I would actually think a raised dish to be unhealthy as it would allow too much to be wolfed down with no effort...jmo

Now I don't feed before doing any real exercise so as to not give bloat a chance. I'll feed after they get done and a bit settled.

Last edited by crash97; 07-18-2008 at 09:39 AM.
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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 09:49 AM
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This has been discussed before: https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ter-bowls.html

Epidemiology
Epidemiology
Quote:
The study confirmed previous reports of increased risks of GDV associated with increasing age, having a first-degree relative with GDV, and having a raised food bowl.

Due to studies being shown that raised bowls increase the risk of bloat, I feed Red from ground level. Unless there is a medical reason to feed from raised bowls (such as Wobblers, DCM, megaesophagus, etc as Murreydobe said), I think feeding from ground level is safest. Why increase the risk if you don't have to?



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post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermandude View Post
is there anything else to reduce the dobergas?? haha
I'd try another food. If a dog consistently has gas, it's a pretty good sign whatever they're eating isn't agreeing with them.



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post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns View Post
This has been discussed before: https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ter-bowls.html

Epidemiology
Epidemiology



Due to studies being shown that raised bowls increase the risk of bloat, I feed Red from ground level. Unless there is a medical reason to feed from raised bowls (such as Wobblers, DCM, megaesophagus, etc as Murreydobe said), I think feeding from ground level is safest. Why increase the risk if you don't have to?

I haven't read the studies - maybe I need to - but just thinking about it, I dont' understand a link between the height of the food bowl and bloat. Bloat occurs in the stomach. The food/water has only one path to the stomach - through the mouth and down the esophagus. Does it really matter what angle the esophogus is during eating? eating lower towards the ground means the dog gets the food in his mouth and typically hoovers it up without lifting the head a lot to down the food. So the food is moved up/down the pipe - from the ground it has a higher hill to climb so to speak - maybe this slows it down? with a raised feeder, it seems the food has a shallower path to the stomach, maybe it gets their faster and starts gas/expansion faster? I don't know... again, I should read the study I guess.
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post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
I haven't read the studies - maybe I need to - but just thinking about it, I dont' understand a link between the height of the food bowl and bloat. Bloat occurs in the stomach. The food/water has only one path to the stomach - through the mouth and down the esophagus. Does it really matter what angle the esophogus is during eating? eating lower towards the ground means the dog gets the food in his mouth and typically hoovers it up without lifting the head a lot to down the food. So the food is moved up/down the pipe - from the ground it has a higher hill to climb so to speak - maybe this slows it down? with a raised feeder, it seems the food has a shallower path to the stomach, maybe it gets their faster and starts gas/expansion faster? I don't know... again, I should read the study I guess.
I think it has something to do with the dog gulping more air when the food is raised, therefore increasing the risk of bloat and torsion. (?) I dunno, I think I read that somewhere but I can't remember where.

Like someone else said, it's a personal choice on how you want to feed, but I have no reason to feed from a raised bowl and I'm sure as heck not going to argue with the scientific studies that have been done and tempt fate



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post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 03:41 PM
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I've read the studies too...... and I still feed mine from a raised feeder. Correlation is not causation. However, when clients ask me, I tell them that current research indicates that feeding from a raised position is associated with increased risk of bloat. However, if they ask me what I do.... maybe I'm just lazy? LOL

Bottom line, read the info for yourself and make an educated decision you're happy with! :biggrin55:

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post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-20-2010, 11:49 AM
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The technical name for bloat is "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" ("GDV"). Bloating of the stomach is often related to swallowed air (although food and fluid can also be present). It usually happens when there's an abnormal accumulation of air, fluid, and/or foam in the stomach ("gastric dilatation"). Stress can be a significant contributing factor also. Bloat can occur with or without "volvulus" (twisting). As the stomach swells, it may rotate 90 to 360, twisting between its fixed attachments at the esophagus (food tube) and at the duodenum (the upper intestine). The twisting stomach traps air, food, and water in the stomach. The bloated stomach obstructs veins in the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock, and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog.

Be prepared! Know in advance what you would do if your dog bloated.

Taken from: Bloat in Dogs

I found that website to be pretty helpful in finding out more about bloat. It also made me decide that bowls on the ground are IMO better than the raised bowls... If you love your companion and you put a leash on him/her before you go into a city for a walk, so they don't run into the street and get hit, then why would you knowingly give him/her a raised bowl (which causes them to have an increased air intake into their stomach) as to which it could cause them to get bloat?

My sunshine doesn't come from the skies,
It comes from the love in my dog's eyes.
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