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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Legit Breeder?

I've been interested in getting a male european doberman for quite some time now. I love the bigger size and overall look of them. I wouldn't have a specific purpose for my dog, besides being a buddy and running partner every night. I found some pups for sale on a classified ad. The sire seemed to be from champion lines(from what I've researched) and they don't mention much on the dam. Is it stupid to buy from this person?? I really don't want a pup that's going to have hereditary diseases. It's my worst fear when buying this breed. I posted the link below to the ad below, and if anyone has any suggestions on a better breeder in CA(preferably northern) please let me know. Thanks

AKC Doberman pinscher pups | Visalia | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 26541998
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 12:32 PM
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I'd keep looking...so many red flags and the pictures say enough for me.

As far as euro breeders in cali you have:

von landgrave
von luka
and
Incredible

they may not have exactly what you are looking for but two of three for sure are members here and all can help you find what you are looking for from a reputable breeder. (which is your only route if you want to get the healthiest pup possible)

Are you willing to ship? You'd probably like Ball'lavaro and Feverhaus in the New York Area.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobydobie View Post
I've been interested in getting a male european doberman for quite some time now. I love the bigger size and overall look of them. I wouldn't have a specific purpose for my dog, besides being a buddy and running partner every night. I found some pups for sale on a classified ad. The sire seemed to be from champion lines(from what I've researched) and they don't mention much on the dam. Is it stupid to buy from this person?? I really don't want a pup that's going to have hereditary diseases. It's my worst fear when buying this breed. I posted the link below to the ad below, and if anyone has any suggestions on a better breeder in CA(preferably northern) please let me know. Thanks

AKC Doberman pinscher pups | Visalia | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 26541998
pro tip: if they're listing on a website like kijiji, run far, far away.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 12:40 PM
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Something I said to myself while spending countless hours searching for a new dobie, "never give up what you want the most for what you want at the moment." If you want a healthy friend for a long time, do the research and don't stop till you find EXACTLY what you want.


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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 12:50 PM
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It's what the ad does not say that speaks the loudest. No mention of health testing. Dobermans are not a healthy breed, steer clear of any so-called breeder that makes no mention of testing.

That, and what falnfenix said.....no breeder worth their salt would ever sell on kijiji.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 01:01 PM
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Ignore anything that that pops up on puppyfind, kijiji, or craigslist like the plague.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2013, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info and feedback guys. I appreciate it.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 04:44 PM
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Just wanted to say, Euro dogs are not any bigger than American dogs...that's a myth. Anyone who's breeding "large" or "supersize" or "Warlock" Dobermans is someone to be avoided.

You may find it helpful to read through this thread on how to evaluate breeders: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...new-folks.html

I would also take a read through this: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...formation.html

And this may be helpful, too: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html

If you let us know where you are located we can probably help you find a quality breeder.


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for all the great info! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. If you have any recommendations for breeders in this area that would be great! So there really is no difference in American Dobermans and European Dobermans? I'm not anywhere near as knowledgeable as most of you guys so I'm open to all suggestions and advice. It just seems that most of the so called "Euro" Dobermans I have seen are bigger than those that claim theirs are "American". I could really care less whether my pup is "American" or "Euro", I just like the look of the more muscular Dobermans. Would you guys say that Dobermans are naturally not supposed to be muscular, and it would be better to get one of the leaner ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Just wanted to say, Euro dogs are not any bigger than American dogs...that's a myth. Anyone who's breeding "large" or "supersize" or "Warlock" Dobermans is someone to be avoided.

You may find it helpful to read through this thread on how to evaluate breeders: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...new-folks.html

I would also take a read through this: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...formation.html

And this may be helpful, too: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html

If you let us know where you are located we can probably help you find a quality breeder.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 06:25 PM
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We have a Euro and 3 American bred and while the Euro is slightly taller, he is not abnormally tall. He is somewhat more substantial, sort of larger boned with a bigger head, and his chest is deeper.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobydobie View Post
Thanks so much for all the great info! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. If you have any recommendations for breeders in this area that would be great! So there really is no difference in American Dobermans and European Dobermans? I'm not anywhere near as knowledgeable as most of you guys so I'm open to all suggestions and advice. It just seems that most of the so called "Euro" Dobermans I have seen are bigger than those that claim theirs are "American". I could really care less whether my pup is "American" or "Euro", I just like the look of the more muscular Dobermans. Would you guys say that Dobermans are naturally not supposed to be muscular, and it would be better to get one of the leaner ones?
There is a difference in looks, at least somewhat, but they are about the same size. It's fine to prefer the look of Euro bred Dobes, but it may be harder to find a good breeder because Euro lines are a bit trendy among backyard breeders. If you haven't had a Doberman before, and decide to go with a Euro look, I would look for someone breeding from European show lines rather than working lines, because working lines will probably be too much for a first time owner.


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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 06:39 PM
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Incredible is in Santa Rosa
Von Landgraf is in Sacramento
Von Luka is in Riverbank (near Modesto)
Adlercrest is in Southern California

You can find their websites by googling the kennel name + dobermans.

If a litter is advertised on Kiiji, Craigs List or any of those, or even the local newspaper - stay away. If you can purchase the puppy from a website and pay for it using a credit card or PayPal - stay away.

For Euro Dobes, use the United Doberman Club as a referral source. Contact breeders listed there and if they don't have anything available, ask for a referral. More than likely you will need to get on a waiting list for a future litter. Most reputable breeders have puppies sold before the bitch is even bred.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I would look for someone breeding from European show lines rather than working lines, because working lines will probably be too much for a first time owner.
The working lines can be a little much even for a 5th time owner lol.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 07:17 PM
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You probably think euros are bigger because that's what all the puppymill type breeders and byb breeders push. The have long explanations for how the American doberman has been bred down in size and a bunch of other stuff that throws off on American breds. That is what they use to differentiate between the breeds because it sells puppies.

Dobermans are a medium sized breed. No doberman should ever be 125 lbs. When you read that, you know you're at a byb/puppymill site that breeds for profit and not in the best interest of the doberman breed.

Anytime you read about bigger and how American breds have been bred down in size, remember this 1929 and other standard in this thread.

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-standard.html

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone! I'm glad I came to this forum prior to getting a pup. You're advice has helped me a lot! Thank you!
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobydobie View Post
Thanks everyone! I'm glad I came to this forum prior to getting a pup. You're advice has helped me a lot! Thank you!
I'm in the same predicament as Scooby.

I've been searching for 2 years and I had run into familydobes which I then researched and found out from this site that avoiding this "breeder" would be the very best option.

I'm still currently looking since my last dog (a dalmation) was actually stolen. We had her napping outside when our gardeners decided to come and not notify us. They left the gate open and scared our dog (the lawn mower noise) and she took off. Called the shelters and put up signs but no one replied. I have a suspicion someone has kept her.

So now (about 3 years ago) I've started researching on the doberman and their health issues as well as different type of breed habits. Definitely found the breed to be incredibly fascinating.

I live in Southern California and I am willing to drive to neighboring states or even slightly further to pick up a dobe as well as talk with the owner.
I do a lot of outdoor sports so the dobe will be coming with me and I also do help out with Boy Scouts of America (On-site Medic) so there will be plenty of socializing at an early age.

I just need to know who are the surrounding breeders (preferably a euro since I really do love their look).

Here's another breeder I've found.. Spear-Bar Kennels in Tucson. I've read through their site and to my novice eye found that they are considered a "good" breeder.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:06 PM
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Never heard of spear-bar

however for euro kennels this is what you have in the US (not an entirely comprehensive list but it's got a bulk) and it's a mix of working and show line euro lines so do your diligence to find what will fit best for you, BUT don't be afraid to contact those who might not fit for suggestions.

Quote:
All in the US:
Adlercrest (california)
vom Koby Haus (new york)
vom Landgraf (california)
von Luka (california)
Incredible Dobermans (california)
Kansa Dobe (kansas)
Beja (new york)
LJ Kye (arkansas)
First Stryk (state unknown, phone number in central time zone)
Cara (new york)
Swift Run (kentucky)
von Moellerhof (the carolina area)
Wustensturm
de Tejas (texas)
von Hess (virginia)
Feverhaus (new york)
Pontifhaus (Tennessee)
vom Zenhof
Bell'Lavoro(new york)

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giccin View Post

Here's another breeder I've found.. Spear-Bar Kennels in Tucson. I've read through their site and to my novice eye found that they are considered a "good" breeder.
You may want to read this thread then
https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...r-kennels.html

What is it that you find makes them a good breeder? I don't see any titles as far as working or showing and they appear to just be breeding their own dogs together. This is not a kennel I'd use myself.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
You may want to read this thread then
https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...r-kennels.html

What is it that you find makes them a good breeder? I don't see any titles as far as working or showing and they appear to just be breeding their own dogs together. This is not a kennel I'd use myself.
The biggest two signs for me was that the dogs weren't crazy over priced and the other was that they don't breed as often as some would but again... I'm pretty amateur about this.

And thank you I just read that thread.

Time to do more research.

Last edited by Giccin; 04-10-2013 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Added more info
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
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The biggest two signs for me was that the dogs weren't crazy over priced...
A puppy from a good breeder is probably going to cost you about $2000, maybe a bit more. There may be some good breeders charging less, maybe $1500, but I think the average now is about $2K.


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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:24 PM
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A puppy from a good breeder is probably going to cost you about $2000, maybe a bit more. There may be some good breeders charging less, maybe $1500, but I think the average now is about $2K.
2K is what I was looking to spend, but in some e-mail replies I've got they were well over 3k.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:26 PM
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I've been interested in getting a male european doberman for quite some time now. I love the bigger size and overall look of them. I wouldn't have a specific purpose for my dog, besides being a buddy and running partner every night. I found some pups for sale on a classified ad. The sire seemed to be from champion lines(from what I've researched) and they don't mention much on the dam. Is it stupid to buy from this person?? I really don't want a pup that's going to have hereditary diseases. It's my worst fear when buying this breed. I posted the link below to the ad below, and if anyone has any suggestions on a better breeder in CA(preferably northern) please let me know. Thanks

AKC Doberman pinscher pups | Visalia | eBay Classifieds (Kijiji) | 26541998
I did not go this route but Lorna was definitely on my short list of breeders. As stated above, she is in California

Her website says their is plans for an early 2013 litter:

Link: Home

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:27 PM
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Just wanted to say, Euro dogs are not any bigger than American dogs...that's a myth. Anyone who's breeding "large" or "supersize" or "Warlock" Dobermans is someone to be avoided.

You may find it helpful to read through this thread on how to evaluate breeders: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...new-folks.html

I would also take a read through this: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...formation.html

And this may be helpful, too: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html

If you let us know where you are located we can probably help you find a quality breeder.
I almost feel like we need a myth-busting stickey.

Euro Dobes vs. American Dobes: Truth and Reality

Also covering: Warlock, King, "Superior Size" etc.

I mean I know we have a what to look for in a reputable breeder thread but I feel like some things need to be made more head on and obvious.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Giccin View Post
2K is what I was looking to spend, but in some e-mail replies I've got they were well over 3k.
Have you read these?

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...new-folks.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...t-website.html

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giccin View Post
2K is what I was looking to spend, but in some e-mail replies I've got they were well over 3k.
I recommend contacting Erynn at Von Luka Dobermans. She's in CA, and she is very helpful. You can find her email on her website or you can contact her here - her user name is workingk9s. She can probably direct you to some reputable breeders in your area.


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