Important announcement re: posting about breeders - Page 3 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #51 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:14 AM
Sea Hag
 
Murreydobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,933

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Murreydobe's Gallery
Thanks: 3,083
Thanked 34,683 Times in 7,941 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
I have to say I can see where monicaei and brw1982 are coming from in those posts, I have seen more than a few posts which insinuated that because a poster is not a breeder, they are not qualified to give an opinion on someone's breeding decisions.
In many cases, it *is* true, tho. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is what it is. There are a lot of subtlties involved, and sometimes it takes a little more time to come to a greater level of understanding.

I've been kicking around the dog world for over 30 years, and I can tell you my opinions about a lot of things have changed dramatically over that time period. What once might have seemed so obvious doesn't seem quite so true anymore in a lot of cases.

To me, the most "dangerous" period of all is when people are about 5 years into learning about a breed. I *wish* I knew as much about dobermans as I did then. I had it all figured out !



Murreydobe is offline  
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Murreydobe For This Useful Post:
Asmit (07-30-2012), AuraDobe (07-30-2012), Australdi (07-30-2012), brw1982 (07-30-2012), dobedream (07-30-2012), Dobiewankanobi (07-30-2012), feverone (08-01-2012), hjgrl (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012), latere (02-06-2013), lelise (07-30-2012), Marieldobes (07-30-2012), robinb (07-30-2012), wantsaDobe (07-30-2012)
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:18 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I wanted to post a clarification about this thread. The opening post is not just from me, it was posted on behalf of the entire mod team. I realized I wasn't clear about that in the first post (and will edit it accordingly).
NOT FAIR! LOL. I want to go back and edit mine from time to time too. I think everyone knows it was from the mods as a group.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
post #53 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:30 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
Some of you are forgetting is the established reputable breeders almost always have far more qualified people wanting a puppy than puppies available. The breeders who have been at it for a while normally have several repeat buyers for any given litter as well, and those people are normally given some priority as they have proven track records. Tara was my last purchase and over half of her litter went to repeat buyers. Most reputable first-time breeders... breed their first litter as a co-breeding... with the established breeder so they also benefit from the established breeders contacts, referrals and repeat buyers.

Having owned this breed for over 40 years, in my opinion, if DT went away tomorrow, it would make little difference to the reputable breeders as far as placing puppies. I am not a breeder, just my perspective as an owner.
I agree with you. I know my breeder always has a waiting list. I had to wait a year and a half to get my first dog. After that, since I have stayed in constant communication with her (and now on my 6th of her breedings), I believe she will always have a dog for me if she has an upcoming litter and I will still drive 2400 miles round trip for one. She had a litter about 3 weeks ago, 6 females and one male. She's keeping two, maybe three of the females to see how they do and the others are going to repeat owners who have had her dogs for years.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
Marieldobes (07-30-2012), robinb (07-30-2012)
Advertisement
 
post #54 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:41 AM
Alpha
 
Amelia_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,944
Dogs Name: Aspen, Rupert, Saul, Nova & Tobey

Gallery Pics: 17
Visit Amelia_'s Gallery
Thanks: 6,508
Thanked 7,291 Times in 2,068 Posts
Images: 17
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murreydobe View Post
In many cases, it *is* true, tho. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is what it is. There are a lot of subtlties involved, and sometimes it takes a little more time to come to a greater level of understanding.

I've been kicking around the dog world for over 30 years, and I can tell you my opinions about a lot of things have changed dramatically over that time period. What once might have seemed so obvious doesn't seem quite so true anymore in a lot of cases.

To me, the most "dangerous" period of all is when people are about 5 years into learning about a breed. I *wish* I knew as much about dobermans as I did then. I had it all figured out !
Well I don't think it is fair to call one persons opinion less valid than someone else's opinion, especially when those accusing others of being 'just pet owners' don't even know the poster's background AT ALL. Especially when things people are talking about are down to ethics, as I said before people's belief are different and there arnt right and wrong opinions.

I hate how people talk down to those younger or people who have been in the breed for less time than others. With the know-it-all attitude of presenting their opinions as facts. Firstly, nobody knows my background in dogs so for all anyone ere knows I could have been in boxers for the last 10+ years. Saying things like 'Shes been breeding longer than you have been alive' does not count for a thing in my opinion. In truth, I look forward tithe days when a lot of the older generations who are stuck in their old ways ('we did just fine without health tests 15 years ago') ect in our system are out of the way, and make way for people who are embracing newer changes to develop the breed.

I am proud to be a young person and I have achieved more in my life so far than most people do in their entire lives. I certainly do NOT think age is directly linked to knowledge.




Last edited by Amelia_; 07-30-2012 at 11:43 AM.
Amelia_ is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Amelia_ For This Useful Post:
ataro (11-24-2012), Australdi (07-30-2012), Dobermom07 (08-01-2012), GingerGunlock (07-30-2012), kwhite30 (07-30-2012), latere (02-06-2013), lelise (07-30-2012), RedFawnRising (07-30-2012), RottenVonSpotten (08-02-2012), Ruthie (07-30-2012), Sam1491 (07-30-2012), the_discowhore (07-30-2012)
post #55 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:49 AM
Alpha
 
robinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,665
Location: Washington State
Dogs Name: Emerald's Excabibur ex Tijac (Rex) and Wittrock's Jazzzzzy Tara (Tara)
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: 04/12/05 and 11/09/08
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit robinb's Gallery
Thanks: 1,895
Thanked 1,639 Times in 588 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFilley View Post
I agree with you. I know my breeder always has a waiting list. I had to wait a year and a half to get my first dog. After that, since I have stayed in constant communication with her (and now on my 6th of her breedings), I believe she will always have a dog for me if she has an upcoming litter and I will still drive 2400 miles round trip for one. She had a litter about 3 weeks ago, 6 females and one male. She's keeping two, maybe three of the females to see how they do and the others are going to repeat owners who have had her dogs for years.
Yes, plus Facebook is proving to be a very effective networking tool with far less drama.

robinb is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to robinb For This Useful Post:
KCFilley (07-30-2012), Marieldobes (07-30-2012)
post #56 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 11:57 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,471
Location: TX
Dogs Name: Zelda(siberian husky), Optimus Prime(doberman)
Titles: CGC, Certified Therapy Dog
Dogs Age: 7, 4
Gallery Pics: 12
Visit ZeldaRules's Gallery
Thanks: 9,240
Thanked 21,081 Times in 5,362 Posts
Images: 12
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
Yes, plus Facebook is proving to be a very effective networking tool with far less drama.
Sadly that is not true for the rescue world, lol.
ZeldaRules is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ZeldaRules For This Useful Post:
Australdi (07-30-2012), BenVera (07-30-2012), In the Hamptons (08-01-2012), J.Jones (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012)
post #57 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:02 PM
Sea Hag
 
Murreydobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,933

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Murreydobe's Gallery
Thanks: 3,083
Thanked 34,683 Times in 7,941 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
Well I don't think it is fair to call one persons opinion less valid than someone else's opinion, especially when those accusing others of being 'just pet owners' don't even know the poster's background AT ALL. Especially when things people are talking about are down to ethics, as I said before people's belief are different and there arnt right and wrong opinions.

I hate how people talk down to those younger or people who have been in the breed for less time than others. With the know-it-all attitude of presenting their opinions as facts. Firstly, nobody knows my background in dogs so for all anyone ere knows I could have been in boxers for the last 10+ years. Saying things like 'Shes been breeding longer than you have been alive' does not count for a thing in my opinion. In truth, I look forward tithe days when a lot of the older generations who are stuck in their old ways ('we did just fine without health tests 15 years ago') ect in our system are out of the way, and make way for people who are embracing newer changes to develop the breed.

I am proud to be a young person and I have achieved more in my life so far than most people do in their entire lives. I certainly do NOT think age is directly linked to knowledge.
Actually, I happen to agree with you that *some* long term breeders are stuck in the past, and seem to be unable to adapt to some beneficial changes that have occurred over the years. But there are also a lot of long term breeders who have changed with the times-Pam Dehetre happens to be one of them. So was Judy Doniere, another 50+ year breeder. Both of these ladies were/are deeply involved in health testing and programs that involve health testing, for example.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, this is true. But some opinions are more credible than others, based on knowledge, accomplishments and EXPERIENCE. I don't think it's looking down on anyone by making observations like that. There's nothing wrong with not knowing as much as a highly accomplished long term breeder, no one would expect that of anyone.

I've been involved in this breed for a little over 20 years now. I know *a bit* about dobermans. I have a number of good friends who are highly accomplished long term breeders-I'm pretty humble and have no problem admitting they know LOTS more about this breed and breeding in general than I do. What I've found in being around them over the years is where once I might not have agreed with them on some issue, over time I realize they were right all along-my own level of knowledge and understanding moved to a new level.

BTW-I don't even know Pam Dehetre. Just wanted to throw that in there.



Murreydobe is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Murreydobe For This Useful Post:
Amelia_ (07-30-2012), Australdi (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012)
post #58 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:05 PM
Alpha
 
robinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,665
Location: Washington State
Dogs Name: Emerald's Excabibur ex Tijac (Rex) and Wittrock's Jazzzzzy Tara (Tara)
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: 04/12/05 and 11/09/08
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit robinb's Gallery
Thanks: 1,895
Thanked 1,639 Times in 588 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
Well I don't think it is fair to call one persons opinion less valid than someone else's opinion, especially when those accusing others of being 'just pet owners' don't even know the poster's background AT ALL. Especially when things people are talking about are down to ethics, as I said before people's belief are different and there arnt right and wrong opinions.
Life is not always fair. Moreover, levels of expertise are not equal in any endeavor in life. When I have a dog related question I always turn to someone who has a proven record of expertise. I want to know who they are and exactly where they have been in the dog world. The titles a person has accumulated are as important as the individual dog titles in my opinion, as each is a learning and knowledge gaining experience. Know who your mentors are and where they have been!

robinb is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to robinb For This Useful Post:
Dictator (07-30-2012), hjgrl (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012)
post #59 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Alpha
 
Adara's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9,449
Location: Sacramento, CA
Dogs Name: Flirt Dobe; Gabby Havoc and Envy - Vizslas
Titles: Flirt, OA, NAJ, NF Gabby Ch JH NA OAJ NF NJP - Havoc, GCH, JH OA OAJ , Envy CH, JH, RN, CGC, TDI
Dogs Age: 7, 11, 5, 1.5
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit Adara's Gallery
Thanks: 18,435
Thanked 24,736 Times in 7,243 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
I am sure at some point a choice I make will come under fire. No matter what one does, there is always someone who will take issue with it. I do however think it works both ways, a breeder should be able to justify their decisions and be able to explain them. Especially on a forum such as this where there are more owners than breeders.
I agree but if it were me, it wouldn't send me running for the hills. If I fully agreed with my decision, I'd speak my peace, say why I did it and let others argree or disagree myself. Many ways to handle it and none of them would really send me running from the board myself.

Colleen
Flirt, ADAMAS All the Girls Do It, OA, NAJ, NF, CL2-F, CL2-H
Gabby, Ch Gold Run's Token of Rumor, JH, NA, OAJ, NF, NJP, CL2,CL3-H, CL3-F Vizsla
Havoc, BISS GCh HRQ Guess Who's In Trouble, JH, OA, OAJ, CL2-H, CL2-S, CL2-F Vizsla, National AOM winner
Envy, Ch Kizmar's Bailey HotShot of Adara, Vizsla, JH, RN, CGC, TDI National AOM winner
Adara is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Adara For This Useful Post:
BenVera (07-30-2012), GingerGunlock (07-30-2012), lelise (07-30-2012), RedFawnRising (07-30-2012)
post #60 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:09 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
"... I look forward tithe days when a lot of the older generations who are stuck in their old ways ...are out of the way,..."
I read what you said and I think I know what you mean but the above is what I remember. Ill will was not intended but could have been taken.

Aside from the fact (oops) that I'm soon to be the "older generation," (and oh God I don't want to get old) my breeder is set in her ways to a degree. What a great loss to the breed if she is ever out of the way. I mean Great Loss. Why the thought of that almost makes me tear up. Emotion is obviously my downfall.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Last edited by KCFilley; 07-30-2012 at 12:27 PM.
KCFilley is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
hjgrl (07-30-2012)
post #61 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,141
Location: Houston, TEXAS
Dogs Name: Sebastian Van Halen & Sparky Scrappy Doo
Titles: pro nappers
Dogs Age: 0 & 14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Ruthie's Gallery
Thanks: 825
Thanked 901 Times in 474 Posts
                     
personally I know people who took their dogs to Texas A&M--out of their way for work done--and DO NOT live off the dogs nor breed heavily--but left this forum for the very same reasons mentioned

I go to other DOBE sites on the internet and unfortunately as much as I LOVE DOBERMANTALK.com and EVERYONE on it-even RFR ehehehehe--I DO THINK YOU GUYS ARE A LITTLE "MEAN" without having "ALL THE FACTS"....you can't judge a situation you do not fully know---no breeder is perfect and many do not like this forum

I have talked to MANY BREEDERS and FAMOUS ONES TOO---and CUSTOMERS and have heard GOOD AND BAD STORIES FROM ALL....NO ONE HERE IS DOING IT ALL PERFECT
some breeders that you guys love so much I have heard give bad customer service--their clients feel ignored and some people yall criticize are actually very concerned about their dogs more than you know....................

point is like Rodney King once said--WHY CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG
Ruthie is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Ruthie For This Useful Post:
nubiadobes (07-30-2012)
post #62 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:19 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,141
Location: Houston, TEXAS
Dogs Name: Sebastian Van Halen & Sparky Scrappy Doo
Titles: pro nappers
Dogs Age: 0 & 14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Ruthie's Gallery
Thanks: 825
Thanked 901 Times in 474 Posts
                     
also there are two sides to every story --TRUST ME I work with the public--perception is a big part of it--someone could log in to here complaining to high hell about a breeder but leave out a few key facts showing where the blame really lies........
Ruthie is offline  
post #63 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:22 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,141
Location: Houston, TEXAS
Dogs Name: Sebastian Van Halen & Sparky Scrappy Doo
Titles: pro nappers
Dogs Age: 0 & 14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Ruthie's Gallery
Thanks: 825
Thanked 901 Times in 474 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I wanted to post a clarification about this thread. The opening post is not just from me, it was posted on behalf of the entire mod team. I realized I wasn't clear about that in the first post (and will edit it accordingly).
yea but if groups of people are hiring lawyers concerning comments affecting their business its' a good idea to address the issue
some people here do go on and on without having all the facts
Ruthie is offline  
post #64 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Alpha
 
Amelia_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,944
Dogs Name: Aspen, Rupert, Saul, Nova & Tobey

Gallery Pics: 17
Visit Amelia_'s Gallery
Thanks: 6,508
Thanked 7,291 Times in 2,068 Posts
Images: 17
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murreydobe View Post
Actually, I happen to agree with you that *some* long term breeders are stuck in the past, and seem to be unable to adapt to some beneficial changes that have occurred over the years. But there are also a lot of long term breeders who have changed with the times-Pam Dehetre happens to be one of them. So was Judy Doniere, another 50+ year breeder. Both of these ladies were/are deeply involved in health testing and programs that involve health testing, for example.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, this is true. But some opinions are more credible than others, based on knowledge, accomplishments and EXPERIENCE. I don't think it's looking down on anyone by making observations like that. There's nothing wrong with not knowing as much as a highly accomplished long term breeder, no one would expect that of anyone.

I've been involved in this breed for a little over 20 years now. I know *a bit* about dobermans. I have a number of good friends who are highly accomplished long term breeders-I'm pretty humble and have no problem admitting they know LOTS more about this breed and breeding in general than I do. What I've found in being around them over the years is where once I might not have agreed with them on some issue, over time I realize they were right all along-my own level of knowledge and understanding moved to a new level.

BTW-I don't even know Pam Dehetre. Just wanted to throw that in there.
I agree with you entirely on this post (my first post wasn't directed at that breeder either, never met her, know very little about her and therefore couldn't really give an opinion on her or her breeding strategies) I do believe that everyones opinions change on every topic, but that doesn't their initial opinion was wrong...it was maybe just different I do agree that some opinions hold more vadility than others, and even that differers from person to person (someones opinion I find truly valuable you might not at all, and vise versa)

I think its unfair when people do not know what level of knowledge and experience someone has. I bet we have members who have worked in rescue and rehabilitation of dogs and I'd also be willing to bet they learnt more in 2 years of rescue work than others have in 10 years of pet ownership. (Im sure we dont need examples, but I spoke to someone the other day about his 6 month old gsd puppy who he was walking and making agillity courses for and was very proud his dog was doing 2 hours a day! He's been in gsds for 20 years apparantly)

I think we can all get along even with vastly different opinions for some of us



Amelia_ is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Amelia_ For This Useful Post:
Australdi (07-30-2012), BenVera (07-30-2012)
post #65 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:30 PM
Alpha
 
Amelia_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,944
Dogs Name: Aspen, Rupert, Saul, Nova & Tobey

Gallery Pics: 17
Visit Amelia_'s Gallery
Thanks: 6,508
Thanked 7,291 Times in 2,068 Posts
Images: 17
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFilley View Post
I read what you said and I think I know what you mean but the above is what I remember. That could be kind of like a recent poster generalizing about some Dobermans resembling coon hounds. Ill will was not intended but could have been taken.

Aside from the fact (oops) that I'm soon to be the "older generation," my breeder is set in her ways to a degree. What a great loss to the breed if she is ever out of the way. I mean Great Loss. Why the thought of that almost makes me tear up. Emotion is obviously my downfall.
I'm sorry, I didn't understand the first bit of your post, could you please rephrase?

Don't get me wrong-there are plenty of older breeders we cannot afford to loose.



Amelia_ is offline  
post #66 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't understand the first bit of your post, could you please rephrase?

Don't get me wrong-there are plenty of older breeders we cannot afford to loose.
I hear what you are saying but sometimes we hear what we hear thru no fault of the author. I actually went back and edited out the coon hound part because I was afraid that was too long ago to remember. Someone mentioned Dobermans looking like coon hounds and some folks got upset. I don't think that poster meant to say it like it came off. My dog with his cropped ears and docked tail has some resemblances to a hound but man cropped, uncropped, whatever, they are the most elegant, best breed out there.

Plus, any time anyone mentions age, I get defensive. (not really)

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
post #67 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Sea Hag
 
Murreydobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,933

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Murreydobe's Gallery
Thanks: 3,083
Thanked 34,683 Times in 7,941 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post

I think its unfair when people do not know what level of knowledge and experience someone has.
A lot of the time that's totally obvious by what people say. A few short sentences can sometimes speak volumes.



Murreydobe is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Murreydobe For This Useful Post:
Australdi (07-30-2012), bubsy (08-01-2012), RedFawnRising (07-30-2012)
post #68 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:55 PM
Alpha
 
Amelia_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,944
Dogs Name: Aspen, Rupert, Saul, Nova & Tobey

Gallery Pics: 17
Visit Amelia_'s Gallery
Thanks: 6,508
Thanked 7,291 Times in 2,068 Posts
Images: 17
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFilley View Post
I hear what you are saying but sometimes we hear what we hear thru no fault of the author. I actually went back and edited out the coon hound part because I was afraid that was too long ago to remember. Someone mentioned Dobermans looking like coon hounds and some folks got upset. I don't think that poster meant to say it like it came off. My dog with his cropped ears and docked tail has some resemblances to a hound but man cropped, uncropped, whatever, they are the most elegant, best breed out there.

Plus, any time anyone mentions age, I get defensive. (not really)
So you mean, you think you might be not understanding me properly when I say 'I look forward to some of the older breeders no longer being on the dobermann breed scene'? if so, I mean exactly what I say There are some of the older breeders who are very stuck in their ways, who belittle people newer to the breed yet are actually doing very little to better the breed themselves.

I have met breeders who feel they have been breeding for long enough so that they cannot learn anything new from anyone, and that because they have been breeding for 10, 20, 30+ years they have the right to put down opinions from others. They're the sort I have seen many, many times in the dog and horse world who will point out your dog is lame, when he is not lame

There are many older breeders who I love and respect, and I respect them because they have gained my respect through their work with the breed, not because of the number of years they have been breeding.

Not sure what someone saying my dog looks like a coonhound has to do with it though? Not sure how I could take that the wrong way, when someone posts on my picture saying my dog looks like a coonhound, I read it exactly the way they posted it!



Amelia_ is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Amelia_ For This Useful Post:
RedFawnRising (07-30-2012)
post #69 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:17 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
So you mean, you think you might be not understanding me properly when I say 'I look forward to some of the older breeders no longer being on the dobermann breed scene'? if so, I mean exactly what I say There are some of the older breeders who are very stuck in their ways, who belittle people newer to the breed yet are actually doing very little to better the breed themselves.

I have met breeders who feel they have been breeding for long enough so that they cannot learn anything new from anyone, and that because they have been breeding for 10, 20, 30+ years they have the right to put down opinions from others. They're the sort I have seen many, many times in the dog and horse world who will point out your dog is lame, when he is not lame

There are many older breeders who I love and respect, and I respect them because they have gained my respect through their work with the breed, not because of the number of years they have been breeding.

Not sure what someone saying my dog looks like a coonhound has to do with it though? Not sure how I could take that the wrong way, when someone posts on my picture saying my dog looks like a coonhound, I read it exactly the way they posted it!
I'm not explaining very well. I'm sorry. What I'm saying is often people take away from what someone posts other than what the op/author intended for the post to mean. We hear what we hear sometimes, not with the feeling, intent, or humor the op/author/poster intended it to have.

That's why I went back and edited out coon hound and left in old age. Instead of reading and understanding your entire post, I could have just walked away thinking you were down on old people and anxious for them to be out of the way of younger people.

If I'm still not explaining in a way that does not leave a bad taste in your mouth, I apologize. Your post was good but could have been mis-interprepted by someone like me. People often have to explain to me like I'm a 4 year old. Don't forget, I'm the one who put seasonal panties and a pad on a full male by mistake.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Last edited by KCFilley; 07-30-2012 at 01:21 PM.
KCFilley is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
Amelia_ (07-30-2012)
post #70 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Alpha
 
Amelia_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,944
Dogs Name: Aspen, Rupert, Saul, Nova & Tobey

Gallery Pics: 17
Visit Amelia_'s Gallery
Thanks: 6,508
Thanked 7,291 Times in 2,068 Posts
Images: 17
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFilley View Post
I'm not explaining very well. I'm sorry. What I'm saying is often people take away from what someone posts other than what the op/author intended for the post to mean. We hear what we hear sometimes, not with the feeling, intent, or humor the op/author/poster intended it to have.

That's why I went back and edited out coon hound and left in old age. Instead of reading and understanding your entire post, I could have just walked away thinking you were down on old people and anxious for them to be out of the way of younger people.

If I'm still not explaining in a way that does not leave a bad taste in your mouth, I apologize. Your post was good but could have been mis-interprepted by someone like me. People often have to explain to me like I'm a 4 year old.
Hah! I didnt interpret your post badly at all, I'm sorry if I wrote mine badly- I'm on my phone! Thats definitely not the way I feel at all and I hope I explained how I felt better in my second post.



Amelia_ is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Amelia_ For This Useful Post:
KCFilley (07-30-2012)
post #71 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Always Faithful
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 622

Gallery Pics: 18
Visit BenVera's Gallery
Thanks: 2,152
Thanked 1,249 Times in 380 Posts
Images: 18
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
Life is not always fair. Moreover, levels of expertise are not equal in any endeavor in life. When I have a dog related question I always turn to someone who has a proven record of expertise. I want to know who they are and exactly where they have been in the dog world. The titles a person has accumulated are as important as the individual dog titles in my opinion, as each is a learning and knowledge gaining experience. Know who your mentors are and where they have been!
I agree with this statement in general, but for the sake of this thread and the inexperienced people reading it (such as myself), let's put it in context of this forum.

Turning to someone who has a "proven record of expertise" is great advice. ...Assuming that's what you (collective "you") get whenever you pose a question on DT is pretty far-fetched.

That's one of the many faults of cyber-chat. Many of us pet owners come on here seeking advice, suggestions, and opinions from the educated, knowledgeable and experienced population, but in actuality, we really don't know who we're getting this information from (unless we know them personally and/or know their "track record").

We come on here in hopes to learn more useful information about our beloved breed, which, I think, is why the majority of us is made up of pet owners, and not breeders or others who work in the dog world.

Much of the opinions I read on here are taken with a grain of salt because I know they are just that - opinions. And although they may be stated by the most knowledgeable Doberman person on the face of the earth (let me know when any of us step up to claim that title ), unless their statements are backed up with factual information, I usually will take it upon myself to verify what has been posted (depending on how interested I am in whatever topic is being discussed).

On another note, in my personal experience on DT, I have read some very useful information from novice pet owners, and some of the most unnecessary and irrelevant comments from those with a lot of "expertise".

One thing I will say about the pet owners on this forum: many of us love this breed as much as those who have been in the trenches for many years. We are hungry to learn how to best care for our dogs, and are anxious to hear what many of the experienced members have to say.

But...but, regardless of your level of knowledge, please remember there is a kind way to deliver your message. And that leads into another topic altogether: how much emotion is too much when posting on a forum? Yeesh.
BenVera is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to BenVera For This Useful Post:
Amelia_ (07-30-2012), Australdi (07-30-2012), barker402 (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012), Sam1491 (07-30-2012)
post #72 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:38 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVera View Post
One thing I will say about the pet owners on this forum: many of us love this breed as much as those who have been in the trenches for many years. We are hungry to learn how to best care for our dogs, and are anxious to hear what many of the experienced members have to say.

But...but, regardless of your level of knowledge, please remember there is a kind way to deliver your message. And that leads into another topic altogether: how much emotion is too much when posting on a forum? Yeesh.
I'm a pet owner and not a breeder by intent and I agree with you. As I've mellowed over the many years, I don't get too intimidated by those who know more than I. If I feel I can't compete with the emotion or how the thread is going, I just go join in with my peers, other pet owners, and post in the happier threads or welcome newbies or share help if I can give it.

But let me assure you. I've owned Dobermans for 30 years (ugh) and I get a lot of knowledge from newer pet owners. I can help with posting ears or nutrition, etc., but I learn so much from newbies like the guy who is teaching his new girl to swim and the service guy who posts and posts photos of Apollo. Never ever think anyone's enthusiasm and even limited experiences fall on deaf ears or that it's not appreciated. I personally soak it up like a dry sponge.

Excellent comments.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
Australdi (07-30-2012), BenVera (07-30-2012)
post #73 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:39 PM
Back Off
 
Asmit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,721
Location: Knoxville, TN
Dogs Name: Zeus, Ascomannis Tarzan
Titles: Zeus:CGC TDI BH Argo: BH CGC IPO 1 Kovu: BH
Dogs Age: 5
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Asmit's Gallery
Thanks: 4,133
Thanked 4,412 Times in 1,340 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by brw1982 View Post
I have yet to meet any show or working line breeder I would consider really ignorant. So I don't think any "good" breeder can claim ignorance when they post a controversial breeding announcement.....
*snip
Wouldn't it be great for these two words to go hand in hand one day?

I have seen "show breeders" criticize "working breeders" and working criticize show so often, that it would be nice to see both show breeders working their dogs and working breeders showing their dogs. Speaking of 'improving the breed as whole' I think this may be just it. Where working breeders can lack in conformation, show breeders could improve upon working ability to have the 'ultimate' Doberman.

Not that this would ever happen, but every time I see that phrase, I wish it did not exist!

Great post by the way brw!!
Asmit is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Asmit For This Useful Post:
BenVera (07-30-2012), brw1982 (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012), latere (02-06-2013)
post #74 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:41 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,808
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,992
Thanked 3,754 Times in 1,476 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
Hah! I didnt interpret your post badly at all, I'm sorry if I wrote mine badly- I'm on my phone! Thats definitely not the way I feel at all and I hope I explained how I felt better in my second post.
Your only saving grace is that you own a dog I would love to own! Ha. You explained just fine.

Next poster, new argument.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
Amelia_ (07-30-2012)
post #75 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,919
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 60,090
Thanked 51,433 Times in 16,761 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
.....In truth, I look forward tithe days when a lot of the older generations who are stuck in their old ways ('we did just fine without health tests 15 years ago') ect in our system are out of the way, and make way for people who are embracing newer changes to develop the breed....I certainly do NOT think age is directly linked to knowledge....
AGE-ISM!!!! I cry FOUL!!

If age cannot be said to be linked directly to knowledge, neither can age be automatically linked to poor practices (old ways). You can't have it both ways. There is bad management of dogs, their training and their breeding, up and down the age spectrum.


But I digress, in my elderly way of inconsequential rambling. I know what you are trying to say.....I think........
melbrod is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
Australdi (07-30-2012), BenVera (07-30-2012), bubsy (08-01-2012), Dictator (07-30-2012), KCFilley (07-30-2012), RedFawnRising (07-30-2012), Sam1491 (07-30-2012)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
breeder concern

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome