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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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A Negative Experience with Adlercrest

When I initially tried to meet with them they flaked on the meeting and basically told me tough sh*t we had an event to go to, no apology etc.

met with them finally and then a little bit later they told me they had a returned dog I could come see, it was 5mo old from a family with children. I met with the dog and it had a few issues, since the asking price was $2500 I decided to wait for the next litter.

Emailed them about a month later to ask how it went with her, they told me they found a buyer and shipped her off.

fast forward about 6mo or so, e-mail them asking how things are going and to see if there is any news on upcoming litters etc. Got an email back saying they're not going to waste time on me since I turned down what they offered so obviously I'm not committed to their dogs.

I hadn't contacted another breeder and kept in contact with them multiple times, thinking everything was fine and I was still on their list. Not once during this time did they ever just let me know or contact me or tell me that I was off of it. Absolute waste of time.

Rude, smug and very inconsiderate, never an apology just a tough sh*t type of attitude it seems like they don't care about their reputation... And people wonder why there are still back yard breeders around...

I knew after they flaked I should have dropped them but from reading reviews here I kept up with it, it's why I wanted to write this to let everyone know you could be dealing with a hassle. It seems like my situation was a fluke for them but the way they dealt with it was just not the way to handle it.

I will finally be looking else where for a dog
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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:06 PM
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I'm sorry to hear that, I don't think I would have been very happy in that situation either.



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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:12 PM
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That is frustrating. I hope you'll have better luck finding a breeder. Have you considered adopting a dog through a rescue group? There are many great dogs available through rescues that need forever homes.
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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
And people wonder why there are still back yard breeders around...
I don't really think a bad experience with a recommended breeder is the norm.
It's unfortunate that this happened to you, and thank you for letting us know.
However, I don't think that is the reason BYB's exist.

Best of luck with your search.
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 05:22 PM
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I am sorry you had a bad experience. No breeder is going to have a 100% satisfaction rate and, of course, there are two sides to every story. I am sure there is a high enough demand for Adlercrest pups that it wouldnt take a lot for them to mark someone off the list. Especially if they got a drift the customer was going to be hard to satisfy. Not saying you would have been, but if I got that drift, I might be inclined to skip over the person. May be a mistake, but previous experience might make their radar pretty sensitive. Out of curiosity, what was the five month old puppy's issues anyway? Sorry your experience wasnt a good one for you.

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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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I will be looking into rescue shelters again, along with other breeders.

It has to deal with byb because when "reputable" breeders act so inconsiderate to normal people who do you think they will turn to for dogs? It's not the whole reason they are around but it only adds to it.

The dog urinated when she first came out to meet us and the tail docking was done incorrectly so there was very minimal hair on the tail. Not huge issues but for a "top tier" dog I should expect to be able to decline and wait for one with no issues. I want to make it clear I had the cash in hand ready to take her home had there been no issues, I wasn't wasting their time and expected the same in return.

I understand their dogs are mainly working schutzhund dogs, and I explained those issues I had with her to them, that is the moment they should have just said 'sorry we do not have a dog like the one you are looking for' and everything would have be fine and dandy and totally dropped, but obviously that didn't happen... It's regrettable it happened like this.

Last edited by Geist; 10-08-2011 at 06:30 PM.
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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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I want to add that after I told them I was not going to take the returned dog I also told them that I was still interested in getting a dog from them, they knew I was still looking to get a dog from them. If they had taken the time then to tell me their dogs weren't right for me none of these posts would be here.

I don't want anyone else to have to waste their time looking for a good dog on something as ridiculous as this.
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 09:22 PM
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I’m not a breeder and don’t have any dogs from Adlercrest, however, I don’t really think you are helping yourself with other respectable breeders---- as there really isn’t any shortage of people wanting dogs from the good breeders. And those breeders want a positive ongoing relationship with their puppy buyers for the life of the dog.

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 10:19 PM
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I wouldn't pay $2,500 for a 5 month old either...probably full price, on a returned pup.
- that isn't even house trained completely...may not even be socialized properly (who knows?)

Sorry, you ran into problems, getting your dobe baby...time to move on.
- I enjoy the puppy stage, that's when I build the foundation for my training...and I am not cutting this period short

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinb View Post
Iím not a breeder and donít have any dogs from Adlercrest, however, I donít really think you are helping yourself with other respectable breeders---- as there really isnít any shortage of people wanting dogs from the good breeders. And those breeders want a positive ongoing relationship with their puppy buyers for the life of the dog.
I think the hush-hush, sweep-it-under-the-rug mentality is in general a whole lot of the reason this breed is in so much trouble now.

Transparency. It's awesome.

This poster seems credible, isn't making outlandish claims, the story sounds very plausible, and if there's more to it/another side, whatever, well, there always is, in life.

This poster certainly has the right to report *their* personal experience, and I, as I am sure many others do, appreciate them doing so.

Spending a couple decades around the breed ring, there sure are *some* folks who develop a very self-entitled, dismissive attitude and most dog savvy folks HAVE encountered it at least a few times, over the years.

Story sounds plausible to me, and seems a shame if it is as reported.




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post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:17 PM
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I am sorry if you had a bad experience with Adlercrest
However, I must say it is completely different than my experiences with them.

My dog Riker was from them and I know they are very selective in who they place dogs with. I can tell you they did extensive reference checks on me before agreeing to send me a dog. Once I was approved as a dog owner, Linda was always there.

Riker had an eye issue as a young dog and there was a chance it was cancerous. I called just to tell her about it and she offered to buy him back then and there. I was not looking for anything other than to let her know. It turned out to be benign and treatable.

Riker was everything he was promoted to be.

I don't know, it has been a long time since I had Riker, but just based on my first hand experience with them, I suspect there is two sides to this story.

Sue L
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post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I think the hush-hush, sweep-it-under-the-rug mentality is in general a whole lot of the reason this breed is in so much trouble now.

Transparency. It's awesome.

This poster seems credible, isn't making outlandish claims, the story sounds very plausible, and if there's more to it/another side, whatever, well, there always is, in life.

This poster certainly has the right to report *their* personal experience, and I, as I am sure many others do, appreciate them doing so.

Spending a couple decades around the breed ring, there sure are *some* folks who develop a very self-entitled, dismissive attitude and most dog savvy folks HAVE encountered it at least a few times, over the years.

Story sounds plausible to me, and seems a shame if it is as reported.
Y'know, what you say is very true IF there is neglect, abuse, or outright dishonesty is involved. Looking at this situation, there is no indication of anything even remotely similar to that. Excuse me for what I am seeing here, but it is an unhappy puppy buyer because the breeders saw red flags with the buyer. That is totally their perrogative and I think something like this has no business on a public board. And for as long as I've been dealing with the general public, from the tone of this, there is a very different story and probably a more realistic version that we don't even know, and y'know what, I don't care to know because it is none of my business.

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post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalecho View Post
Y'know, what you say is very true IF there is neglect, abuse, or outright dishonesty is involved. Looking at this situation, there is no indication of anything even remotely similar to that. Excuse me for what I am seeing here, but it is an unhappy puppy buyer because the breeders saw red flags with the buyer. That is totally their perrogative and I think something like this has no business on a public board. And for as long as I've been dealing with the general public, from the tone of this, there is a very different story and probably a more realistic version that we don't even know, and y'know what, I don't care to know because it is none of my business.
As a breeder do you ever let a prospective puppy buyer know why you turned them down or do you just make it clear you aren't selling a puppy to them?

I only ask because I'm always seeking constructive criticism and, as a buyer, I'd prefer if a breeder made it clear to me what was not ideal about my situation or why they would not sell a puppy to me. Being rejected would never make me go to a BYB though. I would just improve my situation or reconsider all together.
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post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenVonSpotten View Post
As a breeder do you ever let a prospective puppy buyer know why you turned them down or do you just make it clear you aren't selling a puppy to them?

I only ask because I'm always seeking constructive criticism and, as a buyer, I'd prefer if a breeder made it clear to me what was not ideal about my situation or why they would not sell a puppy to me. Being rejected would never make me go to a BYB though. I would just improve my situation or reconsider all together.
Yes, Absolutely I tell a buyer why I've turned them down. I don't think it's right not to. And like you said, it gives them an opportunity to improve their situation. Sometimes though, there are just plain old bad vibs, it's like an inner sense you get as a breeder, I've not listened to those bad vibs on a few occassions and certainly wished I had. I am extremely careful now to listen to my inner gut feelings because they are usually right.

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post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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I find it very strange with what happened in my situation. From the point of meeting with them to being offered the returned dog was only a few months at the most and just meeting with them, no background checks etc was enough for them to offer me a dog.

So either they felt that I qualified enough with them to get one of their dogs, or they were just trying to unload a dog onto me, got unhappy when I refused and felt no need to let me know about that fact.

Keep in mind they were fully ready to sell me their returned dog, all of this talk of "buyer red flags" is irrelevant, unless they changed their minds at some point about something, in which case they should have let me know one of the times I emailed them after it happened.

There will always be two sides to the story and I'm sure like I said my situation is a fluke and most people will say they had wonderful experiences with them, I'm just expressing my concerns about when things do not go perfectly...

Really at the end of the day this is my fault I should have made sure and not assumed by their silence that I was still on the waiting list. Hopefully someone can benefit from my mistake.

ps. I would never buy from a byb.
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post #16 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenVonSpotten View Post
As a breeder do you ever let a prospective puppy buyer know why you turned them down or do you just make it clear you aren't selling a puppy to them?

I only ask because I'm always seeking constructive criticism and, as a buyer, I'd prefer if a breeder made it clear to me what was not ideal about my situation or why they would not sell a puppy to me.
A lot of folks do not share their reasoning, and for good reason... making it clear to a turned-down potential puppy buyer exactly why they were turned down effectively gives the potential buyer the tools necessary to present a better (and less true) picture to the next breeder.

An acquaintance met a person on the internet who was not having much luck finding a Doberman, and asked if I would help. The person got in touch with me, and when I asked her about previous dogs she told me that her first dog had been killed jumping out of the back of a moving pickup truck, her second dog had been shot and killed a mile away from her house while harassing livestock and she was pretty sure the third dog had been stolen out of her yard because she was such a nice dog. I hope no one ever tells her anything that would cause her to change her story!
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post #17 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 12:25 AM
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Op sorry you were snubbed if it went as you say it did.

Could it be they felt there was nothing major flawed about that girl? Was it an outright nervous reaction from the dog? I personally wouldn't turn down a nice dog for missing hair on the tail from the right people, bloodlines.

Perhaps they felt you were fortunate for considering you and were annoyed when you wouldn't take what they offered.(?)
?
No offense meant.

I had a friend tell me recently, kindly & honestly, that certain characteristics I am vocal wanting might put off someone considering me as an owner....from this list anyway.

I honestly hadn't thought I was being difficult in my "little list": e.g. dry, nothing crazy, w/longevity in background....from a nice person....but it made me conscious of how I might come off... impossible to please.

What I'm saying is that with breeders who are so busy and with SO MANY inquiries perhaps patience is short if you aren't on in a regular friend relationship w/them?

In any case it is a learning experience and kudos for you having the stones to share it, good or bad.

Last edited by Q734; 10-09-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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post #18 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 01:22 AM
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I am sorry that this happened to you. It is VERY difficult for a breeder to cut through the inquires. What then happens is that the people who get the pup are the cream of the crop with the breeder with the inquiry.

I had my entire litter sold for July but did not breed. Now I have many inquires for the January breeding. I am turning no one away right now. But I will narrow it down to who and whom when the time comes.

I have had my own share of PITA puppy buyers. Right now it seems a major shock to many about price. Then it concerns me that they will value the dog as necessary. So that in itself becomes the first red flag.

You have to consider what goes on in the breeder's head. For me not only do I have normal expenses, I have a major breeding expense.

I have been looking into the cost of shipping to Chicago in January. First no airlines take live animals that time of year into Chicago. There is that temperature restriction again. Any time the temp goes below 45 degrees by Federal law no animals are allowed to fly.
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post #19 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 01:38 AM
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Guess it is just the difference in people as I have always preferred to get a pup at 5 or 6 months of age, but they are hard to find. Housebreaking is a breeze at that age cause they have more control, know more in advance they have to go, have better communication skills. Easier to train anything at that age. To turn down a nice pup because it piddled from excitement at being let out to meet people, how many have I had of those and so easy to get them out of it, and its tail is too bare, time will take care of that, is plain silly imo. There was really nothing wrong with the pup. The mother, with children, probably got overwhelmed. I am sure Philip would have said exactly why she said she returned the pup. Why shouldnt he charge $2500 for the pup? Its not like its a used car. You save a bunch on vet bills as all shots are done, ears probably almost ready to stand. There are a lot of benefits to getting a pup this age, especially if you plan on showing. Bet Philip sold this pup to the next person in line.

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post #20 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 02:01 AM
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Got Timed Out and Couldn't Put It All In

So here's what I had put. I managed to copy and paste it:

I am sorry that this happened to you. It is VERY difficult for a breeder to cut through the inquires. What then happens is that the people who get the pup are the cream of the crop with the breeder with the inquiry.

I had my entire litter sold for July but did not breed. Now I have many inquires for the January breeding. I am turning no one away right now. But I will narrow it down to who and whom when the time comes. How can I promise anyway? I don't know how many colors sexes etc. But people seem to want to put in orders. That's not how it works for any breeder. They get what comes and work with that.

I have had my own share of PITA puppy buyers. Right now it seems a major shock to many about price. Then it concerns me that they will value the dog as necessary. So that in itself becomes the first red flag. I guess that 2K to 2.5K is a shock. Geeze I paid 3K and was not shocked!

You have to consider what goes on in the breeder's head. For me not only do I have normal expenses, I have a major breeding expense.

I have been looking into the cost of shipping to Chicago in January. First no airlines take live animals that time of year into Chicago. There is that temperature restriction again. Any time the temp goes below 45 degrees by Federal law no animals are allowed to fly. Chicago will not be 45 degrees in January.

(Geeze it clicked and I almost lost the entire thing again but instead it posted. Wheew!!)

So, now I have to look at other ways to get her to Chicago. That means I will contact the airline that flies only animals. If they don't have a full load or go into Chicago that time of year, I am out of luck.

So then my only alternative is driving that course in the Winter. I will do that if I have to. But now we are looking at a 5 days drive, a rented car, motels, at least 14 days of motels at $100 a day X 14 or better days...on and on. So say the car costs me $400.00 to rent. The fuel costs me round trip $600. I have to eat on this trip. Then I have the stud fee. I and another person helping me with this arrangement and we figure I will be between $7 and 8 grand to do this stud.

So when people want a puppy and expect to be treated as someone who wants respect, I have to think of what I put in as well. That is not counting the showing, health testing, etc that went on all along this road. The work of raising the litter is even another issue unpaid.

I have some people now on the waiting list I am excited about. They are both pet and show people. But they seem to express just as much excitement about getting this quality of puppy as I. It helps to feel appreciated along the way for going out of your way. I guess that is what we are all looking for in buyers.

Producing puppies is a loosing business if done right. So most breeders are looking for the top of the mark buyer. That is how you get your puppy. It probably put off the breeder in your stuck up attitude which is how it must of come off.

If you were not intersted in a puppy that age, who had been returned for that level price, you should have never went to see it. That is the major key I see here.

You would be surprised how many people I get that just want to come to see my girl in her home just out of curisoity. Curisoty killed the cat so to speak. I am not running a open store/restaurant. But I get people many times that just want to drop in and sometimes do unannounced just to see my "shop." This is not fair to me or my dog.

I can tell you many red flags come along. There is nothing worse than a "litter idiot" who becomes a major pain in the puttoty.

But my guess here would have been that you took it upon yourself to see this returned puppy and they thought that you never had any intention but came just to be a lookey loo. That would have been my impression.

Keep looking for your puppy. You will find one. The approach is everything. And, some people learn the approach. That is when experience tells the breeder by hunch back off. I'm with Pat on this one. You have to go with a hunch. There is nothing I want more than to see happy appreciative puppy owner/buyers who are just as excited and thrilled as I with their puppy.

I'm not trying to discourage you. But as always there's two sides to any story. My guess off the top of my head was you should have never went to see a dog you may not have been totally sold on. That's what angered the breeder. A nubbed tail is nothing on a pet. They even show them that way besides. So that one was not good enough for you then others would not either. This is the thinking from that response.

Hope you get your well bred puppy. Everyone deserves a good dog and the right dog for themselves.
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post #21 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobies 71 View Post
So then my only alternative is driving that course in the Winter. I will do that if I have to. But now we are looking at a 5 days drive, a rented car, motels, at least 14 days of motels at $100 a day X 14 or better days...on and on. So say the car costs me $400.00 to rent. The fuel costs me round trip $600. I have to eat on this trip. Then I have the stud fee. I and another person helping me with this arrangement and we figure I will be between $7 and 8 grand to do this stud.

Producing puppies is a loosing business if done right.
You don't have a FedEx office and a vet???

Producing puppies is a gamble... it can go complicated/difficult/expensive or it can go simply/smoothly and you can indeed make a buck. It is not by definition a losing proposition if done right.
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post #22 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 02:56 AM
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If you're getting timed out try clicking "remember me" when signing in. I've not had problems losing posts after doing that.
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post #23 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
You don't have a FedEx office and a vet???

Producing puppies is a gamble... it can go complicated/difficult/expensive or it can go simply/smoothly and you can indeed make a buck. It is not by definition a losing proposition if done right.
Wow - That is quite a statement to make to an experienced breeder.
First - not all bitches take AI. Trust me - Valkyrie missed the first time, and I have sent semen to bitches who missed with Havok. Who is a proven stud.

Second - not all bitch owners are happy about putting the bitch through the surgery.

Third - You have to have the right vet to do a surgical implant. Dobermans can be tougher to get to take. I am lucky to have a reproductive specialist that I took Valkyrie to that happens to be a Doberman breeder. Not everyone is that lucky

If you are thinking vaginal - well I know a LOT of bitches who have missed that way and I would struggle to come up with a list of Doberman breedings that have been successful.

I happen to know who she is breeding to and it is a very nice dog. If she wants to go to that line why not give herself the best chance of success. Especially after waiting a year for this. She has the age of the bitch and dog to consider, timing of puppies etc.

I just find your reply very simplistic.

And - I do not know the OP, and am not getting a puppy from her etc. I just know what can go into breeding good dogs.


Y
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post #24 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 10:02 AM
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A lot of folks do not share their reasoning, and for good reason... making it clear to a turned-down potential puppy buyer exactly why they were turned down effectively gives the potential buyer the tools necessary to present a better (and less true) picture to the next breeder.

An acquaintance met a person on the internet who was not having much luck finding a Doberman, and asked if I would help. The person got in touch with me, and when I asked her about previous dogs she told me that her first dog had been killed jumping out of the back of a moving pickup truck, her second dog had been shot and killed a mile away from her house while harassing livestock and she was pretty sure the third dog had been stolen out of her yard because she was such a nice dog. I hope no one ever tells her anything that would cause her to change her story!
I turned down one person for a show puppy once. Explained to her nicely that she wasn't making much of an effort to show the bitch she already had, who was a nice girl. So I really didn't have a lot of confidence she'd do right by the male show prospect she wanted to buy from me. I told her I knew she was a good home, so I'd be glad to place a pet quality puppy with her then, or talk to her at a later date about a show puppy AFTER she finished the bitch she had.

WELL! You would have thought I accused her of being a child molester or something! Bad attitude, ugly scene. I sure wouldn't make that mistake of being honest about why I refused someone again. A lot of people just don't handle rejection well..so there's always two sides to the story of why breeders might just drop someone without a word.



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post #25 of 86 (permalink) Old 10-09-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I think the hush-hush, sweep-it-under-the-rug mentality is in general a whole lot of the reason this breed is in so much trouble now.

Transparency. It's awesome.

This poster seems credible, isn't making outlandish claims, the story sounds very plausible, and if there's more to it/another side, whatever, well, there always is, in life.

This poster certainly has the right to report *their* personal experience, and I, as I am sure many others do, appreciate them doing so.

Spending a couple decades around the breed ring, there sure are *some* folks who develop a very self-entitled, dismissive attitude and most dog savvy folks HAVE encountered it at least a few times, over the years.

Story sounds plausible to me, and seems a shame if it is as reported.
For whatever reason, the OP wasnít going to be considered for a future litter from this breeder. Furthermore, I would hope that most would agree to the importance of a breeder and puppy buyer having a good relationship for the life of the dog. If either party feels for whatever reason that this might prove difficult over the long haul --- then itís certainly far better for all involved, and especially for the puppy, to walk away before, bringing the puppy home or selling a puppy, and then having communication problems. And that could be something as simple as a gut feeling on the part of either party.

The one thing Iíve learned over the years, is no two breeders handle their prospective lists or buyers equally nor should they. In addition, no two litters (unless they happen to be a repeat breeding) would be the same in respect to the homes and experience levels they would be most suited for, as well as even puppies within the same litter will differ and all need to be matched to the buyer. Repeat buyers who have proved to be great homes are almost always put to the top of the list as well as folks who have a proven and good track record with their previous dogs.

I never suggested that the OP didn't have the right to share their experience. It's just not something I would have done. So are we now going to rise the bar and ask breeders to come on here and explain why someone wasn't going to be considered for a puppy? Yes, transparency is awesome and both parties (breeder and puppy buyer) should share all information regarding the puppy--both the good and bad-- and the prospective home for the puppy as well.

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