Reputable breeders - for new folks - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #1 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Reputable breeders - for new folks

There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

1. Health testing.
It is no shock that this is a breed that is plauged by more health problems than most. A breeder who doesn't health test cannot be reputable in my eyes. My own criteria for health testing is that brefore being bred a dog should have at minimum cardio tests (this has gotten more complicated but hopefully we are moving forward with progress), vWD and hips. That is minimum. I prefer also CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork as well. For those breeders who say the pups have been checked... yes, the pups should have seen a vet at some point, but the majority of the health exams should belong to the parents.

2. Some kind of certification in a venue.
If you are looking at a working prospect, the parents of the litter should have working titles. If you are looking for a show prospect, the parents should be active in conformation shows. Just looking for a pet? Well, there are pet puppies in every litter so you are in luck! You can still get a pup from titled parents, usually for the same price as gimmick breeders. I.e. Family Dobes sells for 2500 with no ear crops and non-titled, or low titled parents. While there are always exceptions to the rules, in general breeders should be active in the venue that they are claiming to improve.

3. Few litters per year.
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. Raising a litter takes a LOT of time. A lot. Raising many litters would probably do me in.

Anyways, when it looks like people are bashing breeders it is probably because some of these items are missing. There are a lot of really good breeders out there. Not all of the good ones are on this site. Not all of the breeders on this site are what I would call reputable. But again, it all comes down to what every individual wants or expects. These three categories are just my criteria when people ask me if breeders are reputable.
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post #2 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 09:34 PM
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Just as a recap; cardio tests, vWD and hips are basically the essential.

Now are CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork done by the best of the best going the extra mile or is there a specific reason a breeder would have these other tests done?
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post #3 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 09:38 PM
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Thank you Erynn! If I could also add, whether a potential puppy buyer is looking for a show or pet Doberman, these items should still be followed.

Reputable Breeder Checklist: Here
DPCA: Here
UDC: Here
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post #4 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 09:54 PM
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Thanks for posting this. Nothing drives me more crazy than someone saying, "But i just want a pet, so i don't want to pay much for them!"
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post #5 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 10:01 PM
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I would think good breeders are open to helping the new owner with issues in the future and most of the ones I have seen always say to tell them if you can no longer take care of your dog and they will take the dog back.
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post #6 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattArch View Post
Just as a recap; cardio tests, vWD and hips are basically the essential.

Now are CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork done by the best of the best going the extra mile or is there a specific reason a breeder would have these other tests done?
I don't think it is going the extra mile per se. I think all breeders should test for these things, I do still believe that the top three (in my book) are cardio, vWD and hips. I also realise that not everyone believes in all tests. To each their own on that. A breeder who doesn't do any testing isn't worth much in my book.


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post #7 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 12:28 AM
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I agree

I agree with WorkingK9's "A breeder who doesn't do any testing isn't worth much in my book" as well. What is even worse is when they lie about testing and say they do but really don't. Know that to me is about as low as you can go. But it happens so let the buyers beware. Any breeder who does testing should be happy to share the results with their customers that buy their pups.
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post #8 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattArch View Post
Just as a recap; cardio tests, vWD and hips are basically the essential.

Now are CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork done by the best of the best going the extra mile or is there a specific reason a breeder would have these other tests done?

Low thyroid is often found in dobes. The thyroid is respnsible for a lot of immune type things and I would rather not see a low-thyroid bitch bred. Liver disease can be devastating and has been getting a little more press in recent years.
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post #9 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy43 View Post
Low thyroid is often found in dobes. The thyroid is respnsible for a lot of immune type things and I would rather not see a low-thyroid bitch bred. Liver disease can be devastating and has been getting a little more press in recent years.
Agreed = and for those interested in some of the Euro lines, thyroid testing is that much more important. The MSU test is the only one as of now that catches the auto immune thyroiditis which can be devastating and is thought to be linked to cardio disease as well. Test for it!


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post #10 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganUK View Post
Thanks for posting this. Nothing drives me more crazy than someone saying, "But i just want a pet, so i don't want to pay much for them!"
My response to those individuals is to rescue. There are plenty of wonderful, pet quality Dobermans waiting in rescue for good homes and loving families.

I am in total support of ethical work and show breeders, but I have no problem with someone not wanting to pay $1500+ for a pet. IMHO there's just no good reason to support a BYB rather than a rescue if purchase price is an issue.



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post #11 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy43 View Post
Low thyroid is often found in dobes. The thyroid is respnsible for a lot of immune type things and I would rather not see a low-thyroid bitch bred. Liver disease can be devastating and has been getting a little more press in recent years.
I think a test may not mean much to someone until it hits home, having lost my beautiful girl Poppy to liver disease (possibly made worse by wWD) two days after her 8th birthday makes testing for it very important to me


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post #12 of 104 (permalink) Old 10-14-2010, 03:10 PM
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[QUOTE=workingk9s;783096]There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

In addition to everything you have said, I would think that a reputable breeder would ask a ton of questions about you and your home situation, because they truly care about where their puppies are going.

Great thread, OP.
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post #13 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 10:18 PM
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Thought I would bump this as a lot of new folks come on DT to ask about breeders this time of year. Do your homework before bringing that pup home!
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post #14 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 10:30 PM
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Excellent post
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post #15 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 09:31 AM
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Unhappy Pets need testing too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganUK View Post
Thanks for posting this. Nothing drives me more crazy than someone saying, "But i just want a pet, so i don't want to pay much for them!"
You have to realize that you will have that pet for many years and you do want it to be as healthy as ever. who wants a sick pup with huge vet bills? you have to do your investigation on the parents getting testing. thats what i am doing right now because i am also looking for a pup. my baby dobie just passed at 10-1/2 years and believe me when I say it, it still was too soon. it leaves your heart broken.
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post #16 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by workingk9s View Post
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. .

This sounds very familiar

I would like to ad that even though health testing is extremely important its still only a small peace of the pie when it comes to a reputable breeder.
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post #17 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingk9s View Post
There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

1. Health testing.
It is no shock that this is a breed that is plauged by more health problems than most. A breeder who doesn't health test cannot be reputable in my eyes. My own criteria for health testing is that brefore being bred a dog should have at minimum cardio tests (this has gotten more complicated but hopefully we are moving forward with progress), vWD and hips. That is minimum. I prefer also CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork as well. For those breeders who say the pups have been checked... yes, the pups should have seen a vet at some point, but the majority of the health exams should belong to the parents.

2. Some kind of certification in a venue.
If you are looking at a working prospect, the parents of the litter should have working titles. If you are looking for a show prospect, the parents should be active in conformation shows. Just looking for a pet? Well, there are pet puppies in every litter so you are in luck! You can still get a pup from titled parents, usually for the same price as gimmick breeders. I.e. Family Dobes sells for 2500 with no ear crops and non-titled, or low titled parents. While there are always exceptions to the rules, in general breeders should be active in the venue that they are claiming to improve.

3. Few litters per year.
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. Raising a litter takes a LOT of time. A lot. Raising many litters would probably do me in.

Anyways, when it looks like people are bashing breeders it is probably because some of these items are missing. There are a lot of really good breeders out there. Not all of the good ones are on this site. Not all of the breeders on this site are what I would call reputable. But again, it all comes down to what every individual wants or expects. These three categories are just my criteria when people ask me if breeders are reputable.
While that maybe "baseline" for health testing... All the testing in the world doesn't necessarily create reputable breeder.

I think it equally important that the breeder asks just as many, if not more questions of you (The Buyer) and your ability to care for this life which the breeder is responsible for bringing into this world.

I don't think it unreasonable for a breeder to ask for personal references, check employment, ask for a two months worth of pay stubs.

If you contact a breeder who is breeding "titled" dogs, health test and only has two litters a year, and goes straight to the "Deposit" inquiry... I'd second guess that breeder. Not to say that many byb's are doing what I'm suggesting is the "base line" health testing... Just saying it's a lot more than just testing, showing and having only a few litters each year.

Last edited by M_Shannon; 02-15-2011 at 02:01 PM.
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post #18 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Shannon View Post
While that maybe "baseline" for health testing... All the testing in the world doesn't necessarily create reputable breeder.

I think it equally important that the breeder asks just as many, if not more questions of you (The Buyer) and your ability to care for this life which the breeder is responsible for bringing into this world.

I don't think it unreasonable for a breeder to ask for personal references, check employment, ask for a two months worth of pay stubs.

If you contact a breeder who is breeding "titled" dogs, health test and only has two litters a year, and goes straight to the "Deposit" inquiry... I'd second guess that breeder. Not to say that many byb's are doing what I'm suggesting is the "base line" health testing... Just saying it's a lot more than just testing, showing and having only a few litters each year.
Agreed.


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post #19 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 02:42 PM
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I think it equally important that the breeder asks just as many, if not more questions of you (The Buyer) and your ability to care for this life which the breeder is responsible for bringing into this world.

I don't think it unreasonable for a breeder to ask for personal references, check employment, ask for a two months worth of pay stubs.

If you contact a breeder who is breeding "titled" dogs, health test and only has two litters a year, and goes straight to the "Deposit" inquiry... I'd second guess that breeder. Not to say that many byb's are doing what I'm suggesting is the "base line" health testing... Just saying it's a lot more than just testing, showing and having only a few litters each year.

Ahhh Yes and what do you call a breeder that isn't as quick to reply or help you anymore or makes some lame excuses that it's your doing that the dog's having some difficulty or problems after you have purchased a pup from him or here but prier to the purchase where there for you in a heart beat what do you call that type of breeder???
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post #20 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 02:59 PM
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Ahhh Yes and what do you call a breeder that isn't as quick to reply or help you anymore or makes some lame excuses that it's your doing that the dog's having some difficulty or problems after you have purchased a pup from him or here but prier to the purchase where there for you in a heart beat what do you call that type of breeder???

Lacking in good character and compassion.




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post #21 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by M_Shannon View Post
If you contact a breeder who is breeding "titled" dogs, health test and only has two litters a year, and goes straight to the "Deposit" inquiry... I'd second guess that breeder. Not to say that many byb's are doing what I'm suggesting is the "base line" health testing... Just saying it's a lot more than just testing, showing and having only a few litters each year.
Exactly. I gave a two page letter so they'd know my sitaution, referances, etc -- and many of them had further questions anyway! So definitely, if a breeder isn't screening you, you may want to avoid that breeder, titles or not.

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From what I have learned here and other places, in addition to much that has already been mentioned, a "reputable" or "responsible" breeder is one that has been breeding one breed of dog for many years and knows his or her line with regards to health and temperament. IMO it seems that breeding living creatures such as dogs has a lot to do with the "feel" of the breeder for what they are breeding. NO responsible breeder would breed an animal that has ANY type of negative genetic problem that can be passed on. This is determined obviously through health testing and lineage knowledge and experience.
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post #23 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 04:48 PM
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I know it can be very difficult for the average owner wanting a great companion Doberman to find the right breeder. Sure, for owners who have previously worked for advanced titles or have shown other Dobe's they already have a lot of connections with breeders but for the average owner who isn't on doberman talk all they can do is search online and in puppy magazines. DT is so etremly helpful its a shame not every future doberman owner knew about this site.
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post #24 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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Ahhh Yes and what do you call a breeder that isn't as quick to reply or help you anymore or makes some lame excuses that it's your doing that the dog's having some difficulty or problems after you have purchased a pup from him or here but prier to the purchase where there for you in a heart beat what do you call that type of breeder???
What do you call the type of owner who keeps calling and emailing for help, then doesn't take the breeder's advice? What do you call the type of owner who complains about how their dog's ears are standing, yet fails to come to the breeder's house after NUMEROUS invitations?

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post #25 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 10:56 PM
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What do you call the type of owner who keeps calling and emailing for help, then doesn't take the breeder's advice? What do you call the type of owner who complains about how their dog's ears are standing, yet fails to come to the breeder's house after NUMEROUS invitations?
Well, probably a reputable breeder would then go check up on that puppy and possibly reclaim it and place it elsewhere?
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