Has anyone heard of the breeder Canis Maximus (Irina Barrett)? - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #26 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:36 PM
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[QUOTE=Vader66;775534]
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Originally Posted by lelise View Post
If you're going to PM me and also post this on the open forum page, I am assuming you wish me to do so as well. So to all, here is my response.





I posted it first, then sent it to you as a PM so that you would see it. I never put out a PM from you.. I just read a ton of other things about this wonderful breeder who breeds like 10 different breeds, yet somehow has time to take care of 3 children. Also, she actually admitted that her "job" is breeding dogs. That's sad. You can go on defending this breeder, but anyone with half a mind would stay the heck away from her. I can think of some reputable breeders in her area. Why would ANYONE BUY A DOG FROM HER?
I did not say you posted a PM from me, just that you PMed me and posted the same thing on the thread, so I assumed you would not mind that I also post my response on the thread- thats it.
To my knowledge, Irina has only bred 2 different breeds within the last few years... not 10.
I give you my respect for being an english teacher as I am sure that field is challenging. Although it may be part of your job as a teacher to tell others what they should do, I must reiterate that this is your opinion, and others opinions should be respected as such.
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post #27 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:46 PM
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[QUOTE=lelise;775538]
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Originally Posted by Vader66 View Post

I did not say you posted a PM from me, just that you PMed me and posted the same thing on the thread, so I assumed you would not mind that I also post my response on the thread- thats it.
To my knowledge, Irina has only bred 2 different breeds within the last few years... not 10.
I give you my respect for being an english teacher as I am sure that field is challenging. Although it may be part of your job as a teacher to tell others what they should do, I must reiterate that this is your opinion, and others opinions should be respected as such.
That is my opinion, and you have your own. That's fine, but I found other threads on here that had links to her NUMEROUS other breeds. I wouldn't make this up. I'm not a breeder, nor am I affiliated with a breeder. I'm simply a Doberman lover/owner who cares about the advancement of our breed. When things don't add up, I'm one to speak out. If you're not the breeder, then don't worry. I have no beef with you other than the fact that a lot of the stuff about this breeder doesn't add up in many ways, and it sounded like you defended her. Have a good night.
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post #28 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 04:04 PM
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Let's all remember there are two sides to every story before making knee jerk responses. Hopefully Irina will respond with her side. I simply stated my experience with Canis Maximus and stand behind it.
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post #29 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DantesMom View Post
I had a terrible experience with Irina Barrett and Canis Maximus. Fourteen months ago my rescue dobie (Dante) died of congenital heart failure when he was only 6 years old. Several months ago I decided it was time to get another dobie, and this time I decided on a puppy. I contacted several breeders in search of an intelligent, even-tempered and protective dobie to serve as a family member and protector. I contacted Irina and told her what I was looking for. She emailed me back, telling me she had two males available: a 12 week old puppy with natural ears who was the runt of the litter for $500, and an older puppy (8 months) with cropped ears that a family had purchased and later returned for $1000. Since I was looking for a younger puppy, and I didn't care whether the puppy was smaller than his littermates, I inquired about him. I asked whether him being the runt would affect his health in anyway. She replied "I don't know. One of the previous runts, she had a kidney failure," but that he had "good parents, good lineage" and she assured me that he would be healthy when I received him. I wired her $850 for the cost of the puppy and shipping, and she sent me the puppy (who we've since named Sampson). The day after recieving Sampson, I took him to my vet for a checkup. My vet listened to Sampson's heart, and told me that Sampson had a 3/6 heart murmur and that I should return him to the breeder, and not accept another puppy from the same litter. Thinking that Irina would be shocked to learn of Sampson's heart troubles, I immediately contacted her and offered to return Sampson. She replied that she was aware of his heart murmur, that 'she was very knowledgeable about heart murmurs because she also breeds boxers' and that Sampson would outgrow the murmur. She said she would take Sampson back, she wouldn't refund me the shipping (either the cost to ship him to me or to ship him back), and would only refund the purchase price to me when she found him a new home. She was adamant that "grading a heart murmur is purely subjective," and she did not agree that it was a serious murmur. She also reminded me that I chose a puppy "only for a pet," and therefore I could not complain.

Two weeks later, I took Sampson to another vet for a second opinion. This vet also diagnosed a serious heart murmur and referred me to a cardiologist. The cardiologist performed an echocardiogram and found that Sampson had a hole in his heart. The cardiologist advised that without a corrective procedure ('ductal occluder or open chest surgery') Sampson would suffer congestive heart failure before his first birthday. Rather than make put such a young puppy through open heart surgery, we took him to University of Florida Vet Hospital where they performed the surgery via a catheter in his little arm.

All told, we've spend about $4,000 in vet costs to treat a very sick puppy. Thankfully, the vet says Sampson should recover nicely and should live a long happy life. However, I would NEVER buy another dog from Canis Maximus. Not only did she ship me a sick puppy, but she denied all responsibility for him once I pointed out his condition. Steer clear.
Lisa,
You are a lawyer. How much do you make an hour? $300? $400? I know lawyers locally make $400 an hour. I raised this pup for two months, vaccinated, dewormed, had his tail done, dews, fed, cleaned his poop. If you are good with math, I worked for 34 CENTS an hour. I only do this here because there are people who like counting pennies, like you Lisa.

You threatened me all along eventhough I was willing to take the dog back and give you a refund. You still kept threatening demanding to keep the dog and get all the money back or send him back and get all the money back. Shipping money are never refundable. Because it goes to pay for the crate, health certificate and shipping. These are NOT my expenses. I do not pocket this money. You don't like this, there are local breeders. There are rescues where you can get a dog, even there you will have to pay an adoption fee to cover basic expenses of the shelter.

My vet graded him as 2. I deal with boxers all the time. Half of them have grade 1-2 murmurs, 95% of them are actually innocent and do go away. I had no reason to believe it was different in his case. Again, he was a RUNT. AND MY VET (licensed vet who owns his vet clinic and is greatly respected for his services in all neighboring counties) FOUND HIM FIT FOR SALE AND TRANSPORT. Had he noticed something abnormal, or suspected something serious, I would have been notified and you would have been notified beforehand. That wasn't the case.

I am copying my email to Lisa after her numerous threats. I have nothing else to say on this matter. Your last threat was to see me in court. Instead you prefered a forum. If you believe you are right, then why didn't you actually take this matter to court? Because that is where the fair judgement would have been made. This is not the right place to do justice. You are a lawyer, you should know better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------From: Irina R. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:05 PM
To: Leontiev, Lisa (SHB)
Subject: RE:

Lisa,
In my email sent on Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:04 PM, I stated that I would send you the refund after the 25th.
Since you prefer to keep threatening and I do not take this lightly especially when there is no ground for that, I would like to remind you that you:
1. received the following email from me on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:13 AM stating conditions of his health guarantee
"He is the runt basically. Those pups are sold for a nominal price to only cover basic expenses. His health guarantee will be limited. Basically, no visible physical defects, no contagious diseases."
2. at 12:44 PM same day you were given an option: a normal dog and the runt. You were also notified that runts often develop health issues.
3. At 2pm the same day you made your choice: I think I'll go with the runt
I did not mislead you. My health guarantee is clear. The dog has not visible defects.
I feel that I am being disrespected. And I do not deal with people who disrespect me.
So, you've got two options. You keep the dog. No refund. Because I do not owe you anything. I only wanted to part on amicable terms. There is nothing amicable in threatening.
Or you send the dog back. In this case you will get $500 back within 30 days of the dog's return.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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post #30 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:25 PM
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P.S. Lisa, no matter what, thank you for taking care of the pup. He will bring you a lot of joy to you which is priceless.

"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about little puppies." -- Gene Hill

Last edited by CMax; 09-29-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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post #31 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:37 PM
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Wow Irina. I am disappointed in you. I have always been kind of on the fence about you and not at all willing to judge you until I knew much more about you. But, really! Placing a puppy with a Heart Murmur and NOT informing the buyer? What in the world were you thinking? I don't care if the Murmur was a Grade 1, the buyer should have been informed AND received a copy of all Vet records for this puppy.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and placing this puppy as you did was definitely wrong. Now do the right thing and give the woman her money back. Seems the least you could do, since you deceived this buyer. And yes.... withholding information is deception. Withholding information IS lying! SHAME ON YOU!

Come on Irina.... Suck it up, admit you were wrong and do the right thing.

Lisa. Please report Irina to the BBB and also file a Rip-Off report. This will save at least a few people from a similar experience.
Check for a lemon law in Irina's state. There is much you can do to prevent others from becoming another of Irina's victims.

Good luck to you and kudo's for doing right by your Pup!


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post #32 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:41 PM
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Because... just plain figures... let's say you have 100 boxers, 50 of them have a grade 1-2 heart murmur, and all them outgrow it by 6-12 months... it is called practical experience... hands on.

I would be wrong if I sold a $2000 dog with a heart murmur as show/breed/whatever quality. The buyer was notified the dog was a runt and that his chance of having some health issues were much higher before any final arrangements were made.

I've had only two runts before. They were both placed in pet homes and the buyers were notified about this fact beforehand. One developed a kidney failure. Had to be put down. How would I have known? But they loved her, enjoyed every second of her life, and came back for a second pup.
Off.

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post #33 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMax View Post
...Again, he was a RUNT. AND MY VET (licensed vet who owns his vet clinic and is greatly respected for his services in all neighboring counties) FOUND HIM FIT FOR SALE AND TRANSPORT. Had he noticed something abnormal, or suspected something serious, I would have been notified and you would have been notified beforehand. That wasn't the case.

...Basically, no visible physical defects, no contagious diseases."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bold emphasis is mine.

Um, well, you are correct in that a heart murmur, even a grade 3 heart murmur, is not *visible.*

But, what about a heart murmur is not "abnormal"? You said you were aware of the murmur. That's "abnormal."

And you keep stressing you told the buyer this was a RUNT, as though that makes everything okay. Not all "runts" have heart defects.

But, given the pup's small size and failure (presumably) to grow at a normal rate/size, AND the fact he had a heart murmur--you, Irina, did not then feel this was something that ethically should be disclosed before purchase?




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post #34 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
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I am so sick of seeing "users" on here that just come on to these threads to back their favourite breeder up. It seems this Spencer character is a new one....my apologies in advance if I am incorrect.

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post #35 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMax View Post
Because... just plain figures... let's say you have 100 boxers, 50 of them have a grade 1-2 heart murmur, and all them outgrow it by 6-12 months... it is called practical experience... hands on.

I would be wrong if I sold a $2000 dog with a heart murmur as show/breed/whatever quality. The buyer was notified the dog was a runt and that his chance of having some health issues were much higher before any final arrangements were made.

I've had only two runts before. They were both placed in pet homes and the buyers were notified about this fact beforehand. One developed a kidney failure. Had to be put down. How would I have known? But they loved her, enjoyed every second of her life, and came back for a second pup.
Off.
Not anything you have said here is an excuse for NOT disclosing everything you knew about the puppy. Practical experience, price, runt, NONE of it makes it right. You were wrong, now if you have told her the truth and provided her with documentation from your vet, then it would all be on her. But you did not do that. You knowingly DECEIVED Lisa by withholding information. C'mon Irina, grow a pair and admit you screwed up and refund Lisa's money!


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post #36 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:02 PM
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Wow.. I don't know about everyone else, but I know that I would expect full disclosure on any LIVING purchase that I make, regardless of how much I spend on it. Threads like this kind of take my breath away - and not in a good way.


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post #37 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:03 PM
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I'm sorry Spencer - correct me if I'm wrong.
Weren't you just on here a few weeks ago asking about more mature Dobermans and where to get them? Weren't you also asking about a specific lineage of Doberman and was told to keep looking and was offered help?

Doesn't look like months of research to me...not being rude, just saying. Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

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post #38 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:09 PM
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And I'm sorry Irina, but Lisa should just keep quiet about how much she spent in vet bills because she's a lawyer??? I don't care how much someone makes - NOBODY deserves being lied to or mislead.

You're a reputable breeder? Then why don't you own up to the fact that maybe you should have been a little more open with this puppy's history or at least helped with the purchaser's vet bills. No visable defects? Since when were holes in hearts visible? And since when do dogs "develop" holes in their heart? Wouldn't that be a pre-existing condition? I mean I'm no vet, maybe I'm wrong...

I feel like every thread that involves you, Irina, is like one big circle that everyone keeps going around and around and around in. You try to defend yourself and at one point I even respected you for it. Then you say you're going to stay off the forum because you just can't take the disrespect - you never do. Then your followers show up on every thread, new ones and old ones and then you reappear.

I don't know about everyone else - but I can't tell you how much I'm not interested in your excuses anymore. I checked out of listening to your useless defences 2 threads ago.

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post #39 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:09 PM
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I don't think it matters if the dog was $2000 or $2, show quality or pet quality. It's obvious the dog didn't "outgrow" the grade 2 murmur according to Dante's moms posting.


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post #40 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMax
Because... just plain figures... let's say you have 100 boxers, 50 of them have a grade 1-2 heart murmur, and all them outgrow it by 6-12 months... it is called practical experience... hands on.
This comment has been made a couple of times, and I'm curious, why are you using Boxers to justify an issue that a Doberman puppy had? Are you saying that Dobermans have the same situation, 50% of Doberman puppies have grade 1-2 heart murmurs that they outgrow? I have never heard that before. If that's not what you're saying, then it makes no sense to include that in this discussion.

BTW 50% odds aren't all that great, when you really consider what it means. If someone told you had a 50% chance of surviving if you jumped out of a plane, would you do it? I highly doubt most people would take those odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMax
I would be wrong if I sold a $2000 dog with a heart murmur as show/breed/whatever quality. The buyer was notified the dog was a runt and that his chance of having some health issues were much higher before any final arrangements were made.
This seems like a such a strange justification, are you saying it's okay, that you were right, to hide known a health issues if a person pays less money for a dog? If what was said was true, it turned out that puppy cost MUCH more than even a show dog. Now, if you did NOT know the puppy had a heart murmur, and made the above statement, I would see this situation is a much different light. But it almost seems like, well trickery, you knew the puppy had a heart murmur, so instead of saying that, you say the puppy has a higher chance of health issues, why not just say what you knew?


I'm truly puzzled at how this was handled, if you were so sure the puppy would outgrow the heart murmur, why wouldn't you have told them the puppy had it, and explained to them that you thought the puppy would outgrow it? I am disappointed to hear that, it appears you didn't share your knowledge of this situation, information that really should've been shared with that prospective buyer so they could make an informed decision regarding the purchase of the puppy. At the very least, I would've thought you'd want to advise the new owners that they should monitor the puppy to ensure it did indeed outgrow that murmur, that would've been in the best interest of the puppy for sure.

So, for me, I'm just wondering why didn't you share specifically that the puppy had a heart murmur?
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post #41 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 01:09 AM
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If a sell a pup and the buyer calls me and say,that there is any little problem with the Heart,i dont make it look like its NOTHING.
Thats what i dont understand!!! How many breeders have NOT heard of the Doberman Heart Problem ?? Its not new! Its known all over.So this is something i DO NEVER take lightly.
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post #42 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 04:25 AM
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So...Let me get this straight, you think because you withhold important information from Boxer puppy buyers, like a heart murmur, it's okay to do the same with Doberman puppy buyers? Oh, ok, that makes sense.

No, no it doesn't at all....

It's very dishonest, no matter what breed is involved or what "statistics" say about how quickly it will potentially resolve, if at all. It's just not fair to the puppy's new home.

And the fact that he was the runt, and not of "show" quality is totally irrelevant. He was still going to a home that was going to get attached to him.

Lynsee & Matix
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post #43 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aphrodite View Post
I'm sorry Spencer - correct me if I'm wrong.
Weren't you just on here a few weeks ago asking about more mature Dobermans and where to get them? Weren't you also asking about a specific lineage of Doberman and was told to keep looking and was offered help?

Doesn't look like months of research to me...not being rude, just saying. Just trying to understand where you are coming from.
Just so you know where I am coming from, this is not the only forum or source for information on the internet, it happens to be the one I chose to join. Prior to inquiring about breeders here I used other internet source and also the local Doberman Club. I think this is the best forum, and have gained a wealth of information from it, and will continue to support it with my membership. It is unfortunate that some members assume that because you just joined, you don't have anything to contribute. My original post simply stated the facts of my purchase, so the original inquirer could use that experience, if they chose to go the same route as myself and purchase an imported dog.
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post #44 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:06 AM
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The buyer was notified the dog was a runt

because it was the runt, means not it has to have problems like this little guy.

Apollo was the runt, oh well he is a happy healthy 90lb doberman and never had healthissues. *knock on wood*

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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post #45 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:09 AM
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[QUOTE=CMax;776135

[B]I've had only two runts before.[/B] QUOTE]

How many litters did you had, the runt of the littler is the last born, correct me if i'm wrong, but means you have in every litter a "runt"
Gezzz because its the last born, means not they stay behind grow and healthwise, where is that fairytail coming from ???

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post #46 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:44 AM
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This is a fair question I think, so it deserves a response. I am considering pursuing legal action against her, but I wanted to wait until I had the vet bills for his surgery and any follow-up care he might need (his surgery was on Sept. 14, and we picked him up from the hospital on Sept 15).

I've also contacted the United Doberman Club (UDC), of which Irina is a member, and sent them copies of all email correspondence between Irina and myself, and vet bills. I plan to contact the DPCA and any other Doberman club I can think of and provide them with documentation of what occurred. My intention is not to 'bad mouth' Irina, but to recount, as objectively as I can, what I've been through.

[[sorry, it's not clear from my posting that I'm responding to a poster who asked why I'm 'bad mouthing' Irina on this forum and not pursuing legal action]]

Last edited by DantesMom; 09-30-2010 at 10:56 AM. Reason: clarify
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post #47 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avianantics View Post
Wow Irina. I am disappointed in you. I have always been kind of on the fence about you and not at all willing to judge you until I knew much more about you. But, really! Placing a puppy with a Heart Murmur and NOT informing the buyer? What in the world were you thinking? I don't care if the Murmur was a Grade 1, the buyer should have been informed AND received a copy of all Vet records for this puppy.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and placing this puppy as you did was definitely wrong. Now do the right thing and give the woman her money back. Seems the least you could do, since you deceived this buyer. And yes.... withholding information is deception. Withholding information IS lying! SHAME ON YOU!

Come on Irina.... Suck it up, admit you were wrong and do the right thing.

Lisa. Please report Irina to the BBB and also file a Rip-Off report. This will save at least a few people from a similar experience.
Check for a lemon law in Irina's state. There is much you can do to prevent others from becoming another of Irina's victims.

Good luck to you and kudo's for doing right by your Pup!

Thanks for the suggestion. The first thing I did was fill out a complaint at the BBB website, but when I entered her zip code and address, the website replied that "There is no BBB that serves the postal code that you entered."
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post #48 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 12:54 PM
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what is a runt ??
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post #49 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMax View Post
Lisa,
You are a lawyer. How much do you make an hour? $300? $400? I know lawyers locally make $400 an hour. I raised this pup for two months, vaccinated, dewormed, had his tail done, dews, fed, cleaned his poop. If you are good with math, I worked for 34 CENTS an hour. I only do this here because there are people who like counting pennies, like you Lisa.

You threatened me all along eventhough I was willing to take the dog back and give you a refund. You still kept threatening demanding to keep the dog and get all the money back or send him back and get all the money back. Shipping money are never refundable. Because it goes to pay for the crate, health certificate and shipping. These are NOT my expenses. I do not pocket this money. You don't like this, there are local breeders. There are rescues where you can get a dog, even there you will have to pay an adoption fee to cover basic expenses of the shelter.

My vet graded him as 2. I deal with boxers all the time. Half of them have grade 1-2 murmurs, 95% of them are actually innocent and do go away. I had no reason to believe it was different in his case. Again, he was a RUNT. AND MY VET (licensed vet who owns his vet clinic and is greatly respected for his services in all neighboring counties) FOUND HIM FIT FOR SALE AND TRANSPORT. Had he noticed something abnormal, or suspected something serious, I would have been notified and you would have been notified beforehand. That wasn't the case.

I am copying my email to Lisa after her numerous threats. I have nothing else to say on this matter. Your last threat was to see me in court. Instead you prefered a forum. If you believe you are right, then why didn't you actually take this matter to court? Because that is where the fair judgement would have been made. This is not the right place to do justice. You are a lawyer, you should know better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------From: Irina R. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:05 PM
To: Leontiev, Lisa (SHB)
Subject: RE:

Lisa,
In my email sent on Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:04 PM, I stated that I would send you the refund after the 25th.
Since you prefer to keep threatening and I do not take this lightly especially when there is no ground for that, I would like to remind you that you:
1. received the following email from me on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:13 AM stating conditions of his health guarantee
"He is the runt basically. Those pups are sold for a nominal price to only cover basic expenses. His health guarantee will be limited. Basically, no visible physical defects, no contagious diseases."
2. at 12:44 PM same day you were given an option: a normal dog and the runt. You were also notified that runts often develop health issues.
3. At 2pm the same day you made your choice: I think I'll go with the runt
I did not mislead you. My health guarantee is clear. The dog has not visible defects.
I feel that I am being disrespected. And I do not deal with people who disrespect me.
So, you've got two options. You keep the dog. No refund. Because I do not owe you anything. I only wanted to part on amicable terms. There is nothing amicable in threatening.
Or you send the dog back. In this case you will get $500 back within 30 days of the dog's return.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a cop out, you are looking for EVERY reason not be held responsible for the information which you were aware of yet you with held from Lisa.

So what your trying to say is because Lisa makes enough money to pay for the vet bills that takes you off the hook? How can anyone even possibly use that as an argument?!?!?!?! You are ill informed as to how this world really works, what if Sampson wasn't lucky enough to go to a house hold which couldn't afford it? Where would be now?

Good on your Lisa for keep taking good care of Sampson.

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post #50 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneliese View Post
what is a runt ??
Runt
n
1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Zoology) the smallest and weakest young animal in a litter.

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