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Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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ConnQuest Dobermans reviews

Does anyone have any knowledge of dobermans bred by ConnQuest Dobermans in Ontario, Canada? Is it a good thing to "line breed" dogs to retain certain attributes? Should I consider buying a pup from ConnQuest? I am a little confused and would appreciate your input. Thank you
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 12:06 AM
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I'm no expert on the breeders in Canada - I do know that they show as I've seen their kennel name on dogs showing in the states.

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A friend of mine has a bitch from ConnQuest that she adores. I believe her girl will be bred soon for them. I haven't met her in person (because...Canada), and can't speak to the breeding or anything else).

I always recommend meeting the dogs from a breeder in person if you can. Are you able to get to some shows?


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 11:06 AM
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ConnQuest shows their dogs, yes. And I like that they usually try to at least put a CGN on their dogs in addition to showing. They breed a lot but within the code of ethics of the DPCC. I only mention this because some people have differing feelings about frequency of breeding. Understand the code of ethics of the DPCC allows up to 4 litters yearly. That being said they have one litter on the ground currently born December 30th, and two more announced coming this year with one described for early 2020. They regularly partner with American breeders.

They do health test. Not sure if yearly as some of their echo/holter results listed for some of their dogs on DQ and their website date back to 2016 or don't have a date listed. So I would ask to see results for everything on the parents. Always ask for Proof, this goes for any breeder.

Theresa and Greg Chan seem like nice people from what I have seen, Theresa is pretty active on fb so I am sure she would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

I have only heard/seen two negative things tied/traced back to their dogs, one of which is only the specific male and is apparently a known issue with the bloodlines he comes from. (Picky eaters, lack of appetite, liver issues - and I know ConnQuest screens their breeding dogs for these issues). The other negative is to do with temperament and is only tied to one specific bitch, that I am aware of so far, and she is not owned by them, but rather by someone who has the audacity to claim temperament and behaviour is 100% not genetic so... Besides, this could also be to do with the male she was bred to, as the issue is with her pups and not her.

Edit to add: I know of one person doing competitive OB with their boy who I think is from ConnQuest and working towards a BH (I need to double check if he is a ConnQuest or a Wrath-Liberator)
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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ConnQuest shows their dogs, yes. And I like that they usually try to at least put a CGN on their dogs in addition to showing. They breed a lot but within the code of ethics of the DPCC. I only mention this because some people have differing feelings about frequency of breeding. Understand the code of ethics of the DPCC allows up to 4 litters yearly. That being said they have one litter on the ground currently born December 30th, and two more announced coming this year with one described for early 2020. They regularly partner with American breeders.

They do health test. Not sure if yearly as some of their echo/holter results listed for some of their dogs on DQ and their website date back to 2016 or don't have a date listed. So I would ask to see results for everything on the parents. Always ask for Proof, this goes for any breeder.

Theresa and Greg Chan seem like nice people from what I have seen, Theresa is pretty active on fb so I am sure she would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

I have only heard/seen two negative things tied/traced back to their dogs, one of which is only the specific male and is apparently a known issue with the bloodlines he comes from. (Picky eaters, lack of appetite, liver issues - and I know ConnQuest screens their breeding dogs for these issues). The other negative is to do with temperament and is only tied to one specific bitch, that I am aware of so far, and she is not owned by them, but rather by someone who has the audacity to claim temperament and behaviour is 100% not genetic so... Besides, this could also be to do with the male she was bred to, as the issue is with her pups and not her.

Edit to add: I know of one person doing competitive OB with their boy who I think is from ConnQuest and working towards a BH (I need to double check if he is a ConnQuest or a Wrath-Liberator)
Thank you so much for your input. This is the litter from ConnQuest we are researching:

The mother is:'Khaleesi' Am/CanCh ConnQuest Daenerys V Kelview
The father is: Briley' AmCh Aquarius The Legend Continues Alcher

I am a novice at reading pedigrees but ancestors on father's side seem living relatively long. Can't find the mother in the database, but she is ConnQuest's own dog and has some health tests done.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caldobe View Post
Thank you so much for your input. This is the litter from ConnQuest we are researching:

The mother is:'Khaleesi' Am/CanCh ConnQuest Daenerys V Kelview
The father is: Briley' AmCh Aquarius The Legend Continues Alcher

I am a novice at reading pedigrees but ancestors on father's side seem living relatively long. Can't find the mother in the database, but she is ConnQuest's own dog and has some health tests done.
Khaleesi
Dobequestog Pedigree Page
She doesn't seem to be related to the problem dog I was speaking of in terms of picky eaters.
She is the dam of the female I mentioned who produced some problematic temperaments but I wouldn't say that's necessarily indicative, as far as I know I haven't heard anything bad from the pups Khaleesi herself produced.

And it is to be taken with a grain of salt that the person who produced the problematic pups is the sort of person who believes temperament is not genetic, and has straight up told me that performance and sport titles are meaningless cause it's all the owner's doing. Which means maybe when she chose a stud she did not consider the combination of the two parents temperaments.

For longevity I would ask about Khaleesi's mother, Dani. It says she was born in 2008 but the ConnQuest website doesn't say if she's still alive and they haven't applied for her Longevity Certification so it is unknown if she is still with us or not. If she is that would be a very nice age. Her sire (Khaleesi's paternal grandsire) died of DCM at 7 and a half. Her mother has no longevity info on dobquest, no date of death, so I would ask about the COD (unless somehow she's still alive at 15!)

On her sire's side same thing. He's coming 9 this year I'd ask about him. His mother (Khaleesi's paternal grandma) has no info listed in dobequest. His sire (Khaleesi's paternal grandpa) died of a suspected brain aneurysm at age 8.

Briley: Aquarius The Legend Continues

Is he a finished Champion yet? He is a gorgeous dog and was the reserve winners dog at the DPCA nationals, but I can't find it anywhere that he actually is a finished Am Ch, aside from what is said on CQ's website.
Another thing I find concerning... he is not even 2 years old yet! His date of birth is April 13th 2018, and if the puppies were born December 30th that means he was bred in October. Meaning he was barely 18 months... He likely didn't have any health testing done at the time. He's too young for OFA hips (PennHIP might be a possibility) and he has one echo listed from January of this year, and it is not even an echo done by a cardiologist but rather a GP. I would definitely ask to see copies of his health test results, or ask if the owners can provide them.

Briley is also tightly linebred on South American lines and specifically on the Nello's Lex Luthor sireline.
In the first 4 generations alone (i.e. the dobequest pedigree)
Nello's Lex Luthor appears x2
his son, Inaqui de Black Shadow appears x3 (which means if you put it up to 5 generations, Lex would appear 5 times!),
including twice through Trotyl de Black Shadow.
I love South American dogs, personally but that's because I like my dobes spicy. These can be sharp, serious, drivey temperaments, they are not for everyone and not for the faint of heart. Much could be said about Lex Luthor in particular. H was said to have been extremely intelligent but reportedly 'aggressive', described by some as 'inappropriately aggressive', with a few reporting the same about some of his get and grandget. How much of that was genetics vs environment... begs the question. As well, how much of that so-called aggression was truly inappropriate, or even real aggression, vs something else is also up for debate. I have come to realize not everyone in this breed always is aware of what they're looking at when a dog exhibits a breed appropriate behaviour or knows how to interpret certain things.
Lex's cause of death is also a little mysterious. The owner did not report it for several years because a rule in the Argentina KC states you can only use Frozen semen if the dog is still alive. He reportedly had liver/kidney issues and these issues are known to pop up in his descendants. His 'official' cause of death was switched from liver/kidney to a supposed respiratory infection, at age 8.
(Inb4 anyone gets on my case and rushes to defend Lex, my bitch is also linebred on him including twice through Inaqui and I love her to bits, so this isn't me bashing).

Inaqui who appears three times on Briley's side died of Bloat. Trotyl who appears twice died of Cancer. Trotyl has sired an IPO and ZTP titled dog, something to consider regarding temperament. Probably energetic, drivey... and probably spicy.

Foxfire's All That Jazz (female) also appears x2 in the first 4 generations.
Cambria's Highly regarded appears x2 in the first 4 generations, if you extend to 5 that's x3 (twice through All that Jazz).

That being said in the first 5 generations Briley and Khaleesi appear unrelated. If you extend to 10 generations you do find Lex Luthor on the dam's side again so that 6 times in total in the first 10 generation of this litter's pedigree. There are some other repetitions but I'm going cross eyed.

I understand better why you were asking about Linbreeding. Is it a good thing? Depends on who you ask. The reasoning behind linebreeding is to fix certain attributes in a line, or indeed a entire breed, or to amplify them. However, always remember with linebreeding you can be multiplying on both the good and bad aspects of each dog. Genetics are a bit of a lottery, and you don't necessarily evenly get the the same amount of good or bad. Sometimes you can be multiplying more bad than good. If you're lucky, more good than bad. That being said a dog that is tightly linebred can be useful for breeding in the context of an outrcross, or attempting to inject a particular element in a different bloodline. In that sense, it seems to me they used Briley in what I personally would consider a good manner by pairing him to a bitch that wasn't closely related to him.

Depending on what you want in a Dobe, I would be asking Theresa and Greg what Khaleesi's temperament is like, what they were expecting in the litter, what they are seeing and what their reasoning was for this mating, or using such a young male. I suspect they went for Briley in part because of the strong Trotyl/Inaqui/Lex influence because Khaleesi produced some stunners in her litter with Ashtrick's Triple Threat who is a son of Trotyl, and so they might have figured that sireline to be a good nick.

I'm of course barely scratching the surface here, but hopefully have given you something to chew on to ask more questions to the breeder and guide you towards an informed decision. It really depends on what you want and what you intend to do with your doberman. You also have an advantage in that the puppies are already on the ground, so you can ask about what they are currently exhibiting in temperament.

I would say if you want a show dog? This could be a really nice litter with a good chance of producing some stellar confo dogs. You want a performance/sport dog? Could be a lot to handle, but could also be very fun to handle if you enjoy working with your dog. Want to dip your toes into working sports but aren't sure you want to commit to a working litter? Might have enough fire in there to do so.
Just want a nice pet? Miiight be more trouble than its worth. Everything is relative.

And now, somehow instead of preparing my SO's Valentine's Day gift I have spent my time doing pedigree analysis... I think I'm inoperable


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 10:59 AM
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Hi there. I met Greg and Theresa at the end of December 2018 when I was looking for a puppy. Our first telephone conversation was over an hour long when she received my email advising of the loss of our old lovey and that we were looking for a puppy. She invited my husband and I over to meet them and their dogs. They were very nice people and their dogs were lovely. I know in late December 2018 Dani was still living as I met her at their house. I also met Khaleesi and their other dogs.

She was not breeding until the summer at that time and I ended up going with my breeder. She had contacted me to advise a breeder friend of hers had 2 pet puppies and asked if I was interested in one of them. I had entered into a contract with my breeder by then. She also offered me one of her females that had been returned to her but I was in a contract with my breeder by then also.

They were very easy to talk with and seemed open and friendly. They are raw feeders which was a bonus for me as I am also.

I would have gotten a puppy from them as we clicked and they voluntarily showed us their dogs paperwork but I needed a puppy sooner than later to heal my broken heart.

I would definitely consider them in the future if I was looking for another puppy.



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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 12:24 PM
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I can't resist a word on Lex Luther--I met him in person at a National in Mass--found myself standing next to him and his handler at ringside. His handler had just come in from the exercise yard and what was going on in the ring wasn't particularly interesting. So I told him how much I liked Lex's looks. (And earlier that day I had been talking to the Smith's who had puppies from Lex's first American bred litter and they had been telling me how happy they were with the temperament of the puppies).

The handler asked me if I'd like to go over Lex (WOW, what an opportunity--I said, yes, certainly). He did a very formal introduction of me to Lex. That introduction turned him into a very different dog than the dog I'd been watching. He offered to shake my hand and when I ran my hand over him he promptly upended himself so I could scratch his belly. I think a lot of what was described by people I knew wasn't aggression of the sort that I personally find objectionable but I think he was moderately aggressive toward other males.

I think he got a bad rap--but that just my opinion. He was somewhat trained in protection and I watched his owner working him seeking possible trouble in bushes and at least one of my friends thought that was a terrible thing to watch. I thought it was a good example of a partly trained dog looking for something that shouldn't be there.

I liked that dog a whole lot--but I like a pretty sharp dog and definitely a 'spicey' dog so on top of his looks I liked his temperament.

I did notice that in the pedigree of Kaleesi there is a dog who was in the puppy classes at that National along with several litter mates. They won consistently but I saw some behavior that I don't want to see in Dobe puppies--and I think there were 2 bitches and 2 dogs from that litter being shown and at one time or the other they all acted too spooky for me.

Just some stuff I saw in person as opposed to some of the stuff I've heard bandied about, especially about Lex, by people who never even saw or met him.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
Hi there. I met Greg and Theresa at the end of December 2018 when I was looking for a puppy. Our first telephone conversation was over an hour long when she received my email advising of the loss of our old lovey and that we were looking for a puppy. She invited my husband and I over to meet them and their dogs. They were very nice people and their dogs were lovely. I know in late December 2018 Dani was still living as I met her at their house. I also met Khaleesi and their other dogs.

She was not breeding until the summer at that time and I ended up going with my breeder. She had contacted me to advise a breeder friend of hers had 2 pet puppies and asked if I was interested in one of them. I had entered into a contract with my breeder by then. She also offered me one of her females that had been returned to her but I was in a contract with my breeder by then also.

They were very easy to talk with and seemed open and friendly. They are raw feeders which was a bonus for me as I am also.

I would have gotten a puppy from them as we clicked and they voluntarily showed us their dogs paperwork but I needed a puppy sooner than later to heal my broken heart.

I would definitely consider them in the future if I was looking for another puppy.
I am glad to know they are as nice as they seemed to me!
@OP I would strongly encourage you to ask questions about the breeding, raise any concerns you might have and see what they respond. My impression was always that they were friendly and open so you should get answers to the best of their knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
I can't resist a word on Lex Luther--I met him in person at a National in Mass--found myself standing next to him and his handler at ringside. His handler had just come in from the exercise yard and what was going on in the ring wasn't particularly interesting. So I told him how much I liked Lex's looks. (And earlier that day I had been talking to the Smith's who had puppies from Lex's first American bred litter and they had been telling me how happy they were with the temperament of the puppies).

The handler asked me if I'd like to go over Lex (WOW, what an opportunity--I said, yes, certainly). He did a very formal introduction of me to Lex. That introduction turned him into a very different dog than the dog I'd been watching. He offered to shake my hand and when I ran my hand over him he promptly upended himself so I could scratch his belly. I think a lot of what was described by people I knew wasn't aggression of the sort that I personally find objectionable but I think he was moderately aggressive toward other males.

I think he got a bad rap--but that just my opinion. He was somewhat trained in protection and I watched his owner working him seeking possible trouble in bushes and at least one of my friends thought that was a terrible thing to watch. I thought it was a good example of a partly trained dog looking for something that shouldn't be there.

I liked that dog a whole lot--but I like a pretty sharp dog and definitely a 'spicey' dog so on top of his looks I liked his temperament.

I did notice that in the pedigree of Kaleesi there is a dog who was in the puppy classes at that National along with several litter mates. They won consistently but I saw some behavior that I don't want to see in Dobe puppies--and I think there were 2 bitches and 2 dogs from that litter being shown and at one time or the other they all acted too spooky for me.

Just some stuff I saw in person as opposed to some of the stuff I've heard bandied about, especially about Lex, by people who never even saw or met him.

dobebug
Love this Dobebug... and sort of confirms my 'hunch' with regards to my doubts about his behaviour being misinterpreted/misunderstood. Have you ever thought about having a doberman memoir written of sorts?
People are still using frozen on him when they can... I figure there must be a very good reason.


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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I am not sure what happened with my previous reply, so please ignore if I am writing this for the second time.

I am very thankful for the information you all provided. What a great community! It is a great pleasure to learn from you. Thank you for taking the time to help me out.

I will ask Theresa more questions even though I feel like I don't want to offend her. Theresa seems very purposeful in her breeding and takes pride in her dogs. How much asking is appropriate v/s questioning their abilities as breeders? One local breeder met my every question with "Maybe I am not a breeder for you" to the point of me walking away. Now I know this was a good thing.

ConnQuest will be testing the puppies for temperament and Theresa knows we want a pet pup. Perhaps we will get more educated and involved in sports but for now we know nothing about them. I am definitely concerned that the puppy could be too spooky. My young adult son wants to bond and train the pup and he wants a confident dog.

I will share the good news as it comes. Hopefully we will get matched with a perfect for us pup! Can't wait.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I am glad to know they are as nice as they seemed to me!
@OP I would strongly encourage you to ask questions about the breeding, raise any concerns you might have and see what they respond. My impression was always that they were friendly and open so you should get answers to the best of their knowledge.



Love this Dobebug... and sort of confirms my 'hunch' with regards to my doubts about his behaviour being misinterpreted/misunderstood. Have you ever thought about having a doberman memoir written of sorts?
People are still using frozen on him when they can... I figure there must be a very good reason.
Since I can tell you about all the papers I was busy writing at the last possible second both in high school and in college I doubt I'd be the one who should write any sort of a memoir. But anyone who wants to can collect the stuff I write here (mostly here only, any more) and are welcome to put it into some sort of a "book" about Dobermans I've known and actually have seen and had my hands on.

But I guarantee that there will be a bunch of people claiming that I have my head up my a$$--and that any given dog wasn't at all like I described him.

You know how that goes...

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