Beware of Pierre-Luc Charron - Sunrock - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

 2Likes
  • 1 Post By Artemis
  • 1 Post By Artemis
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,414
Location: Canada
Dogs Name: Vanya (Miniature Pinscher), Nadia (Doberman Pinscher)
Titles: SD CSAU ATT IBAR SPOT CGN WAC BH BSA G1a
Dogs Age: 17/03/09, 26/02/15
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Artemis's Gallery
Thanks: 3,116
Thanked 3,643 Times in 1,058 Posts
                     
Beware of Pierre-Luc Charron - Sunrock

I promised I would recount the tale of the young doberman who was surrendered to me and whom I placed in France. But in order to fully understand the kismet in his story, I think it's important to denounce the breeder who completely abandoned this dog in his time of need, among other things, and how he wronged both this boy's new owners as well as his previous owners.

You might want to put some water to boil and curl up with a nice large mug of something warm, perhaps as well prepare a snack.

There is a lot that could be said about Sunrock Dobermans and Pierre-Luc Charron, because the level and depth of con artistry this man has is almost elevated to an artform.

Let me first start by saying that Sunrock hasn't always been smoke and mirrors. When the kennel started out, Pierre-Luc was married and he and his husband were both involved with the dogs and running the program together. His now ex-husband managed to keep things running decently. But it all went downhill fast when Martin left Pierre-Luc last year. Martin was always the one with the love of the dogs. Pierre-Luc was in love with his ego, and now it is very clear, with money. At the time I bought Nadia, the two were still together, they were being mentored by two long time, experienced well-respected breeders. When I got Nadia things were mostly "by the book". I got Nadia in 2015 and there was still some shady stuff that happened prior to Martin leaving (although it was primarily Pierre-Luc's doing) but I will go into that at a different time maybe.

Alright, got your snacks? Got your drinks? Because you are about to read a sordid tale of deceit and uncouth character.

Right now I want to focus on 2018 to the present.

We will start with the April 2018 litter by Can GCH Sunrock DJ Memories x Can CH Mick Rick's Remember Zara's Dream.
Firstly, I would find out later that Summer (August 2018) that Michele Lauzon of Mick Rick had signed a detailed contract for them to follow prior to breeding Zara. They had to do ALL of Michele's required health testing (which exceeded the basic, insufficient testing they did on her) and Michele had to approve the stud at least for the first breeding. They also had to finish Zara's AKC Ch. (As an aside they tried showing some of their dogs in the States, and didn't pay Kelly Marquis her handler fees so they're essentially persona non-gratta Stateside). They did not respect any of those clauses before breeding her to their homebred male. (A very nice dog for sure and I'm not just saying that because he's a 3/4 brother to Nadia, he IS a nice dog. But that's no excuse for breaking contractual clauses.) Oh, and Michele Lauzon told me that when they bought Zara, the check bounced... she had to hound them to get her money, and they did eventually pay up.

Now freak occurrences happen, and I know until recently most people weren't aware that Dobermans could carry MDR1. BUT I expect some degree of transparence. Half the litter died after their first set of shots and dewormer. They of course didn't mention this or announce it and the only reason I know is because I was in touch with someone who had a deposit on that litter. About a month after the puppies went home some pet owners tried to warn Pierre-Luc that their puppy was possibly cryptorchid. It didn't really matter to the owners they just wanted to let him know, especially as this can be genetic. His response? "Well he had two at vaccination." Also looking up the OFA pages of the parents the "cardiac" results are "Normal" but a closer inspection shows that these results were submitted by a GP, not a cardiologist. And it is not the "Advanced Cardiac" which basically means it's just an auscultation using a stethoscope. More things came to light about this litter this past Spring 2019, more on that later.

Martin had moved out by then, and his last official dealing with Pierre-Luc was to get a Miniature Schnauzer puppy from him. (As while Sunrock started only doing dobermans they added Mini Schnauzers along the way). Later that Summer, Pierre-Luc bred Can Ch Sunrock Ace of Hearts to Ch Sunrock Red Hot Ember Fabert.
Now people may feel differently about this than I do, but I would like to point out that Ace was not yet 2 years old at the time this breeding occurred (Born January 2017, bred August 2018). I would also later discover that the "health testing" he claimed for this dog was one basic blood panel and FALSIFIED OFA prelims. The Dam's prelims also didn't appear in the OFA database when I looked up the number which I thought was odd but they weren't visibly/provably doctored.

Anyhow... at the time this mating occurred he was approached by a family in France who were interested in getting an American-line, cropped and docked black doberman. They did not like the look of Eastern European show lines and this would be a first doberman for them. They did not want a floppy-eared, long-tailed dog so a local breeder was out of the question for them. That Pierre-Luc Charron lives in Quebec and speaks French is only a bonus. He approved them, and asked for them to pay in full 3500$ CAD for a pet puppy, had them sign a contract. This family would later tell me that he was charming and friendly, open and communicative before they sent the money. As soon as he had their money he became distant, cold, disinterested. He also later asked them for more money in order to provide a crate, and the cost of shipping a puppy cargo. (All told they gave him 4650$). Litter was born, 5 puppies, 2 females and 3 males.

He also from that litter, sold a pet male to a man who had no prior dog or pet owning experience whatsoever.

There would be one more breeding before his shadiness would be exposed. This last breeding was of Langdon an outside stud to Sunrock April Mist, a homebred bitch. She whelped in January 2019.

February 13th 2019 was the date that the family in France was supposed to receive their puppy. He told them everything was in order. They got the flight number and schedule. They turned up at the airport... no dog. They contacted the airline, who told them there had indeed been a reservation made for a puppy. But that the reservation had been cancelled.

They tried reaching out to Pierre-Luc and got radio silence in return. It was incredibly traumatic for them - they had already named the puppy and gotten food and water dishes with her name on it, a collection of collars and tags with her name on it. The young woman and the mother had both taken two months off from work to better welcome this puppy, dad is retired. Food, treats, vet check appointment, toys, an orthopedic bed... ear posting materials. They were ready and couldn't wait to welcome her.

Well fortunately they aren't the kind of people to roll over and take it. In March 2019 the young woman started writing to everyone on Pierre-Luc's contact list to tell her story. She also wrote on Sunrock's facebook page commenting and warning people that she had been scammed. And of course we are talking about a full month after the puppy was meant to arrive... they still hadn't received any kind of reimbursement or explanation. Eventually the young woman reached out to Martin, P-L's ex and told her P-L was a mythomaniac manipulator, however he himself no longer had anything to do with Sunrock. Similarly, the owner of the last stud Pierre-Luc used, who also were one of his former mentors, publicly stated that they had nothing to do with any other Dobe breeder in QC, and that they no longer had anything to do with P-L. As you can imagine Pierre-Luc's reaction was very quick. He deletes his kennel's facebook page and of course blocks the young woman everywhere.

Firstly he started messaging everyone in his contact list, telling them that this woman was lying, and that he had merely decided not to send the puppy because he no longer trusted this family, and that given her current behaviour he was right. Of course what he didn't know is that when I got his message, I had already gotten her side of the story and I had asked for proof. I saw the entire email exchange, I saw the bank transfers and statements. She even forwarded her email exchange with Air Canada stating there was a cancellation, and that people do go full reimbursement for cancellation. Now I know there are two sides to every story so I waited to see what would happen.

For the record I think it is perfectly legitimate for any breeder to decide for whatever reason that they no longer want to sell/give a puppy to a prospective buyer. I think it's perfectly fine to back out of a sale, especially if you're shipping a puppy far away. So I have no problem with that. However it is in my eyes completely unethical to fail to notify them of this, and furthermore to fail to reimburse. I get it if a deposit is non-refundable but 4650$ is not a 500$ reservation deposit. If you're taking someone's money with the promise of delivering something, then fail to do so and fail to notify them, that's called scamming.

So while he is telling almost everyone he knows that he decided not to send a puppy to them anymore (to other people he says the puppy died in transit), he writes back to this family in France and tells them that her puppy actually died of Parvo along with another pup in the litter (which is a ridiculous lie - ok if your litter had parvo why the hell did you breed another one and why didn't you warn every single person that went to your house and bought a puppy? He sure as hell didn't). He offers them his pick female, OR to reimburse them, OR to get a puppy from his last litter on the ground as he still had multiple pups available. The young woman rightfully is supsicious of this, and says she would only take a pup if he is able to provide proof that the ears were legally cropped by a vet in a jursidiction where it is legal (he goes to Ontario to get them done), as he failed to provide this for the first puppy and also failed to provide proof of registration. She gives him a reasonable amount of time to provide this and he fails to do so. She calls him out on the Parvo thing. She gets no response and he makes no move to reserve a flight or to wire back her money.

So then she calls Interpol. Interpol contacts local municipal police. They show up with a warrant, and they also send in the Animal inspectors because he did not have a permit to be breeding dogs and he was living in a municipality that had a limited number of dogs per household rule. They confirm he had more dogs than allowed and pups on the ground. This would've been mid to late march.

Couple of weeks go by and the young woman does not get any news from the police. She calls them up and... I'm biting my tongue here about what I think of their professional rigour, but the police are totally surprised that he didn't pay her back. Apparently he showed them the emails stating he was offering her another pup or going to pay her back, and they took that as sufficient proof. They never followed up or asked any proof of his claims. So they closed the case. They tell her she'll have to take it up with small claims to get her money back.

Meanwhile P-L buys himself a new fancy 5 figure warmblood for Eventing (he is also into horses) sells his latest litter and probably thinks he's done pretty well for himself all things considered. Meanwhile the young woman is busy building a case and gathering evidence for small claims. Of which she has plenty. I also happen to speak to him at one point using the excuse of wanting him to see how Nadia has been coming along and matured. He lets it slide that he had to bring some of his dogs elsewhere. Later the young woman gets a call from animal control and state that when they did a followup visit most of his dogs were gone and there were no more puppies left.

Meanwhile one of the puppy owners from his last litter reaches out to me because he is living in my area and wanted tips for ear posting which I was happy to do. They're in love with their new puppy he's smart, etc. etc. So no issues there... for now. But remember them because they too eventually run into issues with Pierre-Luc regarding their puppy.

Sometime in mid April, I get a message from a man who tells me he has a coming 1 year old Doberman from Sunrock he bought as a show and breeding prospect but still hasn't received the registration papers for. He asks if this is normal. I tell him it is not. I also tell him it's highly abnormal that he would have been sold a show AND breeding prospect without getting any kind of mentoring and guidance or any support. I remember his dog from the year before as a puppy he posted a picture of him in a doberman group on facebook, he was knuckling over badly and his ears were a mess. Pierre-Luc was nowhere to be found in spite of the fact he tagged him in the post, and said what a great dog his puppy was. So this man write to Pierre-Luc and asks where the papers are since he would like to start showing his dog. Pierre-Luc says the papers are on their way, not to worry, and that he can get a temporary listing number. Of course another rather damning thing... he knew this guy specifically wanted to get into showing and eventually breeding. Yet he fails to tell him what any of that entails. The guy didn't even have any understanding or knowledge of breeding rights vs limited reg/non-breeding, didn't know what health testing was, didn't even know where to start taking handling classes with his dog. These are all massive fails on a breeder's part imo.

Eventually, I decide to call the CKC to find out if the dog is indeed registered. Well, not only was that dog not registered (and so the papers were nowhere on the way) but there was NO litter registered to the dam or the sire's IDs. So not only were the individual dogs unregistered, but the litter itself was never registered to begin with! At this point this means that Pierre-Luc comitted a crime in the eyes of Canadian law. Per the Pedigree Act of Canada it is illegal to sell an unpapered dog as purebred, and to misrepresent the animal as purebred if it is not registered. (It doesn't matter if the animal is genetically pure and the parents are registered, if the animal itself is being sold as purebred (in this case, as a Doberman Pinscher) then the animal HAS to be registered with documented ancestors in a federally recognised registration body. Where dogs are concerned that is the Canadian Kennel Club).

The man is understandably upset, and decides to file a complaint with the CKC against Pierre-Luc. Per the CKC's own rules the breeder has to deliver registration papers within a reasonable amount of time to new puppy owners (I believe it is within 6 months). CKC notifies the breeder and Pierre-Luc quickly reaches out to the man and tells him that the reason the litter was not registered was because the bitch and stud were both to his ex's name, and he hadn't had time (a year, really?) to transfer the dogs back to his sole name, plus his ex had unpaid membership dues. He says he paid all of those things and paid to get the litter registered. Case closed? Not really. The man is done getting yanked around. Pierre-Luc threatens him to try and get him to drop his complaint. The man saves the voice mail then blocks him.

Now, since Pierre-Luc wasn't on top of things, he did not have this man sign a non-breeding agreement or a co-ownership agreement. In fact, as I quickly realise, he didn't even get this man to sign a contract or sales agreement. Which is part of the reason his complaint was so contentious. Per the CKC's own rules these things need to be sign at the time of the sale/pick-up and submitted by the breeder thereafter. The only thing this man had was a piece of paper with the sire and dam's registration numbers (which thank goodness for, because we may not have been able to track down the fact the litter was unregistered to begin with) and with the microchip number of his puppy (without which he may never be able to get his dog's papers). So, the CKC tells Pierre-Luc he needs to register the dog with the man as sole owner, and with full registration. Now Pierre-Luc claims he had the man sign a contract. So he forwards to the CKC a blank copy of his standard puppy contract. The CKC then asks the man to send them a scan or photo of his SIGNED contract. Which doesn't exist. He tells them he never signed anything and doesn't even know what the contract looks lile. So the CKC asks Pierre-Luc to provide a signed copy. (Because, as any responsible breeder would, surely he had his puppy owners sign two copies of the contract and kept one copy for himself and given the other copy to the client... right?) Naturally, he is unable to produce this.

Therefore, the CKC orders Pierre-Luc to register the dog, at his own cost, with the puppy owner as SOLE owner of the dog, and with FULL registration (ie breeding rights). Which understandably, Pierre-Luc doesn't want to do. I don't think any responsible breeder would want to give breeding rights to one of their puppies to someone who lacks knowledge and experience. Co-ownership is another matter. But tough tiddy man, if you had been on top of your **** and had this man sign a non-breeding agreement or at the very least a sales contract (since CKC will honour breeder contracts stipulating the owner will not receive papers until proof of spay/neuter, or will not get full breeding rights until health tested, titled etc. whatever other conditions, as long as they are clearly outlined). I'm also on my end trying to educate this man as much as possible about what breeding dobermans entails, and I start stressing how important it is for him to start taking handling classes and title his dog and above all, all the health testing before he can even consider offering him as a stud, let alone get a bitch and breed. I told him he should ideally look for an experienced mentor. To my great relief he has been nothing but receptive to learning and has decided he wants to pursue IPO at least for tracking and obedience and wants to take his time and not rush anything. Just earlier today he was asking me about health testing again, what the full list is, where to get it done and so on, what's the best age to start etc.

So... Pierre-Luc tries to find a way out with another lie. He tells the CKC that they need to allow him to register the dog to his own name because he actually refunded the dog's purchase price to this man. My jaw dropped when I saw that email exchange. How is he going to claim he refunded the dog when the dog is still living at this man's house!? Naturally the CKC (unlike the local police, apparently) does their due diligence of asking for proof of reimbursement. Pierre-Luc goes radio silent. From there they give him a warning that he has a certain amount of time to register the dog, to the man's sole name with full rights or face disciplinary action. Pierre-Luc stops responding to the CKC from there on out. The deadline comes and goes without a peep. The CKC tells the man he can submit his case to the registration review which would meet in November 2019. Depending on what they decide this could mean that the CKC registers his dog for him directly. He also gets told that he will be notified as soon as the disciplinary action decides on a suitable sanction for Pierre-Luc's failure to register the dog in a reasonable amount of time. Since we are now in November 2019 there's an update on this, but I'll get back to it later.

PART 1/2

Part 2 is next (I exceed the character limit).
Artemis is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Artemis For This Useful Post:
Coco Loco (11-15-2019), Rosemary (11-14-2019), VZ-Doberman (11-14-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,414
Location: Canada
Dogs Name: Vanya (Miniature Pinscher), Nadia (Doberman Pinscher)
Titles: SD CSAU ATT IBAR SPOT CGN WAC BH BSA G1a
Dogs Age: 17/03/09, 26/02/15
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Artemis's Gallery
Thanks: 3,116
Thanked 3,643 Times in 1,058 Posts
                     
June 2019... Pierre-Luc gets served. The small claims court has accepted the French woman's complaint after she found someone local to represent her in small claims (she needed someone physically able to present themselves locally). Not long after the woman in France receives a consumer proposal from Pierre-Luc. I cannot go into details for obvious reasons but let's just say that his listed assets did not correspond to what I either knew or thought to be true. Most notably, he had not listed his businesses including the "Gestion Sunrock Inc." (Sunrock Management Inc) which is a registered business with the province, and was the name of the account where the woman had wired her money. He did not list his horses (or the fact that he had two broodmares) nor did he list any of his breeding dogs. He didn't list his house either. So we started digging. We went to the publicly acessible information for businesses in Quebec. We saw that on the GSI profile, the president of the company was currently listed as Martin, Pierre-Luc's ex. The profile stated that Martin was supposedly president since January 2018. Here's the kicker though: if you look at the edit history, this information was added 5 days before the woman received the consumer proposal. And he had failed to completely remove his name as administrator or the fact that he started out president in 2016 or 2017. We called the CKC and the CKC forwarded proof that the Sunrock Kennel name was still owned by Pierre-Luc and Martin (both of them).

Now unfortunately (not sure how they would be called in English? I only know the term in French, the "syndic"- the people who offer consumer proposals on behalf of bankruptcy management) weren't really interested in doing the right thing or even verifying that their client's legal information and declared assets were accurate. Because of course if the proposal is accepted by a sufficient amount of the creditors (at least 50%, and a 'no answer' is taken implicitly as a 'yes') then the proposal is accepted for all, the syndic gets a cut and Pierre-Luc gets out of reimbursing this family in France (who also increased the claimed amount for psychological/emotional damages as well as legal fees and expenses) more than a couple of hundred bucks. In spite of plenty of proof provided of his horse and dog ownership and breeding, they fail to update his assets. As for the house? We went to the (again, public and freely accessible) register of his municipality to look up property tax values which list the owners. We discovered he was not the owner of his house, as he and his ex had claimed/told all their buyers. It was a rental. Which is not anything wrong per se, it just seems very petty to lie about something like that. The young woman sees no choice but to update her small claims file by naming the ex as well as the business just in case Pierre-Luc gets away with the consumer proposal. Especially since, he named some odd creditors in the proposal. And where the young womanw as able to reach some of the other creditors, several of the supposed creditors had no idea about the proposal or this guy. (He listed a 1$ outstanding debt to a telecom company that hadn't received any kind of notice... so of course if they don't get notified, they can't answer the consumer proposal which means they can't refuse it, which means their silence is taken as an acceptance of the proposal). The young woman does her best to reach out to who she can, she has a few people on her side including an equine repro vet he owes several thousands of dollars to. The syndic tells them the meeting will be held at the end of August. We are now in November so obviously, more on this in a few.

First week of July 2019. My IGP club's president receives a call from a woman wanting to rehome an 8-9 month old male doberman pinscher puppy. Club owner is a GSD person so she asks for pictures and forwards them to me gets me information. My heart sank when I saw the pictures and it hurt me so bad because he looked a lot like my Nadia. I give my ok to the club president to give the woman my number so she can call me and explain in detail her situation. I will not go into detail here because I'd rather keep this boy's story as positive as possible. But I just want to mention a few key points in regards to Pierre-Luc failing in his duties as a breeder.

Over the course of my conversation I find out that this dog doesn't belong to the woman I'm calling, he's her boyfriend's dog. The boyfriend had signed a contract with Pierre-Luc (they forwarded the contract to me. They said there was a page missing that wasn't there when they signed in the first place and they didn't notice until later - which big OOF, a breeder should go over their contract with their clients in my opinion and explain any point or offer clarification for any questions) in this contract it said that if for whatever reason he couldn't keep the dog he was to return the puppy to Pierre-Luc. He also told me that Pierre-Luc had said when he picked up the dog that he always took his dogs back, but that he had never had any returns. (Which is another lie. A little before I got Nadia they had a return from their very first litter, for medical reasons that the owner didn't want to keep, they also had a return they looked to rehome (though didn't state why he was returned). I also over the course of the last 4 years saw them several times say they had returns that needed to be rehomed.) So of course when he and his girlfriend were having issues with his behaviour they called the breeder and wanted to return the pup. The breeder's response was "when he misbehaves tell him 'no' and get him to down." which naturally didn't work. And he didn't want to take the dog back then. Remember this guy had never owned a dog before, let alone a young adolescent male doberman, and he had no prior pet ownership experience. Fastforward a month, it became clear to them they couldn't/shouldn't keep this dog. The parents of the young man adored the dog and volunteered to take him cause they couldn't bear the idea of parting with him. It took about 48 hours before they called the young couple to come and get him. So the couple called Pierre-Luc again to let him know they really couldn't keep him and wished to bring him back. Pierre-Luc told them... "Oy I'm not a rescue I don't want your dog.... however I do keep a right of refusal on where he goes." Probably to keep up appearances. We are 4 months on and he of course never called the owners to follow up on what they had done with the dog and if the dog was okay. Additionally when I asked him if he was registered they said they were told they'd get the papers when he got proof of neutering. The pup was neutered at 6 months, and they still hadn't gotten the papers. Quick call to the CKC confirmed this litter wasn't registered either (surprise, surprise).

Interestingly there was a bit of a path collision here because this dog came from the same litter that the woman in France had originally put a deposit on. The young couple confirmed to me that there was no parvo or death in that litter and that Pierre-Luc had turned around and resold the female that was originally meant to go to Europe. They of course didn't know the female had meant to go to France, they just told me that they saw late december around time of pickup that there was a notification on the Fb page saying that 'due to a last minute cancellation we have an available female'. Meaning he made a cool 8150$ on a single puppy.

Right around the time of the consumer proposal, Pierre-Luc went on a massive unfriending spree on Facebook. He removed everyone in the Dobe community except for the owner of Wrecker, and I suspect this is because this man's main business and area of interest is a high end show jumping barn. He removed his header image featuring his new young horse and then proceeded to delete or hide most doberman pictures and posts. Where his Fb name was previously "P-Luc Sunrock" or something to that effect, he changed it to just "Pierre Luc". August 2019, the date for the syndic meeting with the creditors is coming about. Mysteriously Pierre-Luc posts a link to a rehab centre for men on his fb page. He disappears for a few weeks and so the meeting gets rescheduled to a different date. Meanwhile come October 2019 he announces on his facebook page he has a lot of household appliances and such for sale. He also says he is selling all of his dog pens and all his dog equipment and gear. He also makes a post about the passing of his 6 or 7 year old Miniature Schnauzer (but doesn't state of what). It looks very much like he is moving, which is worrisome from the small claims perspective since without his new address the woman in France will have to hire a PI to find his new home. Hilariously enough though, even as he's trying to sell off his appliances and his stuff, there are people leaving negative reviews on facebook marketplace, calling him a liar, a cheat and a scammer as apparently he would tell people "yes yes it's yours come pick it up" then have them wait all day, and finally changes the ad status to 'sold'. He really cannot help himself.

Also in July 2019, the owner of the puppy I helped with posting reaches out to me. Firstly because he's interested in getting into IGP with his puppy. I'm happy to answer his questions. Eventually though he asks me if it's normal he hasn't received the papers yet (the pup is coming on 6 months). There is also an issue in that his baby teeth aren't falling out. He will need to have them extracted. When this happened, the vet was concerned that the puppy seemed to have bled abundantly and therefore recommended testing for vWD status. He wrote to Pierre-Luc asking about it. Pierre-Luc's response "vWD is not a real illness, and anyway he'll be clear or carrier" (he says this, yet hasn't been able to provide proof of vWD status for either parent. Plus while there are nuances between clinically affected and genetically affected, we also now know a single copy can lead to a clinically affected dog... and it's irresponsible and flippant to say it's not a real illness.) He also manages to buy himself some time, since he states that as per the contract, he will not receive his dog's registration papers until proof of neutering, and the contract stipulates the males should be neutered around 18 months old. Fair. But at that point I relayed to this puppy owner all that had been going on with the Spring and Fall litters of 2018. Of course... we called the CKC and the litter wasn't registered.

September 2019. At the time of Nadia's BH I get to talking with someone at the trial who mentions she works as a trainer and evaluator for a local shelter/rescue. With her permission she said I can state her name - Stephanie Zouzout and the name of the shelter/rescue SPCA de l'Ouest (Montreal's West island). She couldn't quite place where she recognised my dog's registered name. I grumble something about how I would have preferred they put Nadia's call name on the board so as not to give Sunrock any positive promotion. I mention the story about not talking his dog back and scamming a family in France. Stephanie suddenly has it click into place for her - she now remembers where she recognised the name. She proceeds to tell me that over the course of the Spring/Summer they at one point had no less than 4-5 Sunrock dogs (I think all of the puppies under a year) go through their shelter. She said she remembers going on his website and just from the way he talked about his dogs and the information he had on there, she could sense something sketchy about him and decided not to give him a courtesy call. She said people had apparently tried to reach out to him before rehoming and eventually surrendering their dogs. One puppy was 4 and a half months old and had been through 4-5 different homes before landing there. All things considered she was impressed with the temperament of the dogs. They all were very stable and rock-solid... more proof the issue wasn't with the dogs, but the owners, and the breeder for selecting such poor homes. That puppy had been resold on kijiji, contract and all. If anyone wants to verify this you may speak to Stephanie herself on facebook or contact the SPCA Ouest. They conserve all the papers and contracts that are surrendered with the dogs they get. Towards the end of the month I saw the breeder/stud owner of the last dog he used for his last breeding who told me she was furious against him and upset for so many reasons. She said he shouldn't even attempt to register the last litter because she'd refuse to sign or ever do any kind of business with him. So that confirms what we already knew about the third litter. We know he has at least 3 unregistered litters on the ground ranging from 11 months old to 19 months old.

Which brings us to this week of November 2019. Last weekend I was at a show in Ontario, Nadia's very first CKC show. She was being handled by this absolutely wonderful pro handler to a BOS all three days in three out of four shows and was Reserve WB in the limited show. This handler team had, ironically, finished Nadia's dam as well as finished DJ and Ace. I found out from them at one point that Pierre-Luc owed them over 1000$ in unpaid handler fees and other related expenses. When they tried to collect he got violent and verbally abusive, threatening etc. and threw out every excuse you could imagine. So that was another strike against him in this already very full book.

The woman in France also got a return from the syndic. Most of the creditors accepted the consumer proposal. However the small claims file is still open and it can take up to a year before a court date is set. The woman in France got in touch with the home owner who confirmed that Pierre-Luc had moved. (She also stated that she had never approved of him breeding dogs in the rental, never approved all of the stuff he did/added to the property and so on. But he always paid his rent on time and he was so unpleasant that it wasn't worth fighting with him over it).
On the CKC's end he had three complaints opened against him, all from the Spring 2018 litter. The man who had purchased the show dog prospect informed me that the disciplinary action taken against Pierre-Luc as of now will be a 3 year total ban/suspension from the CKC. Meaning he cannot participate in any CKC activities, sell, purchase or breed any dogs. He will have 3 months to rectify the situation by registering the plaintiff's dogs (because aside from the man with the show prospect, there were two other owners who filed a complaint even though their dogs are neutered, the principle of the matter is that if you are paying 3000$ for a well bred dog, you should at least get the papers even if it is just a pet. Plus it's the law in Canada, regardless.) However pending the approval of the registration review panel, the plaintiffs may register their dogs at their own cost, and if Pierre-Luc fails to act or respond within 3 months he could be facing a lifetimeban (especially as others complaints inevitably come through).

Of course, whether he only gets a temp ban, or whether he gets a lifetime ban, I wouldn't put it past him to either switch breeds, or using a new boyfriend's/spouse's name, start breeding dogs under a new kennel name. Although I strongly believe he is getting out of dogs, I have no idea what he has done with his breeding dogs. When I met them he had told me they were in Boxers prior to Dobermans, and with them picking up Miniature Schnauzers along the way, and Pierre-Luc's repeated attempts to find and jump through loopholes, I think it's important to finally share all that has gone down. The very small show doberman community in QC has already blacklisted him, but it is clear to me especially with his last three litters that his clientele wasn't from the established show or performance community but rather the unsuspecting pet public. With a little bit of hope people in the future will be able to find this thread so that wherever he goes and whatever he does... if he ever starts breeding dogs again, people doing their homework will know to beware of him.

His website is still up although it hasn't been updated since the spring time. Stay alert.

Unfortunately all of my proof is in French, but it does exist. I have copies/screencaps of emails, text message exchanges and the audio message I mentioned. I also have copies of the doctored OFA prelims and of course anyone can look up the dogs in the OFA database.
There is more about him, but as it is hearsay I am not comfortable throwing it out there, and of course I cannot discuss the finer details/points of the small claims file until the matter is settled.

PART 2/2
Artemis is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Artemis For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-15-2019), Coco Loco (11-15-2019), Cressrb (11-14-2019), Dobe_Mom (11-15-2019), falnfenix (11-15-2019), Fitzmar Dobermans (11-14-2019), Kdstewart723 (11-27-2019), melbrod (11-14-2019), Rosemary (11-14-2019), VZ-Doberman (11-14-2019), yuki_cos (11-15-2019)
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 09:44 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,245
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 67,962
Thanked 57,206 Times in 18,050 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Whew! That's a lot of typing....
Quite an involved chunk of information.

From what you say, he sure seems like a "badder". I hope that message gets out there...
melbrod is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
Artemis (11-14-2019)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,414
Location: Canada
Dogs Name: Vanya (Miniature Pinscher), Nadia (Doberman Pinscher)
Titles: SD CSAU ATT IBAR SPOT CGN WAC BH BSA G1a
Dogs Age: 17/03/09, 26/02/15
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Artemis's Gallery
Thanks: 3,116
Thanked 3,643 Times in 1,058 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Whew! That's a lot of typing....
Quite an involved chunk of information.

From what you say, he sure seems like a "badder". I hope that message gets out there...
I don't do anything half-assed

It is really a shame he turned out to be such a reprehensible character. By all accounts his dogs are nice dogs - I've been consistently impressed with the ones I've met besides Nadia in terms of their temperament. And they're good-looking too. As I said even the shelter was impressed by how rock solid these dogs were. Couldn't believe in particular that 4.5 month old who not only bounced from 4-5 homes before landing there, but also remained stable in the shelter environment. They said there was nothing wrong with him, all he needed was someone who knew what they were doing that would offer the structure, consistency and rules he needed and provided sufficient mental and physical outlets.

Those dogs deserved a far better person breeding them that's for sure.
Gretchen_Red likes this.
Artemis is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Artemis For This Useful Post:
Coco Loco (11-15-2019), melbrod (11-14-2019), Rosemary (11-14-2019), VZ-Doberman (11-14-2019)
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 10:59 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,106
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,047
Thanked 31,157 Times in 10,349 Posts
                     
Good grief! That's a lot of deceit...


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Gretchen_Red (11-15-2019)
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2019, 11:34 PM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,955
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 3,891
Thanked 19,465 Times in 4,311 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
Wow! That's a lot of information! It's terrible what this guy did to people - I hope he gets his!

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
Artemis (11-15-2019)
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 09:12 AM
Living la Vida Loca!
 
Coco Loco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,349
Location: Brooklin, Ontario
Dogs Name: Sugar Dec 31/18 Coco RIP Apr 16/09 to Dec 21/18
Titles: Heart healer
Dogs Age: Baby boy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Coco Loco's Gallery
Thanks: 14,428
Thanked 5,247 Times in 1,927 Posts
                     
Wow that is awful!! What a horribly deceitful person he is. All those pups in rescue!!

I think the English word for syndic would be trustee since they are the trustee for the consumer proposal or bankruptcy.

That's the scary thing. When you do your due diligence and think you found a reputable breeder to find out they are most certainly not.



Kin's Sweet Revenge aka Sugar December 31/18

Coco Loco RIP April 16/09 to December 21/18
Coco Loco is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Coco Loco For This Useful Post:
Artemis (11-15-2019)
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 10:23 AM
ಠ_ಠ
 
falnfenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,362
Location: Baltimore
Dogs Name: Ripley; R.I.P. Deckard
Titles: WAC
Dogs Age: DOB 7/8/13
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit falnfenix's Gallery
Thanks: 16,853
Thanked 13,744 Times in 4,590 Posts
                     
Those poor dogs. At least the rescue seems to be doing right by the dogs?

“I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.”
- the Luidaeg, Chimes at Midnight

DPCA Chapter Club: http://www.mbdpc.net/
Regional rescue: http://www.dobe.net/
falnfenix is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to falnfenix For This Useful Post:
Artemis (11-15-2019), Gretchen_Red (11-15-2019)
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 11:21 AM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,508
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,187
Thanked 5,499 Times in 2,191 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Wow! Is it bad that I almost feel sorry for him? It seems like he got in over his head and then instead of just admitting it kept up with the story? It's almost like seeing the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. Instead of just bowing out and admitting defeat and making amends he just keeps digging deeper. So sad for everyone involved.
Gretchen_Red is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,414
Location: Canada
Dogs Name: Vanya (Miniature Pinscher), Nadia (Doberman Pinscher)
Titles: SD CSAU ATT IBAR SPOT CGN WAC BH BSA G1a
Dogs Age: 17/03/09, 26/02/15
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Artemis's Gallery
Thanks: 3,116
Thanked 3,643 Times in 1,058 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
Wow that is awful!! What a horribly deceitful person he is. All those pups in rescue!!

I think the English word for syndic would be trustee since they are the trustee for the consumer proposal or bankruptcy.

That's the scary thing. When you do your due diligence and think you found a reputable breeder to find out they are most certainly not.
Thank you for the english translation! That would make sense

Everyone in the community is upset. So many people sent him clients. When soemone gets recommended by a long time established, well respected breeder or gets recommended by the show community, it's hard for newbies in particular to know how else to dig further than that. So many people thought they were getting a dog from someone worthwhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
Those poor dogs. At least the rescue seems to be doing right by the dogs?
Yes, it's a no-kill shelter, and the trainer who was present at the trial does a really thorough evaluation and rehab before rehoming or placing in a foster. She has no problem keeping a dog several months before rehome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Wow! Is it bad that I almost feel sorry for him? It seems like he got in over his head and then instead of just admitting it kept up with the story? It's almost like seeing the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. Instead of just bowing out and admitting defeat and making amends he just keeps digging deeper. So sad for everyone involved.
It is my understanding he was abusive to his ex. Certainly even in the way he treated his son sometimes I was not comfortable.
Gretchen_Red likes this.
Artemis is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Artemis For This Useful Post:
Coco Loco (11-15-2019), falnfenix (11-15-2019)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome