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Windermere36 11-11-2019 10:14 AM

American vs. Euro for Non Show Families
 
Good Morning! First and Foremost - thank you for taking the time to read this and repose (if you do).

My Family and I just recently lost our dog of 12 years. Was really tough on the family, especially my 3 year old and 6 year old. That being said, we have always had our mind set, that our next dog would be a Doberman. We wanted to wait until our current dog passed, to allow her to live out her remaining days in peace.

My question is whether or not we should go after an American vs. European. We have no desire to "show," but want a "show quality" dog. We will do basic obedience training...but no real "working." Because our last dog passed away from health related issues, it is top priority that we source a breeder that really breeds healthier Dobermans.

Would anybody have any thoughts on what would be best in the above situation? American vs. European?

Thanks!

greenkouki 11-11-2019 10:32 AM

Welcome to DT. If you want a show quality puppy a breeder is going to expect you to show the dog. The difference between a "pet" and "show" puppy would be basically unrecognizable to your average Joe or even to most doberman people. Reputable "Euro" breeders are really few and far between so I would suggest you look for an American "show" breeder. These breeders generally do extensive health testing prior to breeding and breed dogs with correct conformation and stable temperaments.

The DPCA.org breeder referral list is a great place to start your search for a breeder. You may also want to go to a local all breed AKC dog show to talk to doberman owners, breeders, and exhibitors. In addition, there may be a DPCA chapter club in your area that you could make contact with who could give you some breeder names or people to contact.

Where are you located?

ECIN 11-11-2019 10:45 AM

Welcome 36 to DT -- From Indiana :grin2:

Sorry to hear about your 12 year old - it is a very tuff deal to handle .

As far as Euro vs. American - I can't give you any advice on that , as we have always had American and really love them , Now Lady Di and a few others do have them and love was we do the American and get along fine - This is just me thinking out loud - But I think it would be easier to find what your wanting with a American Dog .

I also think its great that your on here asking questions about this breed - I will say that the Dobermans are not a breed for everybody and think it would be wise on your part to spent time reading all the different treads on Health - OB ( btw Dobermans need that ) and just general topics , A ton of knowledge on here ! So ask all the questions you may have - they will be more than glad to answer you .

Doc

VZ-Doberman 11-11-2019 12:40 PM

Show breeders will usually want to place their "show potential" dogs in a competition home. In a litter there will be a puppy/s that the breeder feels is "pet quality". There is nothing wrong with the puppy except some minor flaw that will keep it from competing in the breed ring. These puppies make wonderful family members and sometimes shine in a competition other than breed ring.

dobebug 11-11-2019 12:40 PM

I'd recommend a puppy from an American showline breeder too. This usually will give you life time help with your Doberman along with the health testing of parents and dogs that are stabile, have correct conformation and good temperaments.

I've had Dobermans since 1959 and all of mine have been from show breeders and I've been very happy with both the dogs and the breeders.

But Greenkouki's point about the breeders of showline dogs probably wanting you to show a dog if it's show quality if valid. But, the other point, that the rest of the litter that didn't quite make the 'show quality' group generally are not noticeabley different to the average person. But they have the advantage of careful breeding, health testing of the parents and all that went into producing the "show quality puppies'.

dobebug

ECIN 11-11-2019 12:58 PM

But Greenkouki's point about the breeders of showline dogs probably wanting you to show a dog if it's show quality if valid. But, the other point, that the rest of the litter that didn't quite make the 'show quality' group generally are not noticeabley different to the average person. But they have the advantage of careful breeding, health testing of the parents and all that went into producing the "show quality puppies'.

Aunt B brings up a very good point - Our Mr. B came from a show line - but in the eyes of the breeder - may not have had the right stuff or it may have took lots of extra time and money to get to the point they wanted it to be , Well - I guess they classify them as companion dogs - Not every puppy from every litter will make it to the show ring - That is the pup you want .

Very well wrote Aunt B !

Kansadobe 11-11-2019 06:47 PM

It does not sound to me that you have a very long list of desires other than a healthy puppy with a good temperament. There is nothing you are asking about that would favor American or European type. Since most of the frequent posters on the forum have American bred dogs, of course, that is what they recommend.

The main thing is to find an experienced and reputable breeder and know how to determine a reputable breeder from a fast talker. There are good and bad breeders of both types, but the pool of American type breeders is much larger than European breeders. You have been given good advice that if you can find a breeder that is local to you, they should be willing to help you should you need help throughout the life of the dog. This is difficult the farther the breeder lives from you. If they are not willing to help you for the life of the dog, walk away.

As far as health, yes, testing of the parents is a very good thing, but there is no guarantee. Even good breeders have dogs that do not all live to a ripe old age. I hope that you realize that 12 years is long than the average life span for a Doberman.

Good Luck.

LadyDi 11-12-2019 08:40 AM

Hoss is a European Doberman and so far so good.
He is four years old now and like you I wanted a companion and that he is for sure.
Over the years I have owned different breeds but I must say this breed was different for me.
Hoss is my second doberman (both Euro's) and both of them have kept me moving and off the couch.
IMO there is the good and the bad so you have to really do your homework on your breeder as well as the bloodlines of the dogs you are interested in purchasing.
We live in Florida and the first thing I did was research breeders (looking for the good and weeding out the bad)
You see I had many questions and as I interacted with a breeder that seemed bothered with my questions or appeared to not have time for me ......done deal and I walked away. I did alot by phone until I narrowed a few down.......ended up both breeders were in northern Florida. Then narrowed down to two breeders. I visited their facility. Both breeders had no hesitations in having me visit them. Some I talked to wanted nothing to do with me visiting their property , so I that was a big turn off to me. As it ended up the breeder I actually purchased from we visited her and she had no kennel on her property. She advised me the kennel was her home and she went on to explain that she lives with her dogs. We went inside and looked around everything looked good. Hoss is 4 now but I still email her frequently when I get confused with media and all the mixed messages we receive at times. To this very day she always responds within 24 hours to my questions. My first Euro was very mellow.......Hoss my second Euro has a very high drive for activity. We go to classes alot and I interact with many American Dobermans IMO they are great also..................so first look for HELPFUL knowledgeable breeder.......then look closely at the bloodlines and their clinical history. Once you find the perfect dog........then just like us ...we all hope for the best because there is always the possibility of problems.
All of us do the best we can but that sometimes does not work but can give you comfort you did your best when shopping for your dog.
Good luck in your search and hope to hear more from you again.

Windermere36 11-12-2019 08:46 AM

Wow. Thank You you everyone. Nice to see such an involved community. Speaks volumes for the breed!

Artemis 11-12-2019 10:43 AM

I second what Kansa said. The short answer to your question is "No, the differences between American and European dogs wouldn't favour your criteria one way or the other." You can find responsible breeders breeding quality animals in every single line (Show, working, performance, european, north american, south american what have you)

I also do second the notion that, particularly show line breeders, will want to place show quality pups in show homes. Sometimes the difference between a show quality and a 'pet' quality pup within a same litter can be as simple as temperament. A very easy going steady eddy type dog is sometimes not suited for the show ring simply because they don't get excited showing off and it can be difficult for them to stand out in the ring as such. But they can make a great family pet. A breeder in my area earlier this year rehomed a 7-9 month old bitch they had kept as their pick puppy. She was gorgeous - but she hated showing.

All well bred pets come from purepose-bred litters whether that purpose is showing, performance or work. Pets are the "byproduct" if you will, of ethical breeding. There is no such thing as an entire litter that is work/show/performance quality, at least not at a high level. But that's ok because the vast majority of homes aren't going to be doing work/show/performance at a high level. It is perhaps more accurate that you are looking for a high quality pet from a well-bred litter.

I think in general you are likeliest to find what you're looking for in a show line litter (whether American or European), maybe a performance litter. While working litters will also produce non-serious working prospects, chances are they will still have higher drive and energy and really need some sort of outlet that a pet quality show or performance bred dog may not have to the same degree of intensity. You can still have fun with a dog that is active without it being 'edgy'.

Regarding health. There are no guarantees even with health testing. It will be really important to invest time in researching pedigrees and asking questions. When I got my girl I didn't just ask her breeder about the health behind her, I also went to the person that had bred her dam and asked questions about that side of the pedigree.

melbrod 11-12-2019 04:21 PM

To me, the biggest factor between choosing euro vs american dobes, when you don't have any need for a particular specialized trait (where one might do better than the other) is the ease of finding a reputable breeder. Here in the US, it's much easier to find a good breeder who breeds american bloodlines. There are definitely good euro breeders out there, but not as many. There are also some bad breeder/greeders out there who are using the euro tag line as a selling point to mislead people into thinking that their dogs are something special that is worth paying extra for.

sandy2233 11-13-2019 11:59 PM

Personally, the Euro dog is more appealing to me. There is just more to them. I love bone on anything, whether it is horses, pigs, sheep or dogs. I feel the American bred dobie is too frail. But just my personal opinion. Some breeders have taken back dogs that have not worked out one way or the other for an original owner. That might be an option for you. There has been good advice given here. Heed it and research whomever.

MeadowCat 11-14-2019 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbrod (Post 4097645)
To me, the biggest factor between choosing euro vs american dobes, when you don't have any need for a particular specialized trait (where one might do better than the other) is the ease of finding a reputable breeder. Here in the US, it's much easier to find a good breeder who breeds american bloodlines. There are definitely good euro breeders out there, but not as many. There are also some bad breeder/greeders out there who are using the euro tag line as a selling point to mislead people into thinking that their dogs are something special that is worth paying extra for.

On a related note, I guess (or a tangent)...I don't know if you've had a well bred dog before or not, or bought from a breeder, but for me, it's really paramount to have good breeder support. Whatever direction you go, I really encourage people to make sure you find a breeder you really "click" with. I can't imagine not being able to email, message, text, or call my breeder. Stuff comes up - is this "thing" my puppy is doing normal? This thing with my dog has come up...is this common in the lines? Have you experienced this, do you have any ideas? I'm in the emergency room and I'm terrified - I need support! I "talk" to both of my breeders pretty regularly, and I guess I really wouldn't want it any other way. Maybe it is different for others, but I know plenty of people that have been pretty disappointed when an issue HAS come up and the breeder hasn't "been there" for them. So give that some thought...is the person you're connecting with someone you can imagine picking up the phone to call in a year if something comes up?

LadyDi 11-14-2019 12:03 PM

Amen to that Meadowcat .......

greenkouki 11-14-2019 12:11 PM

That is a great point MC. I feel so lucky to have the breeder and mentors that I do for those exact reasons. Being good friends is just icing on the cake! I don't find that American dobermans lack bone or substance in general but there is some variation in what's out there.

ECIN 11-14-2019 12:45 PM

Great post MC ! And its so -so true . Our breeder is a very busy gal - I send her pictures and reports on Kadin - I do ask questions and tell her what I have seen with him - even thou she is busy - she always finds the time to reply or call me . She will be taking off some time off for a few months and we plan on taking Kadin down for a visit And ???????????????????????????????????????? Maybe ???????????????????????????bring home a new sister for Mr. B - this will be late winter - more likely early spring :grin2:

Kansadobe 11-15-2019 12:27 PM

A good breeders always enjoys hearing from the buyers and receiving photos. I know we do.


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