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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Breeder Website

We are in the process of gaining a new baby. Shady Grove was a definite no go. We drove 6 hours and changed our minds once we got there. What are some key website red flags. They all look so well informed. We are currently leaning toward South Paw Kennels. Has anyone heard or had any experience with this beeeder.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:14 AM
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Many good breeders have terrible websites, or no website at all. You're much better off learning how to evaluate a breeder based on the BREEDER, not the website.

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...e-breeder.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...red-flags.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...-want-pet.html

https://dpca.org/BreedEd/buying-a-doberman-pinscher/

These are a start. Take a read through, and then tell me what you think of South Paw Kennels?


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:22 AM
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Just curious, but what made you change your mind about the initial potential breeder when you got to your destination?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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I don't use websites to evaluate much of anything. So many are professionally done that they look good and provide no information..

As far as I'm concerned websites should provide information--for a litter? Parents names--registered names and call names. Titles? working or conformation? Health testing? Know the important health tests and list them and dates tested. With some exceptions I don't expect the sire to be on site. Good breeders go anywhere to find a good match for their bitch--it's rarely in their back yard.

Websites should also provide a working e-mail address and a working phone number and should invite futher question if not answered in the website itself.

No website? Who cares--I know some great breeders who don't have website because they are busy with litters, growing puppies, dog shows, performance trials, their family etc.

Good luck with the search

dobebug

PS I've been around purebred dogs for many years and I know a lot of the breeders personally and have seen their kennels and their dogs and a good website definitely doesn't mean much. Some of the flashiest and most attractive sites belong to breeders I wouldn't consider EVER!

dobebug
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermouse0213 View Post
Just curious, but what made you change your mind about the initial potential breeder when you got to your destination?
Take a look at their website based on what you've learned here on DT....what do you think are some red flags?

https://www.shadygrovekennel.net/default.html


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
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What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:40 AM
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Very few good breeders have websites, because they are breeding their dogs for hobby and not to make money, they just don't have the time.

The breeder you mentioned (South Paw) I have a few questions on:
1. I don't see mention of echo and holter, which is imperative to a breed who's number 1 killer is DCM
2. Thyroid, Kidney, Liver doesn't test as clear. They test as normal and need to be retested every year as things can change.
3. Perhaps I set my standards high, I like Euros, I like American, but those dogs just look backyard bred. I really didn't think any of them met the standard of looks that I like to see in a dog. Euros don't tend to have a body type I like but I like their heads, Americans tend to be flashier but those dogs aren't not the dogs that say "Look at me aren't I the regal, noble steed you always wanted in your home!?!" They kind of look sad to me, just my humble opinion.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Take a look at their website based on what you've learned here on DT....what do you think are some red flags?

https://www.shadygrovekennel.net/default.html
There are several, by the way.


~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
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Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:53 AM
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Plus websites do cost money. Some people would rather put the money back into their dogs.
And with the advent of Facebook pages, many people no longer see the interest in keeping a website when FB is a much more direct form of communication and allows breeders to interact in real time with both current puppy owners and prospective buyers or just people who want to follow the program. It's more accessible as well to people who aren't "techy". Many breeders who have both no longer keep their websites up to date because FB is much easier. So while I personally like being able to hop on a website and get information as dobebug underlined, or get a feel for the breeder's perspective on the breed and breeding... having a website or not, and having a good website or not, is really not an indicator of the breeder's quality or their program's.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Take a look at their website based on what you've learned here on DT....what do you think are some red flags?

https://www.shadygrovekennel.net/default.html
Oh oh I feel like I'm taking a DT Exam! Haha, let's see if I pass...

"Champion" lines and advertising superior/large size. Dobermans are supposed to be medium sized dogs.

The nylon insert during the cropping process? I haven't read anyone here mentioning that. I know the consistent reminder is after cropping, once stitches are removed allow the ear to heal completely before even thinking about posting with a backer rod or something else external.

The buying process seems impersonal. All they want to know is color and gender. A responsible breeder would want to know more about where their puppies are going and what purpose a buyer has for the puppy. Like, are they looking to do conformation, agility, etc., and if the family the puppy is going to has small kids, etc. so they know which puppy may be the best fit and ensure the puppy will be in an environment that's safe for everyone.

I didn't see anything about health testing on either the parents or puppies.

Other than pictures, I couldn't find any information about the sire or dam. If the puppies are from "champion" lines, there should be documented evidence in the parents' histories.

This may be stretching, but do puppies need to have supplements? The website's pushing NuVet Plus supplements and they're being given to the puppies apparently right after they're weaned. Kinda feels like they're looking to make an extra buck because they are distributors and they give out their referral number on the site. I could be wrong, and these may be amazing things, but as a buyer I feel like I'd want the freedom to decide whether or not my puppy gets anything extra put in their system other than their food.

I'm sure there's probably more, but how'd I do? lol
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 02:09 PM
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A few more include:

The partial name of at least one dog's (Cinderella) grandsire. Pierce Patrick od something-that-starts-with-T was a male owned by Kimbertal.

The fact that they are mentioning that their male weighs 105 pounds on all his pictures.

They charge more for full registration.

They charge more for cropping.

And yeah, when I see Nu-vet being pushed, especially if it's a requirement for any kind of health guarantee, is a real turn off for me.
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~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH S-ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~~Requiescat In Pace~~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Very few good breeders have websites, because they are breeding their dogs for hobby and not to make money, they just don't have the time.

The breeder you mentioned (South Paw) I have a few questions on:
1. I don't see mention of echo and holter, which is imperative to a breed who's number 1 killer is DCM
2. Thyroid, Kidney, Liver doesn't test as clear. They test as normal and need to be retested every year as things can change.
3. Perhaps I set my standards high, I like Euros, I like American, but those dogs just look backyard bred. I really didn't think any of them met the standard of looks that I like to see in a dog. Euros don't tend to have a body type I like but I like their heads, Americans tend to be flashier but those dogs aren't not the dogs that say "Look at me aren't I the regal, noble steed you always wanted in your home!?!" They kind of look sad to me, just my humble opinion.
^^^^ This, plus I will add that for the price they are charging you can get a well bred doberman that meets the high standards described above.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermouse0213 View Post
Oh oh I feel like I'm taking a DT Exam! Haha, let's see if I pass...

"Champion" lines and advertising superior/large size. Dobermans are supposed to be medium sized dogs.

The nylon insert during the cropping process? I haven't read anyone here mentioning that. I know the consistent reminder is after cropping, once stitches are removed allow the ear to heal completely before even thinking about posting with a backer rod or something else external.

The buying process seems impersonal. All they want to know is color and gender. A responsible breeder would want to know more about where their puppies are going and what purpose a buyer has for the puppy. Like, are they looking to do conformation, agility, etc., and if the family the puppy is going to has small kids, etc. so they know which puppy may be the best fit and ensure the puppy will be in an environment that's safe for everyone.

I didn't see anything about health testing on either the parents or puppies.

Other than pictures, I couldn't find any information about the sire or dam. If the puppies are from "champion" lines, there should be documented evidence in the parents' histories.

This may be stretching, but do puppies need to have supplements? The website's pushing NuVet Plus supplements and they're being given to the puppies apparently right after they're weaned. Kinda feels like they're looking to make an extra buck because they are distributors and they give out their referral number on the site. I could be wrong, and these may be amazing things, but as a buyer I feel like I'd want the freedom to decide whether or not my puppy gets anything extra put in their system other than their food.

I'm sure there's probably more, but how'd I do? lol
You're doing awesome! I love when people learn to really evaluate breeders on their own.

And of course people have different needs and wants for a breeder - what I want in a breeder isn't necessarily what you want in a breeder, but there's sort of a "minimally acceptable" feeling we all kind of have. There are certainly shades of gray...the older I get, the less things are 100% black and white for me, but I've had a dog from that "type" of breeder, and I can say that I don't want to do it again, for so many reasons. It's not just about ethics, it's about wanting a dog that is predictable in temperament, looks the way a Doberman is meant to look, has a good shot at longevity and good health, and has the type of breeder who will give me the support I want.

Good for you gamer! I think you've got a great start here!
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DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 05:11 AM
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Just a couple of things that stuck out to me at a very quick glance...

1. "We have just completed construction on our new 3000 square foot kennel building which was designed to provide a clean, healthy and happy environment for all of our puppies."

Take a look at the pictures--one shows rows and rows of little wire cubicles, with the caption:
Happy Healthy and Well Socialized!
NONE of our puppies stay in little cages! All of them are housed in 5 x 10 professional kennel pens with a dog house in every pen!
(Somewhere else they point out that each kennel has a rubber mat too.)


2. Puppies don't come with ear cropped except for an additional fee
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