Needing just a little more guidance - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Needing just a little more guidance

Hi everyone. This might get a bit long so I'll try to keep it to a minimum. I went back into the world field (part time) after being a SAHM for over 10 yrs. My husband knows that I'm not completely happy with it I needed to contribute some. About a year and a half almost 2 yrs ago he sat me down and asked me where I seen myself in 5 yrs. I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that I have always wanted a doberman since I was a child so why not raise and breed them and do shows or something with them, plus at some point opening up a small boarding kennel. He was a bit shocked at my response (he thought I wanted to work my way up in the company) he thought about it for a while and then finally agreed that we could buy a female puppy. I studied and studied to learn everything I could about this wonderful breed. I found some wonderful breeders off the DPCA but with just starting out some of the prices were a little out of our range, others were too low and then we ran into the probably of being noobs and no one wanted to sell to us since we had no experience in titling dogs at all. I did finally find a breeder and fell in love with one of her little female pups and decided that was my girl. My Milano is almost 18 months old. Her breeder has been just absolutely awesome and is there anytime I have a question or just want to give her a little update. Shes done all her puppy classes and obedience. We've done 2 levels of agility training and we're hoping to further her training in that all the way to competitions. I plan on doing all of her health testing (told my husband that if she doesn't pass something then we are going to have a very expensive pet) I've started my search for a reputable breeder that has a stud that would be the best suited for my girl. I've found several breeders that have some very handsome dogs but there always seems like theres something wrong (usually with the breeder and their ethics and tactics and just other things) which then makes me second guess if I should use them. I want to be doing this right so I can help this breed last longer and be able to share them with others that have other opinions on them. I'm just at a loss right now on where to go since I have pretty much crossed off all of the breeders on my list (thanks to this site, that's a good thanks) I want a stud with a low COI to my girl, longevity in their pedigree and breed standards. I've checked on the DCPA and the UDC and just cant find the right place to go. Oh I should also say she's of European decent and not American. Please I would appreciate not be bashed at all, I know the dog breeding world is already a hard one to get into if you are doing it right. I unfortunately don't have unlimited funds or time like others might have but every spare second or dollar I have goes towards my Milano (my kids will for sure back me up on that one lol). So any info, direction or comments would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:24 AM
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Welcome TM - from Indiana

And also welcome to DT !

To me - I think - BTW - This is just my thinking - Is - I think I would take it a little slower - This is your first Dobie - There is lots and lots to learn before jumping into the breeding - It takes money to do what you want to do . Kennel = building = money . Testing = money . You really - No lets make this a must - A nice fenced in area = money - years ago - we redid our fenced in area = better than 5 grand .

I would also be careful pushing agility on that young of pup - already did 2 classes ? You need to let there growth plates develop - most times that will happen in 2 years - some earlier - to early and it can cause problems - I would have thought your breeder would have told you to take it easy on her that young - like I said - Just me thinking out loud : )

I am happy for you ! It sounds like you really did know what you wanted out of life - and a Dober can sure work wonders on a person ! : ))

Now my opinion and only mine - I think I would take it a little easier - Enjoy ever second with your little girl - learn her - they have looks that they talk to us with - give yourself some more time to learn and to lean on the posters on here for some guidance - trust me - there are plenty on here that are top of the line breeders and they will give you - there advise and it may not always be what you want to here - but that is what is important in learning - the right ways to do things and the wrong ways .

Well --- better get to work . Stick around and keep asking questions !

Doc
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 02:14 PM
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Welcome to DT. A few things- she's just too young right now to consider breeding her. Mentally and physically. Also, what have you done with her to prove her worthy of being bred? Since she's European, likely not fit for the show ring, does she hold any kind of working titles to prove her working ability? What would her offspring offer the gene pool for future generations? These are the kinds of questions you should be asking yourself and your mentor... if you don't have a mentor, get involved with a doberman breed club or working dog club for starters.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:16 AM
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Since you brought it up...I'm just asking - are you looking at breeding as a way to make income? Because doing it the "right way" generally doesn't make income for you, or, makes very little. Breeding dogs isn't a really a good way to add to the household income. Boarding dogs (the other thing you mentioned) can be a better way to have a little extra money, but that isn't great, either, unless you run a very high end kennel. The pet industry, in general - trainers, dog walkers, vendors of dog gear - you can earn some extra money, but I can tell you I have LOTS of friends in the pet industry, and it is very much NOT a money making business....

Others have already given you good advice as far as what it takes to be a reputable breeder so I won't go there. It's obvious you adore your girl - I'm glad you're hooked on the breed and that you're so involved with doing stuff already! Definitely do be careful, as others have said...hopefully your agility classes are designed for young dogs and aren't putting undo strain on her joints.

I hope you stick around and keep learning.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:37 AM
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I think that no matter what it is you intend to do that you need to invest time at least in meeting and talking to members of the Doberman community at large.

You say your bitch is of European descent--you don't talk about what you've done with her but for starters I'd find someone who is a member of the UDC who is local for you--train your girl in obedience--show her in any conformation UDC shows that come along and get to know other people in the UDC. I'd probably do the same thing with folks involved with breeding of AKC Dobes--find a chapter club, join and get to now breeders, owners, het involved with training your bitch there too.

I think your ultimate goals are admirable but I think you haven't been involved with the rock bottom of starting points yet.

There is a whole laundry list of reasons that I think contribute to your inability to find a male with the qualities you want. Dobermans--are a fairly small closed community. I'm not sure where you are fining information on health testing and that sort o thing but I do know that a lot of the information isn't easy to come by and often is passed word of mouth from breeder to breeder.

If you've been reading some of these forums as well as answers to your own questions you'll see that many of the breeders posting here make a point of how long it was from their first Doberman to their first litter--15 years in one case ande that's notat all unusual.

It takes time to find the right dogs to breed--I have been in Dobes for years--I bred one litter and never wanted to breed another. I'm happy to have good breeders out there with lots of experience do that for me--and their happy for me to have one of their dogs because they know I show in conformation and performance and my dogs are well taken care and they are tested (even though I don't breed them--but their beeders occasionall do) for anything there is attest for.

But one of the thigs that breeders used to alwys tell would be breeders was to fid the very best bitch they could, show her in conformation, titile her in that and anything else you could and find the best stud possible when you were ready to bred and pray for good puppies.

It was good advice then and still good advice now--I wish the breeders who are successful talked about that part of being a breeder.

I wish you the very best of luck but I think you didn't start are the4 starting line but much closer to the finish line which makes it more likely that you will have a difficule time reaching your ultimate goal.

dobebug
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 11:06 AM
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Firstly what is your girl's registered name? And do you have pictures? We always love pictures! (Preferably free-standing or stacked).

Secondly I think you're going about this the wrong way in terms of searching I mean. Many reputable breeders don't even necessarily have stud dogs of their own. A lot of stud dogs are (co-)owned by individuals and the breeder may have retained rights on them but instead of looking for a breeder, you should be looking for a dog. Does that make sense?

Thirdly, you have time! You cannot even x-ray her hips for OFA before she turns 2. Plus this is a breed where health issues that cannot be tested for tend to pop up around age 4-5, and this is a slow-maturing breed so it is not a bad idea to wait until she's closer to 3 or even 4. I know some breeders who will even wait until a bitch is closer to 5 to breed for the first time to try and reduce the chances of early, aggressive DCM.

Fourthly, while titles aren't everything and don't necessarily tell the whole story, since you are just starting out in the breed (and from what I understand are just starting out in performance venues) she is your first bitch, I would at least in your shoes, be working with a mentor or people in the breed who are experienced and who's vision of the breed is similar to yours. What is your vision of the breed? Also important to determine before you start making plans. Have you thought of what you are looking to achieve with your first mating? And then beyond that have you thought about what you'd like to achieve in the next following generation? What is your plan to build your kennel name and your bloodline? You said you found a good breeder - why isn't your breeder helping you with this? Your breeder would know their lines and be able to look at your girl and already make comments about her and they would know what lines or what type of sire *might* complement her. Do their vision of the breed and breeding no longer align with yours? (That's not necessarily a negative but if that's the case then it's all the more reason to look for a good mentor.)

Plus with your girl being so young, I don't think you should even consider breeding her before she has a few titles in either performance or show venues. IF she were older and untitled and there were good reasons for that, then I'd be looking at what she has to offer and I'd be trying to scope out the opinion of experienced people in the breed in terms of what she has to offer to the breed.

For example a very well respected breeder (now retired from breeding) recently said to someone who had a very nice but older bitch that in her opinion the bitch did not need a conformation championship to be bred, as she had good temperament and good structure and correct type - but that she needed to look for a stud with a good rear and from a line with a history of good rears.

Your bitch not even being fully mature (mentally or physically) means you also don't know 100% yet what she is and what she has to offer to the breed. If you had years of experience with the breed and/or years of experience in your chosen venues (show, work, performance etc) then you might be able to know right away if she has that little something extra worth preserving but you don't. Only once she is matured out and you yourself have gotten more mileage in your venues, will you be able to know what she has to offer to the breed (if any) and which of her qualities you'd specifically like to preserve, which ones you'd like to improve and which faults or weaknesses you'd like to attempt to correct. Only once you have determined this, you will be able to start looking for a stud.

Once you know what your goal is for your mating, and what kind of dog would suit your bitch, then you can really narrow down your criteria and look for the dog or dogs you'd like to mate her with. At that point I'd go about searching in multiple manners: actually going to the venues you are interested in and scope out the dobermans there. Spot the dobes who like or get your attention and fit your criteria - talk to their handlers and their owners, find out what their breeding is. Find out who their sire is, or if they're an impressive intact male, ask more questions about them, (temperament, health, pedigree). DON'T try to ask right away about stud services. Get the owner's contact information, go home, do more research on the dog and then add him to your list of probables if everything checks out.

Continue to scope out potential mates like this. Attending venues is the best thing of course, but once you've figured out your line of interest you can also check Doberman-specific magazines. UDC's publication (It's called Focus? I think?) that comes out 4 times a year is an interesting resource, there's also the DPCA's publication.

Make friends, talk to people with loads of experience and knowledge. They might end up having suggestions for you or know of a male that might fit what you're looking for. I cannot stress enough how valuable and precious the friendships I've made through this breed thanks to my girl are and how paramount they will be if I end up breeding.

EDIT: her being european by the way doesn't mean she can't show. AKC, UKC and UDC are all legitimate venues, and by the way the UKC standard is almost identical to the AKC one, and UDC shows often use AKC judges. The main difference is that moderate types have more of a chance of being looked at and recognised as oppposed to in the AKC ring where very typey animals might be more sought after.
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Last edited by Artemis; 06-09-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dobebug;
4074783you'll see that many of the breeders posting here make a point of how long it was from their first Doberman to their first litter--15 years in one case ande that's notat all unusual.
I know that both Fitzmar and I spent 15 years in the breed before ever breeding a litter. Personally, I was on my 4th Doberman before I had one that I bred. It takes time to learn history, pedigrees, training, grooming, showing, general breed knowledge, health, reproduction, first aid, etc. A breeder should be a resource for their puppy buyers and should be able to advise them on their questions whatever they might be.
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Last edited by MeadowCat; 06-09-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
I know that both Fitzmar and I spent 15 years in the breed before ever breeding a litter. Personally, I was on my 4th Doberman before I had one that I bred. It takes time to learn history, pedigrees, training, grooming, showing, general breed knowledge, health, reproduction, first aid, etc. A breeder should be a resource for their puppy buyers and should be able to advise them on their questions whatever they might be.
^^^^^ This!! I was on my 3rd bitch before I bred a litter. I also was a stay at home mom to 2 girls, and it was not easy to find the money to show and health test...... not to mention save the money you need to have before breeding a litter. Don't ever be in a hurry to breed as you only get one chance to make a good first impression. Titling and doing stuff with the girl you have now is a very good start - if there is a local Doberman club, join it. If not, start going to local shows or events and start meeting local reputable Doberman people. Finding mentors means that you have to get out there and meet them. Once you have owned a Doberman and done what you can with it - shown that you are willing to do what it takes, it will be easier to find a truly good breeder that will sell to you .... most likely on a co-ownership.
Hang in there and truly plan to do it right - we need new people in the breed that are willing to be a true guardian of the breed.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha Moore View Post
I found some wonderful breeders off the DPCA but with just starting out some of the prices were a little out of our range, others were too low and then we ran into the probably of being noobs and no one wanted to sell to us since we had no experience in titling dogs at all. I did finally find a breeder and fell in love with one of her little female pups and decided that was my girl. My Milano is almost 18 months old. Her breeder has been just absolutely awesome and is there anytime I have a question or just want to give her a little update.

I've found several breeders that have some very handsome dogs but there always seems like theres something wrong (usually with the breeder and their ethics and tactics and just other things) which then makes me second guess if I should use them. I want to be doing this right so I can help this breed last longer and be able to share them with others that have other opinions on them. I'm just at a loss right now on where to go since I have pretty much crossed off all of the breeders on my list (thanks to this site, that's a good thanks) I want a stud with a low COI to my girl, longevity in their pedigree and breed standards. I've checked on the DCPA and the UDC and just cant find the right place to go. Oh I should also say she's of European decent and not American.

Please I would appreciate not be bashed at all, I know the dog breeding world is already a hard one to get into if you are doing it right. I unfortunately don't have unlimited funds or time like others might have but every spare second or dollar I have goes towards my Milano (my kids will for sure back me up on that one lol). So any info, direction or comments would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I have a few comments about what you said and suggestions. I tried to only put in quotes what I wanted to reply too.

It kind of scares me that some prices were out of your range as you can't put a price on longevity and health with good conformation and the breeder that follows behind it. Also, I don't know very many breeders that will turn their nose to a newbie who wants to show, they may however turn their nose up to someone who's main focus is price and who wants to get into breeding. I'm wondering if you weren't rubbing breeders the wrong way with your approach? Many people do that unknowingly. Many of the first questions out of a potential buyers mouth is price and what all comes along with that price and that they would like to be a breeder and all of that might sound good to you but that's the scariest thing a breeder can hear. Also, surprised to hear that you picked your girl, most breeders pick the puppy for the puppy buyers.

You said you found your breeder on the DPCA website and they produce only euros? I'd love to know who your breeder is as I don't know too many who strictly breed euros. Also, your breeder should be your mentor and helping you find stud dogs as it takes countless hours of research to find the right stud dog. What do they say about you wanting to breed your bitch who lacks titles? I assume their dogs have titles? They should also have connections for you to find the right stud dog. My breeder and I spend countless hours talking about stud dogs and I have no plans to breed my 15mo. old bitch for well over a year.

For more information on finding a stud dog I would also suggest subscribing to the Doberman Network magazine, going to dog shows and trying to make it out to the Doberman nationals in Kansas this October. Although you will be hard pressed to find a reputable breeder, with a titled stud dog that has been proven with get, titles, longevity, health and such that would be willing to breed to a bitch with no titles. I agree with above where they said you need to prove her conformation in the ring wither AKC, UKC, UDC or international and also try getting some obedience titles on her as well. The stud dog owner isn't just breeding their dog to your bitch, they are putting their lines/their name behind your lines/your name. Breeders work too hard, and spend too much money to let their good name be floated around to just any breeder. A woman came to me wanting to breed to Mav, nice bitch, had titles, health tested and I said no. Why? They had nearly the same faults so we would be doubling up on those faults and really not improving the breed. There's just sooooo much that goes into breeding. I hope you can find someone that's in the DPCA that would be willing to be your mentor and spend the next few years joining facebook groups, going to shows, reading all the information out there possible and then decide to breed.

If I'm honest, your post doesn't rub me as someone who wants to learn about the breed, improve the breed, improve health (COI is such a tiny fraction of what needs to go into a breeding program)..... It comes off as someone looking for a stud dog. As someone who's barely tipping my toes into the whole breeding thing I can tell you we get a lot of shady people who walk the walk and talk the talk until they have a puppy and then you see their true colors so we look for things that seem off. Your post seems off to me, not genuine, if you will. I could be reading into it incorrectly but it just comes off to me that you want to be a breeder, not for hobby, but for income. I'm sorry if that's not how you meant to come off but I'm just giving you my honest opinion (It's kind of what I do). As someone who got my first Doberman puppy in 2014 and had no intentions of competing with her, she was just a pet, but one thing led to another and I thought of breeding her. I'm glad I didn't because I have learned so much About myself and what I'm wanting out of the breed and what I'm wanting to give back to the breed... I wish you and your girl much luck. If you have true intentions and thick skin you will learn a lot in the years to come.

Best of luck
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for not responding yet to everyone's comments. I will get to them all hopefully tomorrow. But just to clear up a few things quickly, when I said some pups were out of my price range when looking for one orginally that was mainly a $5000 puppy so at that moment a puppy that costed more then my husbands daily driver to work did not stand too well with him. I do realize that a respectable breeder (one who does everything right) does not make a huge profit if any off of their puppies because it goes back into the dogs. If I honestly cared just about the money then I wouldn't be on here asking questions. The boarding part is something that I would like to do later on down the road and again I'm not going to become a millionaire with it. I'm a huge animal lover and would rather be doing something I love (like raising, working,showing or boarding animals) then make a bunch of money at a job that I could care less about on certain days. I know about all the health testing that needs to be done and the time frame that they are to be done in. So of course her hips and elbows won't be done until after shes 2. But I'm always open to learning more then what I have learned already. Theres always something new that can help me be better at this. And I really don't mean to come of catty at all it's just I guess how I sound at 11pm when I've been in bed for 2 hrs and still can't sleep lol. Thanks everyone.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 05:25 AM
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I know for me that my mentioning the timeframe for health test is more as a matter of making you realize you have a lot of time yet. Plus it can be heartbreaking to have things all planned out only for her hips to come back with a Borderline score. Or say she might be a carrier of vWD then that might restrict prospective mates. What if her heart comes back with acceptable but low EF values at 3? It is more in that sense. Also because you aren't currently working with a mentor or references in the Doberman community yet, many people won't even want to discuss stud service until after the health testing is all done. Since your original question is about how to find a stud, we are just trying to outline the best way to go about it, while also pointing out the obstacles you're currently facing and how to overcome them.

It's also hard to give specific suggestions without seeing your bitch or her pedigree.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Sorry for not responding yet to everyone's comments. I will get to them all hopefully tomorrow. But just to clear up a few things quickly, when I said some pups were out of my price range when looking for one orginally that was mainly a $5000 puppy so at that moment a puppy that costed more then my husbands daily driver to work did not stand too well with him. I do realize that a respectable breeder (one who does everything right) does not make a huge profit if any off of their puppies because it goes back into the dogs. If I honestly cared just about the money then I wouldn't be on here asking questions. The boarding part is something that I would like to do later on down the road and again I'm not going to become a millionaire with it. I'm a huge animal lover and would rather be doing something I love (like raising, working,showing or boarding animals) then make a bunch of money at a job that I could care less about on certain days. I know about all the health testing that needs to be done and the time frame that they are to be done in. So of course her hips and elbows won't be done until after shes 2. But I'm always open to learning more then what I have learned already. Theres always something new that can help me be better at this. And I really don't mean to come of catty at all it's just I guess how I sound at 11pm when I've been in bed for 2 hrs and still can't sleep lol. Thanks everyone.
I would really recommend, as I think a few others have, that you get connected with a DPCA chapter club and find a mentor. I don't know any reputable breeders that are charging $5000 a pup, so I think you need someone to help guide you. It can be so challenging when you're just starting out to separate the good from the bad, and to understand everything, and it really helps to have someone who can mentor you.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:50 AM
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I'm not a breeder, Tasha, just a longtime fan of the breed. I will say before you go forward with breeding, make sure you watch the video posted in https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...dcm-dobes.html. It should be mandatory viewing for anyone considering breeding. That 58% of the breed has been verified by multiple separate studies. Consider how you'll feel if you sell someone a puppy and their dog dies at the age of two. Or four. A goodly percentage of the posters on this forum have had the experience of having one of their dogs die from DCM. Or have come to the website seeking more information on how to deal with the disease after having it diagnosed in their pet.

If you're serious about wanting help from the people here, you NEED to post your dog's registered name. From that people here can guide you through tracking her pedigree and the information available out there. At the end of the thread I linked are three links on European doberman pedigrees that could be helpful.

Do a search on the threads here about people interested in breeding. There's a lot of experience on this website with respect to what you could be getting into, financially and emotionally. Keep in mind that part of being a breeder is establishing a network of support so that if you sell a puppy and something happens--health issues, behavioral issues, financial issues--and s/he is returned, you have the resources to be able to care for it and rehouse it.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
I know that both Fitzmar and I spent 15 years in the breed before ever breeding a litter. Personally, I was on my 4th Doberman before I had one that I bred. It takes time to learn history, pedigrees, training, grooming, showing, general breed knowledge, health, reproduction, first aid, etc. A breeder should be a resource for their puppy buyers and should be able to advise them on their questions whatever they might be.
I agree with you there, MaryAndDobes. And years of study and preparation can SOMETIMES even go a LONNNNNG way. Why, as I check some of these comments on my own program over, I myself note that YOU YOURSELF are among the many fanciers worldwide who recognize my name and remember the SONGBIRD concept I instituted... which stands on just my debut with a bitch decades ago in DQ magazine! Also, regarding the unique American stud dog I selected in laying out the SONGBIRD blue-print, I note that Europe has since then embraced it's TYPE and made it, in fact, the WORLD-DOMINANT type. But Europe is not exactly getting it right. So following nearly 34 unique years of sitting out of dog shows and breeding... with my uniquely small number of 3 successively born dogs, I decided to return. And I STILL plan on striving to do as much as I can in ways that are important. The art, the science and the future of the breed has always been more important to me than my OWN very being in the sport of it! M.D.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:30 PM
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In clarification on one point I mentioned, during these passing years here at SONGBIRD, I was exploring a creation of a Dobermann Pinscher variant... the breed seen in alternative colors. But I suffered two assassination attempts, which twice delayed my work. This is a return to assist in the breeding of Dobermann Pinschers, as I think internationalizing the breed in it's type is the sane thing for some breeder to do. Europe is, to it's greater extent, failing the breed conformationally. But we in America are, at this time, health-wise and numbers-wise, just a candle in the wind criticizing it. M.D.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Deyah'na View Post
In clarification on one point I mentioned, during these passing years here at SONGBIRD, I was exploring a creation of a Dobermann Pinscher variant... the breed seen in alternative colors. But I suffered two assassination attempts, which twice delayed my work. This is a return to assist in the breeding of Dobermann Pinschers, as I think internationalizing the breed in it's type is the sane thing for some breeder to do. Europe is, to it's greater extent, failing the breed conformationally. But we in America are, at this time, health-wise and numbers-wise, just a candle in the wind criticizing it. M.D.
Michael,

When you say you were exploring creation of a Doberman variant-were you thinking of producing colors other than black, red (or Brown if you are European), blue and fawn with rust/tan markings?

I wondered because even when I was initially considering Dobermans (1958) and looked at colors in both the German and the North American standards I know that genetics had progressed far enough to KNOW that fawn, which Germany had passed on because they considered Fawn to be a degenerative color. I basically shook my head wondering how they could accept blue and not fawn.

But if you were trying to produce more than the four colors--what breeds, in what colors were you thinking of adding to accomplish this?

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Deyah'na View Post
In clarification on one point I mentioned, during these passing years here at SONGBIRD, I was exploring a creation of a Dobermann Pinscher variant... the breed seen in alternative colors. But I suffered two assassination attempts, which twice delayed my work. This is a return to assist in the breeding of Dobermann Pinschers, as I think internationalizing the breed in it's type is the sane thing for some breeder to do. Europe is, to it's greater extent, failing the breed conformationally. But we in America are, at this time, health-wise and numbers-wise, just a candle in the wind criticizing it. M.D.
Quote:
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Michael,

When you say you were exploring creation of a Doberman variant-were you thinking of producing colors other than black, red (or Brown if you are European), blue and fawn with rust/tan markings?

I wondered because even when I was initially considering Dobermans (1958) and looked at colors in both the German and the North American standards I know that genetics had progressed far enough to KNOW that fawn, which Germany had passed on because they considered Fawn to be a degenerative color. I basically shook my head wondering how they could accept blue and not fawn.

But if you were trying to produce more than the four colors--what breeds, in what colors were you thinking of adding to accomplish this?

dobebug
Please take this to a new thread, if you'd like to continue this conversation, so this thread can remain on topic. The OP is searching for a puppy, and I this will diverge into something that is really off what the original post is about - helping the poster with breeder recommendations.


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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 02:52 PM
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"Please take this to a new thread,"

Yeah... Please take it to Mars... (Not you bug. LOL)

John
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:27 PM
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Yeah... Ok red colored monikers...

I'll shut up

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 10:31 AM
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Ewwwww! My apologies guys--I sure wish Michael Deyah'na would start a thread of his own so see more o his breeding plans and how his first attempts went.

I still (even with advanced searches) am only getting four posts from Michael to come up--the first two in the thread where he got doghoused and now the two in this thread.

Hmmm--guess I'll go try another search.

My apologies MeadowCat and all...

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 10:36 AM
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Ewwwww! My apologies guys--I sure wish Michael Deyah'na would start a thread of his own so see more o his breeding plans and how his first attempts went.

I still (even with advanced searches) am only getting four posts from Michael to come up--the first two in the thread where he got doghoused and now the two in this thread.

Hmmm--guess I'll go try another search.

My apologies MeadowCat and all...

dobebug
No worries. I just don't want things to go so off track we lose the OP

By the way, you can click on a member's name to go to their profile, and then click the "statistics" tab to see all of their posts. There are two options under statistics - either all threads started by the member, or all posts. That may help you?

Now, back on topic!


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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 03:01 PM
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Listen up, folks - I have been abundantly clear - this thread needs to remain on-topic. I have removed a few posts that were off-topic after my last warning (see above). If it happens again, folks WILL be receiving temporary site bans, and please remember that it's a three strikes and you're out policy on this forum.

I don't like to have to use my "mod hat" often and I sure don't like to have to be crabby, but I've asked nicely already. Enough.


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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 10:05 PM
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So...

Hey Tasha! Please come back. As MC said, this thread got somewhat derailed.

That's pretty unusual here.

So, If you will return, I am sure folks will get back to trying to answer your questions.

Best to you and your search.

John
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