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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Looking for All Natural Doberman Puppy

Hi everyone
This is my first post on DT. Our 13 year old all natural dobbie just passed away and we feel a huge gap in our lives. Looking for reputable breeders that are willing to sell us an all natural female puppy (ears and tail intact) in the next few months. We live in Southern California. Thanks for your help!
Sian

ps I know people have thoughts on docking or not docking but that is not why I am here. Thank you
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 09:43 PM
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Hi Sian! And welcome from the Pacific NW.

Living on the West Coast, you are fortunate to have many great breeders in your area. Not so much in SoCal, but heading North or slightly East, you should find a great pup.

That being said.... You will probably have zero chance of getting a Doberman from a reliable and reputable breeder who does the requisite health testing and has competition accolades that will sell a pup uncropped, with the tail undocked, and the dew claws not removed.

In the US, the Doberman breed is considered a "Cropped and Docked" dog.

My thought is: If you want a great heathy Doberman dog, don't swim upstream. Research the really good breeders on the West Coast and accept the fact that a good dog will come at 8-10 weeks with its ears cropped, its tail docked and dew laws removed.

This is just reality.

You can research NW Breeders here on DT. You can start here:
https://www.dobermantalk.com/northwe...est-coast.html
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 10:02 PM
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I am sorry for the loss of your dog. Thirteen years is a long time to make memories and their loss must be painful.

However, your time line for the purchase of a well bred dog is not super realistic. Breeders who title, health test, and pay attention to proper temperaments typically have substantial wait lists.

Furthermore, the AKC standard for a Doberman includes cropping and docking. The Canadian KC standard *does* allow for a natural ear, but not tail. The Doberman is a historically cropped and docked breed and many (most?) breed enthusiasts would like them to remain that way.

You may have better luck finding what you want from a working breeder. You will need to be ready for a significant commitment to training, exercising, and managing said dog and their drive.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 11:46 PM
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I'm so sorry for your loss.
There are many wonderful dogs, many uncropped and undocked, in Dobe specific rescue. Often they are there through no fault of their own.
Please consider a reputable rescue, they sometimes even have puppies.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:34 AM
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Those are all great suggestions and information given by other members. A working bred doberman can be A LOT of dog even for someone with doberman experience, but a good place to start to look for a working breeder is the United Doberman Club website. Asking any "show" breeders for a natural puppy is going to be a complete dead end, so don't even bother (just being honest).
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:40 AM
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What others have already said about finding a well bred Doberman with ears and a tail is about 99% true. There is one reputable breeder in Virginia, Kathy Davids DVM- Jeseran Dobermans, that does not automatically crop. She does not breed often and has a long waiting list.

Your other possibility is with a working breeder - they will leave puppies natural in order to compete in working venues in countries that don't allow cropping and docking (like Germany). The downside for a pet home is that these dogs are bred to work, and are not generally suited to life in a laid back pet home. To look up working breeders, look to the UDC (United Doberman Club) instead of the DPCA.

Your last possibility for an all natural Doberman is looking to rescue. You won't find a well bred Doberman this way, but you will occasionally find all natural Dobermans. Some idiots that breed their pet Doberman are astounded to find out that they are not born with docked tails and cropped ears, and therefore have no idea how to go about having it done and/or are too lazy/cheap to bother.

It is pretty easy to find disreputable breeders that don't crop, but most of them dock as docking needs to be done by the time the puppies are 5 days old. The downside here is that they don't generally have well bred dogs to begin with and rarely do more than a vet check for health. They don't find the best dog for their bitch .... generally its their own dog or a friends. They don't stand behind their dogs and don't take them back if needed..... hence they end up in rescue.

Good luck to you - I'm sorry for your loss, and understand why you want what you want. However, if you want a well bred Doberman you may need to reevaluate.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 09:46 AM
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I just want to pop in to say that Kathy Davieds' waiting list is at least 2+ years long...I'm in pretty regular contact with her. I love her dogs, and she's a great breeder, but I do hesitate to send people her way now just because I know that most people realistically aren't going to wait that long. I don't know if she has many people she can refer out to that would also sell a well bred, natural eared Doberman.

I don't know anyone except working line breeders that leave dogs all natural in this country. If you are interested in those types of breedings, it's certainly worth looking at. I think your only other option would be to import from a country that doesn't crop and dock - there are some lovely breeders in the UK (even some that use US lines), or Germany, etc. I don't know how difficult that would be for you, but it would be the next option.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I did reach out to Kathy Davieds (i didn't hear back from her but sounds like she is in demand) and some breeders in Australia (where we are from and where we got our previous dobermans) We just love the tail and ears. We have been looking at rescues and will continue to do so. Anyone know of any Canadian breeders who would do all natural?
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 07:32 PM
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I did reach out to Kathy Davieds (i didn't hear back from her but sounds like she is in demand) and some breeders in Australia (where we are from and where we got our previous dobermans) We just love the tail and ears. We have been looking at rescues and will continue to do so. Anyone know of any Canadian breeders who would do all natural?
Please keep us updated! There is nothing wrong with "Natural ears and tails".

Yet, in the US, Folks who breed with the intention of improving the Doberman breed (health wise), send pups to their new home with cropped ears and docked tails. It is just the way it is....

John
Portland OR
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 03:32 AM
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Please keep us updated! There is nothing wrong with "Natural ears and tails".

Yet, in the US, Folks who breed with the intention of improving the Doberman breed (health wise), send pups to their new home with cropped ears and docked tails. It is just the way it is....

John
Portland OR
Just for informational purposes...this has quite a bit to do with breeding to the Standard. In addition to temperament, the DPCA/UDC Standard specifies how the dog should look, and this includes ears and tail.

Taken directly from the DPCA Standard as published (can also be found on the AKC website):
Ears normally cropped and carried erect. (This means ears cropped in the normal fashion, not "usually cropped".)
Tail docked at approximately second joint, appears to be a continuation of the spine, and is carried only slightly above the horizontal when the dog is alert. (This allows no wiggle room, and good luck finding a well bred show dog with a natural tail actually winning in the ring. Judges will find fault here.)

SianP, I agree with the others - you will not find a well bred show line dog in the US with ears and tail. Look to Canada, look to importing from home if need be, and absolutely look at rescues near you. Good luck.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 09:51 PM
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Unfortunately for us in Canada, most provinces are banning or restricting cropping and docking, Alberta being the most recent. However, lots of Canadian breeders will simply travel down the border to crop, so it is well worth a shot to contact one to see if they are willing to leave one natural.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 07:44 AM
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If anyone is still looking, I did see Maura Reilly at Gatehouse recently posted that she had an older pup with natural ears and a docked tail available. She's up in Canada.


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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 10:15 AM
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I believe Sharjet has a natural eared docked female who's around 15mo. old.

I hope you find they puppy you're looking for.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 12:45 PM
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Fabert is still looking to place their older (8-9 month now?) natural eared, docked tail female that didn't cut it as a show ring candidate (beautiful puppy but she didn't enjoy it).
In the provinces where docking has been banned by veterinarians people are doing home docks and a couple are also getting amputation surgeries at the same time as the pups are cropped. So you might possibly be able to find a breeder who will on the hush accept to let an all-natural pup go.

As others have said the only breeders who most consistently and willingly consider all natural pups (both side the border) are working or "total doberman" style breeders - and even so not all of them will be willing. I know quite a fair few working breeders who would rather continue respect the standard and crop and dock, than go compete internationally for example.

The only two such breeders out your way I can think of are Incredible and Vom Landgraf - of the two, to the best of my knowledge (and I could be wrong here) only Vom Landgraf has started doing all-natural, and those dogs are INTENSE. If you don't actively intend to work in a professional capacity or a competitive venue I am not sure she would place a pup with you. Because even her "low" pups are way higher than most people's "low" or even "highs". Wendy works her dogs every single day, if that can give you an idea.

The other breeders I can think of who blend show and working and who are willing to let natural pups go to the right people are in the midwest or western states maybe one or two in the Northeast and there is one person I know from my province who drove all the way down to Louisiana to pick up an all-natural pup from a working breeder using european and south american lines. This particular person already owned an all-natural doberman male so I imagine it was easier for the breeder to decide to sell them an all-natural pup. But for most of these breeders "the right person" will be a working or sport home.

Apexe Dobermans (working breeder in the midwest) are now leaving pups all-natural, with docking and cropping done only on request. Krieghund Dobermanns are located in Michigan, also a working breeder that does all natural.

But again you have to keep in mind that depending on the dogs and depending on the breeders that might be a whole lot of dog for someone who just wants a nice pet. You could consider rescuing perhaps, as all-naturals do turn up in rescues, or if you're willing to live with a docked tail but natural ears, Canada will be an easier avenue.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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But again you have to keep in mind that depending on the dogs and depending on the breeders that might be a whole lot of dog for someone who just wants a nice pet. You could consider rescuing perhaps, as all-naturals do turn up in rescues, or if you're willing to live with a docked tail but natural ears, Canada will be an easier avenue.
As someone thinking about a natural-eared puppy for my next dobie, after rescuing my natural-eared first dobie, and who is willing to drive long-distances, is there a good way to find out which Canadian breeders would leave ears intact and do the requisite health testing to produce sound dogs? Not looking to make any moves immediately, but perhaps in the next two years or so.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 05:49 PM
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As someone thinking about a natural-eared puppy for my next dobie, after rescuing my natural-eared first dobie, and who is willing to drive long-distances, is there a good way to find out which Canadian breeders would leave ears intact and do the requisite health testing to produce sound dogs? Not looking to make any moves immediately, but perhaps in the next two years or so.
Best thing to do is ask. Even those that prefer to let all their dogs go to homes cropped and docked will politely decline rather than be offended by the question. There isn't really a list of breeders who specifically allow natural eared dobes. You're better off asking about health testing first and then asking about the ears.

I'm not real familiar with the Canadian breeders out on the West Coast, the only ones I know of are Supernova Dobermans and Holmrun in BC. Supernova don't breed often but they produce really nice dogs. I do think they health test but I can't vouch for that as I haven't seriously looked into it. Not sure if they let any of their puppies go home uncropped. Additionally Danica and Catherine Eisworth (daughter and mother) are incredibly nice and welcoming people. Met them a few years ago at the DPCC nationals. They recently co-bred a litter with Denmel in Alberta.

Here's the DPCC breeder directory, might be a good place to start.
https://dpcc.ca/xbreeder-directory/
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