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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Puppy question

Hello long time member but first time posting. My dobie boy died a couple of months back and I have recently been looking at getting another one. Well the puppy I have been looking at broke his leg today and I'm nervous now. Him being only 4 weeks old how much will this effect his development?



From Breeder:

Itís all good bank transfer is no problem at all. And yes please come see them all! They love company in fact you will get smothered here lol We did have a bit of a incident today that I was dealing with little man, momma actually stepped on him while she was coming out of the whelping box and he whined so bad and was limping I took him to the vet for X-rays this afternoon and he has a hairline fracture on his leg. So as of right now he has a spoon on for the next 5-7 days just to ensure that he has support while it heals which him being only 4 weeks old Vet assured me he will be fully recovered in merely a week pups grow so fast that anything like his heals very quickly but I do want to make you aware of this as I would want to know as a new puppy parent. I hope this doesnít change your mind but i understand if it does Iím very upfront about things with our pups and donít hold any information from potential owners ever. Heís a very sweet boy he was fast asleep while they wrapped his leg up but I do have pictures of everything that Iím happy to send you his X-rays and I actually took some pics at the vet this morning as well he was just too cute! If you want to wait another week and wait for his spoon to come off and see how he does no problems either just let me know what sounds comfortable for you no worries either way







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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 02:53 PM
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I wish someone else would reply to this that could read xray's.
I never have been able to. I will stick my neck out by saying,
something does not look right here.
I would not go through with the purchase.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 03:13 PM
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Sorry you have lost your boy. As for this pup and breeder- I think I would pass. I don't get a good vibe from their response either- it's sort of brushing off what could certainly be a major problem. If you want to have good chances of getting a happy healthy puppy it's best to look for a breeder who does full health testing on the sire and dam, shows their dogs, and sells the puppies with their tails already docked and ears already cropped (and healed). The best places to search for a breeder like this are through the dpca.org breeder referral page, go to a local dog show, contact a dpca chapter club, or ask for recommendations here on DT. Good luck and remember patience pays off in the end!
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 04:04 PM
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Ok... This is pretty simple to me.

Accidents happen....People, cars, dogs....

Personally, I felt that the breeder's response to a the puppy's injury was a bit too light hearted.

So... Me, unless I had some previous experience with this breeder, I would also pass.

I will say one thing. If you do grab this pup, I would have it spelled out in legalize that if future problems occur as a result of this "negligent" injury to the pup, that the the financial responsibility falls on them.

This is just my opinion.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 08:00 PM
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I'm sorry you lost your boy.

I'd be worried about this guy's social/emotional development, as much as physical. That's a tricky time to be taken out of action ó no learning to play with his littermates, no developing his self-confidence by exploring new things ...

And yeah, I'd be worried about his physical recovery as well. If you're committed to the idea of starting physical therapy with him as soon as you get him, and to working through potential delayed physical and emotional development, might be OK ... but that sounds like a pretty big project for anyone. Especially someone just looking for a nice, sound pet.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 08:03 PM
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I don't know this breeder nor do I know if they are considered reputable. There are a few things that concern me.

Let me preface by saying I'm not a vet or even a tech, but I would want a detailed veterinary opinion on that. Yes, fractured/broken legs heal, but none of us here can really tell you to what degree that may or may not affect any future development of the pup. Thankfully it doesn't appear to have fractured/broken near a growth plate.

Also, I would expect the breeder to offer a follow up veterinary visit and xray after that 7 days to ensure the puppy has healed.

Lastly, the breeder was upfront and honest about it. I can appreciate that. I can also appreciate the fact that accidents do happen sometimes. A bitch can step on a pup and injure it, lay on a pup and smother it, hell, some bitches EAT their puppies. Puppies get their foot hung up in an xpen, trample each other, I mean the list is endless. Basically, **** happens. But I would use this opportunity to take a step back and make sure that you're really dealing with someone reputable before you get any more attached to the little guy.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Conversation with breeder:

Me:
Hello I see you have a litter of dobe pups listed. Was wonder what health tests have been done on parents and do you have any pictures of past litters?

Breeder:
Yes we have two red/rust females and one black/rust males available. Our last litter I have a few pictures from a couple of our pups from a different female same size as this female and the same Dad. Pups are now are now 60lbs at 5 months old I can send a couple pics of our last pups. And we eat for VWD, DCM and DM which I can send all their results if you would like.

***Pictures of past litters***

Mom and Dad



Breeder:
Black/rust male





Breeder:
Two red/rust females

These pics are from last Saturday we are doing professional pictures for their 4 weeks old pics on Tuesday ***msg from 11-25-17***

The little red girl is the runt they will be 8 weeks old on December 22nd pups are $1500 without ear crop and $1800 with ear crop

Pups are Full European with Full papers. They are wormed at 2,4,6,8 weeks old and two sets of shots at 6,8 weeks old as well as microchipped with akc reunite. They are raised inside from day one not outsid eor garage kept they are set up in our living room actually so that they are right near us all Throughout the day as well as super socialized with cats kids other dogs and tons of other animals

Me:
I'm looking at the blk/rust male. Was wonder how you get your vet to dock there tails? Thats actually why I was asking for pics of past litters. As for ear cropping I have been in contact with acouple of different vets about that. Both of which are over 3 hours from where I live and you are 12 hours from me, which is closer then another breeder I'm looking at. lol alot of fun driving for me.

Breeder:
Our Vet docks their tails and removes dewclaws at 3 days old so tails and dewclaws are already done. Iím happy to meet up to save you some Drive time for ground transport we charge .20/mile but your welcome to come meet the parents and meet the pups anytime. Our Vet crops ears at 7.5 weeks old and then we keep them for an additional 10 days unless you have a vet that you can take them to and get their stitches out and post the ears thatís totally upto you tho we always plan to keep until the stitches are removed 8-10 days after crop.

Me:
What vertebrae are they docked at?

Also would you mind me getting him from you uncropped and taking him to another vet to have his ears done?

Nothing against your vet or your dogs! Completely personal preference on my part, I like short tails and medium crops. After a medium teardrop cut. If your vet does a good job and you think I should check them out, please by all means let me know the vet and I'll check them out.


Breeder:
That is absolutely perfectly fine! I prefer myself to have my vet crop my own ears same as you I have a certain preference for shape/length etc. the tails were cropped at the 2nd/3rd vertebra so short tails I normally have the vet during ear crop fix any imperfections at the end of the tail which is a normal thing to do bc I prefer a solid tail no bald tip but docking normally ends up with a small bald spot which is a super easy fix during cropping which we also have our vet do during the crop our vet does amazing ear crops in fact we Drive almost 2 hours to go to him been cropping with him for 3 yrs now we do a medium long crop for all our pups



Breeder:
Hereís a pic of the crop we do

***Picture of one of her dogs, same crop as some of her other dogs.***

Breeder:
Our crops, tail docking and dewclaws we do at ***********************

Me:
"I normally have the vet during ear crop fix any imperfections at the end of the tail"

I have seen so many breeders/vets not do this. So you gained a lot of respect from me!

I'm very interested in the little dobe boy with full rights. How much of a deposit and how would you like it sent?

If I would get your vet to do the crop, when would be the earliest I could come pick him up? I have a really good vet I trust to remove the stitches and post the ears. I also have no problem driving home Christmas eve, if that is even possible.


Breeder:
Well thank you! I feel the end of the tail is definitely more of ďcosmeticĒ thing but I have two dobies that the breeder didnít do it and it looks terrible now that their grown so I always have the tails fixed while ear crop is done my vet only charges me $5 to fix the tails which is well worth it lol Deposit with ear crop is $800. The remaining of $1000 (in cash or PayPal) is due at pick up, deposit can be anyway you want to do it check, bank transfer, or PayPal. With PayPal I do require an extra 3% as thatís what PayPal charges me. And if you have a vet that can take out stitches he can go home at 8 weeks on December 22nd after his full check up and second shots. Ear crops are done at 7.5 weeks old on December 18th at *************. So anytime after the 22nd he can go home with you, let me know how you would like to do your deposit and we can go from there 😁

Me:
Sorry about the late reply, had an accident with my phone earlier this morning. Bank transfer would be preferred.

My last dobie had the bald spot at the end of his tail so I know what you mean. That one little error that stands out.

Also thanks for offering to meet me but I'm fine with driving the whole way there. Get to see your other dogs 😉


Breeder:
tís all good bank transfer is no problem at all. And yes please come see them all! They love company in fact you will get smothered here lol We did have a bit of a incident today that I was dealing with little man, momma actually stepped on him while she was coming out of the whelping box and he whined so bad and was limping I took him to the vet for X-rays this afternoon and he has a hairline fracture on his leg. So as of right now he has a spoon on for the next 5-7 days just to ensure that he has support while it heals which him being only 4 weeks old Vet assured me he will be fully recovered in merely a week pups grow so fast that anything like his heals very quickly but I do want to make you aware of this as I would want to know as a new puppy parent. I hope this doesnít change your mind but i understand if it does Iím very upfront about things with our pups and donít hold any information from potential owners ever. Heís a very sweet boy he was fast asleep while they wrapped his leg up but I do have pictures of everything that Iím happy to send you his X-rays and I actually took some pics at the vet this morning as well he was just too cute! If you want to wait another week and wait for his spoon to come off and see how he does no problems either just let me know what sounds comfortable for you no worries either way

***Saving room, she sent me the pics that are in the first post***

Me:
Yes I would like to wait on the deposit and could I please gets some more pics. Did your vet get any x-rays of his other leg for comparison or any other angles of the hurt leg? Also would you mind if I contact your vet about the little dobie boy. I talked to my vet today just to get a second opinion and he gave me some question to ask. Thank you for letting know about this, **** happens. I'm still interested in him just when dishing out that much money I want to make sure there are no problems down the road because of this.

Breeder:
Yes absolutely I totally and completely understand and you can absolutely call my vet I only took the one picture with my phone of the X-rays but there was 3 taken total you are more than welcome to call them up he could probably send the X-rays to your Vet so he can look at them, they also took one view of both legs side by side to ensure no other issues and he took two views of the leg the one view you couldnít see anything out of place until the side view which I took a pic with my phone while we were there my Vet is Dr ***** itís************** here in ****** their number is ***-***-**** they are open today until 530 so your welcome to call them and talk to my vet about it no biggie at all and he can answer any questions you may have.

Breeder:
My bet called me and I guess bc the pup still is considered my pup they canít send you the X-rays but they are emailing them to me including the drs notes and and I can email them to you what is your email address?









Breeder:
Hereís pics of him just now lol heís getting lots of extra cuddles now

***She did send me some more pics of the pup and her son. Only uploading one though because it show a good pic of the splint going up to the elbow and stopping***



Me:
How badly did his nails get hurt?

Breeder:
Haha his nails are painted in bright orange he never had any issue with his nails I painted them bc my sister took him to the vet for his appointment since I wasnít going to be out in time to get there on time so I met her there and that way she knew what paw needed X-rays
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscythe View Post
Conversation with breeder:

And we eat for VWD, DCM and DM which I can send all their results if you would like.
Obviously she means test rather than eat. I personally have a number of concerns with this puppy, and the broken leg is a very small part of my concerns.

As for the testing, this is all well and good, however, there are some very important things missing here. For the DCM test make sure she isn't JUST doing the DNA tests - you want to see a recent 24-hour Holter and an Echo-cardiogram. Missing tests: (OFA or PennHIP) certification for hips. Liver, Kidney and Thyroid tests. I also want to see NT-ProBNP and Troponin. All of this for both parents and current.

If you decide to look elsewhere for a puppy, come back her for recommendations. There are some excellent breeders in TX, as well as AR, MO and surrounding states.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2017, 12:21 PM
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I also would walk away from this breeder for a lot of reasons. Take a look at this buying guide: https://dpca.org/BreedEd/buying-a-doberman-pinscher/

There are several red flags with this breeder. First, no breeder should be charging you differently for cropped verses uncropped puppies. Good breeders handle the crop for you. They should not be charging you for "ground transport"...I'm worried that they want to meet you off site somewhere, which makes me worried that they don't want you to actually see where the puppies are raised.

It also seems like they are willing to sell their puppies to anyone willing to pay for them, rather than actually screening potential buyers to ensure that puppies are all placed appropriately. Pups should be matched to the homes that best suit them rather than whomever chooses them - a breeder should make sure a puppy's personality matches what a buyer wants to be sure they are a good fit for the household. You don't want to send a high drive puppy that needs a "job" to a home that wants an occasional hiking partner but mostly a couch potato!

We'd be happy to help you find a more ethical breeder. Taking your time to find the right breeder really pays off because you'll have a dog that fits your family and a great breeder to support you.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2017, 01:59 PM
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So many reasons to walk away from this breeder..... one of which is if that is the bitch’s date of birth on the vet receipt, then she’s not even a year and a half old yet.


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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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