Looking to find a Santa puppy. (ISO Breeder Recommendations) - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Looking to find a Santa puppy. (ISO Breeder Recommendations)

So instead of Christmas presents this year, the SO and I have decided we are going to get ourselves a Doberman puppy. We spent a lot of time researching the perfect breed for us, and Dobermans have repeatedly been our top pick.

We both have had multiple dogs in our past(Rottweilers x4, pitbulls x2, labs, and a Germand Shepherd), and both share the same values of how a dog should be trained/loved. This isnt going to be just a dog, this is going to be our child. We have a few acres of land, both have the ability to take our dog to work occasionally (him more than I), and both definitely understand the responsibility. Not our first puppy, just our first one together and first one from a breeder. We also have agreed that before we get said puppy, we will have our fully functioning dog kennel completed (inside and outside runs, automatic water feeders, A/C and heat) with space for two dogs. Being practical, we know there are just some places we go that a dog is not allowed, so we needed a place to rest assured our dog would be comfortable and safe. That being said..

Temperament is the most important characteristic to us. Health being equally important. We are looking for a black & tan Male Doberman puppy to purchase near Christmas. We would like ear cropping/tail docking to be offered by the breeder (is that a reasonable request?), and the price to preferably be $2k or less. We would not be looking to show or breed our Dobie.

We are hoping to get a recommendation of a breeder within 4-6 hours of Maryland. One that allows visitation on request, and values the same thing in a puppy as we do. Temperament, and health.

Below are the 3 breeders we had been recommended so far(and in order of interest):

New York Dobermans
Ostertag Kennels
Canis Maximus

Does anyone have any reviews or recommendations on these breeders? Or are there other breeders nearby that may be better suited for what we are looking for? Also, what are the most important questions you would ask of a breeder before purchasing? I plan on contacting atleast the three breeders we narrow it down to, and would like to ask them some questions about their dogs/facilities before we make the drive to see them.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.McCrae View Post

Below are the 3 breeders we had been recommended so far(and in order of interest):

New York Dobermans
Ostertag Kennels
Canis Maximus

Does anyone have any reviews or recommendations on these breeders? Or are there other breeders nearby that may be better suited for what we are looking for? Also, what are the most important questions you would ask of a breeder before purchasing? I plan on contacting atleast the three breeders we narrow it down to, and would like to ask them some questions about their dogs/facilities before we make the drive to see them.

Thanks in advance!
I recommend none of the above. I know that NY Dobermans and Canis Maximus have been discussed here. Doing a forum search for them will bring up lots of info. Either just enter their name in the search box, or else use your regular search engine and search for "kennel name DobermanTalk".

I don't recall Ostertag being mentioned, but a quick glance at their website tells me I wouldn't be interested in getting a pup from them. The one pedigree they show has Kimbertal (huge puppy mill) and Hungs (another puppy mill that got raided last year, and who was convicted of animal cruelty). You can also do a forum search on them, as well.

Have you looked at the DPCA breeder list? While it's not perfect, it's a good place to start.


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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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None of those breeders are ones I would recommend people get a puppy from.

Instead of rushing to get a puppy for Christmas I would worry more about ethical breeding than availability.

Puppy will be part of your life for a Very long time so a healthy well bred dog should be higher on the list than time frame.


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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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Here is the link to the DPCA list. DPCA | The Doberman | Breeder Referral

A few other points....
a) Don't bother building a kennel. Dobes are people dogs, and will be living inside with you. While a secure yard is an excellent idea, you won't be leaving them outside.

b) Good breeders usually have a waiting list, and might not have an available pup, even if they have a litter on the ground.


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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SieYa View Post
None of those breeders are ones I would recommend people get a puppy from.

Instead of rushing to get a puppy for Christmas I would worry more about ethical breeding than availability.

Puppy will be part of your life for a Very long time so a healthy well bred dog should be higher on the list than time frame.

We are in no rush. It was just our gift to each other, the process of buying a puppy together. Sorry to seem like we NEEDED to have a puppy by Christmas, that's not a concern. We are more than happy to take our time and wait for the RIGHT puppy from the breeder we decide on.

Also, Rosemary mentioned to not build a kennel. Regardless of when we get a puppy, we are building a kennel. We just recently put up a new shop that actually has left over walls that would be the perfect size for a run-in shed. Probably going to be around 10 x 16 shed, half inside/half outside. We have a left over A/C unit to put in the window, and heating it wont be much of an issue for us either. This is not for the dog to spend its days in. The dog will be in the home with us, crate trained, but will eventually sleep in our bedroom with us. The dog will be taken to work probably daily with my boyfriend, will be on most of our adventures, but we cannot rely on other people to let our dog out for us if we have to go out of town (say, for a wedding. We have 7 weddings to attend this year, 3 of which are out of state). This way, we can have a family member check on the dog daily, but not have to worry about our beloved pup running out of water, or shelter. Also not have to worry about our pup being stuck in a crate all day. We have the means to build a great kennel for cheap, so that's what our plan is.

I will take a look at the link provided. While doing so, could you all recommend what you would ask of a breeder during first contact? I have mostly adopted, so smart things to ask of a potential breeder would be greatly beneficial.
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 07:57 AM
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Dobermans are the original personal protection dog. They live to be near their family and do not make good kennel dogs. They must be house dogs. If you want to keep the dog in a kennel, please seek another breed that tolerates living in a dog run/kennel better than a Doberman.

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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 08:45 AM
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Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of Dobermans! Great advice already given above.

As for the shed/kennel idea... You can always bring your Dobe to a doggie daycare when you go away instead of opting to leave them in an indoor outdoor kennel. Dobermans are such social dogs, and if I understand you right, you want to go be able to leave your dog in the indoor/outdoor kennel to be checked on once a day by a family member?

Some breeds may be able to handle this, but Dobermans aren't one of those breeds. They need interaction and not just a 'ok you have food and water, see you tomorrow' kind of dog. I highly recommend rethinking the shed idea and instead researching local dog daycares that will be able to ensure your dobe is well taken care of should you have wedding or places to travel. We bring Zuko to his daycare whenever we travel (every few weeks) and he is given lots of attention, room to run around and constant supervision.

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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Kennel must be a trigger word, since I requested breeder recommendations and which questions to ask of a breeder.. yet to receive answers of that, although the link was pretty helpful.

Please let me reiterate. My dog will NOT be a kennel dog. If we are to go on vacation, it would go to my parents house which is a large farm and 24/7 supervision. But they live two hours away. I can't take my dog there every time we want to go to dinner down the road. We go out to dinner maybe once every three months, all other meals are prepared at home by me. There are boarders within 30mins of us, but the prices are outrageous, and the reviews aren't great either.

If we were to go out to dinner, you would prefer that we leave our beloved in a crate, with a bowl of water that it could knock over as soon as we set foot out of the door? Or should it be allowed to roam our house freely? I have never had any of my previous dogs allowed to roam the house freely while we were home, all have always had an outside pen to go into. I would much rather prefer that my dog go into a large kennel area that has a constant supply of fresh water, heat & air conditioning and room to move about, and plenty of toys to keep him occupied.

If we are home, our dog is going to be at our side. It will be allowed to sleep in our bedroom with us, and will be going to work every day with either my SO or I. If we have to leave town for a few hours for a wedding, I do not see the harm in allowing it to stay in our kennel. I mean this kennel is basically going to be nicer than our own house... plus we have a neighbor that is within a few hundred feet of us, and always home.

It may be in this kennel under 10 hours throughout the entire year, so I am really failing to see the fault in this..
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the double post, but to get back on topic...

I reached out to New York Dobermans(boyfriend's request), Raindance Dobermans, BellaCane Dobermans, Kelview Dobermans, and Dei Dohse(sp?). We also looked into Canis Maximus, but after reading that report about what the investigators found, I am going to definitely pass.

So far I have only heard back from Raindance Dobermans and NY Dobermans. We decided that although it be a decent breeder, Raindance was not a good fit for what we are looking for.

Meghan with NY Dobermans has been very quick to respond and very forth coming with information. I know she is not a fan favorite here, that I have read about, but we have friends that have two of her puppies, and they highly recommend her.

I really liked Kelview. I really hope to hear a reply from them.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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So, just to refresh my memory, I looked at the NY Dobermans site again. Still no titles. Still skimpy, and somewhat misleading, health testing, like "DCM: Negative" (and what's up with all the hips rated as only Fair?). What are they doing with their dogs besides breeding them? Nothing, that I can see.


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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 11:09 AM
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Here are some threads from this forum you could look through:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...k-breeder.html

https://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com...er-ettiquette/



Quoting WorkingK9s, a member of this forum:

There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

1. Health testing.
It is no shock that this is a breed that is plauged by more health problems than most. A breeder who doesn't health test cannot be reputable in my eyes. My own criteria for health testing is that brefore being bred a dog should have at minimum cardio tests (this has gotten more complicated but hopefully we are moving forward with progress), vWD and hips. That is minimum. I prefer also CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork as well. For those breeders who say the pups have been checked... yes, the pups should have seen a vet at some point, but the majority of the health exams should belong to the parents.

2. Some kind of certification in a venue.
If you are looking at a working prospect, the parents of the litter should have working titles. If you are looking for a show prospect, the parents should be active in conformation shows. Just looking for a pet? Well, there are pet puppies in every litter so you are in luck! You can still get a pup from titled parents, usually for the same price as gimmick breeders. I.e. Family Dobes sells for 2500 with no ear crops and non-titled, or low titled parents. While there are always exceptions to the rules, in general breeders should be active in the venue that they are claiming to improve.

3. Few litters per year.
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. Raising a litter takes a LOT of time. A lot. Raising many litters would probably do me in.

Anyways, when it looks like people are bashing breeders it is probably because some of these items are missing. There are a lot of really good breeders out there. Not all of the good ones are on this site. Not all of the breeders on this site are what I would call reputable. But again, it all comes down to what every individual wants or expects. These three categories are just my criteria when people ask me if breeders are reputable.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Rosemary, I believe you are correct. They aren't titling or showing their dogs. I understand the worry in that. As far as skimpy goes, I have a very untrained eye. We are new to the dob-search and although I felt like I had done a decent amount of research on what to look for, something new is always mentioned that I am not sure of.


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Here are some threads from this forum you could look through:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...k-breeder.html

https://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com...er-ettiquette/



Quoting WorkingK9s, a member of this forum:

There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

1. Health testing.
It is no shock that this is a breed that is plauged by more health problems than most. A breeder who doesn't health test cannot be reputable in my eyes. My own criteria for health testing is that brefore being bred a dog should have at minimum cardio tests (this has gotten more complicated but hopefully we are moving forward with progress), vWD and hips. That is minimum. I prefer also CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork as well. For those breeders who say the pups have been checked... yes, the pups should have seen a vet at some point, but the majority of the health exams should belong to the parents.

2. Some kind of certification in a venue.
If you are looking at a working prospect, the parents of the litter should have working titles. If you are looking for a show prospect, the parents should be active in conformation shows. Just looking for a pet? Well, there are pet puppies in every litter so you are in luck! You can still get a pup from titled parents, usually for the same price as gimmick breeders. I.e. Family Dobes sells for 2500 with no ear crops and non-titled, or low titled parents. While there are always exceptions to the rules, in general breeders should be active in the venue that they are claiming to improve.

3. Few litters per year.
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. Raising a litter takes a LOT of time. A lot. Raising many litters would probably do me in.

Anyways, when it looks like people are bashing breeders it is probably because some of these items are missing. There are a lot of really good breeders out there. Not all of the good ones are on this site. Not all of the breeders on this site are what I would call reputable. But again, it all comes down to what every individual wants or expects. These three categories are just my criteria when people ask me if breeders are reputable.
This was such a helpful post, and I greatly thank you! I was offered to be sent health tests on one of the females once they decide who is going to be bred for the Spring litter. I made sure to ask if any dogs had z-factors in their lineage also, so far its No's across the board. Health test wise, I am still learning on what to look for from a breeder.

I used those links, along with what the AKC recommended to ask a breeder to populate my email to these breeders.

As for what we want, I feel like its just a simple thing, but asking too much. A healthy male doberman that has a great temperament and doesn't come with a spay/neuter contract. I'm not going to lie, some of the breeders I have dealt with so far are just rude. I understand why breeders require their dog be neutered. They want their lines to stay pure and regulated, which can't be done if offspring is out in the world humping a poodle. But this is both of our dog, and that was his only requirement.

So honestly, I know we will get bashed for that, but what are we to do when that is what we want? It seems we are left to resort to "less than reputable" breeders who will allow. And when other people go to these less than reputable breeders for a dog and have great experiences with health/temperament of their puppies, its hard to ignore that..

As an ignorant person to the breeder's realm, I am geniunely asking. Why give up or change what we want? We both have spent the last year arguing over whether to get a Doberman or Rottweiler, and both agreed finally on a Doberman. This wasn't just a random decision for us. Unanimously wanted a male black&tan doberman. So in our position with what we want stated above, what would you have us do? I don't believe wanting a specific breed, or wanting our dog to be intact deems us as immediately bad pet parents? I have spent many years house sitting pets based of people's opinion of how I treat and care for animals. My boyfriend was given multiple dogs to care for while the owners went through tough times (divorces, etc) because they knew how great he was at caring for a dog.

So where do we go from here if all reputable breeders will not sell to us because we don't want a spay/neuter contract? (Which is what I was told by a breeder, who seemed offended by the questions I asked in the first place).
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:04 PM
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My question to you is why are you so adverse to a S:N contract?


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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.McCrae View Post
Rosemary, I believe you are correct. They aren't titling or showing their dogs. I understand the worry in that. As far as skimpy goes, I have a very untrained eye. We are new to the dob-search and although I felt like I had done a decent amount of research on what to look for, something new is always mentioned that I am not sure of.
The cardio is one of the more important testing that has skimpy info. Most of the dogs are simply listed as "Cardio : Negative" or "DNA DCM: Clear". In Dobermans, cardio testing means that the dog has had a 24 hour Holter (EKG) and an ulltrasound of the heart (echo). There is also a blood test called pro-BNP that can be indicative of occult DCM. The two currently available DNA (genetic) marker tests for Dobermans are mainly for research purposes at the moment. Just because a dog tests clear (has no mutation) for both markers does NOT mean that they a) won't develop DCM or b) won't produce puppies that develop DCM.

Hips... most of their dogs have an Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) rating. In descending order, the ratings are Excellent (best), Good, Fair, Borderline, and then different levels of severity of HD. Most of their dogs are rated Fair to Good. The one dog with a European rating has a rating of HD-B, which equates pretty much with the OFA Fair.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SieYa View Post
My question to you is why are you so adverse to a S:N contract?
This is my SO's requirement. I never asked him why, as I don't mind one way or the other.

I wouldn't refuse our dog to be neutered if it was required by the breeder, but at the same time, I have never had to neuter our dogs. Only spayed our females(the few we had), never fixed our males, and never once had an issue regarding that.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Here are some threads from this forum you could look through:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...k-breeder.html

https://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com...er-ettiquette/



Quoting WorkingK9s, a member of this forum:

There have been a lot of breeder inquiries lately and some defensive people defending breeders whom they thought, or think, are reputable. So it begs the question, what qualifies a breeder as reputable.

Well, the answer is in the eye of the beholder mostly. Typically people on this forum would qualify a reputable breeder who does the following:

1. Health testing.
It is no shock that this is a breed that is plauged by more health problems than most. A breeder who doesn't health test cannot be reputable in my eyes. My own criteria for health testing is that brefore being bred a dog should have at minimum cardio tests (this has gotten more complicated but hopefully we are moving forward with progress), vWD and hips. That is minimum. I prefer also CERF, thyroid, elbows and liver bloodwork as well. For those breeders who say the pups have been checked... yes, the pups should have seen a vet at some point, but the majority of the health exams should belong to the parents.

2. Some kind of certification in a venue.
If you are looking at a working prospect, the parents of the litter should have working titles. If you are looking for a show prospect, the parents should be active in conformation shows. Just looking for a pet? Well, there are pet puppies in every litter so you are in luck! You can still get a pup from titled parents, usually for the same price as gimmick breeders. I.e. Family Dobes sells for 2500 with no ear crops and non-titled, or low titled parents. While there are always exceptions to the rules, in general breeders should be active in the venue that they are claiming to improve.

3. Few litters per year.
I would find it hard to believe that puppies get the appropriate amount of socialization if someone has more than 2-3 litters per year. Raising a litter takes a LOT of time. A lot. Raising many litters would probably do me in.

Anyways, when it looks like people are bashing breeders it is probably because some of these items are missing. There are a lot of really good breeders out there. Not all of the good ones are on this site. Not all of the breeders on this site are what I would call reputable. But again, it all comes down to what every individual wants or expects. These three categories are just my criteria when people ask me if breeders are reputable.
I would second all this. Especially the health testing of the parents. Puppies are still just puppies. Other than genetic testing there isn't a lot to see there yet, but knowing the health of the parents gives you a better idea of what lies ahead.
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
The cardio is one of the more important testing that has skimpy info. Most of the dogs are simply listed as "Cardio : Negative" or "DNA DCM: Clear". In Dobermans, cardio testing means that the dog has had a 24 hour Holter (EKG) and an ulltrasound of the heart (echo). There is also a blood test called pro-BNP that can be indicative of occult DCM. The two currently available DNA (genetic) marker tests for Dobermans are mainly for research purposes at the moment. Just because a dog tests clear (has no mutation) for both markers does NOT mean that they a) won't develop DCM or b) won't produce puppies that develop DCM.

Hips... most of their dogs have an Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) rating. In descending order, the ratings are Excellent (best), Good, Fair, Borderline, and then different levels of severity of HD. Most of their dogs are rated Fair to Good. The one dog with a European rating has a rating of HD-B, which equates pretty much with the OFA Fair.
In her emails, she did mention she does Holter and Echo tests on her dogs. She said the following via email. "They have a minimum of VwD, DCM DNA, Echo or holter, Hips/elbows, Thyroid, kidney, and liver before breeding. The puppies are seen by my vet as a general check up along with their shots before families come by to pick their puppies out. They are too young to do echos/hips/elbows for instance though."


Thank you so much for this informative reply!
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:33 PM
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 03:35 PM
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We used to have a thread with pictures of what the various certificates/health testing results should look like, so you couldn’t get fooled by fake ones. I was going to post it here with the other reference threads I posted.

But Photobucket made that thread useless by removing access to all the pictures unless you cough up some dough. So now the thread just displays this for every picture:



Maybe you folks who originally put that thread together could make a new one using another online photo-host like flickr or imgur.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 04:00 PM
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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.McCrae View Post
never fixed our males, and never once had an issue regarding that.
Older Doberman males are pretty prone to prostate problems, which generally means that then they *need* to be neutered. Having waited until that occurs, they are then facing surgery when not in optimum condition.

As a breeder of Dobermans, all of my Dobermans - males and females - get spayed and neutered as soon as they are out of consideration of breeding. All of them. I have waited too long and seen prostate problems in a male, and pyometra in a bitch. And then I felt pretty stupid for not preventing those problems when I could have.

Anyway, another great resource to use when learning about how to buy from a responsible breeder is
http://glengate.webs.com/buyingguide.htm
(although I must admit that it needs some updating - I just found out that CERF no longer exists, for instance, and I can't remember if I added info on the DCM2 DNA test. I need to add info on the degenerative myleopathy DNA test, DINGS DNA test and Doberman Diversity info, etc. Need more hours in the day!)


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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Raindance is fantastic. I'd pick Susan over NY Dobermans like a billion times over. I'd reconsider.
I'm not going to lie, I felt like she was a little rude to us even in her initial email. I think she misunderstood one thing I mentioned, and it turned her off of us. Im sure she runs a great breeding program, but it just didnt seem to fit us for what we wanted. She agreed with me on that, also. Personality clash, it seems.. I also reached out to BellaCane Dobermans, and Melissa was very nice to us, but made us aware her waitlist is 2 years long. We aren't in a rush, but also were hoping for something a little sooner. Reached out to Pamelot also, and although she was short in reply, she was kind. She wanted us to have our fence complete before she spoke with us regarding a puppy. We understand, but our fence WILL be done prior to the arrival of our puppy, and our property has a thick border of trees/set away from the roads, so it was a little bit of a bummer to not even be considered to chat. I have also reached out to Kelview two ways, and can see they have read my message, but haven't received a response. Not in a rush for reply, but kinda under the assumption that we may not be what they are looking for in puppy parents.

NY Dobermans' Meghan has beyond helpful with all of our questions, has a bit of a shorter waitlist, and has the temperament of dogs we are looking for. I know they might not be the highest on the recommended list here, but we are impressed. I have reached out to her asking if she would feel comfortable considering us for a puppy.

I certainly understand why these breeders are so strict in choosing a family for their litters. I truly do, and I appreciate it. As Susan said, the breeder picks you. But at the end of the day, we are looking to invest in our new family member, and know what we want. We will wait until we find the breeder we mutually match with, and go from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
Older Doberman males are pretty prone to prostate problems, which generally means that then they *need* to be neutered. Having waited until that occurs, they are then facing surgery when not in optimum condition.

As a breeder of Dobermans, all of my Dobermans - males and females - get spayed and neutered as soon as they are out of consideration of breeding. All of them. I have waited too long and seen prostate problems in a male, and pyometra in a bitch. And then I felt pretty stupid for not preventing those problems when I could have.

Anyway, another great resource to use when learning about how to buy from a responsible breeder is
Buying Guide - Glengate Reg'd Doberman Pinschers
(although I must admit that it needs some updating - I just found out that CERF no longer exists, for instance, and I can't remember if I added info on the DCM2 DNA test. I need to add info on the degenerative myleopathy DNA test, DINGS DNA test and Doberman Diversity info, etc. Need more hours in the day!)
Thank you for bringing up this point, as its not something I had thought of. I will certainly go home and read this to my SO to make him aware also, but at the end of the day, I think we still both like not being contractually bound to neuter. He seemed to be a little more aware of the benefits of neutering after talking with him, but he is worried about loss of drive after neutering. I am still on the fence, but agree with not wanting to be contractually bound. (If we had a female, we both would spay in a heartbeat.)
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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 11:16 AM
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One thing to keep in mind is that a BAD breeder really wants to sell you a dog. A good breeder is a lot pickier. And you're right, it can feel difficult, and you do want a good fit with your breeder...you may have to look outside your immediate area if you aren't "clicking" with someone, but you also may need to consider how you are communicating just a little bit...maybe you aren't clear in what you're asking? If you don't want to neuter your dog, is it appearing to a breeder that you intend to breed him? There ARE breeders who are willing to let males stay intact (and there's certainly debate on the advisability of that, which we don't need to get into here)...do you have a good track record of that? Keeping a male intact with no accidents? Perhaps you can provide that information when you send over your "resume" to the breeder. Offer to provide vet records, etc. Make it clear you have no intention of breeding (if, in fact, that's the case...I think you NEED to have that discussion as a couple!).

2 years may be too long of a wait for you...you can absolutely ask these good breeders if they can refer you to someone they know and trust - that's not uncommon. Don't settle for someone that isn't doing all the right things. If you say it's important to you to have a dog that has a great temperament and the best chance of a long, healthy life, then you owe it to yourself to find a breeder that is putting in the work to do that, and that means someone doing it the right way. That's NOT someone who doesn't bother proving their dogs are bred to standard (as in, showing and titling them in some venue and active in the breed in a larger way), isn't studying pedigrees carefully to make a good match, isn't thoroughly health testing and staying up to date on the latest in health research, isn't doing all the best enrichment for their puppies...

Believe me, I've had the dog that was less well bred, and I have two well bred dogs. The difference is quite clear.
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 02:26 PM
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CERF no longer exists? Where have I been. What is the alternative now?

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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 02:38 PM
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OFA Eye Certifcation exams

This must be the alternative.
DPCA still state CERF, but I am sure they will change it soon.
Thx for pointing this out.
I don't hear much about the dgenerative myleopathy DNA testing.
Does everyone do that now? It is for wobblers, right?

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