J Bar S (Missouri) - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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J Bar S (Missouri)

Hello there! Some of you may have read my other posts as I have been actively searching for the perfect breeder. I have reached out to many, and I do understand nationals has been underway so that may be why I have not heard back from many however it has been two weeks now since the actual submissions of questionaries to breeders began and I have to say that Suzan at J Bar S has impressed me. She was quick to reply to me by email and over the phone was so very knowledgeable and talked to me on a personal level that really made me feel like I would have amazing breeder support. She does have a litter planned for next year and she is within reasonable amount of hours from me that we can travel to her. We want to try to go and visit her and her Dobermans first and that way settle a deposit or such in person however you are all so knowledgable on here I wanted to reach out and see if anyone has personally met Suzan or any of her dogs? The litter she has planned will be with Intl CH Echorun's Notorious Outrageous Koko Channel. As this will be our first doberman we aren't that knowledgeable but we have been researching and closely following this forum for quite some time now. It seems Suzan feels very strongly about the standards and ethics of the breed and that means the most to us. We've always had a love for the breed, just didn't have the home or space to properly provide for such a dog. Now that we do we are all in! :-) We are mainly wanting a Doberman as a family companion and household "protector" (more so that a miniature dachshund just has zero intimidation factor hehe) however we tend to really go all in with our fur children and we already plan to do group and one-on-one obedience classes and I could see us perhaps wanting to fulfill the dogs full potential to obedience events. We are not interested in showing as marvelous as all of that is. We really are just excited to get a breed that has the willingness to learn and excited to see what adventures lie ahead. Anyways if any of you actually own a J Bar S doberman it would be fantastic to hear your story or experience and of course share photos!
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 11:18 AM
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If I were just starting to look for a Doberman puppy and found their website, I would turn away because of lack of information on health testing on their stock. Unless I missed it I didn't see anything other than Vwd and Dna testing.
Also, seems the conformation venue is only for International Championships which is nothing and only looks good in advertising.
There are things lacking here. I wouldn't give up searching.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 01:17 PM
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^ agreed. I see no mention of hips which is like, the basic of basic health testing. You can absolutely do better. I see no AKC titles either.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 03:39 PM
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Suzan is a member of United Doberman Club, works her dogs in sport,and is pretty adamant about health. I would be very surprised if her breeding stock lacks health clearances. Sometimes you have to dig a bit t find the page with the info you're looking for<G>

Koko is Vwd - CLEAR, Cerf - Normal, OFA Good - Elbows normal, Cardio ausculation and troprion test normal, DCM DNA PKD4 Neg, DM negative

I don't know who the proposed sire is.

Additionally she is an AKC Breeder of Merit which means you need to meet certain requirements as listed here. http://www.akc.org/dog-breeders/bree.../requirements/
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Last edited by windamyr; 10-16-2016 at 03:48 PM.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 04:12 PM
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That's good to know.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windamyr View Post
Suzan is a member of United Doberman Club, works her dogs in sport,and is pretty adamant about health. I would be very surprised if her breeding stock lacks health clearances. Sometimes you have to dig a bit t find the page with the info you're looking for<G>

Koko is Vwd - CLEAR, Cerf - Normal, OFA Good - Elbows normal, Cardio ausculation and troprion test normal, DCM DNA PKD4 Neg, DM negative

I don't know who the proposed sire is.

Additionally she is an AKC Breeder of Merit which means you need to meet certain requirements as listed here. Breeder of Merit Requirements - American Kennel Club
"The litter she has planned will be with Intl CH Echorun's Notorious Outrageous Koko Channel."

John
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 05:45 PM
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I searched her web site and found evidence of lots of health testing. this type of breeder I would inquire more. It actually looks like she is not just going for conformation but also is going after working ability. I would investigate further. they actually intrigue me. do your research well. wish you the best and let us know your decision.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 05:57 PM
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Isn't she a member here?

At any rate i'd be inclined to agree with windamyr, i've heard little about her but what I have heard is similar to what was mentioned.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 06:23 PM
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I think that's the bitch John, not sure what male she's planning to use
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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I've been doing a lot of research and really think she'd be a great fit for us, she really made me feel comfortable on the phone as she had so much information and you could tell she really cares for the breed and standards as well as the importance of health testing. We are setting up a time to drive down and visit her next month. I was just really hoping that someone here had maybe actually met her or had one of her dogs.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 06:37 PM
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I am glad to know she does extensive health testing.
The Intl. Ch. title impresses me not at all.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 06:50 PM
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I am glad to know she does extensive health testing.
The Intl. Ch. title" impresses me not at all.
Please re word as I'm sure this is not what you mean
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 07:09 PM
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International Champion



The internet is getting flatted with phony titles on dogs and one of them is the “International Champion” title.



Some people (breeders) attend shows offered by the INTERNATIONAL ALL BREED CANINE ASSOCIATION (IABCA) in the USA . This organization offers an IABCA title and also a title called IABCA International.

Unfortunately a dog does not have to go outside the USA to obtain this title. Reputable show people who are not interested in deception by a twist of words will list this as IABCA Int'l Ch which is the CORRECT way. BUT some people choose to just use Int'l or International Champion in their dog’s title, when in fact the dog never traveled outside of the USA to obtain this title. In some cases, the dog does not even travel out of the state it was born in and will be shown/judged with no competition!



The Doberman Pinscher is a recognized breed by the AKC (American Kennel Club) since 1921 and it is not necessary to use a rare breed organization to obtain a good competition title; Champion, Obedience, Rally, Agility, Tracking…

So if you come across a breeder that advertises Champion (CH) or International CH title dogs, make sure that you see proof before you purchase a puppy. Do not assume the dog is a TRUE International Champion or AKC Champion.

If you have any doubt get in touch with us we’ll try to help you.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 09:12 PM
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I think that's the bitch John, not sure what male she's planning to use
Duh... Stupid me, LOL

Yeah obviously the intended dam. Sooo... the bottom line is don't drink beer watching football and expect to read an on-line post accurately!

John
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:45 AM
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 07:50 AM
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She's a member here "dobs4ever"

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 09:03 AM
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I've known Suzan from a few online forums and she seems very knowledgeable and seems to be very much into health testing. With that said you should always double check the health testing with any breeder. She also seems to love her dogs and I think she'd be a great breeder for you if you think you're meshing well. Your breeder will be your first point of contact for any questions or concerns so your relationship is important.

I am underwhelmed by the International CH. as well, although it sounds big and important it's a fairly easy title to get, comparatively. But I also think a dog is either conformationally correct or it isn't and the money we throw at the AKC to get a CH. is on the far side of crazy. For someone like yourself who wants a pet I think it's a fine title.

Best of luck! Can't wait to see your pix.
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 10:18 AM
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Not sure why my response was removed so I will repost in the interest of a little truth here. I was referred here by another member who saw this post and I would like to address a couple issues. First being, one needs to be able to read to understand what is written. So health testing is listed on my web site and always has been. Cressrb might want to go back and reread then correct the above post. It is this kind of misinformation that misleads and can tarnish a reputation. Although I have been in Dobermans long enough and have enough accomplishments it just makes someone appear uneducated or ignorant. Seems an apology is in order but I doubt seriously anyone will be getting one.

All titles are bought some just cost more than others. IABCA is an organization that has been in business for over 30 years and they brought the International style conformation shows to America. While the requirements are far different than an AKC title as we all know if you have enough money all can be bought. If not then any dog who achieves CH title should take first place with every judge til finished. As we all know that is not the case. You find the judges who like your style of dog. I prefer the old style - heavier bone and solid temperament of which I have tested for along with other titles.

Before taking anyone's word on anything I would first ask them what titles or accomplishments they have to make such judgements? I have bred or titles dogs in conformation, obedience, SAR, tracking, Therapy, and guide dogs for the blind. I am president of MCWDC, am hosting the 2017 UDC Nationals here in Missouri, member of DPCA, title and train my own dogs. I do not spend my time on list much for this very reason at best advice is half baked by those who have never done much but have much to say.

One of my puppies is owned by a vet at MU and she was referred to me by the MU cardiology department due to my work in testing my dogs. The dog goes to work every day at MU and has become the MU mascot for the vet school. She also has lure coursing, agility and rally titles and has almost earned her MACH. So yes health testing is important.

I would recommend anyone who comes here to get advise from strangers double check the resource!!!

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
------
Some people (breeders) attend shows offered by the INTERNATIONAL ALL BREED CANINE ASSOCIATION (IABCA) in the USA . This organization offers an IABCA title and also a title called IABCA International.
--------
The International Canine Kennel Club and International Canine Events also offer a title called International Champion.


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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I would recommend anyone who comes here to get advise from strangers double check the resource!!!
Hi Suzan!! I am so looking forward to meeting you! We were pretty much set on you when I made this post I was just hoping to connect with any one else that has used you as a breeder so I can see and hear about their dogs and story. :-) Just hearing you speak about the breed on the phone spoke volumes about how much you care for the standards of health testing and the animals themselves.
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 12:35 PM
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@Dobs4ever

Well.... It may not mean much to you, but I am your new fan! And although I can't apologize to you since I didn't dis you or your site, your point is well taken.

I agree, it is unfair when folks pre-judge a breeder based on their website. If they even have one! The breeder of my last 3 boys, to the best of my knowledge, never mentions health testing on her very extensive website. Yet, ask.... And you will receive. LOL

Like you, she is heavily involved in the betterment of the breed. (President DPCA 2015)

I hope, if KSmith89 is a good fit, that they end up with one of your pups.

John
Portland OR

Edit to say: BTW.. Remember, well intentioned people misspeak sometimes. Happens to the best of us.
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:24 PM
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Guys I have lived my life believing that if I am going to say something negative I am darn well going to know it is true and provable. I do not care what anyone says about me - I stand on my reputation that is going on 30 years in this breed. I never bred to be the # 1 conformation breeder or the # 1 working breeder. I bred to improve the breed, support the breed, fight for the breed and stand strong on the American standard that guides breeders. I have always been happy to answer any questions and my families can tell you that through the years I have stood by them in good times (those are the easy ones) and the bad times. I don't run from my responsibilities - I respect this breed too much. This breed is loyal, honest, trustworthy, dependable, strong and I try to live up to their standard. This breed deserves no less.

4X4bike ped - thank you and yes it does mean a lot to me. I appreciate folks who are open to a little truth and are willing to at least give someone a chance to give their side. Although I don't really feel I have much of a side in this as all the health testing is posted on the web site for anyone who can read. Anyone who visits MU just needs to ask about Raylene and most know me by name as her breeder. So what really makes a quality breeder - X # of champions??? X # of health test, X # of SAR dogs WHAT - how about truthful, honest and knowledgable ( of temperament, conformation, health issues, legislative issues)? I certainly hope it is not rumors from the gossip mill. I believe on these list we should be more responsible as we can mislead good folks who come seeking honest help and answers. We can't just throw out anything and see what sticks.

Kayla I will say this - not everyone likes me - and I am good with that. I don't need to be liked by everyone to know what is right. As you can see I also don't take a lot of guff. If you decide to move forward then I can't wait to show off my guys. You will find few breeders who can demonstrate as much with their dogs. They make me look real good. I had to work very hard to live up to their beauty, brains and brawn!! I believe and try to live by this- Truth only hurts for a little while - a lie hurts forever. Everyday I thank God for the Doberman - they would never put out untruths without checking their facts first, I can do no less.
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dobs4ever View Post
Not sure why my response was removed so I will repost in the interest of a little truth here.
Hi Dobs4ever! None of us mods deleted anything--and as far as I know, weíre the only folks who can

So maybe you forgot to push enter? Or else the disobedient post took off into the ether and somehow never figured out how to get back here. LOL

Computers

Anyway, Iím glad you re-posted so your point got across.
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 07:51 AM
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Thank you Melrod - good to see you and Greenkouki again. It has been a while and I did struggle to figure out the new site changes so the mistake was probably mine. If it is OK I will post some info in a new thread a little later on the UDC Nationals and MCWDC's workshop seminar for next year. We have 4 planned with Greg Doud.

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J Bar S Dobermans - Where Dobermans RULE!!!
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs4ever View Post
Guys I have lived my life believing that if I am going to say something negative I am darn well going to know it is true and provable. I do not care what anyone says about me - I stand on my reputation that is going on 30 years in this breed. I never bred to be the # 1 conformation breeder or the # 1 working breeder. I bred to improve the breed, support the breed, fight for the breed and stand strong on the American standard that guides breeders. I have always been happy to answer any questions and my families can tell you that through the years I have stood by them in good times (those are the easy ones) and the bad times. I don't run from my responsibilities - I respect this breed too much. This breed is loyal, honest, trustworthy, dependable, strong and I try to live up to their standard. This breed deserves no less.

4X4bike ped - thank you and yes it does mean a lot to me. I appreciate folks who are open to a little truth and are willing to at least give someone a chance to give their side. Although I don't really feel I have much of a side in this as all the health testing is posted on the web site for anyone who can read. Anyone who visits MU just needs to ask about Raylene and most know me by name as her breeder. So what really makes a quality breeder - X # of champions??? X # of health test, X # of SAR dogs WHAT - how about truthful, honest and knowledgable ( of temperament, conformation, health issues, legislative issues)? I certainly hope it is not rumors from the gossip mill. I believe on these list we should be more responsible as we can mislead good folks who come seeking honest help and answers. We can't just throw out anything and see what sticks.

Kayla I will say this - not everyone likes me - and I am good with that. I don't need to be liked by everyone to know what is right. As you can see I also don't take a lot of guff. If you decide to move forward then I can't wait to show off my guys. You will find few breeders who can demonstrate as much with their dogs. They make me look real good. I had to work very hard to live up to their beauty, brains and brawn!! I believe and try to live by this- Truth only hurts for a little while - a lie hurts forever. Everyday I thank God for the Doberman - they would never put out untruths without checking their facts first, I can do no less.
Very well put Suzan on both of your posts. We don't always agree but I think that's because we are very much alike. I like that you stood up for yourself and your beliefs. I'm sure No one meant to diss you, it was probably more of an accident but one that needs to avoided in the future. I too, like you, do not believe in breeding for the next top 20 dog or IPO 3 dog, I don't think that makes for success in a pet home. I believe in breeding for the entire Doberman and what it was meant to do along with health and longevity. Many good breedings to you and don't be a stranger! We love puppy pix!
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