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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Question about DCM and breeding

I hope this is the correct forum - wasn't sure if it should be in health.

Here's the background: I am on my 6th & 7th doberman - my husband and I always have two. Until now we managed to dodge the DCM bullet (hadn't even HEARD of it when I got my first dobe in 1982). But my Emma has been diagnosed.

Here's the question: One of Emma's grandsire's is Brunswig's Cryptonite...and I read in an old forum that he may have died of DCM. Thing is, maybe Emma owes her DCM to him, maybe not, but as also remarked in an old forum, this dog appears in a LOT of backgrounds.

I am overwhelmed now with the uncertainty of it all. How do I find out what dogs had DCM - if it hadn't been for this forum I wouldn't ever have been aware of this possibility in Emma's background? How do I know how far removed that background might be? I'm not blaming people for using a particular dog if it is something special but I am gun-shy now, as I look into the possibility of a new puppy.

Any words of wisdom on how to proceed with trust and confidence?
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 12:12 PM
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It's still a gamble no matter what but if you seek out breeders with pedigrees with good longevity, who have extensive info on CODs (cardio) and other health issues, and have no problem with transparency about their breeding program that's going to stack the odds in your favor. dobequest.org is a great resource for researching these things. Very sorry about your girl Emma. DT has some great threads about DCM which I imagine you've already been reading.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 12:15 PM
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Unfortunately DCM is a silent killer and currently there are no solid tests to genetically avoid the disease.

About 50% of the breed will succumb to DCM.

While there is no cure for DCM, you can be proactive and have annual tests done to detect the disease early, and start medication right away to ensure your dog has a long and pain free life.

Only buy puppies from reputable breeders. Ask for health certificates, history of their breeding lines, and what they are currently doing with their dogs. NO Doberman is DCM Free. If a breeder says they are DCM Free, run away.

Owning a Doberman, you must accept DCM. It is so prevalent in this breed, but dont let it get you down. Just be pro active, and enjoy the years with your Doberman

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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 01:16 PM
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So sorry for Emma being diagnosed with DCM. We also have two boys that have DCM. One was diagnosed this past July and our other the begining of this past December.

Like DogsR4Life said.
Owners of Dobes must be very proactive with early Holters, Echo's, and Blood tests. These should start a 2yrs old! If caught early in the Occult phase with no other symptoms. Dogs can hopefully live longer and with a good quality of life.
I would also not be without Pet Insurance owning this breed.
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 01:23 PM
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I'm so sorry about the diagnosis and I concur with what the others are saying.

I gather from your other post that you are in Rhode Island. We are lucky that we have a fantastic cardio vet in this area, Dr. Morris at Mass Vet Cardiology. I highly recommend her and if you haven't gone to her already you should consider it. She has a special interest in DCM in this breed.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2016, 06:11 PM
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Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to get away from certain dogs in a pedigree and even then is not a guarantee you'll have a long lived dog and reporting on cods regarding dcm is a matter of the honor system.

Really the only thing anyone can do right now is try to find a breeder who is using long lived lines and support those with your money...even though that is not a guarantee, it encourages out of the box breeding practices.
There are some really exciting litters on the ground and in the works because of this btw!

JMO but collected dogs pre-pimodendan use that were unable to be medicated to double digits are more valuable IMO.

No quick fix. There are some helpful links in my signature below that can start one on a path of researching lines.

-^-^-^----_^-^-^---^-^-^-^-/\-^->
Help the doberman by doing your homework BEFORE buying!


Search a Dam or Sires health certifications

Reading Pedigrees: A Lost Art?

The Pox of Popular Sires

DOBEQUEST <-incomplete but worthwhile

DPCA Longevity List of stored Sires
Puppies on Ice: Collected sires for future use
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-05-2016, 03:39 PM
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It has been confirmed that CH Brunswig's Cryptonite died of sudden death while breeding a bitch. For morbid curiosity, I've always wondered WHO that particular bitch was. As a breeder, that's pretty much your worst nightmare when the stud dog drops dead while breeding YOUR bitch.

As others have said, a lot of pedigree research is helpful. But one of the things I've found to be much more helpful is picking up the phone and asking other breeders about the dogs in a pedigree. Sometimes people are much more willing to be direct when it's not in writing. The same with show people. Most of you wouldn't even believe the things we know about a line that we've either directly seen at a show or heard about from someone else. Some false, but so much of it is very true. Which is why I, and many, many others literally cringe when certain breeders are recommended here so frequently. Find a show person...you'll get some info and a real nice history lesson on the breed too.

The crappiest part about DCM is that you don't ever know who it's going to strike. Just using Kafka as an example since the OP brought it up...he's less known for the longevity he produced. There are a number of his progeny that are longevity certified (living 10+ years). The same goes for Dagger, and Eddie, and Monty, Agador, and so on... How does that happen? Genetics in respect to DCM is so very tricky.

Like someone else mentioned...support breeders with longevity. Support breeders who health test YEARLY. Support breeders who are desperately trying to breed away from cardio. But also know, that even the best of breeders who do all of the above are still at the mercy of mother nature.

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-05-2016, 09:26 PM
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CH Brunswig's Cryptonite was in my second Dobe's pedigree. We lost him to DCM at age 7 in1995.

What I would do to have the knowledge about DCM then that I have now.

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 12:34 AM
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And I had a Cryptonite son whom I had sold but he lived til 14 years old and a Cryptonite Grandson who lived till 11 and a half. The fourteen year old died of natural causes and the 11 and a half year old died of hemangiosarcoma. Instead of picking on Cryptonite we should look at some of these top breeders who are breeding pedigrees that are literally plagued with cardio. It's like they are breeding to produce dogs to come down with cardio. It's really sickening.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalecho View Post
And I had a Cryptonite son whom I had sold but he lived til 14 years old and a Cryptonite Grandson who lived till 11 and a half. The fourteen year old died of natural causes and the 11 and a half year old died of hemangiosarcoma. Instead of picking on Cryptonite we should look at some of these top breeders who are breeding pedigrees that are literally plagued with cardio. It's like they are breeding to produce dogs to come down with cardio. It's really sickening.
The health of Kafka offspring was a mixed bag as far as health, and so have the offspring of several other dogs that died of cardio way too young.

I too look at some of the breeding that is done today and just shake my head at the breeders who willingly double and triple up on pedigrees that have way too much cardio in it.... but by God they win.... and then people breed to them. It makes me sick. I get that we can't spay and neuter every dog whose parents died too young of cardio, but looking specifically for really healthy long-lived lines is the only smart way to move on .... and too many people don't do that. JMHO

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 04:17 PM
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You hit it on the head with this phrase Mary Jo 'but by God they win"
And this isn't limited to Dobermans or Doberman health issues, it is a problem across breeds, and even species. When the desire for 'winning' takes precedence over good husbandry, the breed(s) suffer
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 09:54 PM
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Well, I just checked and Brunswig's Cryptonite was also in our last Dobe's pedigree and he lived to be 12. You just never know.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spendthrift1 View Post
One of Emma's grandsire's is Brunswig's Cryptonite...and I read in an old forum that he may have died of DCM. Thing is, maybe Emma owes her DCM to him, maybe not, but as also remarked in an old forum, this dog appears in a LOT of backgrounds.
You're right about that. He appears in a LOT of pedigrees.

However, I don't think it's ever fair to point a finger at one dog and say that one dog is the cause. That one dog is a product of his ancestors and it's not like the problem originated with that one dog. It's been around for a long time. He's not the first. DCM was in his pedigree already, just like it is in every one else's.

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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-10-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobiewankanobi View Post
...Most of you wouldn't even believe the things we know about a line that we've either directly seen at a show or heard about from someone else. Some false, but so much of it is very true. Which is why I, and many, many others literally cringe when certain breeders are recommended here so frequently. Find a show person...you'll get some info and a real nice history lesson on the breed too...
Amen.

And not just about the dogs, but also about the character and practices of the breeders.

There are breeders absolutely hero-worshipped on here who are just ruthless, and negligent, and sometimes ignorant, and basically subject to all the foibles that humans can have, yet they are blindly recommended, over and over.

OTOH, there are some really great humans, trying to breed our Doberman right, who don't get the credit for that they so deserve.




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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Didn't mean that the way it came out

I apologize, as I didn't mean to pick on one dog for the breed's troubles. What I was trying to do was use that one as an example - as in, 'here's a dog that might have this in its background, and it was used liberally for breeding, and if it was, how many others were and are, and how do I know what the hell to do?'

I don't move in doberman circles, so when people make veiled comments that apparently you all understand - about breeders that are recommended here, that you don't feel are being responsible - it's frustrating. Dobermans are a wonderful breed - but it shouldn't take a secret handshake to find a good dog!

Again, I didn't mean to pick on one dog, or one line, or say there's an easy identifier - if genetics were that easy, DCM would be gone and there'd be no wobbler's and and and...I get that there are no guarantees either way.

I apologize for venting.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 12:43 PM
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No need to apologize for anything. Many of us here have dealt/ are dealing with DCM in our dogs and can completely understand what it is like to live with a dog that has it.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 12:46 PM
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You don't need to apologize you asked a legitimate question and it's a good topic for discussion.
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 02:08 PM
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I don't know who these breeders are either Spendthrift<G> So do a ton of research on pedigrees. There isn't always a cause of death listed, but if the dog died young I file that away. And no matter how nice a dog he/she may have been, personally I would try to avoid pedigrees where that dog shows up multiple times.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 03:51 PM
Sirai Dobermans
 
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I don't think it's all about "secret handshakes." At all. It's more about not trashing someone's bloodline and not trashing their name publicly without them being here to explain themselves.

Here's the deal. You should be interviewing breeders. And I do mean interview quite like one does for a job. There should be lengthy discussions or emails if your breeder prefers that (I know it's hard for long phone discussions for me when I have puppies). Those questions should include health testing of both the sire AND dam. And I don't mean, "are they health tested? Ok. Good." I mean:
-do they have a recent thyroid test and what is the result
-do they have a recent echocardiogram and what is the result
-do they have a recent holter and what is the result
-do they have a recent kidney/liver panel and what is the result
-do they have a recent CERF and what is the result
-what is the vwd status
-what is the status of the hips and elbows
* By recent, I mean within one year of the date of the breeding *
And will the breeder send you copies of the results or provide them to you? I happily send test results to potential puppy buyers. I list them on my website and provide a link to OFA where they can view them as well. Additionally, each puppy leaves for their new home with a puppy packet that includes the health testing of the sire and dam.

I can't tell you how many phone calls I get where people don't even mention health testing. Not once. Not a single time. I can't tell you how many people never ever question a pedigree. Do you know how frustrating that is for a breeder? To put the time, effort and expense to have that testing done for both myself and puppy buyers and then no potential buyers even ask about it? I have had ONE...ONE...person ask me what my goals for the breeding were and what I was trying to accomplish in pairing those dogs together. OR--this is my favorite--the person who knew upfront that my breeding was a carrier to carrier and after I had the puppies DNA tested for vwd status and had only clears and carriers they told me they found another breeder they liked better who never would do carrier to carrier regardless of the results. The breeder they purchased from bred two dogs who were direct descendants for several generations with public COD listed as cardio. So, also know what those test results MEAN. This buyer couldn't stand the thought of a vwd carrier and purchased a puppy incredibly likely to die of cardio. How smart was that?

In short, most of the emails and phone calls I get are very much like this:
"Do you have puppies? When will they be available? What is the price? Thanks."

That's it. The minute one person is deemed reputable by whomever is determined as the authoritative source of info...people stop asking questions. Perhaps that allows people to do what they want with few consequences?

I strongly encourage people to schedule a phone call with a breeder. Have a list of questions ready. Or if time is an issue for the breeder, ask those questions via email so they have some time in between socializing puppies and cleaning up after them in addition to showing to answer those questions for you. I also strongly encourage people to meet me at the shows. I want to know you. I want to teach you about our breed. I want to tell you why I made the choices I did in this breeding. And guess what...if I don't have an answer to a question for you...my mentor will and she's probably at that same show. Or one of my many other breeder mentors is. We're a community joined entirely by the breed even if we don't always agree with each and every decision another breeder might make.

If all you want is a companion and have no interest in showing...that's great too. A lot of breeders forget that we're able to breed these litters for show and performance prospects because fabulous pet homes will love the others in the litter. But you've got to do YOUR research. What someone deems as fine may not be the same for you.

RIP Kai 3/19/2001 - 11/8/2011
Koa RN, CAX, CGC
Siri-GCH Sunny N Foxfire's Starstruck CAX CGC
Chloe-CA, CGC
Hottie-CH Foxfire's I'm Smokin' Hot CA
Aero-GCH Sirai's Brace For Impact CA DJ CGC WAC
Bluebie-Sirai's Clear Skies Ahead CA WAC
Cessna-CH Sirai's Cleared For Takeoff CA WAC
Luxe-BPIS Sirai's Hollywood Glamour CA WAC
Mavi-CH Sirai's Hollywood Hot Shot WAC

Last edited by Dobiewankanobi; 01-12-2016 at 03:59 PM.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 04:17 PM
Sirai Dobermans
 
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You can do a lot of pedigree research (and see COD, etc on some) at DobeQuest . Remember, as a database, that DQ is only as good as the info entered. And some people just don't enter any info. So, it's a starting place.

RIP Kai 3/19/2001 - 11/8/2011
Koa RN, CAX, CGC
Siri-GCH Sunny N Foxfire's Starstruck CAX CGC
Chloe-CA, CGC
Hottie-CH Foxfire's I'm Smokin' Hot CA
Aero-GCH Sirai's Brace For Impact CA DJ CGC WAC
Bluebie-Sirai's Clear Skies Ahead CA WAC
Cessna-CH Sirai's Cleared For Takeoff CA WAC
Luxe-BPIS Sirai's Hollywood Glamour CA WAC
Mavi-CH Sirai's Hollywood Hot Shot WAC
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spendthrift1 View Post
I apologize, as I didn't mean to pick on one dog for the breed's troubles. What I was trying to do was use that one as an example - as in, 'here's a dog that might have this in its background, and it was used liberally for breeding, and if it was, how many others were and are, and how do I know what the hell to do?'

I don't move in doberman circles, so when people make veiled comments that apparently you all understand - about breeders that are recommended here, that you don't feel are being responsible - it's frustrating. Dobermans are a wonderful breed - but it shouldn't take a secret handshake to find a good dog!

Again, I didn't mean to pick on one dog, or one line, or say there's an easy identifier - if genetics were that easy, DCM would be gone and there'd be no wobbler's and and and...I get that there are no guarantees either way.

I apologize for venting.
No no no- please don't apologize! When buyers start demanding some attention to longevity and learning to buy better, and not just go for what's easy(and often wrong, e.g. vwd clear only or wanting pdk4 negative only dogs(!) but have a real understanding - that helps the breed.

Also in this day and age to allow a dog to dominate a breed so heavily is just selfish ego IMO. However as you can see, it's not always black and white.

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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobiewankanobi View Post
I don't think it's all about "secret handshakes." At all. It's more about not trashing someone's bloodline and not trashing their name publicly without them being here to explain themselves.

Here's the deal. You should be interviewing breeders. And I do mean interview quite like one does for a job. There should be lengthy discussions or emails if your breeder prefers that (I know it's hard for long phone discussions for me when I have puppies). Those questions should include health testing of both the sire AND dam. And I don't mean, "are they health tested? Ok. Good." I mean:
-do they have a recent thyroid test and what is the result
-do they have a recent echocardiogram and what is the result
-do they have a recent holter and what is the result
-do they have a recent kidney/liver panel and what is the result
-do they have a recent CERF and what is the result
-what is the vwd status
-what is the status of the hips and elbows
* By recent, I mean within one year of the date of the breeding *
And will the breeder send you copies of the results or provide them to you? I happily send test results to potential puppy buyers. I list them on my website and provide a link to OFA where they can view them as well. Additionally, each puppy leaves for their new home with a puppy packet that includes the health testing of the sire and dam.

I can't tell you how many phone calls I get where people don't even mention health testing. Not once. Not a single time. I can't tell you how many people never ever question a pedigree. Do you know how frustrating that is for a breeder? To put the time, effort and expense to have that testing done for both myself and puppy buyers and then no potential buyers even ask about it? I have had ONE...ONE...person ask me what my goals for the breeding were and what I was trying to accomplish in pairing those dogs together. OR--this is my favorite--the person who knew upfront that my breeding was a carrier to carrier and after I had the puppies DNA tested for vwd status and had only clears and carriers they told me they found another breeder they liked better who never would do carrier to carrier regardless of the results. The breeder they purchased from bred two dogs who were direct descendants for several generations with public COD listed as cardio. So, also know what those test results MEAN. This buyer couldn't stand the thought of a vwd carrier and purchased a puppy incredibly likely to die of cardio. How smart was that?

In short, most of the emails and phone calls I get are very much like this:
"Do you have puppies? When will they be available? What is the price? Thanks."

That's it. The minute one person is deemed reputable by whomever is determined as the authoritative source of info...people stop asking questions. Perhaps that allows people to do what they want with few consequences?

I strongly encourage people to schedule a phone call with a breeder. Have a list of questions ready. Or if time is an issue for the breeder, ask those questions via email so they have some time in between socializing puppies and cleaning up after them in addition to showing to answer those questions for you. I also strongly encourage people to meet me at the shows. I want to know you. I want to teach you about our breed. I want to tell you why I made the choices I did in this breeding. And guess what...if I don't have an answer to a question for you...my mentor will and she's probably at that same show. Or one of my many other breeder mentors is. We're a community joined entirely by the breed even if we don't always agree with each and every decision another breeder might make.

If all you want is a companion and have no interest in showing...that's great too. A lot of breeders forget that we're able to breed these litters for show and performance prospects because fabulous pet homes will love the others in the litter. But you've got to do YOUR research. What someone deems as fine may not be the same for you.
Everything you said ^^^
To bold makes my head spin but see it so many times here and on the FB forums! STILL!!!
Thank you for speaking out.

I know those of us who know better get weary of repeating like broken records but that crap needs to be shouted down at every opportunity, the vwd "death sentence" BS. It's everywhere - the clueless parroting and it's damaging when breeders start only going to the one or two current clear black dogs

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Help the doberman by doing your homework BEFORE buying!


Search a Dam or Sires health certifications

Reading Pedigrees: A Lost Art?

The Pox of Popular Sires

DOBEQUEST <-incomplete but worthwhile

DPCA Longevity List of stored Sires
Puppies on Ice: Collected sires for future use
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobiewankanobi View Post
I don't think it's all about "secret handshakes." At all. It's more about not trashing someone's bloodline and not trashing their name publicly without them being here to explain themselves.

Here's the deal. You should be interviewing breeders. And I do mean interview quite like one does for a job. There should be lengthy discussions or emails if your breeder prefers that (I know it's hard for long phone discussions for me when I have puppies). Those questions should include health testing of both the sire AND dam. And I don't mean, "are they health tested? Ok. Good." I mean:
-do they have a recent thyroid test and what is the result
-do they have a recent echocardiogram and what is the result
-do they have a recent holter and what is the result
-do they have a recent kidney/liver panel and what is the result
-do they have a recent CERF and what is the result
-what is the vwd status
-what is the status of the hips and elbows
* By recent, I mean within one year of the date of the breeding *
And will the breeder send you copies of the results or provide them to you? I happily send test results to potential puppy buyers. I list them on my website and provide a link to OFA where they can view them as well. Additionally, each puppy leaves for their new home with a puppy packet that includes the health testing of the sire and dam.

I can't tell you how many phone calls I get where people don't even mention health testing. Not once. Not a single time. I can't tell you how many people never ever question a pedigree. Do you know how frustrating that is for a breeder? To put the time, effort and expense to have that testing done for both myself and puppy buyers and then no potential buyers even ask about it? I have had ONE...ONE...person ask me what my goals for the breeding were and what I was trying to accomplish in pairing those dogs together. OR--this is my favorite--the person who knew upfront that my breeding was a carrier to carrier and after I had the puppies DNA tested for vwd status and had only clears and carriers they told me they found another breeder they liked better who never would do carrier to carrier regardless of the results. The breeder they purchased from bred two dogs who were direct descendants for several generations with public COD listed as cardio. So, also know what those test results MEAN. This buyer couldn't stand the thought of a vwd carrier and purchased a puppy incredibly likely to die of cardio. How smart was that?

In short, most of the emails and phone calls I get are very much like this:
"Do you have puppies? When will they be available? What is the price? Thanks."

That's it. The minute one person is deemed reputable by whomever is determined as the authoritative source of info...people stop asking questions. Perhaps that allows people to do what they want with few consequences?

I strongly encourage people to schedule a phone call with a breeder. Have a list of questions ready. Or if time is an issue for the breeder, ask those questions via email so they have some time in between socializing puppies and cleaning up after them in addition to showing to answer those questions for you. I also strongly encourage people to meet me at the shows. I want to know you. I want to teach you about our breed. I want to tell you why I made the choices I did in this breeding. And guess what...if I don't have an answer to a question for you...my mentor will and she's probably at that same show. Or one of my many other breeder mentors is. We're a community joined entirely by the breed even if we don't always agree with each and every decision another breeder might make.

If all you want is a companion and have no interest in showing...that's great too. A lot of breeders forget that we're able to breed these litters for show and performance prospects because fabulous pet homes will love the others in the litter. But you've got to do YOUR research. What someone deems as fine may not be the same for you.
First of all I want to apologize to the forum. I HATE quoting entire posts, especially fairly lengthy ones. But the above post should be read by any potential puppy buyer for ANY breed (although the common problems vary by breed so do your research).

My belief is that most people want an Easy Button when it comes to buying a puppy. The reality is that breeding and genetics are unfathomably complicated for all but the simplest life forms. And nobody, not a breeder, not a breed "expert", not a Best In Show judge, an IPO judge, or any other person except the owner should be making the decision on what factors are most important to them. When it comes to breeding EVERYTHING is a compromise. There are no perfect dogs so you have to balance health, temperament, longevity, conformation, working ability, and many other things. The only person that can do this is the puppy buyer themselves. But in order to ask the right questions, do the proper research, and come up with your own priorities you need to understand the ins and outs of the breed. And that takes time and work that everybody considering buying a puppy should commit to doing.

Right now I'm trying to decide if the relatively short lifespan and relatively high risk of health issues (DCM, CVI, and cancer) and the frequent testing involved to allow your family member to live as long as possible if they do develop DCM makes me want to pass on Dobermans. It's a tough choice for me because the breed, in all other aspects, is a perfect fit for me.

Like I said, there is no Easy Button. You do your research, gather your data, and make the best decision possible hoping the heartbreak you'll have to deal with will be put off as long as possible and you'll get to enjoy your family member in every way you want to up until the end.

Last edited by engstrom; 01-13-2016 at 06:48 PM.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-14-2016, 10:27 AM
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All breeds and mixes for that matter come with the potential for heartbreak. Some are obvious like the sudden death issues in Dobes, Boxers, and several other larger breeds. Some are more chronic, yet still life altering(and sometimes life ending), such as epilepsy, orthopedic issues, cancer, allergies(never poopoo allergies, they can be a nightmare for the dog and it's family!)

We all know the risks going in, and should look for breeders who are doing their dead level best to minimize the risks, celebrate a breeder who is up front and honest about where the devils lie in their pedigree. If you run into a breeder(ANY breed!) who says, 'oh I don't have those problems in my pedigree' run, don't walk, RUN as fast as you can. This is either a woefully misinformed individual, or a liar. Neither of which is someone you want to hand your hard earned money to.

I have one breed where epilepsy is a breedwide issue, and we do have some other things that crop up, currently gastric carcinoma seems to be showing up more and more. It is a challenge to choose where to breed a bitch to try to minimize any problem,while maintaining the qualities you desire(temperament, structure, your preferred 'style and health) it takes a lot of study on the breeder's part, soul searching, deciding what/where you're willing to compromise,and sometimes despite your very best effort, Mother Nature laughs in your face, and you hold the hand of a broken hearted owner, while both of you cry buckets of tears.

Owning dogs is a crapshoot, regardless of breed. Some will beat all odds and live well into a ripe old age? And some will succumb to something far earlier than we were prepared to lose them. But there is one immutable fact, your dog will never live as long as you hope he will. SO celebrate life with your dog, he doesn't worry about the future, he lives life to the fullest every single day he's here. Celebrate that, learn from it, enjoy it, and when they inevitably leave too early, let the memories and lessons you learned with that beloved dog comfort you, take them with you to your next dog, they are lessons in life and love to be valued.

For me? I try hard not to let the fear of something rule my decision process. The facts are both of my breeds have issues inherent within the breed. I will still enjoy both breeds to the fullest, because of all the qualities each bring to the table, and how each breed and individual dog, enriches my life for whatever time they are allotted on this earth. I do the best I can when breeding, or purchasing to minimize as many risk factors as I can, but I also know I can never do away with risk altogether. It's there, in my chosen breeds, in mongrels, in life itself! So I do all I can from as many aspects as I can control to find the best dogs for me. And when they leave, I cry rivers of tears, and tell funny stories, and remember all the things we did as a team, smile, visit them in the secret place in my heart that they will live in forever,and at the end of it all? It's worth every bit of the heartache
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-14-2016, 11:11 AM
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This is a GREAT thread. Thanks to all who are continuing the conversation as it's such an important topic. The effort to educate going on here is a blessing to many.

THE BOONDOGGLE
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