Dishonest and Possibly Fraudulent Breeder - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Dishonest and Possibly Fraudulent Breeder

I put a deposit down on a Doberman Puppy that was SUPPOSE to have been born in early September. I placed the deposit on the expected litter sometime in August and the puppy was suppose to come home with me in November.

I was told the litter was born as scheduled in September. I waited a week or two, but I noticed on their facebook and twitter page that there were no posts or tweets about a new litter or how excited they were for this litter since it was the moms supposed first litter. So I e-mail the breeder and the breeder tells me that the mom is stressed and did not want to take pictures and that there was no time to update their media page (yet she can tweet on her personal twitter page). I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Fast forward to today it has been 5 weeks I sent an email a few days ago demanding for a picture as something did not feel right.

I received a picture today and and three emails. The emails seemed weird. She was saying if I was not happy with this dog I can wait to the next litter and went on a rant about how they want to make sure I am happy and what not. I did not really think about it until I showed some friends of the dog and they were aware of my past concerns so they recommend I do a reverse image search. I do a reverse image search and wham bam the picture the breeder sent me is of a Doberman puppy FEMALE (not even male) from a breeder down in Texas that has already been sent off.

At this points red flags are raised. I sent the breeder an email demanding my money back. Not even an explanation. At this point even if she has/had a litter I would not want to work with someone who is this dishonest.

Will let fellow dobermantalk forum members know what happens next. Just wanted to get this off my chest.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 10:53 PM
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not going to say until I receive my money back. I'm hoping it does not escalate until anything serious. I hope the breeder just owns up to it.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWS View Post
I'm not going to say until I receive my money back. I'm hoping it does not escalate until anything serious. I hope the breeder just owns up to it.
I don't really know of any reputable breeders who require puppy deposits, before a litter is even born.

Even if there are some "big name" breeders who did that--which I suppose is possible--it's not a practice I'd consider ethical or even very practical.

We're dealing with Mother Nature here, and why take someone's money on something specific you cannot promise?

And if in fact they stole a pic to send to you, well, that's ridiculous.

Sorry, but I'd go ahead and name them. The pressure from social media can actually be a fairly effective tool against some bad do-ers.




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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I don't really know of any reputable breeders who require puppy deposits, before a litter is even born.

Even if there are some "big name" breeders who did that--which I suppose is possible--it's not a practice I'd consider ethical or even very practical.

We're dealing with Mother Nature here, and why take someone's money on something specific you cannot promise?

And if in fact they stole a pic to send to you, well, that's ridiculous.

Sorry, but I'd go ahead and name them. The pressure from social media can actually be a fairly effective tool against some bad do-ers.
Actually, on my last pup, Michelle asked for a $750 deposit. Totally refundable, so more of a "good faith" gesture.

Just saying...

Yeah... Other than that, agreeing with RFR. Name them and let it work itself out. Sounds odd...
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I don't really know of any reputable breeders who require puppy deposits, before a litter is even born.

Even if there are some "big name" breeders who did that--which I suppose is possible--it's not a practice I'd consider ethical or even very practical.

We're dealing with Mother Nature here, and why take someone's money on something specific you cannot promise?

And if in fact they stole a pic to send to you, well, that's ridiculous.

Sorry, but I'd go ahead and name them. The pressure from social media can actually be a fairly effective tool against some bad do-ers.
All the DPCA breeders I talked to in my state require a deposit...
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:55 PM
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Was this breeder from the DPCA website? Or from recommendations from Dobertalk forum?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWS View Post
All the DPCA breeders I talked to in my state require a deposit...
Most breeders require a deposit, the difference is in the timing. A deposit before the pup is born is very strange, as you can't guarantee the number of pups, or if there'll be stillborns etc. Most breeders will wait until they have a litter on the ground, look at what they have, then contact the people on their waiting list about deposits
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numby View Post
Most breeders require a deposit, the difference is in the timing. A deposit before the pup is born is very strange, as you can't guarantee the number of pups, or if there'll be stillborns etc. Most breeders will wait until they have a litter on the ground, look at what they have, then contact the people on their waiting list about deposits
Completely agree with this. Of the breeders I emailed and spoke with even when they had puppies on the ground and knew the numbers and sexes, there was no mention of deposits until after the grading of the puppies at 8 weeks.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWS View Post
I'm not going to say until I receive my money back. I'm hoping it does not escalate until anything serious. I hope the breeder just owns up to it.
Hope I'm wrong, but I'm betting this goes south in a hurry and you have to out them to get your money back...if that even works.

The picture....well that says it all.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I don't really know of any reputable breeders who require puppy deposits, before a litter is even born.
Wow I do and they are big names too.


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 12:41 PM
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A deposit before the litter is on the ground isn't unusual in my area. Or with some reputable breeders elsewhere. Most breeders have a rough idea of litter size at ultrasound and have a more firm determination upon xray. And in some highly sought after breedings, they tend to use a deposit to weed out the not so serious people.

With that said, I didn't take deposits until the pups were a few weeks old even.
I think I'm curious about what Texas breeder this photo came from? I can't imagine they would be too happy.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 01:04 PM
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I would be very reluctant to give a deposit money for a litter that is not on the ground from a breeder that i have not had prior dealings with. Unless it was someone that was HIGHLY recommended from a trusted source and the trusted source facilitated much of the initial contacts.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 01:15 PM
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How was the deposit made to the breeder? If you did it by credit card or Paypal I would file a claim that way to get the process started. I would also make sure to keep all emails (as I am sure you know that). By check, I would call my Bank and let them know what is going on.


There are so many scammers out there- how did you find out about this breeder?

Also, have you googled their name to see if anything comes up as far as people in the past having issues?


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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-16-2015, 03:39 AM
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Hope you got your money back.

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-16-2015, 01:00 PM
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If the breeder sent you a picture of a puppy she did not own and said this was your puppy, this is fraud. I see no reason to ask questions on DT, as if this happened you need to either get a refund or file charges on her. Telling the truth is not slander.
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