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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 11:55 AM
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I came on board here to ask about breeders and just to talk about Dobermans. All I am finding here is a bunch of people trashing anyone who has a nice website and their dogs, even admittedly not knowing these breeders. There are definitely alot of "backyard" breeders out there to peddle their dogs and the unsavory types but I think the negatives on this message board are really based on alot of dirt slinging. I have seen numerous posts from someone asking about a breeder and then getting slammed with posts about how they are "volume breeders", or their website is too "nice" and so on and so on bunch of dirt. I am just over it. I will go somewhere else to a less vicious place. Adios!!!!
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 12:20 PM
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Um, bye? (Oh, and welcome to the internet.)

If there wasn't some basis for those accusations, they wouldn't be made in the first place. If you want to know how "good" a breeder is, ask the rescue folks how many of that breeder's dogs have gone through their doors. Volume breeders have high numbers in rescue, and that reeks of irresponsible breeding.

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
I came on board here to ask about breeders and just to talk about Dobermans. All I am finding here is a bunch of people trashing anyone who has a nice website and their dogs, even admittedly not knowing these breeders. There are definitely alot of "backyard" breeders out there to peddle their dogs and the unsavory types but I think the negatives on this message board are really based on alot of dirt slinging. I have seen numerous posts from someone asking about a breeder and then getting slammed with posts about how they are "volume breeders", or their website is too "nice" and so on and so on bunch of dirt. I am just over it. I will go somewhere else to a less vicious place. Adios!!!!
Then try asking about a reputable breeder. There are plenty out there to choose from. Need recommendations? Just ask.

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 05:50 PM
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Yikes! Anyone can have a flashy website and I would consider the opinions from the people in the know on this website to be invaluable. Ilexxx may have already had his/her heart set on a LeGuard pup and doesn't want to hear any bad press, especially if money has already exchanged hands(?). (Just checked out the site and there is a $300 non-refundable deposit - that would be an immediate red flag to me...)

BTW - didn't a Marienburg Dobe show as Best of Breed at Westchester this year?

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ilexxx View Post
Please tell me why as I am considering buying a pup from her.

You were told and now you are upset. That's o.k., stick around please and ask lot's of questions and check out the forum. I'm pretty sure the people who have replied have had first hand experience with Legard. Don't leave the forum, there is much to learn here!

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-22-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ilexxx View Post
I came on board here to ask about breeders and just to talk about Dobermans. All I am finding here is a bunch of people trashing anyone who has a nice website and their dogs, even admittedly not knowing these breeders. There are definitely alot of "backyard" breeders out there to peddle their dogs and the unsavory types but I think the negatives on this message board are really based on alot of dirt slinging. I have seen numerous posts from someone asking about a breeder and then getting slammed with posts about how they are "volume breeders", or their website is too "nice" and so on and so on bunch of dirt. I am just over it. I will go somewhere else to a less vicious place. Adios!!!!
Nice websites don't cut it in the showring, if a winning show dog is what you are after. Great show dogs come from generations of careful breeding! They don't happen by accident! And responsible breeders do all the health testing possible, are very concerned about the homes the puppies go to and are there for the dog if the new owner can't keep it for any reason. I'm not a breeder so don't think I have any axe to grind. I'll tell you one other thing, the really good breeders don't need a 'nice website' to sell the puppies as most of them have a list of people standing in line for the puppies. A 'nice website has never been my criteria in looking for a nice puppy.
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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-22-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilexxx View Post
I came on board here to ask about breeders and just to talk about Dobermans. All I am finding here is a bunch of people trashing anyone who has a nice website and their dogs, even admittedly not knowing these breeders. There are definitely alot of "backyard" breeders out there to peddle their dogs and the unsavory types but I think the negatives on this message board are really based on alot of dirt slinging. I have seen numerous posts from someone asking about a breeder and then getting slammed with posts about how they are "volume breeders", or their website is too "nice" and so on and so on bunch of dirt. I am just over it. I will go somewhere else to a less vicious place. Adios!!!!

Sorry you feel this way....the only thing I've found from this group is that they want the best for the breed and the actual dogs~PERIOD! They are not out to just trash everyone...they know what they are talking about! I don't always like what some have to say....but take it in and digest it, and you know what?! Most times the "experts" on here are correct. Once you have a doberman it is hard to accept a volume breeder if their dogs are kept in kennels....no doberman ever deserves to be kept that way. Every single one deserves its own home. I never thought of it that way....until I heard it here. I've also learned that ALL DOG BREEDS SHOULD ONLY BE BRED BY EXPERTS! Having recently lost my beautiful Weimaraner Mason to Epilepsy....I now see that all sorts of problems can happen when anyone breeds a dog, and it takes generations to get rid of the problems. I've learned a TON of Great information that will help me to keep my beloved Petey happy and healthy and have him be a credit to the breed. I thank every single person on here for their help over the last few months!

Carol & Petey!
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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 08:34 PM
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Of course a website doesn't make the dog. Just an excuse to label someone you don't know a "volume breeder". I have a male pup from Legard and I can first hand say he is the everything and more I could have hoped for. His temperment is wonderful. He has awesome conformation and he is well bred. You people here are a bunch of snots in my opinion. For all of you trashing Kathy Gardner and her dogs, Please let me know who first hand has one of her dogs or has visited her kennel. My point was not that a nice web page makes a nice dog. My point IS that you all are making a judgement based on a web page that this lady is a volume breeder and worse. I came here with an open mind and thank god I didn't listen to any of you. See you in the show ring in the fall!!!!!
post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 08:44 PM
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I suppose that's your prerogative. Enjoy your boy, but remember that many of these people online will be ringside with you. I wouldn't start smearing your boy around playing the "I told you so" game, it ALWAYS comes back to bite you.
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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilexxx View Post
Of course a website doesn't make the dog. Just an excuse to label someone you don't know a "volume breeder". I have a male pup from Legard and I can first hand say he is the everything and more I could have hoped for. His temperment is wonderful. He has awesome conformation and he is well bred. You people here are a bunch of snots in my opinion. For all of you trashing Kathy Gardner and her dogs, Please let me know who first hand has one of her dogs or has visited her kennel. My point was not that a nice web page makes a nice dog. My point IS that you all are making a judgement based on a web page that this lady is a volume breeder and worse. I came here with an open mind and thank god I didn't listen to any of you. See you in the show ring in the fall!!!!!
there are plenty of quality breeders that have nice websites too, but on careful examination of that website there are many red flags that should deter someone looking for a well rounded doberman. If you want me to point a few out i can certainly help. A few of the members on here shared their knowlege of this breeder so i don't think it's fair to say they are just judging based on the website. And you obviously have a different opinion from them based on your experience.
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Does anyone have insight about Legard?
The intention of this thread was for members to give insight to this breeder, there will always be mixed opinions about every controversial topic posted on a public forum. I'm sure you have a great dog and I'm glad your experience with this breeder has been a good one.

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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 10:04 PM
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Who is smearing???? I think you all are smearing a breeder who has been breeding dobermans for over 30 years who you admittedly don't know. It is really pretty crappy to trash a breeder when you have no first hand knowledge of her dogs and her breedings. I HAVE had a first hand experience with this breeder and everything I heard on these boards was totally UNTRUE. Know your facts and who you are talking about before you post. If you are going to post negatives about any breeder, get your facts straight and don't just make assumptions based on impressions. You are entitled to your opinions but it is terrible to put derogatory information out about any breeder when you don't know them,especially when people come here for advice.
post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 10:37 PM
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If I read correctly earlier, jdd had experience and knew of examples where your breeder could have done things in a better manner. The world of dobermans isn't enormous, if you're around long enough you learn things about people and their dogs, nothing in the dog world happens in a vacuum.

Unfortunately where living creatures are involved, it is better to err on the side of caution and report what you've heard rather than just keep quiet and see what happens. As far as I have heard, no one posted anything that wasn't factual. The truth can't be defamatory. Some posted about the way the website struck them, and many of us know enough about doberman lines to get the "ick factor" when we look at pedigrees or descriptions of dogs. There are patterns among breeders that one eventually begins to notice that make you think twice about adding their dogs to your family.

I'm sure your boy is wonderful and beautiful and lovely, and no one is saying that he isn't. However, many of us (some of the first to comment are VERY knowledgeable about dobes and dobe people) will not sugar coat our opinions about breeders because someone MAY end up with a bad example of a dobe and that can be bad for all of us. Especially with all the BSL flying around lately.

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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 12:24 AM
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You yourself asked for opinions on this breeder on the very first page of this thread. You got exactly what you asked for, honest opinions. You said you wanted opinions BEFORE you bought your puppy. You obviously had your mind set no matter what anyone said, so why bother asking? And why whine if the vast majority of respected doberman breeders and owners disagree with you since you don't care anyway?

Opinions were shared, you don't need to like them.

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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 12:36 AM
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The people and their dogs may be friendly and well taken care of but the business and breeding ethics are giving me the chills. think this is what gave everyone the "Ick" feeling. I'm sorry if you find the previous posts offensive or not based on actual experiences, but this really says it all for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legard Dobermans
Am reducing all of our Dobermans and will be placing at least 5 into permanent new homes, They are only currently available in order for me to be able to keep "Future" puppies, possibly from some of our future litters as well as bring in some "limited new lines" that have much promise for titles as well as many other aspects. We will only be placing only 5 of our adults, once we have placed the 5th adult we will most likely be keeping the others. I will place any of the acceptable breeding girls Pre-bred to any of our sires for an additional fee. Some maybe placed in retirement homes only. This is a limited one time offer that will expire soon, While selection is still good, and dogs are available, First come basis to approved homes only!

If your looking for a cheap dog these are not for you!

We reserve the right to refuse a placement to anyone at anytime.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Legard Dobermans
Am reducing all of our Dobermans and will be placing at least 5 into permanent new homes, They are only currently available in order for me to be able to keep "Future" puppies, possibly from some of our future litters as well as bring in some "limited new lines" that have much promise for titles as well as many other aspects. We will only be placing only 5 of our adults, once we have placed the 5th adult we will most likely be keeping the others. I will place any of the acceptable breeding girls Pre-bred to any of our sires for an additional fee. Some maybe placed in retirement homes only. This is a limited one time offer that will expire soon, While selection is still good, and dogs are available, First come basis to approved homes only!

If your looking for a cheap dog these are not for you!

We reserve the right to refuse a placement to anyone at anytime.

************************************************** ***

All I can say is WOW, now that sounds like a breeder who really cares about their dogs - NOT! What it says to me is this "these bitches are used up and we don't want them anymore, but you could probably get one more litter out of them if you want." Sounds like it could be a end of season clearance sale to me............ surely not the dumping of dogs that the breeder does not give a sh*t about anymore. Out with the old and in with the new - sounds like a great life for a dog - HUH - you know loving family ... nice bed to sleep on......... walks around the neighborhood....... hugs and kisses from the people who love her. Oh wait wrong breeder, I'm betting these clearance sale bitches live in a cement kennel that gets hosed off and some dry kibble.........no treats under the table for them, no family, no love.......... just lots of puppies to pump - now they are for sale and can pump some more puppies for the next owner.......... sounds like a used car.

But sure, they are a wonderful breeder. You'd like to think so for the price they charge wouldn't you. People get their wonderful puppy, and never give another thought to the poor bitch that produced it...........afterall, she is just a money making puppy pumping machine

Sorry, but I'm a little grumpy at 2:30 am when I have insomnia.

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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velmadobe View Post
Originally Posted by Legard Dobermans
Am reducing all of our Dobermans and will be placing at least 5 into permanent new homes, They are only currently available in order for me to be able to keep "Future" puppies, possibly from some of our future litters as well as bring in some "limited new lines" that have much promise for titles as well as many other aspects. We will only be placing only 5 of our adults, once we have placed the 5th adult we will most likely be keeping the others. I will place any of the acceptable breeding girls Pre-bred to any of our sires for an additional fee. Some maybe placed in retirement homes only. This is a limited one time offer that will expire soon, While selection is still good, and dogs are available, First come basis to approved homes only!

If your looking for a cheap dog these are not for you!

We reserve the right to refuse a placement to anyone at anytime.

************************************************** ***

All I can say is WOW, now that sounds like a breeder who really cares about their dogs - NOT! What it says to me is this "these bitches are used up and we don't want them anymore, but you could probably get one more litter out of them if you want." Sounds like it could be a end of season clearance sale to me............ surely not the dumping of dogs that the breeder does not give a sh*t about anymore. Out with the old and in with the new - sounds like a great life for a dog - HUH - you know loving family ... nice bed to sleep on......... walks around the neighborhood....... hugs and kisses from the people who love her. Oh wait wrong breeder, I'm betting these clearance sale bitches live in a cement kennel that gets hosed off and some dry kibble.........no treats under the table for them, no family, no love.......... just lots of puppies to pump - now they are for sale and can pump some more puppies for the next owner.......... sounds like a used car.

But sure, they are a wonderful breeder. You'd like to think so for the price they charge wouldn't you. People get their wonderful puppy, and never give another thought to the poor bitch that produced it...........afterall, she is just a money making puppy pumping machine

Sorry, but I'm a little grumpy at 2:30 am when I have insomnia.
I agree with everything stated above.
It is 6:15 a.m. and this makes me mad. Hope I keep my cool. Yesterday it was 105 degrees here-I don`t want to get any hotter.
Wish a full blown add could be taken out with this.
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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ilexxx View Post
I have a male pup from Legard and I can first hand say he is the everything and more I could have hoped for.

His temperment is wonderful.

He has awesome conformation and he is well bred.

I came here with an open mind and thank god I didn't listen to any of you.

See you in the show ring in the fall!!!!!
No you didn't come here with an open mind. You came here wanting to hear what a wonderful place Legard was and what fantastic dogs they have. Then you got mad when you didn't hear what you wanted to hear.

Please let us know what your dogs' registered name is so we can look for him in the ring this fall. Personally I can't wait to hear about all his wins!!! Don't forget to have his picture taken with the judge. I would love to see that.

Aaahhh, you could post some pics of him in your gallery.

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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 05:07 PM
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Well, best of luck with your new puppy. The one thing that you will find out is that the Doberman breed ring is very competitive. If you are going to owner-handle or even hand your dog off at ringside, you will be up again folks that have been at this game for a long time. Their show dogs live with them and the near perfect show stance becomes almost a natural reacton for their dogs. So to be competitive as novice in the breed ring with owner-handling or even handing off at ringside you need a dog with no major problems and quite a few pieces of perfection. And those pieces of perfection come from some place, they don't fall out of the hat!

I didn't comment in my first post re your breeder as I don't know them or their dogs. I responded to you that in my opinion, a fancy website has nothing to do with the quality of a puppy, after you brought up the fancy website.

The people who responded to you were sincerely trying to help you. Again, best of luck with the new puppy.
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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2007, 06:34 PM
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Please let us know what your dogs' registered name is so we can look for him in the ring this fall.

Is this a threat??? Sure sounds like it.
post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2007, 08:05 PM
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Please let us know what your dogs' registered name is so we can look for him in the ring this fall.

Is this a threat??? Sure sounds like it.
Not at all - most people are interested in looking at dogs in the ring - that is the whole point of showing dogs ........... to evaluate breeding stock.

If you are planning on showing your dog, people would like to watch for him........can't do that if we don't know his name. My dogs names are right at the bottom of all of my posts. I'm proud of them and will shout it from the roof tops.

No one here is going to think any less of you for buying a dog from what many of us consider a volume breeder/greeder. My first Doberman came from a back yard breeder and I loved her for her whole life. After getting a little educated, I realized that she was NOT anywhere close to what a Doberman should be........... and I sure as heck never defended her breeder. IMHO breeders like yours are a step up from a byber that knows nothing about the dogs they breed, but still do the breed no favors. In todays world of BSL we have to become more vigilant not less.

Her website states that the puppies are born in her house and that is nice but I'd bet dollars to donuts (don't have enough money to bet real cash) that the majority of her dogs live in kennels............. and when she is done with them, she gets rid of them. She is not the only breeder to do this................ but I'm really not interested in that kind of breeder and I will strive to be a totally different kind of breeder. My dogs are not an ends to a mean - they are beloved family pets and they live with us for their whole life - indoors.

I do wish you luck with your Dobe - I hope you love him and learn with him and he lives to a ripe old age. Where he came from is unimportant now - he is yours. What we do wish is for you to learn here. Getting defensive is natural, but it won't further your Doberman education.

Mary Jo Ansel
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AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
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post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 09:55 PM
jdd
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They no longer put all of their breedings on their web page. One year I know first hand that they had AT LEAST 10 litters. And that Pizzazz was bred 5 times but died before she whelped her 5th litter. And she had large litters.
She also breeds Chihuahua's now.
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 04:52 AM
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I just had to look for myself at the LeGard site. It made me sad. Looks like a big operation for $. The stacking of the puppies looked cruel. Looked like slap them on the table, hold them tight, snap pics--next. Nothing positive in that method. No treat in front to encourage, pups look frighten and ready to flee if they could get away. Good for the imprint stage-huh?
Funny thing is before the internet I might have thought this was a good breeder--I have learned a lot and glad I am continuing to do so.
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