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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Question Cancer and pedigree

Question: If there's quite a few occurences of cancer as cause of death in a particular pedigree, does it mean that the progeny are more susceptible to cancer as well, or does it not work that way and it doesn't get "passed along"?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 09:51 AM
 
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This is an excellent article on "hereditary cancer" and the probabilities of it developing in families for people, I would imagine it would be very similar in all species, with regard to changes in cells and genes

Hereditary Cancer: Hereditary cancer and cancer genetics
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelestis View Post
This is an excellent article on "hereditary cancer" and the probabilities of it developing in families for people, I would imagine it would be very similar in all species, with regard to changes in cells and genes

Hereditary Cancer: Hereditary cancer and cancer genetics

Thanks so much for the link!! I knew a little bit about hereditary cancer in humans, but nothing in terms of dogs/dobes, and was just wondering if there was any knowledge base among breeders on this matter.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:14 AM
 
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There has been very little research about cancer in dogs as compared to humans, but what I have read suggests that it's pretty similar, no big surprise there...the link I posted gives a good basic understanding that can be logically, for the most part, applied to our pets...or so we're told we can assume...but there are some cancers that occur more frequently in dogs than people, like lymphoma for example. I think dogs are highly susceptible to cancers because of the crap they are exposed to, we're more careful with human foods, chemical exposure etc.... than we are with animals.

I'd think, from all I have read, that some lines are more likely to develop certain forms of cancer because of the genes they inherit that may either protect, or leave them less protected, just like humans, but I don't think you can "catch" cancer or pass it down from generation to generation, just the propensity for developing it, if exposed to the right..or wrong I guess....environmental factors.

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Thanks so much for the link!! I knew a little bit about hereditary cancer in humans, but nothing in terms of dogs/dobes, and was just wondering if there was any knowledge base among breeders on this matter.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:23 AM
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hey
no reason to doubt that it would be any different in dogs, or any mammal for that matter, than it is in humans.

cancer is a tricky topic since its not a "disease" technically.. your own cells are turning against you due to the dysregulation of several different cellular processes.

there is strong reason to believe that several types of cancer do tend to be genetic as Ceal mentioned, but of course a lot is unknown in this field of science... hell.. if it wasn't i'd be out of a job.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelestis View Post
I'd think, from all I have read, that some lines are more likely to develop certain forms of cancer because of the genes they inherit that may either protect, or leave them less protected, just like humans, but I don't think you can "catch" cancer or pass it down from generation to generation, just the propensity for developing it, if exposed to the right..or wrong I guess....environmental factors.
That makes alot of sense, and is kinda reassuring to know that environmental and other external factors still play a role in determining whether cancer will develop. Just been looking at some pedigrees and noticed cancer occuring over a couple of generations ... though the snapshot of info i have is quite preliminary and i will have to do some more digging to get a more complete/balanced picture.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexxsmom View Post
there is strong reason to believe that several types of cancer do tend to be genetic as Ceal mentioned, but of course a lot is unknown in this field of science... hell.. if it wasn't i'd be out of a job.

I wonder if there is any sort of "knowledge" concerning which type of cancers appear to be genetic in Dobes/dogs?? Hmmm.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:34 AM
 
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There are 2 surefire ways we are going to die, same with our pets...cancer or heart. If one doesn't gets us the other will and dogs, given the crap we feed them and expose them too, their smaller bodies, and naturally shorter lifespans we will see far more cancer in our pets. I don't think we can avoid it, sadly.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:35 AM
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And then don't forget to add in the latest research/debate about whether spaying and neutering cuts down on the risk of certain cancers...


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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:41 AM
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i think that the prevalence of cancer in dogs and more importantly in people hasn't really changed over the last few decades, but our ability to treat other problems has.

people often speak to me about how we must not be researching fast enough because the prevalence of cancer is getting so much higher every year. The truth is, cancer has always been around. Its always been common, its just that 50 years ago when the life expectancy of a human was only 75 instead of people commonly living until 90-100, we just didn't see cancer as much because they were killed by something else first. Also, medical technology is improving in leaps and bounds... what we may not have been able to identify 20, even 10, 5 years ago we might now be able to determine is cancer. giving people the idea that its a lot MORE common now, which is simply not the case.

as for dogs, their lifespan is accelerated compared to ours, so cancers appear fairly freqeuntly in older dogs. lymphomas i know are common. This is also due to improvements in vet care, dogs and cats are surviving other medical crises that they never would have before and are living longer, increasing cancer risk in later life due to age

cael's point about exposure is important as well, chemical agents, pollution, bad quality food etc could of course contribute to cancer development as well... however... depending on who you talk to, ANYTHING can cause cancer from CFCs to drinking water, apples to sunshine.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:46 AM
 
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Agreed...and with the advent of internet we know about a lot more forms of cancer and hear about more of our "internet friends" and their pet's health issues etc...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexxsmom View Post
i think that the prevalence of cancer in dogs and more importantly in people hasn't really changed over the last few decades, but our ability to treat other problems has.

people often speak to me about how we must not be researching fast enough because the prevalence of cancer is getting so much higher every year. The truth is, cancer has always been around. Its always been common, its just that 50 years ago when the life expectancy of a human was only 75 instead of people commonly living until 90-100, we just didn't see cancer as much because they were killed by something else first. Also, medical technology is improving in leaps and bounds... what we may not have been able to identify 20, even 10, 5 years ago we might now be able to determine is cancer. giving people the idea that its a lot MORE common now, which is simply not the case.

as for dogs, their lifespan is accelerated compared to ours, so cancers appear fairly freqeuntly in older dogs. lymphomas i know are common. This is also due to improvements in vet care, dogs and cats are surviving other medical crises that they never would have before and are living longer, increasing cancer risk in later life due to age

cael's point about exposure is important as well, chemical agents, pollution, bad quality food etc could of course contribute to cancer development as well... however... depending on who you talk to, ANYTHING can cause cancer from CFCs to drinking water, apples to sunshine.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 10:53 AM
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I hate to use the word genetic here but I have seen cancer from one generation to the next in many pedigrees, especially mammory cancer, of couse this could be affected by age of spay, but it's still interesting
Also I think people forget alot of low quality foods contain food that says it can be cancer causing, I wonder how much this has to do with anything, same as DCM I wonder how much fatty food/lesser quality food has to do with this. Just my thoughts..


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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I hate to use the word genetic here but I have seen cancer from one generation to the next in many pedigrees, especially mammory cancer, of couse this could be affected by age of spay, but it's still interesting
That is interesting, i was noticing the same thing too a pedigree i've been looking at from the standpoint of a completely inexperienced eye. Maybe i should try to find out what type of cancers occured to see if i can spot any patterns. Very interesting.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiera View Post
That is interesting, i was noticing the same thing too a pedigree i've been looking at from the standpoint of a completely inexperienced eye. Maybe i should try to find out what type of cancers occured to see if i can spot any patterns. Very interesting.
If it doesn't list what type of cancer I would definetly ask and see if your seeing the same thing repeated or totally different types of cancer. Cancer is so hit and miss, same as DCM. But it's best to try to avoid either where they are clearly carried from one generation to the next or siblings.


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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 12:16 PM
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It seems like there are entire breeds where cancer is common (at young ages), like flat coated retrievers, certain kinds of cancer are all too common in other breeds. That leads me to suspect there's a strong genetic influence. But I'm sure environment plays a part in it as well.

In terms of pedigree research, I'd look for the same thing as I would for any other disease-age at death, as well as cause. If you see generation after generation of dogs dying young in a pedigree, I wouldn't want a piece of it, regardless of what the cause of death might be.



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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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In terms of pedigree research, I'd look for the same thing as I would for any other disease-age at death, as well as cause. If you see generation after generation of dogs dying young in a pedigree, I wouldn't want a piece of it, regardless of what the cause of death might be.
Absolutely agree!!!

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