Anyone know anything about Dobermanempire - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone know anything about Dobermanempire

Hey, anyone know anything about Doberman Empire in Florida?

doberman empire / Florida
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:43 AM
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The name says it all. BYB/Greeder.
The lack of health info alone would be enough to run the other direction.

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:44 AM
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Judging from their website they're typical byb concentrating on the usual "big is best" mentality. Look at the dogs' conformation and incorrect size.

Please read the standard for the Doberman and a few of the other stickies here. This is exactly the kind of breeder to stay away from.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:53 AM
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HORRIBLE crops on many of their "breeding stock". Looks like poor structure on most of the dogs, no mention of health testing, would seriously RUN, not walk in the opposite direction from a greeder like this!

Champion bloodlines? If you fall for that I have an awesome bridge for sale, cheap..
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:06 PM
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Oversized dogs with incomplete health testing. Not someone I would buy from, or recommend to anyone else.

These threads will help you know what to look for.
https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...formation.html
https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...documents.html
https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html

Good places to start looking for a breeder are the DPCA breeder referral DPCA | The Doberman | Breeder Referral and the UDC breeder referral UDC Breeder Directory Once you find one that interests you, you can run them by DT for feedback. Not all of the breeders on the referral lists are as ethical as they could be, and there are also lots of good, ethical breeders that aren't on the lists.


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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:08 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^

What they said. Oh my god the crop on that one dog!


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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:08 PM
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Breed all their females to the same dog. A dog that they own. Back yard breeder at its worst.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 01:53 PM
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I like Euro dobermans and they should still not be as big as those dogs - I would stay far away from them. Anyone who brags about how big their dobermans are normally does not know what they are talking about. Half the dogs dont have their pedigrees up and there is no individual health testing to see either.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermama View Post
HORRIBLE crops on many of their "breeding stock". Looks like poor structure on most of the dogs, no mention of health testing, would seriously RUN, not walk in the opposite direction from a greeder like this!

Champion bloodlines? If you fall for that I have an awesome bridge for sale, cheap..
Well, to play fair, there *is* a mention of health testing on their home page--it's just utter crap claims, though, apparently.

Some of those animals aren't old enough to have OFA hip results, yet that's what they claim on that page.

OP, it becomes your task, when you search these websites, to sort the bullshite from the substance, you know?

The bullshite on there includes that sort of health claim, when it can't be true if you know how these screenings are conducted, AND it includes their grandiose claim that they are breeding a "superior size and quality" Doberman, while adhering to the breed standard.

That's like telling someone they're smartdumb.

Oversized Dobermans are *out* of the breed standard, and are generally the result of poor breeding practices and poor decisions on the breeder's choice of animals. They tend to not be very athletic or agile--two beloved traits of the Doberman to those who've owned a true typical one--and often have early onset of arthritis and other joint issues.

Add to that they are NOT actually competing with their Dobermans, so saying they are abiding by the standard and having something "quality" is just as believable as if I wrote on some website that I am worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize, The Fisher Medal in mathematics, and will be featured on the SI Swimsuit issue cover next Spring

Don't get duped.




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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 07:44 PM
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What is it that is drawing you to them?
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
What is it that is drawing you to them?
nothing at all, my wife told me about them and I said we should avoid, she didn't agree with me so I thought I'd get feedback on here
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 06:40 AM
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They are even offering stud service


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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:51 PM
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My personal experience..

I know this thread is old but I would just like to post this for anyone who happens to see it in the future. I googled "Doberman Empire" to go to his site (I keep up with the upcoming litters) and I happened to scroll down and see this post. I just wanted to set the record straight and give information from someone who has actually seen his dogs/business in person and who became a very happy customer. I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect. We got their health certificates from him as well as papers we could send in to register them. We have taken our girls to 2 different vet clinics (one for emergencies, one for regular appointments) and all of the vets who have seen them have paid us high compliments on the quality of dogs they are. Adel is beyond professional and he and his wife adore all of the puppies they have while they have them. He asked me to keep in touch and I have, and he always responds when I send him photos/texts updating him on the girls. He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can. Anywho, sorry for the novel. I just hated to see such negative things written about such a good man and his kennel. I would HIGHLY suggest Adel at Doberman Empire. No if's, and's or but's about it!
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
I know this thread is old but I would just like to post this for anyone who happens to see it in the future. I googled "Doberman Empire" to go to his site (I keep up with the upcoming litters) and I happened to scroll down and see this post. I just wanted to set the record straight and give information from someone who has actually seen his dogs/business in person and who became a very happy customer.

Welcome to DT.

I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect.

Since they sold you two puppies at the same time, really should read up on littermate syndrome. https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...-syndrome.html

We got their health certificates from him as well as papers we could send in to register them. We have taken our girls to 2 different vet clinics (one for emergencies, one for regular appointments) and all of the vets who have seen them have paid us high compliments on the quality of dogs they are.


A vet's certificate on a puppy isn't "health testing", it's something that is required by law in the state of Florida, stating that the puppy appears to be healthy at the time of sale. Health testing is done on the parents before breeding them. https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...documents.html

Also, unless they are ethical breeders of a particular breed themselves, most vets don't know the finer points of the standard. My vet thinks that my GSD, who is a walking example of poor conformation and breed type, is gorgeous. So do I, for that matter, but I, at least, have a better grasp on what makes her a poor quality dog.

One of these is quoted from the Doberman standard, and one is from the Great Dane standard:

"The male shall not be less than 30 inches at the shoulders, but it is preferable that he be 32 inches or more, providing he is well proportioned to his height. The female shall not be less than 28 inches at the shoulders, but it is preferable that she be 30 inches or more, providing she is well proportioned to her height."

"Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27½ inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25½ inches."

From the Doberman Empire website on King Leonidas di Altobello's page: "Stands at 32 inches high Weighs 125 lbs"


Adel is beyond professional and he and his wife adore all of the puppies they have while they have them. He asked me to keep in touch and I have, and he always responds when I send him photos/texts updating him on the girls. He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can. Anywho, sorry for the novel. I just hated to see such negative things written about such a good man and his kennel. I would HIGHLY suggest Adel at Doberman Empire. No if's, and's or but's about it!
None of what was posted in this thread was "negative". Their dogs are oversized, per information posted on their website. Their dogs come from a known US puppymill (Kimbertal) and a known European commercial kennel (Altobello), per information posted on their website. Their dogs lack titles, per information listed on their website. Their dogs don't have complete health testing, per information shown on their website. They were expecting FOUR litters in June and July, per information shown on their website.


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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 01:04 PM
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Just took a look out of curiosity at their website... King Leonidas is grossly overweight. I mean he is literally obese. I didn't go any further for his confo analysis. I find it interesting that they claim "100% Champion European bloodline". Super misleading (intentionally?) it makes it sound like his bloodline is composed of only champions, and only European champions at that. Which is a lie - his dam is US bred and if you look on the bottom of the pedigree her damline seems to be only american names, and as for champion titles, I cannot be arsed to verify them all independently but for sure his dam and granddam are not. Kimbertal doesn't show, if it wasn't titled before import, anything they own or breed isn't a Ch. Which means King Leonidas is likely not a Ch (and honestly he wouldn't title even if you took him to a local show in Transnistria while bribing judges and officials. He is out of standard and obese, period. Unless there is some Transnistrian Doberman Club Standard I am not aware of that includes Dane-sized dobies, in which case, by all means, go title him).

I also find it interesting (and highly misleading) that they named him King Leonidas Di Altobello even though he was bred by Kimbertal (coincidence?)... isn't there some kind of law or at least a rule to protect Kennel names? I know Altobello is a huge commercial breeder but they do produce some successful showdogs too and that... is just not that level of quality.

From Altobello's website:
Quote:
Altobello Office in North America
Due to the frequent misuse of our name, cheated dozens of clients who believed they bought real "Altobello" puppy and in fact they were just victims of some no-name dog dealers and backyard breeders who are using our name and sell their own dogs to make profit.

To make this stop, in addition to the existing [email protected], we opened one more new Altobello office located in North America - Toronto, Canada.

For the further information about Altobello Dobermanns in Toronto please contact Staniša and Svetlana Maluckov to the following e-mail addresses:

[email protected] and [email protected] or call:

+15195903722 Staniša +15192397947 Svetlana
uh oh. I think I am going to be sending out some emails.


Now... as I continue to dissect their website...

Hunter doesn't look obese fortunately for him but he has a wet neck (especially at the throat latch) and his ears look incorrect according to the new FCI standard that allows natural ears. They say outstanding bloodline yet give no pedigree or parentage. No health testing mentioned.

Viking... has a roman nose, a glaring fault in a dobe head (imo). Lacking a proper confo shot. Looks a bit fat but not as obese as poor ol' king leo. Bred by Kimbertal says it all again, he's not titled which means he's not a champion
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
I know this thread is old but I would just like to post this for anyone who happens to see it in the future. I googled "Doberman Empire" to go to his site (I keep up with the upcoming litters) and I happened to scroll down and see this post. I just wanted to set the record straight and give information from someone who has actually seen his dogs/business in person and who became a very happy customer. I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect. We got their health certificates from him as well as papers we could send in to register them. We have taken our girls to 2 different vet clinics (one for emergencies, one for regular appointments) and all of the vets who have seen them have paid us high compliments on the quality of dogs they are. Adel is beyond professional and he and his wife adore all of the puppies they have while they have them. He asked me to keep in touch and I have, and he always responds when I send him photos/texts updating him on the girls. He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can. Anywho, sorry for the novel. I just hated to see such negative things written about such a good man and his kennel. I would HIGHLY suggest Adel at Doberman Empire. No if's, and's or but's about it!
You obviously did zero research before purchasing your dogs and know very little about dobermans in general - your opinion is not something anyone should look to for practical advice.

The facts are they do zero health testing. Zero showing. Zero titles. Breeding over sized and out of standard dogs. Their dogs are obese.

They literally do nothing put slap any two dogs together and pump out litter after litter after litter.

Backyard breeder through and through. I'm sure they are nice people, but they don't care about the doberman breed at all. They do nothing to improve the gene pool ;(

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
I know this thread is old but I would just like to post this for anyone who happens to see it in the future. I googled "Doberman Empire" to go to his site (I keep up with the upcoming litters) and I happened to scroll down and see this post. I just wanted to set the record straight and give information from someone who has actually seen his dogs/business in person and who became a very happy customer. I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect. We got their health certificates from him as well as papers we could send in to register them. We have taken our girls to 2 different vet clinics (one for emergencies, one for regular appointments) and all of the vets who have seen them have paid us high compliments on the quality of dogs they are. Adel is beyond professional and he and his wife adore all of the puppies they have while they have them. He asked me to keep in touch and I have, and he always responds when I send him photos/texts updating him on the girls. He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can. Anywho, sorry for the novel. I just hated to see such negative things written about such a good man and his kennel. I would HIGHLY suggest Adel at Doberman Empire. No if's, and's or but's about it!
Welcome to the forum.

We'd love to see some pics of your girls, and hear some puppy stories.

Do read that linked article on littermate syndrome. It's very important for the mental well-being of your girls.

This breeder may be personable, and perhaps even charming, but he sure is NOT ethical.

You have no idea how many of your girls' ancestors died of heart disease. You have no idea if your girls' parents are even now in the occult, undiagnosed stage of cardio disease. You don't know what chance your girls have of developing eye problems, thyroid issues, liver issues, or hip dysplasia, because this breeder doesn't care or know enough about either his dogs or the puppies they produce, to conduct all those expensive and time-consuming health screenings.

It's early days, and while I sincerely hope you do well with your girls, and beat those bad odds, chances are someday you will learn a difficult and heartbreaking lesson. Many here on DT have walked that same path.

Please reconsider giving referrals and recommendations for ANY breeder, until you've had a chance to learn more about breed health issues, the importance of good conformation, and how ethical breeders plan, produce, raise, and place their litters.




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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 03:57 PM
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By the way, their oldest dogs are only FIVE years old.

Assuming they name alphabetically, which it appears they do, since the have litters P, Q, R, and S on the ground, that is 19 litters.

You say that the majority of their pups are being sire by King Leonidas... well he just turned two in January. Why the heck were they breeding a puppy?

Speaking of puppies, the dam of the Q litter won't be two until November. The dam of the R litter was two in June. The dam of the S litter won't be two until NEXT MARCH! It's bad enough breeding an under-aged male. Breeding an oversized, year old, puppy bitch is unconscionable, IMO.


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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can.
Well, no one has a crystal ball that I know of, so one would think it would be wise to limit breedings in some respect because if that dog drops dead at an inappropriate age, then whatever got him will have been spread far and wide to a lot of puppies.

Studies are showing that upwards of 60% of Doberman males are developing and dying of dilated cardiomyopathy. The odds are better that the dog will die of it than not, so really, don't you think it makes sense to be careful with the number of puppies you put out there from one dog in a breeding program?

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
I know this thread is old but I would just like to post this for anyone who happens to see it in the future. I googled "Doberman Empire" to go to his site (I keep up with the upcoming litters) and I happened to scroll down and see this post. I just wanted to set the record straight and give information from someone who has actually seen his dogs/business in person and who became a very happy customer. I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect. We got their health certificates from him as well as papers we could send in to register them. We have taken our girls to 2 different vet clinics (one for emergencies, one for regular appointments) and all of the vets who have seen them have paid us high compliments on the quality of dogs they are. Adel is beyond professional and he and his wife adore all of the puppies they have while they have them. He asked me to keep in touch and I have, and he always responds when I send him photos/texts updating him on the girls. He does have the majority of the puppies coming from Leo but he told us he is doing that now because Viking and Hunter aren't producing the same quality of puppies that Leo is. Leo is gorgeous (even more beautiful in person) and his temperament is to die for. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting as many puppies out there from him as he can. Anywho, sorry for the novel. I just hated to see such negative things written about such a good man and his kennel. I would HIGHLY suggest Adel at Doberman Empire. No if's, and's or but's about it!
Can you tell me what you do with your dogs? Do you compete or train them for competition? Do you truly know anything about Dobermans beyond what your breeder tells you?

The fact that he sold you two puppies at the same time tells me everything I need to know about him quite frankly.
Did YOU do any homework before you purchased your dogs?
I would quite honestly like to see them make it illegal for anyone to breed for profit.

I feel sorry for you as you're in the dark about the what a scheister your breeder truly is.

By all means peruse the forums. Pay special attention to the rainbow bridge section, it might just be the wake up call you need.


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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria_goulet View Post
...I got my girls from Adel in February they are absolutely perfect. We got their health certificates from him...
Victoria, I just wanted to pull out this snippet and address it--I forgot to do so, before.

All health certificates mean is that, just prior to transport of an animal, a vet checked to see if the animal was running a fever or otherwise showing symptoms of a possibly contagious illness.

That's it, period.

All it means is the kid didn't show signs of the flu, the day before school, you know?

I think that "health certificate" impresses folks who aren't familiar, but it's simply a legal requirement designed to try to cut down on contagious current illnesses being transported from state to state.

It means zero, in terms of whether your girls will or will not be eventually affected by Doberman-specific hereditary illnesses and disorders.




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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
------

All health certificates mean is that, just prior to transport of an animal, a vet checked to see if the animal was running a fever or otherwise showing symptoms of a possibly contagious illness.

-------

I think that "health certificate" impresses folks who aren't familiar, but it's simply a legal requirement designed to try to cut down on contagious current illnesses being transported from state to state.
It is the law in Florida that a puppy have a current health certificate before it can be sold.


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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
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It is the law in Florida that a puppy have a current health certificate before it can be sold.
And? It still means only that the pup is not currently running a fever or showing signs of a contagious illness.




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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
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And? It still means only that the pup is not currently running a fever or showing signs of a contagious illness.
Its not the law everywhere. Like I said in a previous post, the main reason they got one is that it is the law in Florida.


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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-14-2015, 01:41 AM
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Its not the law everywhere. Like I said in a previous post, the main reason they got one is that it is the law in Florida.
Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure Victoria, if still reading, understands it's not really relevant, and your info confirms that all the more.




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