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Please Help Me find a REPUTABLE Euro Breeder!

15K views 99 replies 25 participants last post by  ViSe 
#1 ·
Can anyone reccomend a reputable Euro Breeder? I've done so much research, and each website makes it sound like they are soooo Great, then I get on here and read some of the stuff people have to say about these breeders. I am new here, and new to the breed. I just want to find a quality pup from a breeder who doesn't lie and say they do this and that blah blah blah on their website! I have a 16 month old, so finding a pup from a breeder who truly temperament tests their dogs is important. Also, I know all the health probs a Dobe can have, so a breeder who really does health test would be great!!! Any suggestions or recommendations?
Thanks!!!
 
#50 ·
My point proven: You feel just because only one dog suffers from this disease (and it is something they can suffer from) is ok, because its helping you create the ultimate working/confirmation dog. One day when we hopefully have more information on DCM and can totally avoid it like we can NOW with vWD I can guarantee you these people will still be around saying "well the gene pool is only so big, so if only one dog suffers from DCM out of this breeding that is ok"
That makes me SICK
The health of a dog should come before ANYTHING - Any breeder that does causes a dog to suffer from vWD to get the ultimate confirmation/working dog they want is doing it for their personal gain.
They CAN simply take longer to get what they want and not have to let ANY dog suffer because of their breeding practices, but because they dont want to wait longer and work harder its easier to just make maybe one affected dog and they will take the chance they might not become affected.....but if they do....oh well. And what about the person that ends up with the heartache of having to see that dog suffer you created? Do you not care at all???? Or does it make it ok because you accomplished what you wanted to with that litter....maybe.
There is NOTHING that separates breeding practices like that and a simple BYB. It might actually make the "respectable breeder"worse because they should have so much education on something that is so SIMPLE.
LINDAH - even though I only joined this forum not too long ago I have studied pedigrees, and health testing for over 15 years. vWD is the most simple thing possible - if you dont breed dogs together that can produce a puppy that can suffer from it the problem will not exist. But when you are starting to say you need that dog for your breeding program because of other things they "could" carry onto the next litter then that is what makes it more complicated.
Breeders that only care about their own gain is what is making this all complicated.

If this is what you consider a reputable breeder I dont know what to think anymore.
 
#53 ·
My point proven: You feel just because only one dog suffers from this disease (and it is something they can suffer from) is ok, because its helping you create the ultimate working/confirmation dog. One day when we hopefully have more information on DCM and can totally avoid it like we can NOW with vWD I can guarantee you these people will still be around saying "well the gene pool is only so big, so if only one dog suffers from DCM out of this breeding that is ok"
That makes me SICK
The health of a dog should come before ANYTHING - Any breeder that does causes a dog to suffer from vWD to get the ultimate confirmation/working dog they want is doing it for their personal gain.
They CAN simply take longer to get what they want and not have to let ANY dog suffer because of their breeding practices, but because they dont want to wait longer and work harder its easier to just make maybe one affected dog and they will take the chance they might not become affected.....but if they do....oh well. And what about the person that ends up with the heartache of having to see that dog suffer you created? Do you not care at all???? Or does it make it ok because you accomplished what you wanted to with that litter....maybe.
There is NOTHING that separates breeding practices like that and a simple BYB. It might actually make the "respectable breeder"worse because they should have so much education on something that is so SIMPLE.
LINDAH - even though I only joined this forum not too long ago I have studied pedigrees, and health testing for over 15 years. vWD is the most simple thing possible - if you dont breed dogs together that can produce a puppy that can suffer from it the problem will not exist. But when you are starting to say you need that dog for your breeding program because of other things they "could" carry onto the next litter then that is what makes it more complicated.
Breeders that only care about their own gain is what is making this all complicated.

If this is what you consider a reputable breeder I dont know what to think anymore.
Bold Mine.

The dogs don't suffer from vWD, they typically live totally normal lives (yes, typically, because I DO acknowledge that vWD CAN cause issues). Dogs DO suffer from cancer, cardio, and CVI.

No breeder I know forces anyone to purchase a vWD affected puppy, and I stand by my statement that an ethical breeder should test all of the puppies in a litter that may produce vWD so that the buyer can make the decision before they complete the purchase. If all other things were right, I would purchase an affected puppy from a long lived pedigree.

You don't have to buy an affected puppy, and I would never judge anyone who decided to only buy a clear or carrier, but saying that its easy to never produce an affected is simply wrong.

I also find it pretty insulting that you insinuate that breeders don't care about the puppies they produce, or their owners. Most breeders absolutely care about the future of this breed, and THAT is what makes breeding decisions hard. The whole picture needs to be analyzed, not just one tiny piece (vWD in this case).
 
#51 ·
Charlie if you feel that strongly, maybe you should only focus on owning rescue dobes or another breed altogether.

All breeders have to make compromises and even if you went all in with the best possible match for your dog, there is guarantee that a puppy that you produce will not have some type of health issue. That is one of the main reasons why I will never be a breeder.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
#52 · (Edited)
Sigh....

Charlie, it's conformation, not confirmation! Tired if seeing you use the wrong term over and over. Maybe you should look up the definitions to clarify it for you.
 
#54 ·
But you support breeders who are breeding knowing that a dog could suffer from their breeding practices, you see nothing wrong with that Dobe_Mom?

This is the only breed I have owned in 30 years - I have a strong love for them. This in the end just goes back to what I said before about health testing being the number one thing someone should look for, I would go to any breeder who focuses strictly on health before their breeding practices that could cause a dog to be sick when they should be educated enough not to do that.

Any breeder that does that is a greeder as far as I am concerned- they might do it more "respectable" but they are still breeding for their own gain.
Sick....
 
#57 · (Edited)
You do realize that narrowing a gene pool even further than it already is can cause anomalies to show up don't you? That by reducing the size of the gene pool one could end up with even more genetic diseases.

It doesn't matter how long you've had dobermans if you haven't expanded your knowledge.You are acting like a troll imo. I'm not saying that to insult, just stating my opinion like you do yours.
 
#58 ·
I actually never said that I had done it, I am speaking hypothetically, but after my experience with affected dogs, yes, I would rather produce a dog that has vWD than one that will die from cardio. Unfortunately, at this time, there is no definitive test for cardio, and there probably won't be, so sometimes, for the overall betterment, "risky" choices may be made.

I, too, am done with this convo. I'm not, and never was, trying to change your mind...its obviously well made up.
 
#59 ·
I haven't SEEN Americans with unstable temperament. (someone else said that) I said that I've read breeding for a strict look has resulted in some negative behavior qualities in many american bloodlines. How true that is, I do not know, just what I've read as I've been researching the breed. I've also come across some American pics who do not have the muscular/wider boned heads/build when searching different breeders on the internet. Obviously they aren't all like that, as Linda's dog is beautiful. I am new to the breed, and am just trying to do my research and educate myself before purchasing a poorly bred dog that will be sickly or have behavior problems. So I welcome any info on QUALITY breeders so that I do not end up with an ill bred pup.
 
#60 ·
Ok, so this is getting really out of hand. My wife is the one that started this by simply asking "Please Help Me find a REPUTABLE Euro Breeder!" We understand all the health issues that Dobermans can have and what to watch out for, and we sincerely appreciate everyone's opinions and concerns. BUT, we have been researching for weeks and we are still in the dark. With that said, "Please Help Me find a REPUTABLE Euro Breeder!". Thank you all for your help.
 
#63 ·
I gave a couple of suggestions before the thread went crazy. Sorry about that...

Delmira and Kansa breed Euro x American often, but my true suggestion is not to pigeon hole yourself too much into a certain type. Find a breeder that you click with, who's dogs you like the look of, and who does the necessary health testing, and go from there. The breeder/ buyer relationship is really important; they will pretty much become family :)

Check the UDC and DPCA breeder referrals, if you haven't already, and good luck!
 
#68 ·
Well do you have one to recommend?

Part of this is because there are not reputable breeders breeding 100% Euro show line dogs here. Fact is there are not enough venues to successfully show and title Euro show lines here. There are, however, breeders crossing Euro show lines with working lines and one or two breeders occasionally using Euro show line dogs in their otherwise American show line breeding program. This means a compromise will almost certainly have to be made by the buyer.

Watch out for all of the Euro greeders! There are Dozens.
 
#67 ·
From our Etiquette Statement Rule 1) "Each member will treat other members with respect, be tactful, and be courteous, at all times....We encourage good discussions, because this is the way we learn and no one will do the same thing as other do. We want members to respond with honest straight-forward opinions, but members needs to refrain from injecting their snarky, degrading personal feelings that adds no value to a post, but causes disruption. If you cannot do this, it will be best that you do not respond to the post at all."

At times the tone in some of the posts in this thread have come very close to the kind of disrespectful language which is not acceptable on this forum. This is a warning to all who have posted here to remember that one of forum's main goals is civil discourse which will lead to the sharing of knowledge of the Doberman breed. Please keep your posts civil and courteous, folks.
 
#69 · (Edited)
And I thought I suggested Kansa in Kansas in this thread and Masaya, Swift Run in KY (working breeders) in the other thread with Parker's picture. Parker's breeder is in Aledo right out of Ft Worth. Prime came from Rhapsody in Austin. Believe that's were they are.

Just remember, any Doberman, no matter where they come from, have the same health problems. Euros have a slightly higher cardio risk.

There is Adlercrest in CA. They breed more showline euro dobermans, I believe.

http://www.adlercrest-dobermanns.com/

Incredible Dobes in CA. http://www.incredibledobermans.com/about.html working

And another working breeder I can't remember right now in Ca.
 
#71 ·
And I thought I suggested Kansa in Kansas in this thread and Masaya, Swift Run in KY (working breeders) in the other thread with Parker's picture. Parker's breeder is in Aledo right out of Ft Worth. Prime came from Rhapsody in Austin. Believe that's were they are.

Just remember, any Doberman, no matter where they come from, have the same health problems. Euros have a slightly higher cardio risk.

There is Adlercrest in CA. They breed more showline euro dobermans, I believe.
Prime is Matrix/ Heartfelt in Houston. They often co-breed with Touchstone.
 
#72 ·
Now Charlie, that's not being very helpful to the OP.
 
#80 ·
(quote) I also agree with this forum being flooded with people who have some grudge on Euro dogs,(/quote)

There is no grudge as you so obviously misunderstand. Right now the Euro craze is out of control as many jump on the Euro bandwagon with NO KNOWLEDGE of the breed, temperament, health etc. Then you the new owner gets into trouble with these dogs they disappear and are not there to stand behind their puppies or to help the new owner because they have NEVER trained or titled a dog in their lives.

As far as guaranteeing a healthy puppy - then buy a stuffed toy. There is no way to guarantee health in humans or animals. Find a breeder who is honest above all and willingly to discuss any of your concerns with you. You have a better chance if you search breeders on the DPCA.org breeder referral site or the uniteddobermanclub.com breeder directory. They for the most part title and test. Just because you don't like a breeder does not mean that someone else might not find them the best.

Whether you import (big shot in the dark) or you stay with American there are good temperaments on both sides and bad temperaments on both sides. I have seen some real crazy out of control Euro dogs and I have seen the same in some American dogs. GUESS what I have seen outstanding temperaments out of both also. These are dogs at shows and trials working - not running around some BYB yard.
 
#84 ·
Guess you met some pretty crappy breeders then - I got into the European lines about 10 years or so ago and have been since then. It is possible for someone to have a different opinion than an American show breeder.

Of course nobody can guarantee anything in a breed- are you saying as a breeder no breeder should put guarantees in their contracts? Just because someone did not care to title a dog does not mean they dont train.

Importing is not a big shot in the dark if you take the time to research peoples experience - it could be a shot in the dark dealing with an American breeder too.
 
#82 ·
Just as an aside, the link LindaH posted shows what I consider to be "champion bloodlines". In a four generation pedigree, there are three, count 'em, three non-champion dogs. An of those three, one has a CDX, and one is a CD WAC. A far cry from the typical BYB "champion bloodlines" pedigree of one or two champions three or four generations back.
 
#83 · (Edited)
Yeah, if you take Promise's Old Drum v Olympia and put him where Trotyl De Black Shadow is you have Parker's pedigree save his sire, Sunburg's Riverwalk v Promise. You would put him in Trotyl's place.

Walker's picture is here: http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=16541
Parker's personality reminds me so much of Walker. I really really liked him.

Does any of that make sense to anyone but me? :)
 
#88 ·
No one trying to explain the reasoning to not further limit the gene pool is stupid.
You just seem to be inclined to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Being fixated on one simple fact without being educated enough in the matter.
Open of ones mind just a little and try and understand the whys. Standing on a tiny little soap box yelling the world is ending over the occasional breeding of an affected.... Waste of oxygen, and a clear indicator of inexperience, misinformation, and possibly just plain ignorance.
 
#89 · (Edited)
No use wasting our fingertips.

Clearly, he doesn't understand genetics in real life. What do you expect from someone who supports euro byb/greeders? He's drank their kool aid.

He needs to stop disrupting this thread and talk to a geneticist.

I keep remembering a Far Side joke with the Holstein cow laying on the couch telling his psychiatrist, "Maybe it's not me, yknow? Maybe it's the rest of the herd that's gone insane." LOL

Best I could do... https://www.etsy.com/listing/176585817/sale-50-off-far-side-gary-larson-mug
 
#92 ·
And again its not about the buyers choice or not - its about that one dog that has to suffer because someone wants to breed two dogs together. I get what your saying MaryandDobes but I just happen to not agree with it.

As for LindaH - yes if you consider the person I purchased from a euro greeder that is fine by me everyday, your "facts" on her are completely wrong but your so stuck on your titles I doubt you look into anything else about someone after you see they dont care about that- NOT even going to start with that discussion again - she does not breed does that she knows have a chance of having a disease like that. I have spoken to people who have had vWD affected dogs and the dogs actually had problems - its not a good thing to have to worry everytime your dog gets a cut or they have random nose bleeds - its a scary thing. Yes people might have the option of buying a dog like that from a breeder that tells them it can happen but I am talking about the poor dog that is suffering from it. Sorry if the gene pool is limited but there should be no reason why any dog suffered because of something that someone thinks is "worth it"
And believe me -Im beating my head against the wall trying to explain my point as well.
 
#94 ·
Sorry if the gene pool is limited but there should be no reason why any dog suffered because of something that someone thinks is "worth it" ...
What you don't seem to understand about genetics is that the smaller the gene pool gets, the more and more genetic diseases crop up, including things like vWd and much, much worse, like DCM. You need a large, diverse gene pool in order to have a healthy breed. By limiting the gene pool even more than it already is (and Dobermans already have a fairly small gene pool) you are dooming the breed to worsening health. I don't think you understand genetics well enough to know what you are suggesting.
 
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