Please Help Me find a REPUTABLE Euro Breeder! - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #26 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:09 AM
jdd
Alpha
 
jdd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,149
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Dogs Name: Guilty, Hemi, Paisley,Sofia, Kobe, Maxwell, Piper
Titles: Ch, Ch, Ch
Dogs Age: 5 yrs, 2 yrs, 10 mon., 12 weeks, 12 yrs, who knows, 1 yr
Gallery Pics: 11
Visit jdd's Gallery
Thanks: 959
Thanked 10,727 Times in 2,802 Posts
Images: 11
                     
When DCM negative dogs have cardio or have already died of cardio, what does it matter what the DNA test results are??
Not that many years ago there was no DNA test for vwd. No one knew what any dogs were. I never knew of a dog who bled to death. Type 1 vwd which is what dobermans have is the mildest type. There are so many affected dobermans out there and I still have never personally known one who bled to death because it was affected. There are many things that can cause a bleeding episode. I have had several affected bitches come to my stud dogs over the years. Every one lived into their teens and never had bleeding episodes. It can happen but there are so many other worse things that "can happen".
I'd sure rather have an affected dog than a euro dog who's entire pedigree has had NO health testing at all.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

jdd is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to jdd For This Useful Post:
AuraDobe (05-29-2014), Dobiewankanobi (08-14-2014), LindaH (05-29-2014), Q734 (05-30-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014)
Advertisement
 
post #27 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:17 AM
Alpha
 
Dobe_Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,131
Location: New England
Dogs Name: Jossie, Jessie, Kayla, Mya, Prophet
Titles: GCH, CH, CGC, WAC, CA, CAA
Dogs Age: 9, 6, 3, 2, 18 months
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit Dobe_Mom's Gallery
Thanks: 6,047
Thanked 8,035 Times in 1,804 Posts
Images: 2
                     
This is where we have different viewpoints Patty, I dont agree with the strategy of breeding to avoid DCM based only on the results of a single DCM gene marker. Until we have a full screen available for all the DCM genes, I think it is dangerous to say we will exclude dogs that are homozygous or heterozygous. I have owned a dobe with DCM in the past. It is a devastating disease.

Some breeders justify breeding VWD affected dogs and carrier to carrier, with the theory that excluding those dogs limits the gene pool for DCM. At this time, that is only a theory and there are no facts to back up that strategy, as far as I know.

As a puppy buyer, I dont ever want to be in a situation where we racing to the e-vet with a dog bleeding to death from a small accidental injury in my arms due to being clinically VWD affected; I say this because I have lived through it. That is why I personally would avoid purchasing a VWD affected puppy, when I can just as readily locate a well bred puppy that is carrier or clear.


Last edited by Dobe_Mom; 05-29-2014 at 11:27 AM.
Dobe_Mom is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dobe_Mom For This Useful Post:
alan j. (05-29-2014), greenkouki (05-30-2014), MeadowCat (05-29-2014), pattym (05-29-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), VZ-Doberman (05-29-2014)
post #28 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
Big Pup
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Daphne
Titles: "Queen B"
Dogs Age: 7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit alynn824's Gallery
Thanks: 31
Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts
 
Linda, Your dog is beautiful! He looks like he's built like a Euro! I'm assuming he's American?!? I've seen a lot of Americans who do not have that bone structure! I certainly do not want a beast, but I like the muscular/thicker bone structure!
alynn824 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to alynn824 For This Useful Post:
LindaH (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014)
Advertisement
 
post #29 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,016
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 38,707
Thanked 30,773 Times in 10,259 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by alynn824 View Post
Linda, Your dog is beautiful! He looks like he's built like a Euro! I'm assuming he's American?!? I've seen a lot of Americans who do not have that bone structure! I certainly do not want a beast, but I like the muscular/thicker bone structure!
You've probably seen either a) poorly bred dogs with overall poor quality; b) out of shape, poorly conditioned dogs; c) young, immature dogs who haven't gotten their full size and musculature; or d) a combination of the above.


~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH S-ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~~Requiescat In Pace~~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!” Julie Flanery
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Dobe_Mom (05-29-2014), falnfenix (05-29-2014), LindaH (05-29-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), ZeldaRules (05-30-2014)
post #30 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:30 PM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,133 Times in 9,828 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by alynn824 View Post
Linda, Your dog is beautiful! He looks like he's built like a Euro! I'm assuming he's American?!? I've seen a lot of Americans who do not have that bone structure! I certainly do not want a beast, but I like the muscular/thicker bone structure!
Thank you. I'll take all the compliments I can get on Parker. But seriously, there's a lot of members on here whose pet dogs from good show breeders look just as good.

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
Dobe_Mom (05-29-2014), falnfenix (05-29-2014), MeadowCat (05-29-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014)
post #31 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 01:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaH View Post
I think worrying about the 58% of euro dobermans that will come down with DCM is more important than the few affected dobermans that have complications and die.

Prevalence of dilated cardiomyopathy in - PubMed Mobile

And

dilated cardiomyopathy doberman

Complaining about lack of health testing in American show line dobermans is almost amusing considering the FEW euro breeders that do complete health testing overseas where one buys their breeding stock or looks forstud service.

You know American breedes hold the gold standard for health testing in the world.

My point was not that we should focus on one test as opposed to another- its that we are lucky enough to have the vWD tests and make sure not one doberman needs to go through it- why not take advantage about that.
I would make a bet even if we had enough studies on DCM to avoid it people would still breed dogs that have more of a chance of being affected by that disease too just because they want a certain dog to come out of the breeding.
Thats basically the same thing that happens with a reputable breeder breeding dogs that could possibly be affected with vWD- there is no reason for that ever.

I can not for the life of me figure out why breeders would not just breed so they would never have an affected puppy
charlie845 is offline  
post #32 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 03:18 PM
formerly eventermal
 
AuraDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,498
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Vixie (papillon), Perrin, Guilty, Abra
Titles: Perrin: CH CA DJ CGC WAC ; Guilty: CH CA CGC WAC; Abra: workin' on it!; Vixie: NA NAJ
Dogs Age: V 3/21/05, P 7/17/09, G 1/17/11, A 1/21/14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit AuraDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 5,561
Thanked 7,504 Times in 2,320 Posts
                     
Send a message via AIM to AuraDobe
I have a whole one litter under by belt, but I can tell you that I agonized over picking a stud dog. I found breeding to be a balancing act- there is no perfect Doberman and sometimes you have to give a little to get what you ultimately want/need. There are not all that many vWD clear males out there, and even fewer without close up cardio. If I was forced to choose between a vWD carrier vs clear, but the clear dog had cardio closer up, I would rather risk the vWD, personally. IMO, its the lesser of the Doberman health evils.

That being said, Kansa does a lot of Euro x American crossing and Delmira seems to like that type, too. Good luck on your search!


CH Treu's Star Witness v Touchstone CA CGC WAC Guilty
Aura's Zatanna Abra AKC ptd.
"Vixie" (Papillon) NA NAJ

Waiting at the Bridge
CH O's Godiva Signature CA DJ CGC WAC Perrin
AuraDobe is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to AuraDobe For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), Dobe_Mom (05-29-2014), Feverhaus (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-29-2014), MeadowCat (05-29-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), ShelianDobe (06-03-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014), Sizzledog (05-29-2014), VZ-Doberman (05-29-2014)
post #33 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 03:23 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraDobe View Post
I have a whole one litter under by belt, but I can tell you that I agonized over picking a stud dog. I found breeding to be a balancing act- there is no perfect Doberman and sometimes you have to give a little to get what you ultimately want/need. There are not all that many vWD clear males out there, and even fewer without close up cardio. If I was forced to choose between a vWD carrier vs clear, but the clear dog had cardio closer up, I would rather risk the vWD, personally. IMO, its the lesser of the Doberman health evils.

That being said, Kansa does a lot of Euro x American crossing and Delmira seems to like that type, too. Good luck on your search!
So there you have it.....its better to risk something you know the dog COULD be affected with for sure (vWD) that choose a different dog that would not give any puppy a chance of having that problem - thats nice- if thats not a greeder I dont know what is!
DCM is something TOTALLY different! there is not enough information on it to not have any worry about having it in your lines. vWD on the other hand there is.
So you would risk a dog that has a genetic problem that is EASY to avoid just so you might have one puppy you want......thats nice
charlie845 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to charlie845 For This Useful Post:
pattym (05-29-2014)
post #34 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 03:39 PM
formerly eventermal
 
AuraDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,498
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Vixie (papillon), Perrin, Guilty, Abra
Titles: Perrin: CH CA DJ CGC WAC ; Guilty: CH CA CGC WAC; Abra: workin' on it!; Vixie: NA NAJ
Dogs Age: V 3/21/05, P 7/17/09, G 1/17/11, A 1/21/14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit AuraDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 5,561
Thanked 7,504 Times in 2,320 Posts
                     
Send a message via AIM to AuraDobe
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
So there you have it.....its better to risk something you know the dog COULD be affected with for sure (vWD) that choose a different dog that would not give any puppy a chance of having that problem - thats nice- if thats not a greeder I dont know what is!

DCM is something TOTALLY different! there is not enough information on it to not have any worry about having it in your lines. vWD on the other hand there is.

So you would risk a dog that has a genetic problem that is EASY to avoid just so you might have one puppy you want......thats nice


Yes, I would rather produce an affected puppy that is unlikely to ever have an issue, than to possibly produce a ticking cardio time bomb. vWD rarely kills the dogs that are affected by it, but cardio is 100% fatal.

Of course in a perfect world, we would have neither, but this works isn't perfect.

As far as you calling me a byb, that's fine. My peers and puppy owners can judge for themselves.

Again OP, good luck. I hope you find your perfect puppy.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


CH Treu's Star Witness v Touchstone CA CGC WAC Guilty
Aura's Zatanna Abra AKC ptd.
"Vixie" (Papillon) NA NAJ

Waiting at the Bridge
CH O's Godiva Signature CA DJ CGC WAC Perrin
AuraDobe is offline  
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to AuraDobe For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), Dobe_Mom (05-29-2014), falnfenix (05-29-2014), hjgrl (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-29-2014), maggiemay (05-29-2014), MeadowCat (05-29-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014), Sizzledog (05-29-2014), VZ-Doberman (05-29-2014), ZeldaRules (05-30-2014)
post #35 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:12 PM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,133 Times in 9,828 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
So there you have it.....its better to risk something you know the dog COULD be affected with for sure (vWD) that choose a different dog that would not give any puppy a chance of having that problem - thats nice- if thats not a greeder I dont know what is!
DCM is something TOTALLY different! there is not enough information on it to not have any worry about having it in your lines. vWD on the other hand there is.
So you would risk a dog that has a genetic problem that is EASY to avoid just so you might have one puppy you want......thats nice
Are you serious??? Because if you are you're just showing your total lack of understanding of vWD and cardio. Actually what you are saying and emphasising is NOT CORRECT.

How many times does someone that knows what the hell they are talking about have to explain that having a dog test DNA affected DOES NOT mean they will ever have a problem. You're trying to say if a dog tests affected it's going to die. Now you are just flat out lying to try to make something that's not true, true! No one is as thick as you are apparently trying to be.

To try to teach people that vWD is on the exact same level, no even higher importance than cardio is almost criminal. This is what a byb with a cardio problem would try to spin to potential customers.

How about your European testing for VWD? I guess if the dog isn't clear then best not even put the results out there to be seen, huh? Like maybe if the result isn't there, it doesn't exist. Maybe you should carry your education overseas.

How many of these five studs have vWD testing even listed? You're a joke, Charlie, nothing but a ridiculous joke.

Males - BETELGES DOBERMANS

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), CalamitysHuckleberry (05-30-2014), Feverhaus (05-30-2014), GingerGunlock (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-30-2014), maggiemay (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014), VZ-Doberman (05-29-2014)
post #36 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 07:30 PM
Alpha
 
Sizzledog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,001
Location: Central IA
Dogs Name: Kaylee, Poison, Stark

Gallery Pics: 52
Visit Sizzledog's Gallery
Thanks: 483
Thanked 12,432 Times in 1,963 Posts
Images: 52
                     
I know very few genetically affected (vWD) Dobermans that are actually clinically affected. vWD seems to be what some mediocre breeders focus on the most though, since it's easy and cheap to test and if you do clear x clear, no testing is needed. Breeding to minimize the risk of DCM requires a few more brain cells.

If I had to choose between a dog genetically affected with vWD and a dog at high risk of early-onset DCM... I would choose the vWD dog EVERY time.

BIMBS MBAIMBS U-CH Kaylee BN RN CAX TT CGC TDI
MBIMBS U-CH Poison AX AXJ CAA
CH Aura's Iron Man CAA, a.k.a Stark
Sizzledog is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Sizzledog For This Useful Post:
AuraDobe (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-29-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), prairiefire (05-31-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-29-2014), ZeldaRules (05-30-2014)
post #37 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
Big Pup
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Daphne
Titles: "Queen B"
Dogs Age: 7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit alynn824's Gallery
Thanks: 31
Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts
 
Thanks for all the info everyone!!!!
alynn824 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to alynn824 For This Useful Post:
LindaH (05-29-2014), RedFawnRising (05-29-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014)
post #38 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 10:37 PM
Holier Than Now
 
RedFawnRising's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,475
Dogs Name: Whisper; George; Mina, Nashua, Arcus
Titles: George-Working Service Dog
Dogs Age: 9 yr, 5 yr, 4 yr, 2 yr, 1.5 yr
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit RedFawnRising's Gallery
Thanks: 72,151
Thanked 77,341 Times in 18,231 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraDobe View Post
Yes, I would rather produce an affected puppy that is unlikely to ever have an issue, than to possibly produce a ticking cardio time bomb. vWD rarely kills the dogs that are affected by it, but cardio is 100% fatal.

Of course in a perfect world, we would have neither, but this works isn't perfect.

As far as you calling me a byb, that's fine. My peers and puppy owners can judge for themselves.

Again OP, good luck. I hope you find your perfect puppy.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Handled with grace and restraint, brava.

I seriously cannot deal sometimes, with the level of ignorance about science, and dog care and just...it takes endless patience and knowing when to walk away from a lost cause, I suppose.




My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today~Richard Adams


"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
―Cyril Connolly
RedFawnRising is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to RedFawnRising For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), AuraDobe (05-30-2014), MeadowCat (05-30-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014)
post #39 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 02:09 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
I NEVER said if the dog is affected it is going to die- I said it COULD. Is that not true?
I also said that this problem can be avoided completely- is that not also true?

I dont know where the whole DCM thing even came into conversation.

I SIMPLY said that vWD can be totally avoided and there should be NO reason why ANY dog has to suffer from it. Even if its a small % - if your dog was in that small % would you then be ok with it anymore????
charlie845 is offline  
post #40 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 02:16 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaH View Post
Are you serious??? Because if you are you're just showing your total lack of understanding of vWD and cardio. Actually what you are saying and emphasising is NOT CORRECT.

How many times does someone that knows what the hell they are talking about have to explain that having a dog test DNA affected DOES NOT mean they will ever have a problem. You're trying to say if a dog tests affected it's going to die. Now you are just flat out lying to try to make something that's not true, true! No one is as thick as you are apparently trying to be.

To try to teach people that vWD is on the exact same level, no even higher importance than cardio is almost criminal. This is what a byb with a cardio problem would try to spin to potential customers.

How about your European testing for VWD? I guess if the dog isn't clear then best not even put the results out there to be seen, huh? Like maybe if the result isn't there, it doesn't exist. Maybe you should carry your education overseas.

How many of these five studs have vWD testing even listed? You're a joke, Charlie, nothing but a ridiculous joke.

Males - BETELGES DOBERMANS



LOL - you realize your whole statement makes no sense - that is not a kennel that I purchased my dog from, thats just like pulling any random website out of nowhere and asking me what I think of the information on there!

Im not trying to spin anything - I just simply said for anyone to be ok with a dog even possibly being ok with having vWD makes no sense. Cardio has NOTHING to do with what I was stating.

And did you happen to contact that breeder to see if the tests were done? If Im not mistaken dont so many reputable breeders not even have time for a website let alone keep one up to date? I know I have seen that a number of times on this forum. But I guess that only works when someone is looking into a buddy of yours as a breeder for you to say - oh just call them and ask for the testing info if its not on their site.
charlie845 is offline  
post #41 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 02:43 AM
_______
 
Q734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,102

Gallery Pics: 26
Visit Q734's Gallery
Thanks: 11,662
Thanked 7,502 Times in 3,253 Posts
Images: 26
                     
You people(global) who keep screaming to remove ALL VWD "affected" from the gene pool need to get a clue!!!!

There have been TOO MANY GREATLY LONG LIVED DOGS "VWD "AFFECTED". See above^^^!

You do NOT KNOW WHAT ELSE IS "SITTING" ON THAT "AFFECTED" GENE!!! ---To be talking about removing it because you(global) drew the short straw on a particular dog is helping the breed overall & polluting the minds of new people who are just now investigating & reading your slanted misguided diatribes.

Same thing goes for this Meurs test, gawd love her, important research test BUT DCM NEGATIVE DOGS ARE DROPPING DEAD AT YOUNG AGES TOO!

No this isn't a healthy breed, but to condemn breeders who pair up an affected to a clear, or carrier that is minding longevity, type & temperament is propaganda at its worst and if the affected haters & dcm NEG lovers got their way this breed would have a gene pool the size of a DROP OF WATER and NONE of what they hope to happen with this breed will happen- EVER!!!

JUST STOP IT!

SMH

-^-^-^----_^-^-^---^-^-^-^-/\-^->
Help the doberman by doing your homework BEFORE buying!


Search a Dam or Sires health certifications

Reading Pedigrees: A Lost Art?

The Pox of Popular Sires

DOBEQUEST <-incomplete but worthwhile

DPCA Longevity List of stored Sires
Puppies on Ice: Collected sires for future use
-^-^-^-^---^-^-^-^----^---^--------/\_____

Last edited by Q734; 05-30-2014 at 02:46 AM.
Q734 is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Q734 For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), AuraDobe (05-30-2014), falnfenix (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-31-2014), MeadowCat (05-30-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014)
post #42 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 04:12 AM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,133 Times in 9,828 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
I NEVER said if the dog is affected it is going to die- I said it COULD. Is that not true?
I also said that this problem can be avoided completely- is that not also true?

I dont know where the whole DCM thing even came into conversation.

I SIMPLY said that vWD can be totally avoided and there should be NO reason why ANY dog has to suffer from it. Even if its a small % - if your dog was in that small % would you then be ok with it anymore????
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
LOL - you realize your whole statement makes no sense - that is not a kennel that I purchased my dog from, thats just like pulling any random website out of nowhere and asking me what I think of the information on there!

Im not trying to spin anything - I just simply said for anyone to be ok with a dog even possibly being ok with having vWD makes no sense. Cardio has NOTHING to do with what I was stating.

And did you happen to contact that breeder to see if the tests were done? If Im not mistaken dont so many reputable breeders not even have time for a website let alone keep one up to date? I know I have seen that a number of times on this forum. But I guess that only works when someone is looking into a buddy of yours as a breeder for you to say - oh just call them and ask for the testing info if its not on their site.


For me:

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

Mark Twain

For you:

A little learning is a dangerous thing.
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope
,*An Essay on Criticism

End of discussion

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), Feverhaus (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-31-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), Rosemary (05-30-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014)
post #43 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 06:16 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,471
Location: TX
Dogs Name: Zelda(siberian husky), Optimus Prime(doberman)
Titles: CGC, Certified Therapy Dog
Dogs Age: 7, 4
Gallery Pics: 12
Visit ZeldaRules's Gallery
Thanks: 9,240
Thanked 21,081 Times in 5,362 Posts
Images: 12
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by alynn824 View Post
Linda, Your dog is beautiful! He looks like he's built like a Euro! I'm assuming he's American?!? I've seen a lot of Americans who do not have that bone structure! I certainly do not want a beast, but I like the muscular/thicker bone structure!
Where have you seen all these american lined dobes with fine bone and unstable temperament? That has not been my experience with well bred, standard ASLs.

You can check my boy out at http://www.facebook.com/dobermanprime. He is bomb proof in public and in all environments, situations, and with people and other animals.
ZeldaRules is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ZeldaRules For This Useful Post:
Q734 (05-30-2014)
post #44 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:19 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
I would love to see what you would say if you lost your vWD affected dog because of someones breeding decisions. Unbelievable.....


I thought this was a site that actually CARED about dobermans and their health
charlie845 is offline  
post #45 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:27 AM
Alpha
 
Dobe_Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,131
Location: New England
Dogs Name: Jossie, Jessie, Kayla, Mya, Prophet
Titles: GCH, CH, CGC, WAC, CA, CAA
Dogs Age: 9, 6, 3, 2, 18 months
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit Dobe_Mom's Gallery
Thanks: 6,047
Thanked 8,035 Times in 1,804 Posts
Images: 2
                     
I have lost a dog to cardio due to someone's breeding decisions. Far too many have, way more that VwD. VwD clinically affected dogs can be managed, it's not effortless, but doable. Cardio is a battle that you always lose.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Dobe_Mom is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Dobe_Mom For This Useful Post:
AuraDobe (05-30-2014), falnfenix (05-30-2014), GingerGunlock (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-31-2014), JobeyV (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-30-2014), MeadowCat (05-30-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014), Sizzledog (05-30-2014)
post #46 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:30 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobe_Mom View Post
I have lost a dog to cardio due to someone's breeding decisions. Far too many have, way more that VwD. VwD clinically affected dogs can be managed, it's not effortless, but doable. Cardio is a battle that you always lose.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Im not speaking about cardio!!!!
All that I am saying is that its horrible that people think its ok to breed any dogs that are vWD affected at all- there is a chance they can suffer from it so WHY breed them. That is all Im saying and everyone on here seems to think its ok!
charlie845 is offline  
post #47 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:55 AM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,133 Times in 9,828 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
Im not speaking about cardio!!!!
All that I am saying is that its horrible that people think its ok to breed any dogs that are vWD affected at all- there is a chance they can suffer from it so WHY breed them. That is all Im saying and everyone on here seems to think its ok!
And what we are ALL saying is that you don't know enough to know what you don't know. It is not as simple as you are trying to make it. It's simple to you because you don't really understand the whole picture, even tho you think you do.

Do you honestly think you are the only one to think of vWD in this way? Many newcomers come on the forum or buy their FIRST doberman and learn about vWD and think just as you do. They have had their first Doberman a while and all of a sudden they think they're experts on all things Doberman. They think they know more than someone who has been in the breed for decades...half a century even.

Charlie, you're just not as smart as you think you are and.vWD is not as simple as you say it is and that's not going to change, no matter how many times you say it.

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html

Last edited by LindaH; 05-30-2014 at 08:58 AM.
LindaH is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), hjgrl (05-31-2014), Q734 (05-30-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014), ZeldaRules (05-31-2014)
post #48 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:58 AM
Alpha
 
Dobe_Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,131
Location: New England
Dogs Name: Jossie, Jessie, Kayla, Mya, Prophet
Titles: GCH, CH, CGC, WAC, CA, CAA
Dogs Age: 9, 6, 3, 2, 18 months
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit Dobe_Mom's Gallery
Thanks: 6,047
Thanked 8,035 Times in 1,804 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Please Help Me find a REPUTABLE Euro Breeder!

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie845 View Post
Im not speaking about cardio!!!!

All that I am saying is that its horrible that people think its ok to breed any dogs that are vWD affected at all- there is a chance they can suffer from it so WHY breed them. That is all Im saying and everyone on here seems to think its ok!

Having lived with both, I can personally tell you that my clinically affected VwD dog never suffered. She was happy and oblivious to it her entire life. The onus was on us to manage it. My cardio dog did know she was ill and we had to make a decision to end her suffering as her coughing progressed.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Dobe_Mom is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dobe_Mom For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (05-30-2014), JobeyV (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-30-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), Q734 (05-30-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014)
post #49 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:59 AM
formerly eventermal
 
AuraDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,498
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Vixie (papillon), Perrin, Guilty, Abra
Titles: Perrin: CH CA DJ CGC WAC ; Guilty: CH CA CGC WAC; Abra: workin' on it!; Vixie: NA NAJ
Dogs Age: V 3/21/05, P 7/17/09, G 1/17/11, A 1/21/14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit AuraDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 5,561
Thanked 7,504 Times in 2,320 Posts
                     
Send a message via AIM to AuraDobe
This breed and cardio are synonymous. We are trying to tell you that its NOT as easy as you seem to think, and that eliminating carrier x carrier and affected breedings will do more harm than good, and we would likely see more deaths from cardio, cancer, cvi, and who knows what.

One of the Doberman rescuers in my area just posted that out of 300 dogs that they have spayed and neutered so far, only one had any kind of bleeding issue - and he didn't die.

We already have a small gene pool, and we shouldn't be shrinking it further by spaying and neutering all the vWD affected and carrier dogs.

I have purchased two vWD affected dogs, and I knew that one of them was affected before I purchased her. Ethical breeders test their puppies before placement if there is a chance they will be affected so that the buyer can make the decision to purchase, or not.


CH Treu's Star Witness v Touchstone CA CGC WAC Guilty
Aura's Zatanna Abra AKC ptd.
"Vixie" (Papillon) NA NAJ

Waiting at the Bridge
CH O's Godiva Signature CA DJ CGC WAC Perrin
AuraDobe is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to AuraDobe For This Useful Post:
Adara (05-30-2014), Dobe_Mom (05-30-2014), GingerGunlock (05-30-2014), LindaH (05-30-2014), MeadowCat (05-30-2014), Nynaeve (05-31-2014), Q734 (05-30-2014), RedFawnRising (05-30-2014), Scarred Gardener (05-31-2014), SieYa (05-30-2014), Sizzledog (05-30-2014), ZeldaRules (05-31-2014)
post #50 of 100 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 09:39 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 269
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit charlie845's Gallery
Thanks: 135
Thanked 101 Times in 71 Posts
       
My point proven: You feel just because only one dog suffers from this disease (and it is something they can suffer from) is ok, because its helping you create the ultimate working/confirmation dog. One day when we hopefully have more information on DCM and can totally avoid it like we can NOW with vWD I can guarantee you these people will still be around saying "well the gene pool is only so big, so if only one dog suffers from DCM out of this breeding that is ok"
That makes me SICK
The health of a dog should come before ANYTHING - Any breeder that does causes a dog to suffer from vWD to get the ultimate confirmation/working dog they want is doing it for their personal gain.
They CAN simply take longer to get what they want and not have to let ANY dog suffer because of their breeding practices, but because they dont want to wait longer and work harder its easier to just make maybe one affected dog and they will take the chance they might not become affected.....but if they do....oh well. And what about the person that ends up with the heartache of having to see that dog suffer you created? Do you not care at all???? Or does it make it ok because you accomplished what you wanted to with that litter....maybe.
There is NOTHING that separates breeding practices like that and a simple BYB. It might actually make the "respectable breeder"worse because they should have so much education on something that is so SIMPLE.
LINDAH - even though I only joined this forum not too long ago I have studied pedigrees, and health testing for over 15 years. vWD is the most simple thing possible - if you dont breed dogs together that can produce a puppy that can suffer from it the problem will not exist. But when you are starting to say you need that dog for your breeding program because of other things they "could" carry onto the next litter then that is what makes it more complicated.
Breeders that only care about their own gain is what is making this all complicated.

If this is what you consider a reputable breeder I dont know what to think anymore.
charlie845 is offline  
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome