How to become reputable breeder - Page 5 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #101 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 02:14 PM
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You don't have a clue what u are talking about. How many shelters or rescues have u been to? Little dogs don't go to rescue? I own Chihuahuas. I know better.
People that breed mutts are making more puppies who will end up in rescue. No matter what you say, YOU BRED MUTTS and made money doing it. There are plenty of mutts out there. There will NEVER be a good reason to make more.

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post #102 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 02:20 PM
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How to become reputable breeder

You are not answering the questions. Based on your website, I would agree that you have misrepresented yourself here. You keep coming up with excuses and not coming clean about your actions.

I see plenty of smaller dogs in rescues in my area, with lots of behavioral and health issues. Look on craigslist, where bybs of small breeds are a dime a dozen.

You called people here stupid, but what I see is that someone here was very smart and caught on to you.


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post #103 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mMyra View Post
All the advice I hear you say is "the dogs problem is medical and hire a trainer." Do you think you are really helping anyone??
Actually, yes, for a couple of reasons:

- It's extremely difficult to evaluate a dog over the Internet. All you have to work with are the owner's descriptions of the problem, and not all people read dogs accurately. That makes it even harder to tell what's going on with a particular dog. A trainer needs to see the dog in person to evaluate him/her and work with the dog and owners. Forum posts are not a good substitute for a hands-on meeting with a trainer. You can give advice over the Internet, but if someone's reading the dog wrong, or there's other issues going on that were not mentioned in the post, that advice might not be accurate.

- Vets are recommended because sudden behavior changes can be the result of health problems. Dobes in particular are very stoic and are good at hiding things from their people. This is also a breed that is prone to health problems. It's always best to medically rule out issues first. Dog's pissing on the floor? Sure, it might be a training problem, but if it's an adult dog, it could also be a UTI, something a vet can rule out in about five minutes.

And the plain fact of the matter is that a lot of people aren't aware of health issues, or the necessity of having someone evaluate your dog in person. The Internet is a good place to start for advice and tips, but if there's a serious problem going on with a dog, it's better to have a professional see the dog in person. It's sort of like trying to diagnose human medical problems over the internet- a forum isn't going to be a substitute for going to an actual doc.
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post #104 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 03:25 PM
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OK, you win, because there are bad people out there then everyone who doesn't fit into your cookie cutter mold is bad. I won't upset you any further. Go on and help new owners
with their problems.
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post #105 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by I'mMyra View Post
I give up, there is no cure for stupid. You don't even know me. You don't know anything about me. You made up all that nonsense about me and you feed off each other like a pack of crazed dogs. I don't have to prove anything to you. I'll put my home and dogs up against any of you any time. At least I don't keep dogs locked in cages 10 hours a day and give advice on how to keep them from eating their bedding or breaking their teeth trying to get out-- SHAMEFUL!! All the advice I hear you say is "the dogs problem is medical and hire a trainer." Do you think you are really helping anyone?? There is a big world out there if you haven't noticed and there are many good people trying to help dogs other than yourselves. Oh by the way, next time you go to the local shelter see how many small dogs there are up for adoption. None. There are all Bullies, Shepard mixes, Rott Mixes and yes, Doberman mixes.
I see quite a few small dogs that come in our doors at the shelter.....mostly shihpoo/maltipoo/whatever hairy little dog mixed. Usually completely matted because the people that bought them from whatever BYB greeder out there have no clue that a little dog needs to be groomed.

We see far more little dogs that come in that desperately need rescue due to improper breeding and temperament issues. In fact, in Ontario there are quite a few rescues solely dedicated to small hairy breed dogs that need rescue because there are so many out there looking for homes.

In fact just last year we had someone who purchased a mixed breed little hairy dog for $3000 and then surrendered it to the shelter a month after buying it!

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post #106 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 03:41 PM
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People have to be ignorant to spend $3,000 on a mixed breed!!! Just can't imagine what someone is thinking!

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post #107 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 03:44 PM
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Yep and yet they bitch about a $250 adoption fee when it comes fixed, microchipped and vaccinated :S Strange world we live in!
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post #108 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianHouse View Post
Yep and yet they bitch about a $250 adoption fee when it comes fixed, microchipped and vaccinated :S Strange world we live in!
I paid $250 for Griffin, his fee from a Dobe rescue who took care of the SPCA adoption fee, vet exam and vax costs, neutering, and microchipping. Plus he was housed in a foster home, with another dog and cats, so I knew exactly what I was bringing home in terms of temperament and tolerance for other animals. His foster was an experienced Dobe person and had some basic obedience on him before I brought him home, too.

So you can pay $3,000 from a BYB for a whoopsadoodlepoosuperpowerfluff dog with no health testing and a fancy name, sure. Or just stop by your local rescue or animal shelter and drop $250 and save the extra cash for the vet bills if they come up. Seriously, when did mutt become a dirty word? It shouldn't be. There's nothing wrong with going to the pound and adopting a mutt. There's nothing wrong with mutts, period. They're good dogs. You're getting the same thing from a shelter that the designer dog breeder is selling, only you're paying less and you'll have more money to blow on toys, training, and vet bills.

I know which options I'd pick. A well-bred dog from health tested and titled parents won't run 3K. $3,000 for a mixed breed? No way. My family had a cockapoo and a shepherd cross when I was a kid, both were $50 from the pound. Our local shelters and Craigslist have herding and hound mixes, a dime a dozen. Save the extra cash for when you bring your new dog home and he promptly cracks the biggest molar in his mouth, resulting in a $700 vet bill. Right, Griffin?
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post #109 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 05:06 PM
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Unfortunately, the human species is opportunistic.

The seller has a right to sell their wares to the public, the buyer has a right to make a poor choice, but the buyer also has the right to learn from that poor choice. Whether they do, is up to them.

We will NEVER get rid of people that prey upon the uneducated without giving up many of our rights, whether that's selling cars or animals. Yes, it is heart-wrenching that people use animals to make a profit.

Has the world reduced the number of murders, rapes, other violent crimes because we have laws prohibiting these acts? No. Our jails are still filled with such criminals. Laws do not stop people from being bad.

Our duty is to teach people and not to alienate their ideas. Open their minds, in a positive way, and give them the opportunity to evaluate their opinions. Some will take it and grow, some won't.
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post #110 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 05:43 PM
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Still like to know the name of that champion bitch you own/owned and bred to that ROM champion male. You seem to be ignoring that question. Looks like you would be proud to prove you really do show like you say.

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post #111 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 05:47 PM
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post #112 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 05:48 PM
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Not a thing wrong with mutts. My mutt is the best dog in the house. Something is wrong with a person who breeds them on purpose and makes big money on them.

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post #113 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mMyra View Post
I give up, there is no cure for stupid. You don't even know me. You don't know anything about me. You made up all that nonsense about me and you feed off each other like a pack of crazed dogs. I don't have to prove anything to you. I'll put my home and dogs up against any of you any time. At least I don't keep dogs locked in cages 10 hours a day and give advice on how to keep them from eating their bedding or breaking their teeth trying to get out-- SHAMEFUL!! All the advice I hear you say is "the dogs problem is medical and hire a trainer." Do you think you are really helping anyone?? There is a big world out there if you haven't noticed and there are many good people trying to help dogs other than yourselves. Oh by the way, next time you go to the local shelter see how many small dogs there are up for adoption. None. There are all Bullies, Shepard mixes, Rott Mixes and yes, Doberman mixes.
Hmm, to your sentence I bolded there, uh, yeah, not even close, Sunshine.

Right now we have nine Chis and Chi mixes, two Boston mixes, four Shih Tzu mixes, one that appears purebred, though not well-bred, two Yorkies, one Pom, one Papillon mix, and four small Terrier types.

For a sixty dog maximum census, having about twenty small breeds is a fairly high percentage, I'll imagine you'd agree--certainly a few more than your fairytale dream of "none" in the kill shelter.

That's just one local shelter.

We have several other shelters around, also with small dogs, and we have several small-dog-specific rescues that pull from these same shelters--these rescues stay full, with waiting lists for foster spots.


You are completely irresponsible, to be breeding more, without knowing the reality or having any factual basis for your beliefs.

Quote:
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I see quite a few small dogs that come in our doors at the shelter.....mostly shihpoo/maltipoo/whatever hairy little dog mixed. Usually completely matted because the people that bought them from whatever BYB greeder out there have no clue that a little dog needs to be groomed.

Bingo!

Cannot begin to tell you how very many buyers think "non-shedding" means low maintenance.

And I blame not only their lack of common sense and incomplete research--but also very much the breeder they buy from.

Apparently said breeder never clues them in that "non-shedding" means the owner must brush out the dead hair regularly from their new little pet's coat, or else all the misery and expense of dematting that fluff-n-stuff ensues.

We see far more little dogs that come in that desperately need rescue due to improper breeding and temperament issues. In fact, in Ontario there are quite a few rescues solely dedicated to small hairy breed dogs that need rescue because there are so many out there looking for homes.

OMG, yes. The foul temperaments, and the sheer number of surgeries needed for the bad knees (luxating patellas) and bad hips and dentals and all that crap that it sometimes seem every single small dog comes into rescue needing.

In fact just last year we had someone who purchased a mixed breed little hairy dog for $3000 and then surrendered it to the shelter a month after buying it!
I know, it kills me, those people who think a big purchase price reflects some sort of commitment and some guarantee of a good home.

I've seen little old ladies on social security do a better job with their dogs than $ome of these people who throw money around like it was confetti.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianHouse View Post
Yep and yet they bitch about a $250 adoption fee when it comes fixed, microchipped and vaccinated :S Strange world we live in!
And some even go further, and accuse the rescues of "making a big profit."

Yeah, because the dogs who cost nearly a thousand, or more, to fix, after somebody else broke them, that all gets made up by one $250 adoption.

Must be the "new math."


Quote:
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Not a thing wrong with mutts. My mutt is the best dog in the house. Something is wrong with a person who breeds them on purpose and makes big money on them.

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Absolutely, my mutt is the most supercool dog ever.

I have had folks in public insist and argue with me, that he must be "some kind of breed," because they seem to think mutts are ugly, dumb, worthless, etc.

But, by damn, if I seriously put some silly label on him, a cutesy made-up "breed" name, and said he was A Designer Dog, they'd totally accept that and think that was awesome.





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post #114 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 07:05 AM
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I've seen homeless people treat their fogs better than clients who paid big bucks for their purebred!
And the homeless usually find them on the street...
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post #115 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
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Absolutely, my mutt is the most supercool dog ever.

I have had folks in public insist and argue with me, that he must be "some kind of breed," because they seem to think mutts are ugly, dumb, worthless, etc.

But, by damn, if I seriously put some silly label on him, a cutesy made-up "breed" name, and said he was A Designer Dog, they'd totally accept that and think that was awesome.
It's amazing how many people question my assertion that Leo is (likely) a purebred GSD, yet insist that Ilka just HAS to be some kind of purebred something. GSD aren't supposed to be fluffy, don'tcha know, and a dog as pretty as Ilka is obviously a purebred.


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post #116 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 12:06 PM
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RFR, just for curiosity's sake, I checked out our local animal shelter for small dogs. Out of roughly 20 dogs up for adoption right now, four were little dogs. Most were herding breed mixes, pit bull crosses, and various hunting dogs. But, if you'd like a little dog, you have a choice between two yorkie mixes, a Jack Russel mix, and a min pin mix.

So yes, when I get a puppy he/she will be from a breeder who knows their dogs, titles, and health tests. If I ever want a mixed breed, animal shelter it is, because there's a great variety of mutts you can adopt. Of course, there's deliberate crosses done for specific purposes (herding/hunting etc.) and that's a different ball game, although any responsible breeder will do all health testing, titling or other proof that the dogs can work, etc. Just not charge $3,000 for throwing two dogs together and hanging a cutesy-sounding name on the pups. If I want a mutt with no health testing and the rest of it, I'll head down to the pound or a local dog/cat rescue. Otherwise, a good breeder for sure.

Edited to add- about rescue adoption fees? Yeah, $250 would not have covered all of Griffin's vet care and food bills while he was in the rescue. He was dumped in the shelter with no records, so they had to assume he hadn't had any vaccinations. So, his SPCA adoption fee, a full vet exam, plus vaccines, plus three months of food (he was underweight according to the shelter paperwork, so he needed some groceries), plus the rescue and foster home's time and gas. $250 might cover part of that, but certainly not all. And then there's the costs the rescue has for dogs who are in worse shape than Griffin- the ones who are injured, need surgeries, months of care to get them healthy again.

I adopted Griffin from these guys, btw, if anyone in the DC area is looking for a Dobe. Shameless plug for Doberman Assistance, Rescue, and Education. Thanks for hauling Griff out of a kill shelter 6 years ago. He's a good dog.

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post #117 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mMyra View Post
In my experience people don't value something they don't pay for.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ANIMAL!!

Wow. Just WOW. I'm sorry, but what the actual F***? I don't even.... Yeah. No.

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post #118 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustusMcCrae View Post
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ANIMAL!!

Wow. Just WOW. I'm sorry, but what the actual F***? I don't even.... Yeah. No.

I originally thought she was just out of touch with reality but then I think her statement was a way she justifies breeding mix breeds and charging outrageous prices.
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post #119 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 02:29 PM
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I just have to mention that I bought a backyard bred/puppy mill lab years ago, before I even knew what those terms meant. He had the best personality you can imagine, but boy did I end up financially screwed. He was on sale for $400 (from $600) if I bought him that very day because they had so many puppies. He died at age 9, and I put about $20,000 in vet bills into him just to get him to that age. Then I found out from a vet tech at a local vet that many dogs from this place have major health issues. So I think maybe temperament-wise labs are easy to breed, but health-wise it is still a huge gamble.
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post #120 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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HOLY COW talk about a lot of responses!

You guys are great-thank you so much for the feedback! I did not mean to get people so heated at one another on tangent issues but it is really neat to see how passionate you all are.

I will admit that I only read the first 3 pages before typing this response but I felt that was all I needed. I understand the meaning of breeding stock and the importance to title the dog and responsibly breed for betterment of the breed. It is sad that the cost of the dogs are so high but then again people can always find a way to pay for them. I choose 2 Dobermans over the new Macbook and new iPhone so I can see how people can reasonably pay for a Doberman if they are willing to be responsible with their finances.

You all have convinced me that this is not the time in my life to breed Dobermans nor are the dogs I currently have the pair that I should start my breeding career out with. I think it will better suit my lifestyle after school and probably even after medicine but I look forward to developing myself when the time comes. Thank you all for the information, and at times, your blatant honesty.

On an ending note, what are your opinions on producing a single litter of puppies for family members and then having the male neutered? We have divorced parents and many siblings starting out their families that have fallen in love with our dogs but could never bring themselves to sacrifice their beloved iPhones to get one. Would it be okay if we allowed one litter from our dogs about 18-24 months from now to be given to our family only? None of the dogs would be sold, none would go to strangers, and all the homes they would be going to are great. I know this litter would not 'better the breed' but I also know that it wouldn't be polluting it. Again your honesty on the subject will be greatly appreciated.

I know all of you are very passionate about this subject but if you all take issue with something that someone else has said please respond to them in a private message instead of a post.
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post #121 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo13 View Post
On an ending note, what are your opinions on producing a single litter of puppies for family members and then having the male neutered? We have divorced parents and many siblings starting out their families that have fallen in love with our dogs but could never bring themselves to sacrifice their beloved iPhones to get one. Would it be okay if we allowed one litter from our dogs about 18-24 months from now to be given to our family only? None of the dogs would be sold, none would go to strangers, and all the homes they would be going to are great. I know this litter would not 'better the breed' but I also know that it wouldn't be polluting it. Again your honesty on the subject will be greatly appreciated.

I know all of you are very passionate about this subject but if you all take issue with something that someone else has said please respond to them in a private message instead of a post.
This is not reputable breeding. This is what BYBs etc do. Breeding just to breed pets is not what I consider responsible or reputable.

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post #122 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:48 PM
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after 5 pages and 121 posts, my initial response to this thread still stands!!

https://www.dobermantalk.com/2570369-post33.html

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post #123 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo13 View Post
HOLY COW talk about a lot of responses!

You guys are great-thank you so much for the feedback! I did not mean to get people so heated at one another on tangent issues but it is really neat to see how passionate you all are.

I will admit that I only read the first 3 pages before typing this response but I felt that was all I needed. I understand the meaning of breeding stock and the importance to title the dog and responsibly breed for betterment of the breed. It is sad that the cost of the dogs are so high but then again people can always find a way to pay for them. I choose 2 Dobermans over the new Macbook and new iPhone so I can see how people can reasonably pay for a Doberman if they are willing to be responsible with their finances.

You all have convinced me that this is not the time in my life to breed Dobermans nor are the dogs I currently have the pair that I should start my breeding career out with. I think it will better suit my lifestyle after school and probably even after medicine but I look forward to developing myself when the time comes. Thank you all for the information, and at times, your blatant honesty.

On an ending note, what are your opinions on producing a single litter of puppies for family members and then having the male neutered? We have divorced parents and many siblings starting out their families that have fallen in love with our dogs but could never bring themselves to sacrifice their beloved iPhones to get one. Would it be okay if we allowed one litter from our dogs about 18-24 months from now to be given to our family only? None of the dogs would be sold, none would go to strangers, and all the homes they would be going to are great. I know this litter would not 'better the breed' but I also know that it wouldn't be polluting it. Again your honesty on the subject will be greatly appreciated.

I know all of you are very passionate about this subject but if you all take issue with something that someone else has said please respond to them in a private message instead of a post.
I would encourage your family members to adopt a Doberman from a reputable rescue, or purchase one from a reputable breeder.


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post #124 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo13 View Post
On an ending note, what are your opinions on producing a single litter of puppies for family members and then having the male neutered? We have divorced parents and many siblings starting out their families that have fallen in love with our dogs but could never bring themselves to sacrifice their beloved iPhones to get one. Would it be okay if we allowed one litter from our dogs about 18-24 months from now to be given to our family only? None of the dogs would be sold, none would go to strangers, and all the homes they would be going to are great. I know this litter would not 'better the breed' but I also know that it wouldn't be polluting it. Again your honesty on the subject will be greatly appreciated.
Personally, I wouldn't. You would still need to do all of the appropriate health testing for your male and female, or risk landing your family members with a dog that has a lot of potentially expensive health problems. Dobes are not the healthiest breed out there, and any dog that's going to be bred needs to have that health testing done.

You're also still on the hook for all the expenses of breeding a litter. If something goes wrong, and Mom needs a c-section or other serious vet care, that's on you. Puppy shots, deworming, vet visits, food, all of the time that you'll spend raising a litter- plan on having no life or sleep for a while- ear cropping, etc. etc. That's all your responsibility. There was an excellent post on this forum about the expenses of breeding a litter, I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

There's also the "Oh, I want a puppy!" knee-jerk reaction that people have whenever anyone talks about breeding. Then when the litter's on the ground, people change their minds about taking on a dog. What are you going to do if all the family members who swore up and down they would take a puppy suddenly decide they don't want it after all? Or if they decide they don't want the puppy when he/she hits the Doberteens and they show up at your door, expecting you to take the puppy back? A responsible breeder should always take their dogs back, if owners can't keep them.

Honestly, I'd steer your family towards a reputable breeder or Doberman rescue. If they want a dog, it's better for them to talk to someone who can match the right dog with their situation. That keeps you out of potential drama with your family too. I'd go ahead, get them neutered, and then find a mentor in the breed to get started with a good breeding program in the future.
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post #125 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:13 PM
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Wow. I just got back around to DT a couple of days ago, and had been reading through this thread. I despise people that breed "designer" breeds and the ignorant idiots that pay for them. The only good to come from this thread is that we know what Myra is doing and where she is and it made it very simple for me to report her to AKC and to the local AC authority.

And Myra when they come chat with you and tell you they received an anonymous report... there was nothing anonymous about it.... it was ME!


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