Monaco Dobermans - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

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post #26 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-07-2008, 10:49 PM
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Well yes I dont belive she shows in conformation anymore, If she does its in shows out in the middle of no where???

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Originally Posted by fabertdobes View Post
Sadly we have heard from client who paid like 4,000. for a pup and the pup had the worst temperament ever.
What bothers me is buying Euro titled or from titled dogs and not doing anything with them. She has not shown in a ring for ages as i dont remember seeing any of her pups in the rings..
Deb n Maura am i right? she doesnt compete anymore just produce pups?:confused2


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post #27 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-10-2008, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Yes I spoke to her and she doesn't show anymore. It's funny that was he reason for not being a member of the DPCC - I mentioned that other breeders on there do not "show" also...
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post #28 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-21-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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Hi Frankp, I'm glad you have started this thread as our
family is considering getting another doberman and
Monoco was one of the breeders we had thought about
going to. After reading this thread I am leaning towards
Nightflight or Gatehouse and I will try to find time to visit them. How is your breeder search going as we live near you and will most likely be researching the same breeders.
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post #29 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:41 PM
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Wink Neerlands Stam dogs...

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Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
After visiting her website the person in question claims that the dogs have working abillity's...the main lines I see are Neerlands stam...I still have to see the first Neerlands stam dog who has descent working abbility's
Well I don't know this Monaco Dobermanns, so can't comment about her. But I do know a little about Neerlands Stam...

Neerlands Stam has been breeding dogs since 1942 and striving to produce sound dogs structurally and temperamentally ever since. Han took over the kennel in 1968.

He strives to continue improving structure and temperament, as evidenced by producing Graaf Hajo Gino v Neerlands Stam (a Gino Gomez son who was the 2003 Vize-World Winner as well as the 2004 DV Sieger, Club Winner and EuropaSieger). The dog is also a SchH III, IPO III, SpH/FH, ZTP 1A-V dog with all health clearances.

To his credit, (or maybe Gino's!), he also produced Graaf Humphrey v Neerlands Stam. Humphrey is also a conformation champion who happened to pass his Korung in Germany. Humphrey is well known in working circles winning numerous Regional IPO III Championships, as well as placing 3rd in the 2004 Dutch National IPO III Championships. And again, passed all his health clearances.

Han continues to strive to bring in temperament as evidenced by his current litter on the ground by Blade van het Wantishof. Blade himself has won numerous Regional Championships, as well as placing 3rd at the 2006 Dutch National IPO III Championships and winning the 2005 Dutch National IPO Championships in IPO II.

So despite their "show" lines, both these dogs have more than proven themselves on the SchH/IPO field. But of course, they both carry Quirinius and Baron Bryan (both "show" dogs) as a lot of the working dogs do.

Now granted, their emphasis is not purely sport regardless of what the dogs look like (like a lot of the purely working lines), but they certainly can do the work even if they do come from sound, health tested, show lines.

Besides, isn't that what the "TOTAL DOBERMANN" is all about?

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."
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post #30 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-29-2008, 05:56 AM
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Blade van het Wantishof is indeed a great dog an so is his owner Herman Visser, I know Herman personally and he is a great guy. And I agree that a dog like Quirinus is in some workpedigrees (I even mentioned that in one of my posts) But IMO Neerlands stam is much more focused on show than work although that's fine by me. On the subject of the results of some of Han's dogs: a good handler is as important as the dog itself if you know what I mean. The difference is IMO again if you would let's say take a burgstatte litter or whatever pure workingline, close your eyes and take a pup from it, you're going to be able to work with the dog. On the other hand by crossing Blade in their lines I think they are doing a great job. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying that Neerlands stam dogs are wrong not at all I've seen some very beautifull dogs from them and as you mentioned Quirinus was of big importance to the breed but that was some time ago.:jonkel:
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post #31 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-29-2008, 12:58 PM
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I don't think I'm getting you wrong... In fact, I think we are in complete agreeance. I wasn't trying to imply or insinuate that v Neerlands Stam was known as a working line kennel, (especially in the same realm as Marco's or Martin's or Alexander's dogs, let alone when you get into the Bayern, Mooreiche or Weyermuhle lines).

In fact, if I didn't agree with you, I wouldn't own dogs from these lines.

I was just responding that this show kennel has indeed been mindful of temperaments and working ability in their breeding program, both "past" and "present", and has indeed produced dogs with "decent working abilities".

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

Last edited by SchH_Mom; 06-29-2008 at 01:04 PM.
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post #32 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-29-2008, 05:21 PM
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Ah OK then, by the way in the past there were some great pedigrees which combined some Neerlands stam and some Mooreicheblood espescially with Castor. It also seems you spend some time with Albert en Marjan Verhoef some time ago
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post #33 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-29-2008, 10:26 PM
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Yes, agreed... and Castor v d Mooreiche sired one of his favorite bitches, a bitch by the name of Isis. (Granddam to my daughter's "Zeke" on the bottom side.)

BTW, I wasn't there in the Netherlands visiting Marjan, but since we both had Asco pups, I was able to ask her about dogs that she had seen work in person when inquiring about pups over there in Nederland.

But you are in Belgium, are you not? Truth be told, I don't know why I think you're in Belgium. Maybe I was thinking of Herman and assumed you were there too.

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

Last edited by SchH_Mom; 06-29-2008 at 10:32 PM.
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post #34 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 03:10 AM
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I'm from Belgium but Herman isn't he's from Holland. Now that's a big difference ask Elly hahahaha
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post #35 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Now that's a big difference ask Elly hahahaha


When I have to write it down, it took me more then one day ha ha

No just kidding, there be no much different between your country and ours, in fact we do a lot together, we trial together train together, just how it must be.

What about the discussion, you all seem to forget, that in the past these kennels produced great dogs, but what happened the more beauty came into, the more the good trainers stay away from the dobes, here in Holland most judge from working trials, started with a dobe, also many people who are training with a mall or GSD. Humprey is a great dog, as well as working as in the house situation, so is Blade, Hajo I never saw in trials, for myself when I choose a dog or kennel, I want to see the dogs on the working field, not only titeld.

I see a lot of good working kennels, but the problem is that there are not so many good trainers for the dogs, because they switch in the past to an other breed. So it isn't always so black and white as it seems. Find a good working home for your dobe isn't easy, so a lot of dogs ended up in the living room instead of the working field.

For the Netherlands I can say that there are good working dogs at the moment, you see more dobes in trials and that is a good sign. Take Johnny with Coach he became 3 rd on the Dutch All breeds wich is great, hopefully next year there will be more dobes on the All breeds.

Last edited by elly; 06-30-2008 at 04:36 AM.
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post #36 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 04:09 AM
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Indeed Elly here in Belgium people like Renaat Brusseel and Roger Snollaerts all started with dobers and according to some of them they say: If you can bring a dober to a decent level of competition you can work with any breed.
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post #37 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 04:12 AM
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Great info regarding Neerlands Stam.
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post #38 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
I'm from Belgium but Herman isn't he's from Holland. Now that's a big difference ask Elly hahahaha
My bad... I had a pretty good idea that you were in Belgium, and I knew Herman was in Holland, must have been a blonde moment... (no way will I admit it might be age!)

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."
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post #39 of 203 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 07:25 PM
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...Humprey is a great dog, as well as working as in the house situation, so is Blade, Hajo I never saw in trials, for myself when I choose a dog or kennel, I want to see the dogs on the working field, not only titeld.

Great points Elly and exactly why we relied on Marjan and others there in person who have seen these dogs work before considering a puppy from them.

It is Emily who is in love with purely the working lines and consequently, we have some of those. But Jennifer wanted something that she could show as well, which is what brought us to looking at some of the show lines. Though SchH and temperament were always our priority.

In fact, when we ask for a pup, we let them know we're not breeders, our priority is the sport, so consequently, we prefer males. At the same time, we tell them that sex and color is secondary to temperament and structure, with temperament being our #1 criteria every time. That is why we chose a Humphrey litter (our Zeke) over a Hajo Gino litter for Jennifer. And why we are now waiting on a Blade puppy as well.

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."
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post #40 of 203 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 01:45 AM
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Here a picture of Blade taken on the WK in Austria, from wich combination you will get a puppy? Blade with ?

I like blade, its a nice dog with a very nice attitude.

It is always diffecult when you don't see it yourself, you always have to wait what you get, what for one person is great can't be for the other, what doesn't mean it is not good.

It is nice that you have people who you can trust, to see and tell you

I see good dogs with bad handlers, and bad dogs with good handlers, so that it looks great, it is all so relatively.

For myself I like lines who fit toghether, and that is what I look at, the parents must be healthy dogs, and willing to work. Beauty is never on the first place.
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post #41 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 01:13 PM
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Monaco Dobermans

I wish I had seen this message long ago and been able to reply to it. We have had 3 dobermans from Monaco and we wouldn't take another dog from them if they gave it to us for free.

We first contacted Monaco and made the 2 1/2 hr trip to see them because they seemed reputable. My husband had been raised with dobermans and had always wanted another one. We have 4 children and live in a suburban neighbourhood.

Anyway we gave our deposit and waited for our dog to be born. When we picked our dog, Grace out from the litter, Molly told us there was one male left that the purchaser had backed out of the reservation. We were told that this little guy had a slight heart murmer but nothing to worry about. She was generous enough to give him to us for the bargain price of $500 while Grace cost us $2500 because she was confident that he was going to a good home. We took both Grace and Brando home with us and we were thrilled.

We then went through all the initial vet stuff and paid for all the shots and what not. We also had to pay for Brando to have his ears cropped as Monaco had not done that.

Within 3 months Brando was dead from Congestive Heart Failure. We were absolutely heart broken!!! We advised Monaco about what had happened and they offered us another dog. When the replacement dog, Holly was born we were advised that we had to pay the addition $2000 that we had been discounted for Brando. There was no consideration for the substantial puppy vet bills, the additional cost of having his ears cropped or the vet bills we had to deal with once he started to get sick and then to have him compassionately put to sleep.

We ended up paying the additional money for the replacement dog as we were already emotionally invested.

By this time, Grace who was still under a year old was started to show serious signs of aggression and we tried having a dog trainer come to the house to help us train her. Unfortunately we ended up have to have her go to live with my brother-in-law up north as she would chase neighbours and children if she ever had the opportunity to get out the front door. She started biting people, including the spca when they came to investigate compaints. We were finally forced to put her down.

Now Holly the 3rd and final dog is 5 1/2 adn is still with us and we love her dearly. Holly however is not a healthy dog. She has always had emotional problems where she was so skittish that when guest came to the door or any of us came home she would get either nervous or excited and run through the house peeing everywhere. She still does that from time to time. Holly also experiences rather sever tremors where she looks like she has parkinsons disease while lying down and is now experiencing a great deal of difficulting in sitting down and getting up from either a seated or laying down position as her hips are in bad shape...she's only 5 1/2 years old!!!

I hope this helps.
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post #42 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 02:30 PM
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Looked at their site and this paragraph really bothered me....

We are not a breeder of superb quantity and excellent temperaments. All of our puppies are carefully hand raised until they go to their respective new homes.

I think I know what they wanted to say BUT.......
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post #43 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 02:45 PM
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Fudget - Thanks for speaking up about your experiences. I'm so sorry for all your heartache and the loss of two of your Dobes. Just awful. No one should have to experience what you have and no pups should be brought into this world with the complete lack of care and consideration shown by Monaco.

I hope you stay around the forum. This is a great place for information, tips, and advice.



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post #44 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 03:00 PM
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I'm so sorry ur family went through that! thanks for sharing your story it will definitely help others in their search.

I contacted Monaco last year when I started my search for a breeder and I had just a bad feeling about them. They also sell their pups on kijiji
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post #45 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 10:17 PM
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Thank you for being a well informed prospective puppy owner. If DTcould educate even half the owners, look how far ahead the breed itself would be. I will say this again, I wish I had found this site before I started looking for puppies.
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post #46 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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Fudget, welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing your experiences here--it will add to the education efforts DT is so involved in.

I'm really sorry to hear of all the heartache, and the lives-cut-short of your poor dogs.




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post #47 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 11:40 AM
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Just an observation and I did not look any further because I know who the real people are in the Doberman world.

But, for being such breeders, what's with this dog with the blown ear?

I've done plenty of ears and never blown one. I repaired many ears via corrective taping and fixed them. I would be embarrased to admit to not knowing how to properly set an ear and calling myself a breeder.
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post #48 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 12:37 PM
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This was a really great read. I have been looking Fi's pedigree recently and Graaf Quirinus v Neerlands stamm is in there, plus a few other Int Ch. I was trying to find out more about him. I was told he was used for stud quite heavily and is in many Euro lines. I have been searching for a book called In the Beginning by Han vd Zwan, can't get it anywhere!
This thread has been really informative


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post #49 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-09-2011, 06:52 AM
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I met a couple that owned 2 MonacoBay dogs a few years at University of Guelph. We were all there for the cardio testing. The male was very nice looking but both had poor temperaments. No one could get near them in the waiting room.

I also knew someone who got a male pup from them. This gentleman and I were part of a monthly meet up group and I watched this pup develop from a skittish nervebag into a very scary (but goodlooking) dog. He was distrustful of everyone but his family. And he made it known.
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post #50 of 203 (permalink) Old 05-09-2011, 07:41 AM
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Fudget when the male pup went to your vet for his vaccines and got his ears cropped did the vet not notice he had more than just a slight heart murmer ? Just wondering. It is such a horrible experience and to think no vet noticed it was that bad.
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