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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Wondering about this breeder. Cobbs

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Asking for hopefully good advice, is this breeder worth a crap, my parent have a male from him that is 8 yrs old and still in great condition and a beautiful dog, I know we must have won the lottery. But also I think he has stepped up his game in the last few years. I know it seems like he breeds a whole lot of pups with the same dogs, my question is that is this going to interfere with the health of a pup I might get from him because maybe his females were over bred. I had saw a post on here from like 09 talking down on this guy, just wondering what everyone still thinks of him. Thanks for any help..
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:24 PM
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I wouldn't buy from/support them.
They're doing some health testing but not enough for my liking and they don't seem to do anything but breed their dogs. Sure, you can do worse but you can also do MUCH better.

Health testing is only part of what a breeder should be doing with their dogs... https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html



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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:25 PM
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Based on the front page alone....NO

The akc doesn't inspect kennels for good reasons. An inspection is a red flag not a selling point. And his first point of what they inspect is also wrong. They do not judge quality of stock except in the conformation ring.



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investigations and Inspections


Routine AKC field inspections involve several steps. Field agents begin every visit with a tour of the overall facility checking that the dogs as well as the condition of their environment are in good order. Field agents also check the dogs for properidentification, microchip, tattoo or collar tag.
After a thorough look at the dogs the field agent will review the breeder’s records, often advising the breeder with options on how to maintain hard copies in addition to using the convenient AKC online record system. Breeders are expected to maintain records for at least five years.
ndomly selects breeders for inspection yearly. In addition, to the random selection AKC inspects breeders based on written, signed and substantiated complaints.
Through kennel visits, inspectors seek to work with breeders to help correct any deficiencies, as well as help new breeders develop effective practices and procedures.
If an inspector finds minor deficiencies, the issues are noted and discussed with the breeder in an effort to help the breeder while at the same time meeting AKC’s requirements in the future. While the AKC does not have penal or regulatory authority, breeders who have major kennel deficiencies may lose AKC privileges (ability to register dogs or compete in events). In some cases, fines will be imposed, AKC privileges may be suspended and appropriate law enforcement authorities contacted.
The standard penalty for anyone convicted of animal cruelty involving dogs is a 10-year suspension and a $2,000 fine.
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Last edited by Sam1491; 06-02-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:28 PM
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I don't see the proper heart testing on their website, looks like they just went for the gene test which is only one component to DCM. His girls all look pregnant in the pictures, which tells me they're either fat or... always pregnant, poor girls.

Biggest problem I see is the lack of titles on any of the dogs. No conformation, no sport, no work. Without those, how's he proving that his dogs are breeding quality in the first place?

Doesn't look like he crops prior to sale- most good breeders will crop, if they don't it's with the intention on leaving the puppy natural, not for the buyer to do so. And nothing about limited registration on his contract.

Also what is it with all of these people breeding "just pets" dogs and these stinking NuVet vitamins? I see this across several breeds and it's starting to really bother me. They must get some kind of kickback for it.



In short, I'd say run away from this one.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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So if the akc went out there there was probably a problem that they needed to address? And also if he is just breeding the dogs would that effect the health of my pup? Would there be any testing that I could ask him to do to further guarantee a healthy dog?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:38 PM
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While there is no guarentee there are things that ca be done to stack the odds in your favor.

This includes extensive health testing (vWD status, hips, eyes, thyroid, cardio, etc) and titles either in conformation or sport. These titles prove that a dog is built correctly and/or able to perform under pressure. Keep in mind that form follows function. A dog that is not well built cannot perform as well as one who is and may break down (for lack of a better word) prematurely.

This breeder is not likely to change his breeding practices for a single buyer... I'd just look elsewhere.



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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjBlain View Post
So if the akc went out there there was probably a problem that they needed to address? And also if he is just breeding the dogs would that effect the health of my pup? Would there be any testing that I could ask him to do to further guarantee a healthy dog?
They do happen to do random selections but more of their visits are based on complaints and reasons worth checking the animals safety.

Just breeding will definitely give you a likely less healthy pup. Our breed is unhealthy and not proving the parents in a venue, not testing for all the health issues (hips, eyes, thyroid, cardio, vwd) leaves you, the breeder and all other owners clueless as to how your puppies health will be.

If you give us your location, traveling preferences, and what you are looking for (pet or show and euro or american and working line or show line) we can help you find a good breeder to get your pup from.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Jazi the only thing I would like about the non cropped ears is that, no offense to anyone, is that I dont exactly like the show crop, On my last one his ears were cropped a lot shorter and that was what I liked, the other breeders I've talked to aren't going to give me a shorter crop, Which I would hate to pay close to 2,000$ and not get the crop I wanted
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
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Many breeders do a shorter medium crop on pet puppies as well as some breeders depending on style do mediums. Every breeder has different lengths depending on the cropper they use. Fox fires ears are very long but a'ccarig has nice tall medium proportional ears.

There are also breeders who will leave a pup natural but they can be hard to find sometimes

How short were the ears you mentioned liking?

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjBlain View Post
Jazi the only thing I would like about the non cropped ears is that, no offense to anyone, is that I dont exactly like the show crop, On my last one his ears were cropped a lot shorter and that was what I liked, the other breeders I've talked to aren't going to give me a shorter crop, Which I would hate to pay close to 2,000$ and not get the crop I wanted
I favor natural ears and my choice of breeder in part reflects that. As a result...

I don't know if it'd be possible for someone who has done the whole cropped ears shebang to comment on whether or not a shorter crop could be requested? I know some breeders favor looooooong show crops and others very short military-almost-bully crops, but I don't know if there's any, ah, "customizing".


Patchwork and Sam have both given you really good information as well on the rest of it

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazi View Post

I don't know if it'd be possible for someone who has done the whole cropped ears shebang to comment on whether or not a shorter crop could be requested? I know some breeders favor looooooong show crops and others very short military-almost-bully crops, but I don't know if there's any, ah, "customizing".
I've yet to see a good breeder like military crops.
That being said I think a decent portion of breeders already do or offer a medium cut either solid medium or long medium cut for pet owners. or in the case of others natural.


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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:52 PM
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I do have to say the male they are breeding with is out of standard at 30 inchs. Thyroid is not checked or listed on all dogs. No saying if holter monitor was done before breeding.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Ok perfect guys, I appreciate it and glad i had asked u guys, looks like I'm still in the market for a pup then, I had asked a while back and was given some good leads on breeders close to here STL but the one had a longer cut and said all the pups get the same crop, I guess there could be a lot more things to worry about than the ears being an inch longer than I prefer.. I'll get a pic of my last male up in a bit and ask on opinions on if they were acceptable, I've saw plenty shorter cuts on dobes than I had
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 08:01 PM
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Very true, I prefer certain ears as well but in the end that and coat color aren't as important as a good breeder
P.s. old drum is in Missouri and does show and medium crops. Member brw has one of each style

Can't wait for the pics

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 08:02 PM
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I guess there could be a lot more things to worry about than the ears being an inch longer than I prefer.. I'll get a pic of my last male up in a bit and ask on opinions on if they were acceptable
I get that it's all personal preference here but there ARE many more things to worry about than the ears being slightly long. Back to personal preference though, it's not that short ears are "unacceptable," it's just that what most people think of when you say "short" is not considered to be a good look for a doberman, usually.



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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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This was duke, he has been playing frisbee in heaven for 9 years now, he only lived to be 5, until they said his heart was bad But exactly why I'm wanting a healthy friend this time, but also I loved how short his ears were, should I just give up on being so anal about ear size?
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 09:20 PM
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From those pictures, I wouldn't call those ears short at all. Seems about the length of a pet crop? Someone who's more experienced with it will probably correct me

Forgive me, was Duke from Cobbs? I'd hesitate to go back to a breeder that sold me a dog that died so young from DCM. It's a horrible thing to go through, I'm so sorry for your loss.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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No duke wasn't from cobbs he was from some other hoosiers, he ended up having mange as a pup also and it was hell.. Also why I've came here for advice. I was only 14 yrs old at the time so just old enough to teach him everything that was possible for a pet, and fall completely in love with him, everyone loved him.. My parents now have a male from this Cobb guy that is over 8 yrs old and is beautiful and huge, like 110lbs, I know he's bigger than standard but again I'm not looking to show him, but like everyone has stated, I want more of a health guarantee than anything.. Again I appreciate the advice from everyone
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 09:48 PM
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His ears are a little shorter than a common medium you'll find but I think you'd like the medium old drum uses.
You can always ask her who else that is reputable uses that cropper OR just get a puppy from her

But yes if it comes down to just ears for you I'd let the preference go if the breeder had the health and temperament I desired.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 10:28 PM
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See, Sam knows what she's talking about I'm totally lost on the finer points of the ears.

brw has Old Drum dogs, you might want to get into contact with her to see if that'd be a breeder you'd consider. When you go with a dog from health tested, titled parents, you don't get a guarantee on health... but you do end up a whole lot less likely to face losing your dog so young again. And if things do end up going wrong, you still have that breeder at your back, willing to help you out.

If it's such a slight difference, I'd chalk it up to personal preference and maybe have it as a point to discuss with your chosen breeder as a possibility, but otherwise by the time puupy's home, I'm sure you'd barely notice the difference anyway. They tend to be good distractions!

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quite frankly, this breeder lost me on the first page of their website. "All puppies sold with limited registration (full registration is extra),". Full registration should be because it is an outstanding puppy, and is being sold on a show and/or sport contract. Not because someone is willing to fork over some extra money.


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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2013, 01:52 PM
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In addition to everything already said, they have at least one pedigree (COBB'S ZEALOUS ZEVA) that traces back to Kimbertal. That alone would be a deal breaker for me (even though it's 4 or 5 generations back). A quick review of the Pennsylvania Kennel database (Pennsylvania ROCKS for making this information easily available) shows that Kimbertal transferred 576, yes FIVE HUNDRED + dogs the previous year. What a sad life for those dogs; my money will never support that type of operation.

JMO: I'm quite certain that anyone who would like to own a dog from Cobbs or Kimbertal can easily find one in rescue. At least obtaining one thru rescue would put money in the right hands, and wouldn't be funding these dismal breeding operations.

Here's the link to the Pennsylvannia Kennel Database (in case anyone finds this useful, I wish every state had one).

https://www.padogs.state.pa.us/Publi...spections.aspx
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2013, 02:56 PM
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I would like to contribute a few cents about the ear preference side of this thread.

When I started looking for my first Dobe - I knew I was going to rescue but was looking for a very specific dog. I wanted a young female. I wanted a black female. I wanted ears cropped in a long med or show crop.

What did I end up with? I rescued 2 dogs. 1 male and 1 female. Both are black but neither have their ears cropped at all. However, their personalities are the true heart of my dogs.

Eventually, I would like to get a puppy from a good breeder, and I will definitely want cropped ears. But what my experience has taught me is that personality/temperament and health of a good breeder are worth much more than the crop (or not crop) of the ear...

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by barb0604 View Post
In addition to everything already said, they have at least one pedigree (COBB'S ZEALOUS ZEVA) that traces back to Kimbertal. That alone would be a deal breaker for me (even though it's 4 or 5 generations back). A quick review of the Pennsylvania Kennel database (Pennsylvania ROCKS for making this information easily available) shows that Kimbertal transferred 576, yes FIVE HUNDRED + dogs the previous year. What a sad life for those dogs; my money will never support that type of operation.

JMO: I'm quite certain that anyone who would like to own a dog from Cobbs or Kimbertal can easily find one in rescue. At least obtaining one thru rescue would put money in the right hands, and wouldn't be funding these dismal breeding operations.

Here's the link to the Pennsylvannia Kennel Database (in case anyone finds this useful, I wish every state had one).

https://www.padogs.state.pa.us/Publi...spections.aspx
576 dogs??? If we assume a litter size of 10... That's FIFTY SEVEN LITTERS??? In one year??!!

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
576 dogs??? If we assume a litter size of 10... That's FIFTY SEVEN LITTERS??? In one year??!!
You might be forgetting their "breed her twice, sell us the puppies dirt cheap, and she's yours" bitch scheme. If they don't transfer ownership until they have their two litters, then they will be listed as the breeder of the puppies.


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