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post #12 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 07:05 PM
Artemis
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Dobermann di Ultimatus doesn't do anything with their dogs. They don't title them, they barely health test them and to my understanding don't even register them with the Canadian Kennel Club.

Aldercrest is a name I haven't seen in a while but they're one of the ones on the west coast. Vom Landgraf as well, but unless you can show you have titled dogs in protection venues in the past I doubt Wendy will sell you a dog. She won't even sell to long time, experienced doberman owners if they've never owned a dobe from working lines and worked/trained them.
You've got Incredible Dobermans out there as well.

We don't really rank breeders by an absolute "best of" on this forum because it really depends on what you want. Who is the 'best' totally depends on your individual criteria and your needs, plus individual preferences. Even in terms of work there will be preferences. Personally so far I prefer a more sensitive and responsive dog who I only need to use verbal corrections with than a dog who is a massive badass but very hard and fights the handler instead of fighting the decoy. Some people prefer a hard dog that will endure whatever they throw at the verbally or physically and come out the same on the other side.

For your specific needs because you want your dog to also be an SD I'd be looking at recommending Vom Koby Haus (NY), Schwarzer Stolz (Quebec) or Rebholzer (VT) although the latter is not planning a litter any time soon. Those three use primarily or exclusively European lines. The first has produced certified therapy dogs who also title in IGP, the second is expecting her first litter with an imported bitch from Belarus who has a BH and is a UKC ch, and breeding to a stud from the former. The last has produced at least one medical alert dog to my knowledge and has a current cadaver dog in another state.

You've got Julie Stade, Kansa Dobermans, Benchmark Dobermans, all in the midwest and Cara Dobermans in NY who blend US and European show and working lines. However from the dogs I have seen of these breeders in terms of physical attributes they are definitely producing more moderate looking dogs, and probably not the type you are looking for. Temperaments are a range and you'd have to check for the SD prospects but Julie's dogs are all "farm dogs" on top of everything else and seem to have a well-rounded temperament. Benchmark's dogs do PSA so as you can imagine they have a lot of nerve and strength of temperament.

There is one breeder - Bell'Lavoro who might have what you're looking for in terms of looks. I know nothing about Vicky's dogs in terms of temperament though so I can't vouch for you there.

Swift Run and Treasure Seeker are in the South. I am not 100% on this but I think they also do blended lines.

The united doberman club website as was referred to you up thread is a good place to start.

I have a Psychiatric (Anxiety, PTSD and mood disorders) Service doberman who also trains in IGP. It takes a special dog to do both, because where some dogs might excel at the sport, the parts of them that help them excel might not be great for public access work. And particularly dobermans - who are so sensitive and so in-tuned to their owner's mental and emotional well being, but them being protection dogs mean that they might tend to have the reflex of inappropriate reactions (i.e. if you get anxious and the dog hasn't properly been trained or shown how to respond, he may react to a nearby person. If the dog hasn't learned to discern what is an external threat, he will take his cues from you and make decisions that won't always be the right one. If you pair that with a strong working temperament and a genetic propensity to bite... you an see how that can get disastrous quickly).

The first thing you should be looking for is absolute temperamental stability. And I can tell you that unlike what a lot of people think, Euros are not inherently more even keeled or even tempered, and they are not necessarily truly strong protection dogs (many show line euros will have a ZTP or even IPO1, but they were built all up in prey drive and are otherwise skittish dogs who cower). Heck I've seen a couple fail their Temperament Test at UDC shows.

Also keep in mind that someone striving to produce IDC Weltmeister IGP3 champions, may not care about other aspects of temperament as long as they perform on the field. So when seeking an SD, especially a PSD you're gonna have to ask questions and talk to a lot of people and really research lines and pedigrees, not just look at titles.

I know a dog who has a Canine Good Neighbour title who just bit his terrified owner, requiring stitches. So titles don't always tell the whole story when it comes to temperament. The good thing however is that in my experience most working breeders are very honest and very realistic about their dog's temperaments and are likely to have a good gauge on them.

Follow the United Doberman Club facebook and instagram pages, go to the website and reach out to them. You can also reach out to the breeders suggested in this thread. But be patient.

It really is a shame Rebholzer's planned litter this year fell through, because I have been so impressed with her dogs and I have seen them under duress and holy ****, bar none probably the most solid environmental nerves and stability I have personally witnessed. And this is a reflection in my opinion of the rigorous mentality she has in terms of the priority she puts on the quality of temperament in her dogs. She is my mentor for a reason. However she could probably give you recommendations for breeders in terms of what you're seeking.

Last edited by Artemis; 06-27-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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