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Doberman Conformation

38K views 159 replies 33 participants last post by  Sam1491 
#1 ·
Inspired by Elly's very educational history thread, I thought we could continue with the educational theme :) Not to mention if I'm considering getting into showing I need to learn about this stuff (so this is a little self serving :p). I know a number of you show so you will be able to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us.

Below is a copy of the doberman standard from www.dpca.org What I'm hoping for is that following the standard we could post pics of actual show dogs and comment on those dogs' conformation. This such as this dog has a very nice neck, but his head is too so and so, while this other dog has a perfect head, but his body looks too long.. that sort of stuff. That way us noobs can start to learn visually what it takes to have a good conformation show dog.






Official AKC Standard of the Doberman Pinscher
(Adopted February 6, 1982)

* GENERAL APPEARANCE
* The appearance is that of a dog of medium size, with a body that is square. Compactly built, muscular and powerful, for great endurance and speed. Elegant in appearance, of proud carriage, reflecting great nobility and temperament. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient.

SIZE, PROPORTION, SUBSTANCE
* Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27 1/2 inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25 1/2 inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equaling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.

HEAD
* Long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in a practically unbroken line. Eyes almond shaped, moderately deep set, with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.
* Top of skull flat, turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle, with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Nose solid black on black dogs, dark brown on red ones, dark gray on blue ones, dark tan on fawns. Lips lying close to jaws. Jaws full and powerful, well filled under the eyes.
* Teeth strongly developed and white. Lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper incisors true scissors bite. 42 correctly placed teeth, 22 in the lower, 20 in the upper jaw. Distemper teeth shall not be penalized. Disqualifying Faults: Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch. Undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth.

NECK, TOPLINE, BODY
* Neck proudly carried, well muscled and dry. Well arched, with nape of neck widening gradually toward body. Length of neck proportioned to body and head. Withers pronounced and forming the highest point of the body. Back short, firm, of sufficient width, and muscular at the loins, extending in a straight line from withers to the slightly rounded croup.
* Chest broad with forechest well defined. Ribs well sprung from the spine, but flattened in lower end to permit elbow clearance. Brisket reaching deep to the elbow. Belly well tucked up, extending in a curved line from the brisket. Loins wide and muscled. Hips broad and in proportion to body, breadth of hips being approximately equal to breadth of body at rib cage and shoulders. Tail docked at approximately second joint, appears to be a continuation of the spine, and is carried only slightly above the horizontal when the dog is alert.

FOREQUARTERS
* Shoulder Blade sloping forward and downward at a 45-degree angle to the ground meets the upper arm at an angle of 90 degrees. Length of shoulder blade and upper arm are equal. Height from elbow to withers approximately equals height from ground to elbow. Legs seen from front and side, perfectly straight and parallel to each other from elbow to pastern; muscled and sinewy, with heavy bone. In normal pose and when gaiting, the elbows lie close to the brisket. Pasterns firm and almost perpendicular to the ground. Dewclaws may be removed. Feet well arched, compact, and catlike, turning neither in nor out.

HINDQUARTERS
* The angulation of the hindquarters balances that of the forequarters. Hip Bone falls away from spinal column at an angle of about 30 degrees, producing a slightly rounded, well filled-out croup. Upper Shanks at right angles to the hip bones, are long, wide, and well muscled on both sides of thigh, with clearly defined stifles. Upper and lower shanks are of equal length. While the dog is at rest, hock to heel is perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the legs are straight, parallel to each other, and wide enough apart to fit in with a properly built body. Dewclaws, if any, are generally removed. Cat feet as on front legs, turning neither in nor out.

COAT
* Smooth-haired, short, hard, thick and close lying. Invisible gray undercoat on neck permissible.
* Color and Markings
* Allowed Colors: Black, red, blue, and fawn (Isabella). Markings : Rust, sharply defined, appearing above each eye and on muzzle, throat and forechest, on all legs and feet, and below tail. White patch on chest, not exceeding 1/2 square inch, permissible. Disqualifying Fault : Dogs not of an allowed color.

GAIT
* Free, balanced and vigorous, with good reach in the forequarters and good driving power in the hindquarters. When trotting, there is strong rear-action drive. Each rear leg moves in line with the foreleg on the same side. Rear and front legs are thrown neither in nor out. Back remains strong and firm. When moving at a fast trot, a properly built dog will single-track.

TEMPERAMENT
* Energetic, watchful, determined alert, fearless, loyal and obedient. The judge shall dismiss from the ring any shy or vicious Doberman.
* Shyness: A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge; if it fears an approach from the rear; if it shies at sudden and unusual noises to a marked degree.
* Viciousness: A dog that attacks or attempts to attack either the judge or its handier, is definitely vicious. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness.

FAULTS
* The foregoing description is that of the ideal Doberman Pinscher. Any deviation from the above described dog must be penalized to the extent of the deviation.

DISQUALIFICATIONS
* Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch, undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth. Dogs not of an allowed color.


 
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#27 · (Edited)
LapDog said:
Its awesome how they learn to to eventually stand, tail up, ears up lol
To a certain degree, that's just temperament/genetics. Both of the dogs whose pics I've posted had very little actual show training at the time those pics were taken. That was the second time the red male had been stacked in his life, the first time had been about 8 months prior to that.

Dogs can certainly be trained to hold their tails and ears up, and proper paw placement to free stack..but it's just easier all the way around to find confident dogs who naturally have good body language.

Here's the red male at about 5 months of age. This pic was taken from a distance, cropped and enlarged. As you can see, he naturally stands pretty close to the stacked position.
 
#28 ·
doberkim said:
first cyrus - and i adore cyrus - i think youre website has better pics of him on there, cause my favorite isnt in your gallery... or maybe i just saw it posted.

love cyrus's feet. nice and tight. good rear angulation in my book, and a pretty good topline. nice tailset. great head, lovely planes, the first pic has a lovely arch to his neck and it flows into his shoulder/back very nicely - however, not in the other two pics, where he seems sorta hunchey (but he also looks really short-backed in one of the pics too). he looks to be in better condition in the first pic, has a nice tuck up, and looks a little heavier in the other shots contributing to his hump. the only real thing that i dont like on your boy is how his chest looks in the one shot - almost bowling-ball-ish, but its not as significant in the other shots to bother me, so a lot is how he is stacked. a bit lippy, but thats how i like my dobes :) very masculine face, and you know hes all male.
Most of those pictures were in my camera, so they were us just fiddling around. I don't have any of his specials career win photos scanned (the computer with the photo editing software is dead), so I don't have anything recent. But, you're right he does have a lot of front, and he is lippy. The pictures where he looks heavier and hunchy he was on hiatus from the ring (plus it was over 100 degrees). He's so short-backed that he looked odd showing around here as a puppy. In this area most of the puppies were from a popular stud who was in Indiana at the time, and they were all long. He's also kind of a big dog, top end of standard. In the picture where he's sitting next to Dagger, you can see how much bigger he is (not that Dagger was a big dog).

I'll try and get some of the more recent ones scanned.

Here's a puppy pic - 14 weeks



and a head shot - taken at 2004 Nationals - 18 months old

 
#30 ·
Murreydobe said:
To a certain degree, that's just temperament/genetics. Both of the dogs whose pics I've posted had very little actual show training at the time those pics were taken. That was the second time the red male had been stacked in his life, the first time had been about 8 months prior to that.

Dogs can certainly be trained to hold their tails and ears up, and proper paw placement to free stack..but it's just easier all the way around to find confident dogs who naturally have good body language.
I agree, and attitude goes a looonngg way in the show ring. A confident dog has a "look at me" attitude. I can't tell you how many dogs I've seen slink around the ring.
 
#31 ·
Blackdog said:
Cheryl - Rush is very pretty!
Thanks! He's got a lot of good qualities, it just was never in the cards for him to be a show dog. Uniball, with ear cartilege so heavy the ears wouldn't stand..they were strung when he was about 14 months old. LOL, he's in the category of "amazingly good quality pet quality dog", and a happy goofball.
 
#32 ·
i still think cyrus should come live with me too.

wanna trade a young blue boy who just put a hole in my comforter while i was cleaning out his crate? :) apparently when chewing stuffies, its hard to tell the difference between stuffy and bed.
 
#35 ·
doberkim said:
i still think cyrus should come live with me too.

wanna trade a young blue boy who just put a hole in my comforter while i was cleaning out his crate? :) apparently when chewing stuffies, its hard to tell the difference between stuffy and bed.
There are days I'd gladly send him to you. He can be a handful.
(although right now he's being good - he's licking a kitten's tummy)
 
#39 ·
Blackdog said:
Very pretty.
Don't just love Tom's photos? And they're so nice to deal with.
Yeah, I love his work. It infuriated me when I saw him working at the Nationals for the last few years, since I didn't have any dogs with me. So I was really, really happy to see him out here for the big Indio cluster in January..everything finally came into alignment-they were there, I was there WITH dog!

People are free to critique both Rush and Razzle to their heart's content..then I'll jump in and say "yea or nay", and tell you about things that can't be seen in the photos. For some reason I can only figure out how to post thumbnails, sorry about that!
 
#45 ·
BIB, I'll take a go at rommel :) I don't know much of anything lol. Judging from the pictures it seems his body is long...but that is probably from his young age...and still filling out..and growing in height. or maybe his chest is just not as deep causing him to appear longer. The picture of him moving is real nice I think though! and to my untrained eye I think he has a real nice face...:)
 
#47 ·
LapDog said:
BIB, I'll take a go at rommel :) I don't know much of anything lol. Judging from the pictures it seems his body is long...but that is probably from his young age...and still filling out..and growing in height. or maybe his chest is just not as deep causing him to appear longer. The picture of him moving is real nice I think though! and to my untrained eye I think he has a real nice face...:)
Yeah, I think he still has some growth in height, and I know he will fill out some as he gets older. He is 8 months now. He really does have a pretty long body though. And like Kim said, he has a very narrow face and a long nose. Thats another reason I wanted him to have longer ears. He has always had a long narrow nose. Thank you though, I think he is beautiful no matter what :D It's just kind of fun to have people who really know what they are looking at tell you about your dog. Good or bad :)
 
#49 ·
gatehouse said:
Zucker, you should just go sit ring side when the dobes are showing .....there are plenty of experts there LOLOLOL
LOLOL.

But this really is the best advice for someone who really wants to learn about structure. Find a competent mentor, and sit ringside with them during the judging. It's always better to look at living dogs. And movement is the most difficult thing of all to learn..you need to look at lots and lots of dogs moving,and it helps when they're all being gaited through the same patterns.
 
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