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Old 12-18-2012, 03:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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AKC/Eukanuba National Championship

] The Fifinator Fifi is the winner of the 2012 AKC/Eukanuba National Championship Bred-By-Exhibitor Best in SHOW
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hmmmmmmm 106 views no one like FiFi huh?? pretty young lady I think am just a Fifinator Fan sorry DTers
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ahh Fifi she is a gorgeous girl i was very shocked when she didnt place in the group though :/


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Old 12-18-2012, 06:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Breathtaking bitch for sure! Impressive record: 3 X National winner and 65 BISs...and counting!! They are such an impressive team and a joy to watch.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hmmmmmmm 106 views no one like FiFi huh?? pretty young lady I think am just a Fifinator Fan sorry DTers
Doesn't have anything to do with liking or not liking Fifi...I know this bitch very well--I've watched her from the very start of her career as a special.

I think she's an excellent example of a Doberman bitch and I rarely comment on it when someone puts up a recent win--either something like BIS Bred By at Eukanuba or yet another all breed BIS to her credit. I'm alway interested but frankly I kind of hate going through threads that repeat things like "WOW" and "Way to go!"

DoodleDobe,

Even though she has beaten Ch Toledobe's Serengheti's record for three wins at the National there have been other dogs and bitches who have done that--but I don't know that she'll be able to equal or beat Sera's record of 99 all breed Best in Shows. Fifi is 4.5 she's certainly going to be competative for another year or maybe even two--if they plan to breed her most breeders don't like to push that envelope beyond 5 years. I don't remember exactly when Sera was retired to be bred but she was whelped in April of 1994 and by October of 1996 she was top winning dog--all breed in AKC competition. A dog of mine was showing against her puppies by mid 2000 I think so she must have been out of the ring by 1999.

It'll be interesting to see if the owners push the show ring to the limits and keep her showing beyond when bitches normally drop out to produce the next generation. I also know they had a lot of fun with her dam who has a Sch I title and I had heard that her breeder/owner wanted to put at least a I on Fifi as well.

So yeah, I like her too--I don't usually feel that I need to provide a bunch of commentary about it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ahh Fifi she is a gorgeous girl i was very shocked when she didnt place in the group though :/
She wasn't in the groups. Andy Linton's special Ana (Caryola's Antigua) won the breed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Doesn't have anything to do with liking or not liking Fifi...I know this bitch very well--I've watched her from the very start of her career as a special.

I think she's an excellent example of a Doberman bitch and I rarely comment on it when someone puts up a recent win--either something like BIS Bred By at Eukanuba or yet another all breed BIS to her credit. I'm alway interested but frankly I kind of hate going through threads that repeat things like "WOW" and "Way to go!"

DoodleDobe,

Even though she has beaten Ch Toledobe's Serengheti's record for three wins at the National there have been other dogs and bitches who have done that--but I don't know that she'll be able to equal or beat Sera's record of 99 all breed Best in Shows. Fifi is 4.5 she's certainly going to be competative for another year or maybe even two--if they plan to breed her most breeders don't like to push that envelope beyond 5 years. I don't remember exactly when Sera was retired to be bred but she was whelped in April of 1994 and by October of 1996 she was top winning dog--all breed in AKC competition. A dog of mine was showing against her puppies by mid 2000 I think so she must have been out of the ring by 1999.

It'll be interesting to see if the owners push the show ring to the limits and keep her showing beyond when bitches normally drop out to produce the next generation. I also know they had a lot of fun with her dam who has a Sch I title and I had heard that her breeder/owner wanted to put at least a I on Fifi as well.

So yeah, I like her too--I don't usually feel that I need to provide a bunch of commentary about it.
I've wondered this for awhile, but since it was brought up, I have to ask.

Why do they keep showing her when she's already had 65+ BIS? To me, it seems like some self-righteous journey rather than for the dog. I mean, everyone knows what a beautiful, well put together doberman she is, but why do they continue? Really, I just question people's motives.

To the bolded part. She's 4.5 years old and has been brought up in the show ring, not on a schutzhund field. I'm not gonna sit here and say it can't be done because I don't know the dog, but if they really put a well-deserved schutzhund 1 title on the bitch, I will be shocked. (That is an understatement as well)

Personally, I would have much rather seen her get just a few BIS's at the biggest events, and then get some performance titles, such as in schutzhund. That to me says more about the dog rather than trying to beat some national record in show ring.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I've wondered this for awhile, but since it was brought up, I have to ask.

Why do they keep showing her when she's already had 65+ BIS? To me, it seems like some self-righteous journey rather than for the dog. I mean, everyone knows what a beautiful, well put together doberman she is, but why do they continue? Really, I just question people's motives.

To the bolded part. She's 4.5 years old and has been brought up in the show ring, not on a schutzhund field. I'm not gonna sit here and say it can't be done because I don't know the dog, but if they really put a well-deserved schutzhund 1 title on the bitch, I will be shocked. (That is an understatement as well)

Personally, I would have much rather seen her get just a few BIS's at the biggest events, and then get some performance titles, such as in schutzhund. That to me says more about the dog rather than trying to beat some national record in show ring.
Because both the dog and handler love it. If they are winning and enjoying it why does it matter if she continues to show? This is about Jocelyn's success as a breeder/owner/handler at eukanuba, it doesn't need to be turned into why isn't she doing schutzhund with her.

Also, you don't just show up at the "biggest events" and win BIS even if you have a nice dog. There's so many nice dogs out there that it takes a lot of campaigning and advertising for that to happen. I don't think Jocelyn is trying to set any national records, but you would have to ask her.

Last edited by Dobelove; 12-18-2012 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't think Asmit was implying anything derogatory about the dog or the handler at all. It was a valid question. Most puppy buyers who are willing to wait several months to several years for a particular breeding (and I'm assuming any of Fifi's progeny will be scooped up before they even hit the ground) want to see a slew of titles behind a dog's name, and not all for show. Proving a dog can work is just as important when breeding dobes, is it not?

Self-righteous journey? Well, Dobelove said, "this is about Jocelyn's success...", which to me, means that it's more bragging rights for her and her career than it is for the dog. I guess it's a good thing we all assume that Fifi loves it as much as Jocelyn does. *shrug*
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Self-righteous journey? Well, Dobelove said, "this is about Jocelyn's success...", which to me, means that it's more bragging rights for her and her career than it is for the dog. I guess it's a good thing we all assume that Fifi loves it as much as Jocelyn does. *shrug*
I know Asmit didn't say anything derogitory towards Fifi. All I meant is who cares why she's still being shown? Who cares if it's self righteous? I doubt anyone on here knows if Jocelyn plans on putting a schutzhund (or performance) title on Fifi before she's bred. Maybe Jocelyn doesn't want her bred. So why even bring up the fact that she isn't doing schutzhund?

And by "this" I meant this thread. Not Fifi's career. I don't think it's really an assumption that Fifi loves it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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She wasn't in the groups. Andy Linton's special Ana (Caryola's Antigua) won the breed.
Odd when i read the eukanuba results it said BOB under her title, i must have read it wrong.


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Old 12-18-2012, 10:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying. I don't think Asmit was trying to change the course of the thread; rather just asking an off-the-cuff question as commentary.

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And by "this" I meant this thread.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It'll be interesting to see if the owners push the show ring to the limits and keep her showing beyond when bitches normally drop out to produce the next generation. I also know they had a lot of fun with her dam who has a Sch I title and I had heard that her breeder/owner wanted to put at least a I on Fifi as well.

So yeah, I like her too--I don't usually feel that I need to provide a bunch of commentary about it.
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Because both the dog and handler love it. If they are winning and enjoying it why does it matter if she continues to show? This is about Jocelyn's success as a breeder/owner/handler at eukanuba, it doesn't need to be turned into why isn't she doing schutzhund with her.

Also, you don't just show up at the "biggest events" and win BIS even if you have a nice dog. There's so many nice dogs out there that it takes a lot of campaigning and advertising for that to happen. I don't think Jocelyn is trying to set any national records, but you would have to ask her.
Asmit was not the person who brought up schutzhund, Dobebug was. I believe that Asmit was just saying that if they really do want to put a schutzhund title on her, they've left it kind of late.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Because both the dog and handler love it. If they are winning and enjoying it why does it matter if she continues to show? This is about Jocelyn's success as a breeder/owner/handler at eukanuba, it doesn't need to be turned into why isn't she doing schutzhund with her.

Also, you don't just show up at the "biggest events" and win BIS even if you have a nice dog. There's so many nice dogs out there that it takes a lot of campaigning and advertising for that to happen. I don't think Jocelyn is trying to set any national records, but you would have to ask her.
I didn't mean schutzhund in particular, you just mentioned schutzhund specifically which is why I commented on such.

As Benvera said, "I don't think Asmit was implying anything derogatory about the dog or the handler at all." and I wasn't. It was an honest question as to what the purpose is in achieving 65 BIS versus say 20. I'm not a show person, so I don't exactly understand it.

Lol, for the record, I could care less if she continues to show and spends oodles of money doing so. More power to her! I was just truly curious as to the benefit of this for the dog, its progeny, etc, outside of bragging rights.

I do not however, think I am the only one who would like to see titles on the other side as well. Obviously she is a storm in the show ring and she'd be even more of an incredible bitch with other titles.

I guess my overall question is, why would someone prefer to keep showing a dog for 5+ years after it has been repeatably proven 65 times, rather than show the dog say until its three and maybe achieve 30 BIS's but have a slew of titles behind their name? Is it all just to be able to say "She won 100 BIS"? Or in the show world, is it more significant than that?
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I guess my overall question is, why would someone prefer to keep showing a dog for 5+ years after it has been repeatably proven 65 times, rather than show the dog say until its three and maybe achieve 30 BIS's but have a slew of titles behind their name? Is it all just to be able to say "She won 100 BIS"? Or in the show world, is it more significant than that?
Like I said they do it for fun. It's like asking why people play a sport or even why someone would do schutzhund after they get the III. Because they enjoy the thrill of winning, they want to be the best there ever was. Some people prefer the show ring. I've done lure coursing, obedience, rally, agility, etc but conformation will always be my favorite. Bragging rights do come into play, it's cool to be able to say your dog is the best, number 1 in the country, etc.

I know you didn't say anything deragatory towards Fifi, I was just trying to answer your question. Sorry if it came across as rude or defensive, it wasn't supposed to.

Eta: Why would it be so surprising for her to get a sch I with her? Just because she's older now?

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Old 12-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I wonder whether the photographer gave permission for that photo to be used here. Posting credit would have been the least you could do, not difficult either since clearly accompanied the image on Facebook
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am very happy for Jocelyn and Fifi to have won the Best-bred-by BIS. It is a huge honor, and I am glad she won it, especially after loosing the breed. I didn't get to see any of the groups, but Fifi looked just as beautiful as she always does in the Dobe judging on Sunday morning.

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Why do they keep showing her when she's already had 65+ BIS? To me, it seems like some self-righteous journey rather than for the dog. I mean, everyone knows what a beautiful, well put together doberman she is, but why do they continue? Really, I just question people's motives.
It's the same reason that someone goes for multiple MACHs in agility, trials multiple times for Sch/IPO III, or continues to compete in obedience after their OTCH or for multiple UDXs. It is far from a self-righteous journey. You love to train and work with your dog don't you? It's the same with Jocelyn and Fifi, they are an amazing team together that has achieved incredible things in their chosen discipline. Fifi absolutely loves the show life. She eats up the attention and the excitement. She loves it all and feeds off of it.

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To the bolded part. She's 4.5 years old and has been brought up in the show ring, not on a schutzhund field. I'm not gonna sit here and say it can't be done because I don't know the dog, but if they really put a well-deserved schutzhund 1 title on the bitch, I will be shocked. (That is an understatement as well)
I wouldn't be shocked, not in the slightest. If you have seen Fifi or any of her litter mates you would see the innate drive in these dogs. Her sister Porsche is an incredibly talented Top 20 Agility dog, and her other sister Guilty is just oozing with talent and enthusiasm in the ring- I would take her in a minute for an agility dog. I also have seen Fifi's mother, and was not surprised at all to learn she had a SchI.

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Personally, I would have much rather seen her get just a few BIS's at the biggest events, and then get some performance titles, such as in schutzhund. That to me says more about the dog rather than trying to beat some national record in show ring.
You just can't get a few BIS at the biggest events- it just doesn't work like that. It takes a lot of dedication and time to get a dog to the top levels and be considered a true contender at shows like Eukanuba and Westminster. Dogs just don't come out of the woodwork and win big shows. I get that you like an all around dog, I like that too, and I have no doubt that Jocelyn will make that happen if that's what Fifi wants to do. Her and sister Star already have their WACs, and Star has her CD. What's wrong with trying to break a record or set one? Going where no one has gone before?

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Most puppy buyers who are willing to wait several months to several years for a particular breeding (and I'm assuming any of Fifi's progeny will be scooped up before they even hit the ground) want to see a slew of titles behind a dog's name, and not all for show. Proving a dog can work is just as important when breeding dobes, is it not?
Honestly- here is my take on that, I don't think most people know what it takes to get some of the titles before and after a dogs name. I see some people rather impressed by basic titles that I can put on the most unsuitable of breeding animals. That's not that they are worthless, far from it, they are just not a measure of breeding stock. On the flip side, I don't think some people understand the YEARS of investment that goes into other titles.

While it is important to prove a dog can work and show, until you have been there and try to do both it is hard to judge someone for not doing it (not saying you are). The shear number of weekends it takes to do both, plus time for training is enormous. I do it, but I have maybe 5 weekends free a year. The breeder/owner/handler to the sire of one of my own dogs trained and handled her dog to his CH and SchIII and obedience and agility titles. She said she wasn't sure if she had it in her to do it again, it was beyond difficult to balance everything.

So yes, I think it is extremely important, but it is hard especially when you are trying to make it the top in your venue(s).

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I guess it's a good thing we all assume that Fifi loves it as much as Jocelyn does. *shrug*
Actually, I would bet Fifi loves it more than Jocelyn does. Jocelyn has to handle the ups and downs of the wins and looses, while in Fifi's mind I am pretty sure she thinks she wins every time. Fifi thrives off the show scene. She truly shines and enjoys the time she spends with Jocelyn in the spotlight. There is no doubt that if you have seen this dog in and out of the ring that she truly has a good life and loves what she is doing. I have seen dogs who hate or ambivalent about conformation shows, sure they earn championships, but they can't make it to the top like Fifi. It take's that gotta want it/have it attitude that makes the dogs truly stand out.

I am not being critical of anyone's opinion, just that until you have been deep inside the show world and spent time along side dogs like Fifi, it can be hard to understand. I get that.

Again, congratulations to Jocelyn & Fifi, they deserved that win.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for that post Agiledobe, it covered pretty much everything I thought while reading this thread.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:07 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I wonder whether the photographer gave permission for that photo to be used here. Posting credit would have been the least you could do, not difficult either since clearly accompanied the image on Facebook
Yes i took the picture from facebook did not mean no harm just a doberman lover allso do not know much about showing I work my dobe in OB here a picture i can post its me Dino an FiFi at the chicago show
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I've wondered this for awhile, but since it was brought up, I have to ask.

Why do they keep showing her when she's already had 65+ BIS? To me, it seems like some self-righteous journey rather than for the dog. I mean, everyone knows what a beautiful, well put together doberman she is, but why do they continue? Really, I just question people's motives.
I guess my question would be "why stop showing?" She's doing well, she's representing the breed well and she's having a great time. Having seen a few dogs get in the ring and hate it, I think it's awesome to see Fifi out there having fun.

Jocelyn bred Fifi's litter. This isn't just a dog she's handling. She's invested in her success and the success of the rest of the litter.

I agree with DobeBug, at nearly 5 I wonder when she will retire to be bred. There's always talk of the amazing bitches that kick nub in the ring and then don't produce, are unable to produce, etc.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I was at ring side and the way Jocelyn shows Fifi really shows off her beautiful neck. Jocelyn knows hows to play to the judge and each and every time that judge was anywhere near them Jocelyn puts everything on the line. It was a joy to see them work together as a team. Jocelyn brought Fifi to the Meet the Breed booth and it was a great opportunity to talk and meet the two of them.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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DoodleDobe,

Even though she has beaten Ch Toledobe's Serengheti's record for three wins at the National there have been other dogs and bitches who have done that--but I don't know that she'll be able to equal or beat Sera's record of 99 all breed Best in Shows. Fifi is 4.5 she's certainly going to be competative for another year or maybe even two--if they plan to breed her most breeders don't like to push that envelope beyond 5 years. I don't remember exactly when Sera was retired to be bred but she was whelped in April of 1994 and by October of 1996 she was top winning dog--all breed in AKC competition. A dog of mine was showing against her puppies by mid 2000 I think so she must have been out of the ring by 1999.

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From the comments made at the Nationals, I was under the impression she was the first to sweep the Nationals 3 times. I stand corrected.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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From the comments made at the Nationals, I was under the impression she was the first to sweep the Nationals 3 times. I stand corrected.
I wonder who else reached that record then? I thought it was just Fifi as well.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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From the comments made at the Nationals, I was under the impression she was the first to sweep the Nationals 3 times. I stand corrected.
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I wonder who else reached that record then? I thought it was just Fifi as well.
I think she's the only one to do it three times in a row. I could be wrong but I believe Borong the Warlock and Brunswigs Cryptonite both won three times. I think there's others as well I just don't know them off the top of my head.

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