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Old 12-19-2012, 01:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think she's the only one to do it three times in a row. I could be wrong but I believe Borong the Warlock and Brunswigs Cryptonite both won three times. I think there's others as well I just don't know them off the top of my head.
THANK YOU!! I was going through all the nationals results! I noticed Cryptonite (not consecutive years), but didn't make it far back enough yet for Borong.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm sure there are some schH dogs who repeatedly title at the 3 level just for bragging rights but there are many other reasons outside of "has 7x schH 3". Which was my question as to if the same type thing applies to the how world.

To the person who said why would I be shocked if she got a schH 1... Have you ever even attended a trial? Or trained and titled a dog in schutzhund? Not trying to be rude but I would never say a particular dog could achieve a championship because I don't know the first thing about it. The fact that she's 5 years old is majority of my reasoning. She's been raised in the show ring not the schutzhund field. And for 5 years she has not been trained for that. If someone gave me a show dog that was 5 years old from accomplished working lines AND two schH 3 parents I still wouldn't try to title a dog that has been brought up as a show dog for that length of time. It's not impossible to title an untrained dog who has no experience in schutzhund, the odds are just stacked extremely out of her favor.

I am also completely taking her drives and temperament out of the question so I'm not sure what all of the defensiveness about her relatives accomplishments and drives is about.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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To the person who said why would I be shocked if she got a schH 1... Have you ever even attended a trial? Or trained and titled a dog in schutzhund? Not trying to be rude but I would never say a particular dog could achieve a championship because I don't know the first thing about it. The fact that she's 5 years old is majority of my reasoning. She's been raised in the show ring not the schutzhund field. And for 5 years she has not been trained for that. If someone gave me a show dog that was 5 years old from accomplished working lines AND two schH 3 parents I still wouldn't try to title a dog that has been brought up as a show dog for that length of time. It's not impossible to title an untrained dog who has no experience in schutzhund, the odds are just stacked extremely out of her favor.
No you just suggest that she should just get best in show at all the biggest events and no where else. I don't think anyone said she could get her schH I. I still don't get how you would be so surprised. It's a dog and handler that you don't know, you have no clue how much training she had. I don't know if she is training her or planning to, but Susan Miller was flying herself and Ava back and forth between here and New Jersey (I think NJ?) for schutzhund training while Ava was being actively specialled by Michelle. I think she also got her 1 on an off weekend of shows. Granted Ava was just being kept as a top 5 Doberman and not top 5 all breeds. It can be done, so for all you know Fifi could be training currently. (Like I said before I don't know any of Jocelyn's plans for her just providing another perspective.)
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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No you just suggest that she should just get best in show at all the biggest events and no where else. I don't think anyone said she could get her schH I. I still don't get how you would be so surprised. It's a dog and handler that you don't know, you have no clue how much training she had. I don't know if she is training her or planning to, but Susan Miller was flying herself and Ava back and forth between here and New Jersey (I think NJ?) for schutzhund training while Ava was being actively specialled by Michelle. I think she also got her 1 on an off weekend of shows. Granted Ava was just being kept as a top 5 Doberman and not top 5 all breeds. It can be done, so for all you know Fifi could be training currently. (Like I said before I don't know any of Jocelyn's plans for her just providing another perspective.)
I'm just basing my accusations on what I know about what it takes to put a real schutzhund 1 on a dog. If their goal is simply to pass a club level trial under an easy judge with low scores, then I'd say it's more attainable. To have what I called a "well-deserved" schutzhund 1, I think its quite unrealistic for a 5 year old dog that has spent enough time in the show ring to acquire 65 BIS's. If she has been training for it outside of the days in the ring, then that also increases her odds.

To the bolded part: Here's the difference. I came on here and asked about that exact thing. 65 seems like an outrageous number (to me) to acquire the 'ranking' to show at the big shows. I assumed as with anything you must be successful at 'x' number of events under 'x' judges and certain competition etc. Whether you needed 65 or say 20-30 is what I was wondering. I also was unsure as to if the shows she has been to recently were large shows that 'mattered' in the grand scheme of things or if she was also racking in the BIS at the smaller events that don't make that significant of an impact for the larger ones, but just to simply increase that number. I personally do not know what is involved, so rather than pretend to, I simply asked.

Once again, not sure why I'm causing such a defensive tone when I nor anyone here have anything into this dog. All I want to know, is this: Is it necessary to have 65 BIS and/or try to get 100+ BIS's in order to be successful at the large competitions? I understand you can not just show up with nothing under your belt, but I am just astonished at that large number and I know there has to be a certain reason why that is.

I've gotten enough answers to have a better picture though.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:29 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I actually think a fair number of show bred dogs could achieve an IPO 1. The shame is that so few will. What truer test of one's breeding program than to prove that your best dogs can achieve high-level titles in multiple venues?
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I actually think a fair number of show bred dogs could achieve an IPO 1. The shame is that so few will. What truer test of one's breeding program than to prove that your best dogs can achieve high-level titles in multiple venues?
I agree. Just want to clarify that I never said the bitch in question did not have the genetic ability to do such. For some reason, it was taken this way despite my explanation as to why I think its highly unlikely.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think she's the only one to do it three times in a row. I could be wrong but I believe Borong the Warlock and Brunswigs Cryptonite both won three times. I think there's others as well I just don't know them off the top of my head.
You are right Mallary--she's the only one who has won three consequetive BOB's at the National.

Borong the Warlock won in 1956, 1957 and 1960.

Brunswigs Cryptonite won in 1990, 1991 and 1994.

I had thought that Sultana von Marienburg had won it three times but I actually looked it up and she only won twice. Several dogs and bitches have won twice but it's been a long time since even that happened. I think that Marienberg's Mary Hartman (who won in 1979 and 1983) was the last one to win twice, then Cryptonite won three times and since then until Fifi won in 2010, 2011 and 2012 they've all been single year wins.

Last edited by dobebug; 12-20-2012 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I guess my question would be "why stop showing?" She's doing well, she's representing the breed well and she's having a great time. Having seen a few dogs get in the ring and hate it, I think it's awesome to see Fifi out there having fun.

Jocelyn bred Fifi's litter. This isn't just a dog she's handling. She's invested in her success and the success of the rest of the litter.
And how often does a "Fifi" come along??? I would ride the ride as long as the dog and I were both having fun. My little Vizsla special is NOTHING compared to Fifi but he's the best I've ever had and we are enjoying our little specials career as long as we both have fun. For me it's an opportunity I might not have with the next dog and didn't pick a top special for my next puppy (although I didn't with Havoc - I just lucked out). It might be a once in a lifetime dog.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:44 AM   #34 (permalink)
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WoW look were this post has gone . I was just happy for FiFi good looking young lady
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:24 AM   #35 (permalink)
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To the bolded part. She's 4.5 years old and has been brought up in the show ring, not on a schutzhund field. I'm not gonna sit here and say it can't be done because I don't know the dog, but if they really put a well-deserved schutzhund 1 title on the bitch, I will be shocked. (That is an understatement as well)
My boy, Ricky Bobby, is a half brother to Fifi and I have met her on several occasions and she has insane drive! She should be able to get a 1 no problem.

Ricky's full sister Ava is the only BIS winning SchH1 dobe right now so the drive is in tne family.
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Old 12-23-2012, 04:50 AM   #36 (permalink)
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This picture was shared on my FB from a Doberman Pincher site. I, in turn, shared it with my friends. I remember seeing Fifi's name on here previously so I felt pretty certain she was a DT person & dog.
Congratulations! Such a beautiful Dober girl! I'm really happy for you!
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I'm just basing my accusations on what I know about what it takes to put a real schutzhund 1 on a dog. If their goal is simply to pass a club level trial under an easy judge with low scores, then I'd say it's more attainable. To have what I called a "well-deserved" schutzhund 1, I think its quite unrealistic for a 5 year old dog that has spent enough time in the show ring to acquire 65 BIS's. If she has been training for it outside of the days in the ring, then that also increases her odds.
You know, this is what I think is the VERY WORST part of competitive dogs. People love to poke and snipe at the people that are actually "DOING IT". The dogs are always accused of getting their show wins under the pet political judges. The working dogs supposedly got their titles under favored, allegedly "easy" judges. And just who are you to be the judge as to whether the titles are "well deserved" or not? There are standards set by the national and international clubs for attaining titles and if the dog meets these standards, they have achieved the award. I also find the people that are so quick to throw stones at the achievers usually have few of their own to talk about. However, if you think it is easy to get an AKC Championship and a Schutzhund title both on a dog, regardless of the scores, go try it some time.

By the way, I do know that Fifi has had some foundation work on the off time and I am told does some fairly impressive bite work.

I hope you all have a Happy Holiday.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Hey how about that picture of me fifi an dino huh good looking group
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