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Old 11-17-2012, 07:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Euro breed in US show

Hi everyone

i was wondering how well the bitch i have attached in the pic will do in an american show ring?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Stunning, dont know anything about showing though so i cant comment on that
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It would help a lot if you had pictures of the bitch set up well in the American style. From what I can see, it looks like she is straight in the front, cow hocked in the rear, has a roman nose, and an ear that cocks over on her head. If she is hand stacked in the American style expected in the the US show ring, her rear may look better and her extremely sloping top line may not slope so much. She does have a striking look to her.

It would be better to see stacked the way she would need to look than speculate as to how she would look.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
It would help a lot if you had pictures of the bitch set up well in the American style.
i dnt have a clue how you do so

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Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
From what I can see, it looks like she is straight in the front, cow hocked in the rear, has a roman nose, and an ear that cocks over on her head.
the roman nose is due to the picture, the rest are valid especialy the front angulation, the cow hocks with a different set up do not appear.

still would reckon that she will have any chance in a US ring?
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i dnt have a clue how you do so
Practice stacking in front of a mirror so you can see what you're doing, below is a picture of Fifi stacked so you can see what American stacking looks like



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Old 11-17-2012, 05:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Practice stacking in front of a mirror so you can see what you're doing, below is a picture of Fifi stacked so you can see what American stacking looks like



The 2010, 2011 and 2012 Doberman Pinscher Club of America's best in specialty show winner BIS BISS GCH Protocol's Veni Vidi Vici WAC aka "The Fifinator"
fifi is looking amazing as always!! oh and I would die for that doberman painting!
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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She is a lovely bitch. It depends who will be showing her. You will discover soon how political show ring is....all around the world.

You may want to start with UDC (United Doberman Club).
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Is there a handler in your area or show breeder that can look at her in person? Pics can be tough and the breed ring is very competitive.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Practice stacking in front of a mirror so you can see what you're doing, below is a picture of Fifi stacked so you can see what American stacking looks like



The 2010, 2011 and 2012 Doberman Pinscher Club of America's best in specialty show winner BIS BISS GCH Protocol's Veni Vidi Vici WAC aka "The Fifinator"
Dear god jocelyn is so lucky to have such an amazing girl
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's very hard to tell from the picture. She appears to be very unbalanced with much more rear angulation than front. She appears straight in front and cowhocked and weak in the rear.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Eek. She resembles a froggy GSD with those hocks and that slope.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with Kans that you can't tell by this picture. Good ideas to have a handler look at her for evaluation. If you can't stack her like they do in the US, then you will need a handler. Those that don't win or can't always say it's the handler. Many breeders handle their own dogs and win so that's not why. Then, the complainers say that the breeder is professional when they show pups out of their dogs or take a dog in for someone. I really hate it when people want to discredit the beautiful AKC Champions. The UKC is a fun place to learn, the AKC is all business and competition very high. Only one dog and one bitch can win and they have to have competition.

Why are you asking this? Are you interested in showing?

Last edited by Ang; 11-18-2012 at 09:19 AM..
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Eek. She resembles a froggy GSD with those hocks and that slope.
That's pretty harsh...
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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That's pretty harsh...
He asked for opinions and that is my opinion. Other people noticed the same things I did. Ok, I could have not put eek in there but others have been much more direct and blunt when people have asked them to critique dobes in the past. If you look at stacked photos of extreme euro GSDs you can see a resemblance in the slope and hocks(http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/uplo...ack%204(1).JPG). Looks like there's much more front to them and something went awry in the hind end. IMO that does not look good and I don't think the AKC breed ring would think so either.

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Old 11-18-2012, 01:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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not well.



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Old 11-18-2012, 02:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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not well.
True. I said "it's hard to tell from the picture", but honestly I was just beating around the bush. Pointless.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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fifi is looking amazing as always!! oh and I would die for that doberman painting!
I'd rather have the painting myself

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Old 11-19-2012, 11:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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He asked for opinions and that is my opinion. Other people noticed the same things I did. Ok, I could have not put eek in there but others have been much more direct and blunt when people have asked them to critique dobes in the past. If you look at stacked photos of extreme euro GSDs you can see a resemblance in the slope and hocks(http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/uplo...ack%204(1).JPG). Looks like there's much more front to them and something went awry in the hind end. IMO that does not look good and I don't think the AKC breed ring would think so either.
I think it's all in how you critique. Providing examples like the others did is much more helpful to most. I know it'd make me really mad for someone to compare my bitch to a GSD in general. And I think you'd be surprised at the number of sloping toplines competing, and apparently doing well, in an AKC ring. Whoops..did I say that out loud?!
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think it's all in how you critique. Providing examples like the others did is much more helpful to most. I know it'd make me really mad for someone to compare my bitch to a GSD in general. And I think you'd be surprised at the number of sloping toplines competing, and apparently doing well, in an AKC ring. Whoops..did I say that out loud?!
Yeah I can see where I came off pretty rude. Its not that a Doberman looks like a GSD, it's just when certain features are off or exaggerated, they start to look less like the standard and more like features of other breeds. Anyway, I'll stop digging myself a hole. I do wish that Prime's top line had a little more of a slope, but not to this extreme. If someone wanted to rip prime apart conformationally, it honestly wouldn't bother me. Ive fostered some pretty ugly dobermans and shepherds that I've loved to pieces, but you see less conformationally correct dogs in rescue of course. Sticks and stones.


Would any of you who show in conformation take this dog in an AKC ring?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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no.

even without any other photos of her.............i would grade her as a pet....too many 'things' are off about her in my eyes.

especially those short tibia/fibula bones............

but as always..that is just MY opinion.

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Last edited by Darkevs; 11-19-2012 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
Yeah I can see where I came off pretty rude. Its not that a Doberman looks like a GSD, it's just when certain features are off or exaggerated, they start to look less like the standard and more like features of other breeds. Anyway, I'll stop digging myself a hole. I do wish that Prime's top line had a little more of a slope, but not to this extreme. If someone wanted to rip prime apart conformationally, it honestly wouldn't bother me. Ive fostered some pretty ugly dobermans and shepherds that I've loved to pieces, but you see less conformationally correct dogs in rescue of course. Sticks and stones.


Would any of you who show in conformation take this dog in an AKC ring?
Your breeder would choke over the bolded comment! That's one of her "pet peeves"

I wouldn't take this dog in the ring. For reasons described above regarding topline, rear angulation, lack of forechest, etc. I don't think it would be competitive with those that match more closely to the defined American standard.
That doesn't mean that an established handler wouldn't have success with the very same dog though! Sad as it may seem I've seen it happen. Not that I'd recommend that someone go that route...but there are many that do.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I would not take this dog into the AKC ring, but the presentation of this fact to the owner should be done kindly. People get their egos wrapped up in their dogs, and it would be natural for someone to get very upset and think that everyone in the Doberman ring is mean and out to get them.

We need more people interested in showing their dogs, so the last thing that we need to do, imo, is alienate them by giving harsh and negative critiques.

Edit: Your breeders would indeed choke if they knew you wanted Prime to have a slope in his topline!
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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And I would agree with them, the sloping topline has the potential to cause problems down the line IMO as mentioned the GSD is an example of how it can creep into absurdity.

I would guess it's a pretty good way of cheating a crappy front and rear angle set up (In it's extreme form not referring to the Fifi bitch).
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guiliver View Post
Hi everyone

i was wondering how well the bitch i have attached in the pic will do in an american show ring?
I am not from US and havent got the foggiest idea how this bitch will do in American ring..but i'll tell you one thing i know...with those features,she wouldn't do well in any European ring!!

Love your dog for what she is,but dont expect to much from her in the ring.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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i have found that those that are truely interested in learning about conformation, showing, etc. will take anything and everything that other breed people have to say..........learn from it, and come back with more and more questions.

yes we ALL know our own dogs are the best no matter what anyone else says.

but to learn.......you have to listen.............to.....EVERYTHING.


ok, i am starting to freak myself out now...........too deep for a monday morning.

I need to listen to chuck more.

iceman......i was thinking the same.
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