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Old 11-10-2012, 04:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Reading threads like this makes me realize that confirmation shows are just not fun.
What fun is it to go in a ring and know it is not an even playing field.
Breed rings are just a necessity to keep breeding stock.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:15 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayshadpets View Post
Reading threads like this makes me realize that confirmation shows are just not fun.
What fun is it to go in a ring and know it is not an even playing field.
Breed rings are just a necessity to keep breeding stock.
I disagree. I think its a blast to take my girl in the ring and have her show her best. She gives me her all, and I love it. I have some friends that I only get to see at shows, and they can help make a day of crappy judging better because I enjoy their company.

Plus, winning wouldn't be nearly as fun if you didn't lose, too.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:01 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kalecho View Post
Really? Where do you show again? I want to move there!!
LOL! My thoughts exactly.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Thanks Pat for this thread! It's nice to see other owner's take on owner-handling their dobes.



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Originally Posted by PearlPower View Post
I have been owner-handling Archie since the beginning. We currently have 7 of his 10 pts with another big weekend coming up. I don't know if it's as political here in Canada as in the US. There have been times when I felt that Archie was the strongest dog but didn't win. Of course, besides the novice owner-handler, he is saddled with those giant floppy ears, lol! Interestingly, most of our pts have come from American judges, rather than Canadian ones & we're batting 0/3 with South American judges. Could that mean that maybe the American judges don't recognize the handlers as often? I had expected the American judges to be more likely to be against his ears than the Canadian ones...
Most of the people showing their dobes in Ontario area have been in the ring for years! Even though many of them are owner handlers, most of them are also dobe breeders and have been handling their stuff for decades! They are very good at making their dogs look good in the ring, just as good or better than the pro all breed handlers in our area. It's tough competition! I know what you mean about the US judges, Journey's got half her points from US judges and Flaire got 7 of her 10 points from US & Int'l judges.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nagaer525 View Post
You can do it MICHELLE!! I have tried to do as much myself and can honestly say it was very discouraging in the beginning between the politics and some of the snarky comments that I overheard. I did not grow up showing dogs and dont have the years of expierence that others do but was something I was interested in and wanted to learn. I joined all the clubs and went to conformation classes, I started with my pet girl before I got Sookie and was able to put her UKC CH on her in one weekend. Then trained Sookie and took her out totally fearless until I was broken down by the comments I heard from others, handlers etc. Maybe at the time I wasnt polished but the fact that I was making an ernst attempt should have amounted to something. I later put Sookie with a few handlers which she then did win either all but 1 pt. So my thoughts on it were I could have lost for FREE! It took quite a bit for me to muster up the courage again, Sookie was sent to her breeder where her daughter showed her and finished her in a few short shows. So I had a good enough dog, it would have just been more benefical for others to give constructive critisisim rather than just critisism. My breeder was very encourging and also told me how well my dog was trained and I should be proud. When Sookie returned I had more time under my belt, started classes and training with Eva and a renewed confidence that I could do this. We did take the George Alston handling clinic that Chelsea from Raindance suggested and I would also suggest for newbies or owner handlers. Sookie and I at our 1st show out together got a BOB over 31 other dobes and multi specials some in the Top 20 also and have earned 10 pts towards her GR CH. I love it I love showing and am going to try to not be discourged and do my best. My job now is my biggest frustration that is is hard to go to the shows so it will take me alot longer to finish the puppy I keep from Sookie and Eva. So I will do as much as I can but it does make more sense in my situation to send them to the breeder whose daughters can take them out to more shows.

Gosh sorry for the long winded paragraph! I just think more of us owner/handler just need to get out there and try do it!! We can!!
I'm so sorry you had that experience. I'm so proud you didn't give up and pushed through and now are in the ring having fun with your girls! Good for you!!!

I've had awesome support and constructive comments from the dobe people in my area when I started with Journey and even now with Flaire. Not saying there aren't some nasties here too, just that I've been lucky not to really have been too subjected to them directly LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatehouse View Post
To both Michelles - You can do it! You wouldn't be nervous if it didn't mean something. I think what happens is you get the skills down with all the practice, and it becomes second nature. I'm sure if you asked, most of those handlers get nervous too :-)

Michelle & Archie, I cannot believe you are at 7 points with being a newby and those cute ears :-) You're so close to finishing him yourself, don't you chicken out on me now!!!!
I agree with Maura!!! Michelle, don't give up, work with Maura on which Judges should appreciate Archie and which ones are a wasted entry. You can do it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
I find politics or ignorance alive and well at the dog shows. A slightly different answer, but I continually see the big name professionals finishing dogs that I could not win a class with, and I would not pay entries on or give house space to.

Just my opinion.
I have seen some specials in the ring and I've wondered.....what the heck....how is that dobe finished???? I've seen what some of the big name pros have finished and it's boggled my brian. I don't care what people say.....money CAN and does buy an AKC CH title! I'm not saying there are not a lot of very nice dobes out their finished by Pros, there are, but there are some head scratchers for sure :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eventermal View Post
I disagree. I think its a blast to take my girl in the ring and have her show her best. She gives me her all, and I love it. I have some friends that I only get to see at shows, and they can help make a day of crappy judging better because I enjoy their company.

Plus, winning wouldn't be nearly as fun if you didn't lose, too.
I agree 100% with this post!! It's exactly my feelings too! There is such a great bunch of people at the shows and heading out for lunch or supper afterwords with them is always fun!

The first time I won with Journey I was giddy with happiness, and having the losses prior to that moment made it that much sweeter!
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayshadpets View Post
Reading threads like this makes me realize that confirmation shows are just not fun.
What fun is it to go in a ring and know it is not an even playing field.
Breed rings are just a necessity to keep breeding stock.
I don't agree with this at all. Not every show is about politics. I see it the most when your going for a major. Singles and double seem to be mostly about who is the best dog.

I have a ton of fun just being there. I just make it about having fun with my dog, who cares about all the rest. I'm not in it for points. I'm in it for keeping my dog active and involved.


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Old 11-11-2012, 11:28 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I am of the same thoughts as you Pat. When I started going to shows in the late 80's early 90's I was in Louisiana. The south was a very tough region and you needed a lot of dogs for a major. When I started to research to get back in, I was seeing names of people who used to show now judging, the economy was starting to decline. I thought the timing was good for owner handlers. We are all aware of the situation or sport is in and need new people. I am fortunate enough to have just enough "disposable" income for entry fees and gas to get to a show, but not enough to afford a handler. I am also grateful for the 2 breeders I have that were willing to give a repeat newbie a chance to owner handle. They both are very supportive and encouraging, and have told me more than once "a good dog presented well will win". I believe that because I have put 7pts so far on my boy. (even when I was just starting and looked like a bungling idiot in the ring).

For those newer OH's that have gotten the looks and "loud whispers" behind their backs, you HAVE to have thick skin. I have gotten the same evil eye and comments, but I am the type of personality who gets pi$$d off rather than discouraged. So it makes me more determined than ever to do this myself "to show them". (I am very stubborn) Don't give up and let a "few bad apples" discourage you, most of the people at the shows have been very polite, nice, and friendly. As for politics, I'm sure it happens but not as often as most assume. I, as well as a few on this forum can attest OWNER HANDLERS CAN AND DO WIN! We are a force not a farce, so get back out there and win.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eventermal View Post
I disagree. I think its a blast to take my girl in the ring and have her show her best. She gives me her all, and I love it. I have some friends that I only get to see at shows, and they can help make a day of crappy judging better because I enjoy their company.

Plus, winning wouldn't be nearly as fun if you didn't lose, too.


Ditto... I really just enjoy going to shows and competing, win or lose. You are right you have to lose to really savor the wins.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMaro View Post
I don't agree with this at all. Not every show is about politics. I see it the most when your going for a major. Singles and double seem to be mostly about who is the best dog.

I have a ton of fun just being there. I just make it about having fun with my dog, who cares about all the rest. I'm not in it for points. I'm in it for keeping my dog active and involved.


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I guess it all depends where you live ive seen my share of politics for singles and doubles sadly. But the greatest accomplishment of all is that day you finish your dog it shows you put in the determination.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeRee View Post
I am of the same thoughts as you Pat. When I started going to shows in the late 80's early 90's I was in Louisiana. The south was a very tough region and you needed a lot of dogs for a major. When I started to research to get back in, I was seeing names of people who used to show now judging, the economy was starting to decline. I thought the timing was good for owner handlers. We are all aware of the situation or sport is in and need new people. I am fortunate enough to have just enough "disposable" income for entry fees and gas to get to a show, but not enough to afford a handler. I am also grateful for the 2 breeders I have that were willing to give a repeat newbie a chance to owner handle. They both are very supportive and encouraging, and have told me more than once "a good dog presented well will win". I believe that because I have put 7pts so far on my boy. (even when I was just starting and looked like a bungling idiot in the ring).

For those newer OH's that have gotten the looks and "loud whispers" behind their backs, you HAVE to have thick skin. I have gotten the same evil eye and comments, but I am the type of personality who gets pi$$d off rather than discouraged. So it makes me more determined than ever to do this myself "to show them". (I am very stubborn) Don't give up and let a "few bad apples" discourage you, most of the people at the shows have been very polite, nice, and friendly. As for politics, I'm sure it happens but not as often as most assume. I, as well as a few on this forum can attest OWNER HANDLERS CAN AND DO WIN! We are a force not a farce, so get back out there and win.
I love this post because it's so true! Y'know, I really get discouraged to know there are breeders out there who require their puppies to be shown by a handler. Someone who wants to get out there and show their own dog isn't allowed? That is dead wrong. I've had great success with my novice owner handler puppy people, I'm so proud of them! Please keep doing what you're doing!
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:40 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I owner-handle any of my own dogs, but I handle far more dogs for other people. Sometimes things get political, sometimes it's crappy judging, and other times it can be hard to judge the difference between the two!

I have beaten out more than a few handlers with their own dogs they have had me take back in for winners. etc. One of the most enlightening things is when I take in a dog who has won a class over a dog I was showing. It is interesting to have a chance to have your hands on the dog. Sometimes I agree with the judge, and other times I do not.

I think it is extremely rewarding to be an owner-handler. It is very hard at times, but some of the wins I am most proud of are the ones I got with my own dogs, and not a client's dog. With your own dog there is far more that you have tied up in that dog. While I have good control over my nerves in the ring, I will always be a little more on edge when I am handling my own dogs. The highs are higher, and the lows are lower! That isn't to say I don't care if a client dog doesn't win, far from it.

I think we often forget just how the caliber of handling is in the doberman ring. It is great to have so many talented people in this breed, but that just means you have to work that much harder to make yourself to be great.

I had an interesting experience when I attended a Siberian specialty with a special. It was a total different atmosphere, and I really enjoyed the change. I was the only one there who wasn't a breeder or owner of Siberians, and there were no pro handlers to speak of. The handlers and the atmosphere was far more laid back, even in Best of Breed. It was different than any Dobe specialty ring I have stepped into! Of course it couldn't have ended any better as I ended up with a Best in Specialty that day.

For any one who wants to do it, go for it. Only practice makes perfect. You will always make mistakes, but the handlers do too Work hard, train and condition your dogs to perfection
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Great thread, Pat!

Everyone has to start somewhere, whether you started in the Juniors ring or you started off even younger in the "family business" or whether you dove right into the "shark tank" as a new found middle aged dog enthusiast like myself! I quickly learned a few things....1.) The dog I started out with was an obvious PET. 2.) I had no idea what I was doing. 3.) I was bound determined to fix number 1 and number 2.

So, 4 years later I have my first owner handled Multi Champion ROM who has 8-10 titles in 3 different venues (depending on what you consider a title) and is currently working on 4-5 more. Every single thing this bitch has done has been owner handled and I wouldn't give that up for the best handler in the world. Sure, it took me 3yrs to finish her and a handler could have done it way faster and there were times when I was discouraged and wanted to use a handler. Thankfully I have good friends who wouldn't let me cave and who encouraged and supported me and who always reminded me that I could do it myself.

Now, I'm working on my 2nd bitch that I co-own and have also put all the points on one of my co-owned Blueticks, she just needs a 3pt Major to finish (Although that ring is not like the Dobe ring). I will admit, it's not always easy, you have to keep track of the "good" judges and the "bad" judges. There are judges who I won't show to and judges I'd travel to show to. I have gone through the tough mental process of thinking I couldn't beat them and then realizing that, wait a minute, YES I CAN!! I know I can beat them, I have beaten them! All of them! And so have many of you and you can't deny that it feels frickin' awesome

So, those of you who are thinking of getting in the ring or have just started getting in the ring...don't be afraid, don't be intimidated and don't let them push you around. Stand your ground, make the judges see you and your dog by making sure you both are prepared and ready to win!
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I owner handle and I really enjoy it (except for the times I have obviously lost due to political crap, then I just suck it up and move on) When I first got Ricky I had a friend tell me "not to embarrass the champion in the ring" Not the most helpful advice LOL

I also had several people tell me I was crazy to owner handle at the nationals, but I did and we made the final cut in Breed, didn't get anything further but for my first conformation dog ever I thought that was pretty good. And as an owner handler you are never going to get as good as the professionals unless you keep on practicing, so that is what I intend to do.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:35 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Rocket's been owner handled since he could be shown. I'm not a horrible handler, but I've discovered that the dog I'm showing has to be a much higher quality than anything a handler has....because a handler, in my area, can finish anything.

I love showing my dog. But the money wasted, politics, and knowledge that a handler can basically finish anything, makes it a place I don't want to go back to. We're currently struggling to do anything, and I have a handler he can go out with....but what's the point? I bought him to show him myself, and for me, I just don't think the money/struggle is worth it. I'd rather spend the money on coursing, agility lessons, etc.

I'll get back into the ring with a different breed.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Thank you for starting this thread, Pat. I am really enjoying the comments.

I too am an owner handler. I have only been showing my puppy for about 6 months now. She's about to turn a year in a few weeks. I just now pointed her from puppy class at 10 months. I have been able to beat professional handlers in the class. Although, at the bigger shows they tend to be afraid to give me the class with my pup and I usually go 2nd in a big class. I believe it is partially due to the fact that they don't know who I am. The other part is due to the fact that I am not as good of a handler. I do feel like every time that I go into the ring with my pup, that I learn or see something new that I didn't realize before. It could be one of the subtilest things about what a handler is doing with their dog. If I wasn't in the ring with them, I wouldn't be seeing and realizing what they are doing to beat my puppy. Some of these details take time to get yourself used to doing.

As for the the snarky comments, I have heard plenty. I wasn't prepared for some of the people that made them to do so. They have only made me stronger in my will to accomplish this goal that I have set for myself.

I have also had many nice comments about my showing. It's basically about how critism is given that makes the difference. If it's done in a kind way, then it helps you learn. If it's done in an underhanded vicious way, then it just makes for bad feelings. I thank the Lord every day for bringing some people into my life that are keeping me from giving up. The ones that I thought would be on my side, are not the people that I turn to now.

I do believe that politics are alive and thriving in the AKC Doberman ring. I do think though that on any given day that something could change or that what you sometimes hear is going to happen, might not. I know I have heard things before shows that were going to happen and they did. I do think that at times a seemingly honest judge can become political and vice versa.

The only thing you can do as a competitor is to not show to the judge that you truly feel are being dishonest. If the judge actually notices that you didn't show to them, you might get a better look at the next time you decide to show to them. I do agree with others that some judges just don't care or know enough to change their ways of deciding who they put up in the ring.

I do believe this next year will be a better one for me and my now 2 puppies. I know who to bring my dogs back to, I know some that I will give a second chance, I know many that I will show to for the first time, and I have learned of a few that I will never show to again.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:39 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Ok here is my back in the AKC ring update!
I did it I went in Thursday and back today. He is the only one in his class "Bred By" But I showed him and I am having a blast. He is showing really well too! So I think I am going to enjoy this. I know most of the handlers and of them but 1 have been just as nice as if I was handing a dog of at ring side. I even got the comment Michelle! I have never seen you show a dog LOL. After the shows today Stunner and I came to work to get a few things finished. OK I was working Stunner was looking for squirrels!
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