Dead head in the ring...

Renic · 09-05-2008, 09:44 AM

hey guys,
I am a bit concerned about Renic. During our weekly practice he is sort of a dead head in the ring. Everynow and then he will work for his bait, which he really does like. But for the most part, especially after the down and back gait, he just stands there like a retard and hangs his head.

I say his name, kiss to him, squeak a toy, show him bait. nothing.

Any suggestions?

Just wanted to add that I have not been doing any on lead practice with him except for our weekly conformation class. If we are in the kitchen and he likes what I am cooking I will say "Step, step, stay" to get him to stand, and then treat him but that is it! No gaiting practice no on lead stacking practice.

Renic · 09-05-2008, 09:52 AM

ok, sorry guys! I kinda forgot that I already posted a similar thread. I just didn't get many replys. I am just kinda worried about this so sorry for the similar questions.

DobeGirl07 · 09-05-2008, 10:03 AM

I would stop show training him, you might be over-doing it. Just have fun with him right now. I have a young male as well and they do get bored EASILY with it. Are you planning on handling him yourself or getting a handler? You need to make showing FUN and have a Party everytime you do anything related to showing. What kind of bait are you using? I would only give treats when you are working him; I cut out treats and now only give when I am working my dogs...they appreciate them more so now. Good luck!

DobeGirl07 · 09-05-2008, 10:04 AM

The only thing I would do now is just maybe gait him a couple times before a show and FREE STACK. Just don't over-train him, you don't want him being robotic. Also puppies are ALLOWED to make mistakes in 6-9 class, judges don't expect puppies to be perfect. Just take it easy and have fun more than anything. Hope that came across so you can understrand

It might also have to do with his pedigree. (I am not sure who your puppy is out of) I was at a show recently & saw a dead head puppy. A particular dog in the puppy's pedigree was "known" as a dead head. I am not experienced with dead head's so I can't be much help there.

You need to find something to bring out his personality. Be really happy with him. Take him and do new things. EVERYTHING needs to be happy happy happy!

**Megs** · 09-05-2008, 11:24 AM

I agree with DobeGirl. He's so young and training (all training) needs to be fun and playful. Renic has lots of time for "serious" show training. Play with him, work him up a bit and keep an upbeat attitude so that he sees you're not serious, and you're just having fun.

I live next door to a park with a couple of enclosed tennis courts (not entirely enclosed, but you get the idea). Now that summer is coming to a close, they're not in use very often, so it's my plan to use one half of the court as a "practice ring" this fall/winter because my house and yard isn't really suitable. So for the past few days, I've just had him off-leash in there, playing with the ball, slow jogging around the "ring" and having him follow me, very casual off-lead "gaiting" (if you could even call it that), where I make him follow on my left side and watch the cookie (I'll up the value of the bait when we start to get a little more serious). If I catch him in anything remotely close to a free stack at anytime I tell him "Good Stand," even if he has no idea. I just praise the heck out of him and tell him how awesome he is just for paying attention to me! We just spend about 5-10 minutes doing a few fun activites and he LOVES it.

To be honest with you though, I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I do know that Thakoon is having fun and enjoying working with me. I'm not sure how much he's actually learning, but at the very least I hope he's learning to like showing! We start real handling classes next week

DobeGirl07 · 09-05-2008, 12:12 PM

Well stated Megs.

Lexxsmom · 09-05-2008, 12:57 PM

Sounds like great advice...

even though i don't know much about showing, i do know that some dogs just don't like it.

kalora · 09-05-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renic

hey guys,
I am a bit concerned about Renic. During our weekly practice he is sort of a dead head in the ring. Everynow and then he will work for his bait, which he really does like. But for the most part, especially after the down and back gait, he just stands there like a retard and hangs his head.

I say his name, kiss to him, squeak a toy, show him bait. nothing.

Any suggestions?

Just wanted to add that I have not been doing any on lead practice with him except for our weekly conformation class. If we are in the kitchen and he likes what I am cooking I will say "Step, step, stay" to get him to stand, and then treat him but that is it! No gaiting practice no on lead stacking practice.

I think you are getting some excellent advice in my experience the puppies and adults pick up allot from us and how we are feeling right through the leash so to speak. So if your worried about him being showy and keeping his ears up he's going why is mom or dad worried. I tell all my puppy owners when your training your show puppy just keep them happy and keep the training short b/c the have the attention span of nat at times. Especially the boys. Try actually throwing the bait right at him so it gets him on the nose a little. He will think " Hey what's that ?" After a few pieces have got him on the nose he will figure out the game. Another trick is play "get it" put him on the leash and toss the bait right out of his reach. Tell him "get it", "get it" in an excitied but soft voice. When he reacts and wants it let him go get. If he is ignoring you in class offer the bait to the dog right next to him(of course with the owner's permission) do that several times in a row till he thinks hey what's going on here. Training should always be fun the boys are needy. I have only had two dead heads in ring both we males and they made their handlers work their butts off. They are both at the rianbow bridge now. But I loved those boys dearly. And they did not give the dead head show ring temperment to any of their offspring. What I have learned from experiences with them was I babied them allot. In all honesty way to much. It made them wonderful companions but really bad show dogs. I learned a valuable lesson from those boys. Show dogs need to keep their spirits up and bosted allot of YEAH GOOD BOY- not where's mommy's baby boy !LOL Hope this help.

Julie W · 09-05-2008, 10:30 PM

Some gread advice already....but honestly, some dogs simply have no show attitude no matter what. I know, I live with one.

kalora · 09-06-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie W

Some gread advice already....but honestly, some dogs simply have no show attitude no matter what. I know, I live with one.

I agree Julie you are correct, there are those few out there that just hate the show ring and will always be dead heads. But if you still want to show a dead head and the dog/bitch is an excellent example of the breed I would go for it. Attitude is only part of the picture. A beautiful bitch is a beautiful bitch even if she isn't showy. She will still have something to offer the breed and deserves her chance to be a champion. A male with a nice front, good layback and beautiful headpiece can get away with a little less attitude. I would take that any day over male with a mediocre front that showed well.

In all honesty sometime judges overlook a poor example of the breed b/c it's showy. In my opinion those judges do not know the breed standard. I have been shocked time and time again by some of the dogs/bitches that handlers have been able to finish b/c they were super showy. When I get to see them up front and get my hands on them I can't believe they are champions. The response I got allot was "hey their really showy" or "yeah I know Estelle but you got to see him/her show". So what? A true good example of the breed is more than a show machine that stares at bait. Judges put too much value on the showmanship when they should be looking at the whole picture. A good breeder judge always knows a good dog when they see it. And those are judges you want to go to. There are many judges that say "now show me them on their own". They want to see the dog/bitch stand on their own and not have the front's or rear's manipulated. And than again there are those judges that in all honesty couldn't care less except who is at the other end of lead showing them the dog. LOL

When I show one of mine that is not co-operating I just emphasis the positive. If the dog is stacking great for me but not free baiting, I just quickly stack and show off the stack and work the ears myself. And I pray the judge in the ring can see the quality of the dogs in the ring and can make an educated decision. Not that I always have the best dog/bitch in the ring I just want my dog/bitch to be judged fairly and not over looked b/c he/she was distracted by the big fuzzy dog in the ring next to us.

There are also some dogs/bitches that just don't show for certain people including mom/dad but hand that lead to someone else and the whole story changes. Sometimes it's just the wrong combination of dog/bitch and handler/owner in the ring.

I guess what I am trying to say is neither one of you should discount your dogs/bitches just b/c their not show machines. Some of the smartest ones just expect to be entertained a little more. Handlers have to work harder to show those so they generally don't like showing them, but that's okay you’re paying for their skills let them use them.

I will apologize in advance for my typo's & spelling is not my thing! LOL