Greg M

Hi DT folks,

I have been waiting to get a natural Dobermann for about 6 months now.

The breeder I had matched with is very reputable and she was willing to leave a dog natural for me. Unfortunately, things have changed and I am now back in search mode.

Does anyone have references for good European breeders? I am looking for a medium-drive, stable female puppy. She would likely have some European show dog bloodlines.

Thanks,

Greg

Sam1491

That is a list of most to all the Euro breeders in the U.S.
Bell'Lavaro, Feverhaus, for sure have show lines, Cara breeds both euro and american show line dogs, Kansa uses show lines and also mixes in american show lines.

Sorry things didn't work out for you Welcome back nontheless

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dragonflyz

Home - Distinguished Dobermans Rescue, Inc. has a few all natural pups up for adoption.....

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RedFawnRising

^^^You can put a big pink ribbon on Hannah, wrap her up, and send her to me, 'k thanx!

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StarlightDobe

She sounds like the perfect little girl! And what a sweet face!

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sonterra2002

3/4 of that list will NOT let puppies to natural. And at least half the list will produce dogs waaaayyyy to much drive for this persons request.

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Asmit

What was the reasoning behind requiring European and natural?

Drive wise I guess you need euro show lines, but the reputable euro show line breeders do not tend to let natural dogs go.

Why not rescue if your looking for a medium drive pet? I guess I just don't fully understand the natural thing. I mean sonterra for example prefers naturals but she also does not want to be banned from certain competitions. If you have a happy healthy pet why does it need to be natural? The combination you are asking for is just not really a very high chance of happening.

ataro

Many countries in Eastern Europe (like Poland etc.) just introduced a new cropping and docking ban, so if natural is what you want, you're in luck. If you want to import however, I recommend coming here in person and picking the pup you want to make sure you get exactly what you want and avoid any misunderstandings. It will be well worth the cost of the flight in the end, trust me.

greenkouki

This is a great suggestion! Why not rescue a puppy in need of a home???

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ajp240

Chalmar Dobermans bred an all natural litter in 2011, I believe. Chalmar Dobermans Not sure when they will breed again though. Plus, they would likely be too high drive. Sounds like a tough combo. You could more easily find docked with natural ears though.

Sam1491

Good to know, and I also never said they'd be what he needed, but still a stepping stone of at least some breeders to talk to who would be more likely to know people that have what he's looking for.

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Asmit

Lol, considering the people I have spoken to who own any of these little natural darlings, they are far from suitable to the OP's request!!

Now is they wanted a small, agile, quick, energetic, drivey ball of fury in a doberman suit, it might be right on! Gamy is a little spit fire herself.

I second your last question. I know more breeders willing to leave ears natural. The breeder's I know will not do just 'one dog' out of the litter natural because with working dogs, you really need to be able to properly evaluate and chose the temperament correct for each household. This isn't possible at 2 days old when they dock tails!

ajp240

Oh yeah, I love Gamy! And you're right, those pups would be too much for most of us, ha!

Dobs4ever

The natural Doberman is cropped and docked as that is the standard. To do otherwise according to the standard is a deviation from the norm.

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ajp240

I don't think this is a thread for debate, there are plenty of those out there.

Amelia_

Best of luck in your search

Looking for breeders in the UK could be an option for you perhaps? We have a lot of show breeders with very amicable pet temperaments. Plus rabies free and we all speak the same language.

Just let me know if you'd like some names to research.

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greenkouki

I think the point dobes4ever was trying to make is that most breeders won't sell an uncropped undocked puppy. I recall the OP having a previous thread on this topic so he must be having much difficulty... chances are he will probably have to adopt a rescue dog like the one above or sacrifice his preference and get a "modified" dog from a reputable breeder.

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sonterra2002

I got an all natural dobe from an American breeder. I did not have to sacrifice squat. So it is absolutely possible. But the snide, condescending comment from a moderator is great.

And just to clarify... Regardless of international competition, I will never own another c/d dog (dobe or otherwise). I will also never own a dog without its neccessary front dewclaws. So many say they fell in love with the breed for its superficial looks (like falling for the popular blond cheer leader or football star). I fell in love with the dobes mind ( the smart engineer gets me every time).

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River

I don't have any recommendations, other than to say you can find medium drive dogs with stable temperaments in rescue who still have ears and tails. I'd label Griff as medium to high drive, and his temperament is dead on perfect for a Dobe. He's cropped and docked, but I chose him for temperament, not for ears and tail looks. He was dumped at the shelter during the housing crash, so his family likely got foreclosed on and had to give up the dog. Just a guess, they ditched him in the lobby and walked out, but it's likely.

I just checked the website out and Chalmar looks awesome. Gamy is beautiful and she has her Sch III to boot. Going to add them to my potential breeder list for the future. OP, if you do wind up with a puppy, remember to post pics! We love puppy pics.

RedFawnRising

Oh good gawd.

The day they start popping out of their Mamas, having already had in utero surgery for their ears and tails, you'll be approaching a "natural" C/D Doberman.

Defending your personal choice for C/D is fine. For the sake of others who prefer their Dobermans that way, attempt to do so with at least a tiny bit of credibility.

(just using your post as a springboard)

You know, I'm pretty sure that America can do better, since we are the land of freedom and choice. Right?

I mean, I think I'm pretty good with brownie points when it comes to rescue karma.

I've loved a lot of misbegotten Dobermans, wondered at their mysterious pasts, tried to fix their psychic bruises and heal their physical injuries, along the way.

They have most certainly given back tenfold what I gave them.

I am weary of saying goodbye early, to ill-bred Dobermans with so many health issues. Someday, maybe, I'd like to at least roll the dice and see if I can up my odds on sharing life with a healthy, well-bred Doberman.

I believe it is just as ethical to support a good breeder, as to rescue.

It's a pitiful shame those of us who want our pups to have their functional dewclaws, their tails, and their ears...are pretty much constantly reduced to the tired old chant: You'll probably just have to find one in rescue.

Someday, I'd like a well-bred, all natural agility prospect.

I hope I will be able to find a breeder who will celebrate my choice in that--perhaps it will even be their philosophy too. Who can know?

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Sam1491

I think they are out there, they just are "hiding", admitedly the natural dobe is not really all the well received here in the states on a broad scale so, they may be laying low avoiding the bs that can accompany the c/d v. natural debate...hopefully it gets more popular, the natural babies I worked with where beautiful and it's a whole different kind of expressive, i'd love one of each some day.

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Rosemary

Oh, RFR and Sam, I want something even rarer than a well bred completely natural Dobe. I want a well bred, completely natural blue Dobe. My odds of getting a dog like that are about a good as my odds of living on the moon.....

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Sam1491

Yes and no I think your want for a short crop will be more troublesome! lol

Don't you ever just think, it shouldn't be this hard to find a dog?!

Stay strong OP, it took me three years to find a breeder at all for my other non dobe breed and ik the rewards will be well worth it

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Rosemary

Actually, if I get a cropped dog, I do prefer a short crop. Even what most people would call a "medium" crop is longer than I refer, and I really don't like a long show crop. Think more along the lines of the dogs from the 1930's. Yeah, I know, dream on.

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Dobs4ever

(quote) I find uncropped dogs to be more offensive than a faulty conformation. Why? Due to the fact that not cropping and docking a dog is an intentional act against the American Doberman standard. IT DID NOT JUST HAPPEN! These people purposefully chose to ignore the standard for their own notoriety. It is a slap in the face of every breeder who has ever cropped puppies in order to maintain standards and preserve our breed. No one should be more upset than the breeders themselves, as these people parade themselves as the new, feel-good generation while destroying a century of selective breeding. Every time someone exhibits a dog for a purpose other than what the standard dictates they do it for themselves and I find this, despicable.(quote)

This is a quote I read the other day and no it was not me from a long time very involved breeder - but I do have to agree. A standard is a standard and to do less is like a slap in the face of that breed. In the end for those who have their head in the sand it is the beginning of the end for any breed. ITs a new wave, a new fad and we can only hope people come to there senses before it is too late and we LOOSE that choice you all are so famous for throwing out there. In every country Choice has led to NO CHOICE and c/d bans.

Is that really what we wont because once we go there there will be no coming back.

To add - be sure to ask those breeder who place uncropped if you get a big discount since they save the cost or do they really just line their pockets at your expense.

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