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Old 01-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Looking for advice

Okay so here's the scoop...

My puppy is scheduled to have her ears cropped on Wednesday (1/23/13). Yesterday we had her pre-crop appointment. The vet does a nice job cropping ears, and is talented in what he does, however he does discourage doing the "cosmetic" surgeries.

THIN: During our appointment, he noted that Deja's ears are thin. I have been told that this is good in that it means her ears aren't set floppy, but I've also been told that its bad in that they dont have much cartilage to support the weight of the ear.

AGE: Deja will be 11 or 12 weeks tomorrow (Sunday). I've read conflicting information regarding this as well. Most people have said they suggest cropping before 12 weeks but earlier is better. I've also read in a few places where some breeders crop all their puppies at 12 weeks.

STYLE: I originally wanted a medium/tall crop. Due to her thin ears and her age, the vet and I discussed this and he felt that a shorter medium crop would better suit her and still look nice with her face. I agreed with him so she would not have a tall crop. We looked at alot of photos and decided on a nice curve to her ear, and a more pointed tip as he feels too much flesh at the tip could be too heavy.

So here is my question... with the information I've provided, how do you think her ears may respond to proper posting? I intend to be diligent about the posting, and I've gotten all the necessary supplies for doing it right. I do not want a cropped/flopped ears though. I understand there are no guarantees, but what are people's opinions?
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Maybe it might be better to just leave them natural, since you have so many concerns?
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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My boy has thin ear cartilage. I felt his ears stood fairly easily and quickly with the backer rod method.

My signature picture is my boy at 5 months. He has the Medium/pet crop and they were done when he was 10 weeks old.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Its not really that I have so many concerns. I'm okay with the length, but many posts on here state that the age of the puppy at the time of the crop depends largely on the ear leather, crop style, and vet experience. That is why I included that information. I am okay with doing a medium crop, and my vet does have experience cropping ears and does a nice job. But I hear of people talk about the ear leathers, but never stating what is optimal....
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouleaux View Post
My boy has thin ear cartilage. I felt his ears stood fairly easily and quickly with the backer rod method.

My signature picture is my boy at 5 months. He has the Medium/pet crop and they were done when he was 10 weeks old.
Thank you that helps alot!! I plan to use the backer rod method as well and have spend many hours watching and rewatching different videos on youtube. I found one that I feel comfortable with and I'm confident I can duplicate it.

By the way, your boy is very handsome!
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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At 9 weeks, his ears went from your typical floppy ears to these:


Semi standing. You can tell that they were thin, but the base was holding them upwards.

His ears seemed longer in the interim (siggy pic)

Pretty much today:



Just think things through. Feel it out but the sooner the better. They look a bit wider in the picture than they really are, but you get the idea. This crop suits my boy, where as your crop vet may suggest more/less bell, etc.

And thank you

and for the thin ears, Rou had terrible pockets, so I suggest watching the pocket correction taping method on youtube- I crammed a few cotton balls behind the posts to correct those... you may want to just do this to be proactive

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Old 01-19-2013, 11:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thank you, I'll definately do that!!

I cant rush the crop any sooner, The vet was out of town all last week, and his first surgical appointment was Wed so I scheduled surgery at the same time that I made the preop appointment.

here is a pic of Deja's ears

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine2011 View Post
But I hear of people talk about the ear leathers, but never stating what is optimal....

That's because it doesn't matter. I've had thick, thin, and in between. What matters is the quality of your posting. Some may stand quicker than others. You just have to see it thru to the end and not get too upset if they don't look perfect everytime you take them down. They will get there in the end 9x out of 10.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That's because it doesn't matter. I've had thick, thin, and in between. What matters is the quality of your posting. Some may stand quicker than others. You just have to see it thru to the end and not get too upset if they don't look perfect everytime you take them down. They will get there in the end 9x out of 10.
Thank you for this post. I was told once regarding the difference in ear leathers, and it sort of made sense and stuck in my mind.

Now is it all based on your patience and posting method or does some of it have to do with the crop style and/or do genetics play a roll?
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine2011 View Post
Thank you, I'll definately do that!!

I cant rush the crop any sooner, The vet was out of town all last week, and his first surgical appointment was Wed so I scheduled surgery at the same time that I made the preop appointment.

here is a pic of Deja's ears
Do you know her vWD status pre procedure?

And she is just too cute! Good luck with the crop!
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy43 View Post
That's because it doesn't matter. I've had thick, thin, and in between. What matters is the quality of your posting. Some may stand quicker than others. You just have to see it thru to the end and not get too upset if they don't look perfect everytime you take them down. They will get there in the end 9x out of 10.
I'll second that--personally I think thinner ears are easier to get up but I've had everything and while helping other people with puppies have seen everything. Posting correctly and consistently counts for more than the ear texture which often changes as the puppy grows in any case.

Some of the crop styles stand more easily than others and I disagree with the folk who believe that more bell makes an ear easier to get up. The very clean show crops where a wedge is removed at the base and the ear is curved a little more but has virtually no bell is harder to post but easier to get up. Same idea as trying to stand a piece of paper on edge--you can't do it with a flat sheet but curve it and it will stand.

And of course genetics counts--but with very few exceptions proper posting will get an ear up dispite style of crop or genetic issues.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thank you so much for these responses. I feel much more confident about her crop going well. I understand that it will take a lot of time and patience to make them stand. I'm ready to commit to them because the months it takes to get them standing, will be rewarded in the years I have her through her lifetime.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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A beautiful crop, to some extent, is in the eye of the beholder.

Do you feel you've seen enough really quality crops, to assess the artistic skill and talent of this vet?

As you said, you'll have to look at the results for a long time.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Surgery is tomorrow... I'm nervous, anxious, excited, and optimistic!!
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ears are cropped, she is doing well, eating fine, and acting like a normal 12 week old puppy. Sutures come out next wednesday. Vet wants me to take the cones out on Monday and leave them out until they remove sutures. I hate to let them fall for two days.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ears are cropped, she is doing well, eating fine, and acting like a normal 12 week old puppy. Sutures come out next wednesday. Vet wants me to take the cones out on Monday and leave them out until they remove sutures. I hate to let them fall for two days.
Flopping for a couple of days won't hurt anything. They will be just fine.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Bruce's were down for around 5 days after the sutures came out. They weren't fully healed yet, so they flopped for a bit before we could post. His ears are turning out fantastic, I'm pretty sure we are close to being finished (he's 17 weeks). Flopping for a bit won't hurt them.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for those responses, it sure does help.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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take your time with posting you have all the time in the world
make sure his ears heal proper and all stitches come out
dont rush into it first thing first is to make sure their all healed up properly!!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Her ears were cropped Wednesday last week, Thursday one post came out, so I reposted it which seemed to have gone quite well. On Saturday, both ears had a foul odor and she would cry in pain at the slightest bump of her posts.

I removed both posts, and both ears had infection along the incisions. I did not repost, and have left the ears open since Saturday.... its now Wednesday. There is no infection, her ears are still sore, but sutures come out today and will be reposted at the vet. (all future posts will be done by me)

I'm hoping this has not hampered her ears in any way on standing, but I wasnt going to let her suffer with infection.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Her ears were cropped Wednesday last week, Thursday one post came out, so I reposted it which seemed to have gone quite well. On Saturday, both ears had a foul odor and she would cry in pain at the slightest bump of her posts.

I removed both posts, and both ears had infection along the incisions. I did not repost, and have left the ears open since Saturday.... its now Wednesday. There is no infection, her ears are still sore, but sutures come out today and will be reposted at the vet. (all future posts will be done by me)

I'm hoping this has not hampered her ears in any way on standing, but I wasnt going to let her suffer with infection.
This is why it is recommended that ears are NOT posted until they are healed fully and the stitches are out. Posting a set of freshly cropped ears is just asking for an infection to set in. After cropping, while the ears heal, it is recommended that the ears be glued onto a Styrofoam cup, a block of foam, or just left to hang on their own. This allows the ears to breathe. Only when the ears are fulled healed and stitches are out does the actual posting process begin. A good ear cropping vet would know this.

I am glad you did not re-post the ears. At this point now, you need to make sure there is no longer an infection in the cut edge of the ear. Hopefully when the stitches come out today the vet will look at it and make sure that the infection is gone, or if needed prescribe some antibiotics.

ETA: If her ears are still sore, and the fact that they are not 100% healed if the stitches are still in, I would not repost her ears yet.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thank you so much for that post. I put some medical foam tape on the inside of her ears, but away from the incision edge. The foam tape is keeping her ears from folding fully and allowing the cartilage to crease, yet not affecting the edges of her ears at all. She does not appear to be bothered by its presence and I can easily see, access, and treat the incision.

The infection is gone, but there are still scabs. I believe I will talk to the vet today and let him know that I do not want to repost today, I'd rather let them heal fully and in the long run, I dont want my puppy to be horrified every time her ears are handled. I want her to heal fully, then start the posting, I just wanted to make sure that this wasnt a bad idea as far as them standing in the future.

I am patient, I am willing to post as long as necessary after they are healed. I do feel as though I was misled by this vet and his experience (NOT happy), I feel thankful for the people on this forum and I feel that I'm getting better, more complete advise and information here.

BTW, since she doesn't like me touching the edges, I've found that using Bactine is a great alternative to Neosporin. Its a water based spray rather than petroleum based ointment, has 2.5% Lidocaine to ease pain, and an effective antibiotic to promote healing.

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Old 01-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine2011 View Post
Thank you so much for that post. I put some medical foam tape on the inside of her ears, but away from the incision edge. The infection is gone, but there are still scabs. I believe I will talk to the vet today and let him know that I do not want to repost today, I'd rather let them heal fully and in the long run, I dont want my puppy to be horrified every time her ears are handled. I want her to heal fully, then start the posting, I just wanted to make sure that this wasnt a bad idea as far as them standing in the future.

I am patient, I am willing to post as long as necessary after they are healed.
I'd also be mentioning to the vet that they shouldn't have been posted or covered in the first place....

I'd also find a new vet, anyone who covers fresh incisions like that isn't competent enough to treat my pet in my mind.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd also find a new vet, anyone who covers fresh incisions like that isn't competent enough to treat my pet in my mind.
Thanks, I agree with you but thankfully he is not my regular vet, I was told by others that he does a good job and he's one of the few vets in my state that does ear crops. Future Dobe pups will NOT be taken to him, and I would most likely have to travel out of state.

My regular vet used to crop ears, he used the Mole Foam posting method but he's older now and said he prefers to not do ears anymore. Its been around 10 years since he's done ear cropping. Thankfully, I have a great relationship with him and he's available for all my other veterinary needs.
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