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Old 01-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone He had another episode (although nowhere near as bad as last night), when he got up at 8. We went into our vet, and this time she was able to pinpoint exactly where the pain is coming from, his elbow (I really thought it was around that area, as he would lick briefly at it now and then, very subtle but enough for me to notice). She still didn't think an xray was needed immediately, as he is weight bearing, and only has brief episodes of pain.

He is on strict rest and metacam until monday (this is tons of fun with a 14 week old puppy...lol). If he's not much better by then he will go for a series of xrays. She is inclined to think either just a strain of some kind (since we know he didn't have an actual accident as he was right beside me on the leash when he first yelped) or possibly even pano. There were a few other things we talked about (like HOD), but since he has no fever, and is otherwise ok she doesn't think so. So, that's where we're at right now.

Thanks for all the well wishes. I hope he is over it soon, as he has his first real doggy playdate scheduled for 2 weeks from now with my best friend's 2 labs; and he is supposed to start puppy classes in a couple of weeks too.

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Old 01-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Oh jeez. Poor Bruce! I bet it's going to be insanely difficult to keep him calm, but hopefully he won't push himself harder than he can handle. Lots of good vibes to him...I'm sure he'll be just fine in no time!

Silly puppies.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Bruce! Quit hitting your funny bone. It's not funny to your Mama!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I hope Bruce starts feeling better. Can i just say how much i ADORE the name Bruce! Seriously, one of the best dog names ever. It is my default name when I can't remember someone's name lol.
PLUS Bruce Wayne...BATMAN!! Who is more awesome and badass than BATMAN!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:31 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Oh jeez. Poor Bruce! I bet it's going to be insanely difficult to keep him calm, but hopefully he won't push himself harder than he can handle. Lots of good vibes to him...I'm sure he'll be just fine in no time!

Silly puppies.
It's been not so bad today, he has been extra sucky and just wanting to cuddle (ie lay on my head) with mom. He is acting like a cranky toddler though, he will growl and bite at his blankets and is a little mouthy, but I know he's just frustrated with not being able to play.

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Bruce! Quit hitting your funny bone. It's not funny to your Mama!
Lol! It really isn't! I feel so bad for the poor guy.

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I hope Bruce starts feeling better. Can i just say how much i ADORE the name Bruce! Seriously, one of the best dog names ever. It is my default name when I can't remember someone's name lol.
PLUS Bruce Wayne...BATMAN!! Who is more awesome and badass than BATMAN!
Haha, thanks My son named him, he (my son) is fascinated with ocean animals, and his favorite movie is Finding Nemo. Bruce is the shark in Nemo. We thought it was perfect for a Dobe, they look scary but really aren't. Just like Bruce in Nemo. Plus, you're very right, nothing more awesome than Batman . He actually has a batman coat on route from Meadowcat right now.


As for Bruce right now, he's still whiny and obviously uncomfortable, but no screaming since this mornings episode. He can't have his daily dose of metacam for another hour and a half, so I think it's just that it's starting to wear off.

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Old 01-04-2013, 07:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I had run-ins with pano. My vet said you can dx with pressure on the long bone - it is swelling of the marrow inside the bone causing pressure. So pressure usually in the middle of the long bone should elicit a pain response - pano is not usually an elbow thing.

I also use Bromelain and Borage Oil to help:

From HealthDobes Yahoo Group:
Bromelain

Bromelain is an enzyme from pineapples. It can help reduce inflammation when given away from meals. Suggested dosage is 250 mg per 25 lbs of body weight, twice daily. It's action can also be enhanced for certain conditions such as panosteitis and rheumatoid arthritis, if given with Borage Oil http://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=19> . Borage oil dosage would be 500 mg per 50 lbs of body weight twice daily, in between meals with the Bromelain (ProBrom) http://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=21> . (These links no longer work for some reason).
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I had run-ins with pano. My vet said you can dx with pressure on the long bone - it is swelling of the marrow inside the bone causing pressure. So pressure usually in the middle of the long bone should elicit a pain response - pano is not usually an elbow thing.

I also use Bromelain and Borage Oil to help:

From HealthDobes Yahoo Group:
Bromelain

Bromelain is an enzyme from pineapples. It can help reduce inflammation when given away from meals. Suggested dosage is 250 mg per 25 lbs of body weight, twice daily. It's action can also be enhanced for certain conditions such as panosteitis and rheumatoid arthritis, if given with Borage Oil http://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=19> . Borage oil dosage would be 500 mg per 50 lbs of body weight twice daily, in between meals with the Bromelain (ProBrom) http://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=21> . (These links no longer work for some reason).
Very interesting, thank you for this info! My vet is wonderful, but was the first to admit that in her 30 yrs she hasn't seen a ton of pano cases. It certainly wasn't her first thought when examining Bruce, just one of the things we discussed. One thing I love about her is how open she is to discuss all possibilities. Thanks again, I'm going to read a bit more about the Bromelain.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:42 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The hubby just sent me this pic, he took it a couple nights ago when I was redoing Bruce's ears but I didn't know. It cracks me up, so I thought I would share with all you wonderful people sending him good thoughts

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Old 01-04-2013, 09:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
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or possibly even pano.
zingg!

Hope he feels better on Metacam. I am going to gather that he is getting it orally? That stuff, although honey-based, smells like funky B.O.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Bruce Banner the Hulk


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Old 01-04-2013, 09:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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zingg!

Hope he feels better on Metacam. I am going to gather that he is getting it orally? That stuff, although honey-based, smells like funky B.O.
See below from my original post pano was actually one of my first thoughts, although I'm still not totally convinced;

Oh and yeah, oral metacam stinks. Bruce likes it though lol.


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We talked briefly about pano, but I got the feeling she didn't think that is it. Even after all my years as a tech pano isn't something I've got a ton of experience with, so I'm not sure whether I agree or not with her.


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Bruce Banner the Hulk


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It's funny that you caught that. My best friend has 2 labs, one is named Banner. Her (comic loving) hubby called me super excited one night after we got Bruce "our dogs, together...BRUCE BANNER!!" lol

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Old 01-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #37 (permalink)
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zingg!

Hope he feels better on Metacam. I am going to gather that he is getting it orally? That stuff, although honey-based, smells like funky B.O.
OMG, it stinks. I always feel bad shoving it down whoever I'm having to shove it down.

I have a rabbit rescue friend who grosses me out by insisting it smells (and is the consistency of) another, er, organic thing associated with humans.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I have a rabbit rescue friend who grosses me out by insisting it smells (and is the consistency of) another, er, organic thing associated with humans.
Thanks for that, RFR. :p I hadn't made that association yet, but I have now.

I don't want to jinx anything, but Bruce is almost himself this morning. A very slight limp, you can tell he is a little hesitant to fully use the leg, but no whining or crying. Trying to keep him quiet is a nightmare now lol.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I love the name Bruce because I love Bruce Springsteen

Glad the little dude is better today!

So, very slightly off topic, but does that Epsom Salt soak thing work if a human has a Doberman related thing (.....hair) embedded in their foot? I've never heard anything about that before, and I'm intrigued and hopeful.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I love the name Bruce because I love Bruce Springsteen

Glad the little dude is better today!

So, very slightly off topic, but does that Epsom Salt soak thing work if a human has a Doberman related thing (.....hair) embedded in their foot? I've never heard anything about that before, and I'm intrigued and hopeful.
You mean you have also had dobe hairs in your foot? They are so painful. I have stopped in the middle of teaching a class, whipped off my shoes, and found/removed the culprit. They seem to have a mind of their own and just work their way into the toughest areas of your foot (where the skin actually cracks a bit is a favored spot).
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I love the name Bruce because I love Bruce Springsteen

Glad the little dude is better today!

So, very slightly off topic, but does that Epsom Salt soak thing work if a human has a Doberman related thing (.....hair) embedded in their foot? I've never heard anything about that before, and I'm intrigued and hopeful.
Epsom salt soaks (or hot compresses with Epsom salt in the water) work awesome for drawing out things in the skin. Give it a try It will likely take more than once though, and make the sure water is hot (bearable of course you don't want to burn yourself).
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #42 (permalink)
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You mean you have also had dobe hairs in your foot? They are so painful. I have stopped in the middle of teaching a class, whipped off my shoes, and found/removed the culprit. They seem to have a mind of their own and just work their way into the toughest areas of your foot (where the skin actually cracks a bit is a favored spot).

Yeah, I've currently got one in my big toe and one in the arch, just in front of my heel. They don't "work out" the way a splinter would, because when you squeeze, they're not solid enough to make their way to the entry wound (or at least this ones don't). I mean, I guess I ask for it, going barefoot in the house, but seriously? Two in one week?

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Epsom salt soaks (or hot compresses with Epsom salt in the water) work awesome for drawing out things in the skin. Give it a try It will likely take more than once though, and make the sure water is hot (bearable of course you don't want to burn yourself).
Awesome, thanks. I'll be trying that tonight or tomorrow methinks. It's funny that you mention not burning myself, our water heater (heat on demand) does get the water very hot, and I scalded my hand slightly yesterday doing dishes during a random temperature spike.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Ugh, I would like some opinions everyone. His leg is greatly improved (no whining, and almost no limp), but in the last 2 hrs he has peed 3 times, twice with a tiny bit of blood in it at the end (snow makes it easy to see this ). I am very inclined to think from the metacam, but I called my vet who does not think so since he has only had 2 doses. I haven't noticed him drinking more than normal, and the 3 times he did pee they were not dribbles, but normal volumes of urine (no straining, no licking, no signs of UTI). Not to mention he only just finished his round of Clavaseptin on thursday so I would highly doubt UTI (my vet did agree with me there).

He is fine otherwise, and of course if I continue to notice anything off about his urination habits I will be collecting a sample first thing monday morning to take in.

I really do not want to give him the metacam tonight, I just feel like it could be related to that, and knowing the scary side effects of NSAIDs I'm just leery. Thoughts from anyone? I really do love our vet. She is great, but I do disagree about it possibly being from the metacam, and I really don't feel that he needs it tonight since he is so improved.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Ugh, I would like some opinions everyone. His leg is greatly improved (no whining, and almost no limp), but in the last 2 hrs he has peed 3 times, twice with a tiny bit of blood in it at the end (snow makes it easy to see this ). I am very inclined to think from the metacam, but I called my vet who does not think so since he has only had 2 doses. I haven't noticed him drinking more than normal, and the 3 times he did pee they were not dribbles, but normal volumes of urine (no straining, no licking, no signs of UTI). Not to mention he only just finished his round of Clavaseptin on thursday so I would highly doubt UTI (my vet did agree with me there).

He is fine otherwise, and of course if I continue to notice anything off about his urination habits I will be collecting a sample first thing monday morning to take in.

I really do not want to give him the metacam tonight, I just feel like it could be related to that, and knowing the scary side effects of NSAIDs I'm just leery. Thoughts from anyone? I really do love our vet. She is great, but I do disagree about it possibly being from the metacam, and I really don't feel that he needs it tonight since he is so improved.
I have used a lot of Metacam without incident BUT that doesn't mean it is not affecting your dog. If you don't feel good with it, then don't use it. I have found that it doesn't work for bone problems - it should reduce swelling and help bruising, but I had no luck with Lana when she tried to rip off her right front leg and leave it in the fence. Time was her healer, the metacam had no effect at all. I did do a lot of physical massage, looking for the sore point like I would on myself then massaging deep into the bone there to stimulate blood flow. She still comes to me for a bone rub - I thought she would scream and complain, but not so.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
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You mean you have also had dobe hairs in your foot? They are so painful. I have stopped in the middle of teaching a class, whipped off my shoes, and found/removed the culprit. They seem to have a mind of their own and just work their way into the toughest areas of your foot (where the skin actually cracks a bit is a favored spot).
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Yeah, I've currently got one in my big toe and one in the arch, just in front of my heel. They don't "work out" the way a splinter would, because when you squeeze, they're not solid enough to make their way to the entry wound (or at least this ones don't). I mean, I guess I ask for it, going barefoot in the house, but seriously? Two in one week?

I've gotten cat hairs in my foot before. Ouch. If you can actually find them, you can try pulling them out with tweezers. That's what's worked for me. The hard part is finding the little suckers.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Ugh, I would like some opinions everyone. His leg is greatly improved (no whining, and almost no limp), but in the last 2 hrs he has peed 3 times, twice with a tiny bit of blood in it at the end (snow makes it easy to see this ). I am very inclined to think from the metacam, but I called my vet who does not think so since he has only had 2 doses. I haven't noticed him drinking more than normal, and the 3 times he did pee they were not dribbles, but normal volumes of urine (no straining, no licking, no signs of UTI). Not to mention he only just finished his round of Clavaseptin on thursday so I would highly doubt UTI (my vet did agree with me there).

He is fine otherwise, and of course if I continue to notice anything off about his urination habits I will be collecting a sample first thing monday morning to take in.

I really do not want to give him the metacam tonight, I just feel like it could be related to that, and knowing the scary side effects of NSAIDs I'm just leery. Thoughts from anyone? I really do love our vet. She is great, but I do disagree about it possibly being from the metacam, and I really don't feel that he needs it tonight since he is so improved.
Trust your gut.

I'd discontinue the metacam.

I sort of do the "what if/worst case" protocol, in my head, once I get a gut feeling like that.

The worst that could happen if you discontinue the metacam? A bit of increased pain and possible need to try something else.

The worst that could happen if it is the metacam that's the issue? Hell, renal failure. And all sorts of nasties on the continuum of NSAID side effects.

My experience with Metacam is mixed. Most of the time, I think it's a wonderful medicine. But, I have known a few sensitive animals over the years who really crashed and burned on it.

Just, again, trust your gut.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:27 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Trust your gut.

I'd discontinue the metacam.

I sort of do the "what if/worst case" protocol, in my head, once I get a gut feeling like that.

The worst that could happen if you discontinue the metacam? A bit of increased pain and possible need to try something else.

The worst that could happen if it is the metacam that's the issue? Hell, renal failure. And all sorts of nasties on the continuum of NSAID side effects.

My experience with Metacam is mixed. Most of the time, I think it's a wonderful medicine. But, I have known a few sensitive animals over the years who really crashed and burned on it.

Just, again, trust your gut.
Another short iPad reply, sorry. That's what I did, no metacam last night. No pain, no limping, and the increased urinating has also stopped (no more blood either). He is totally his crazy, normal self today.

I've used metacam many times without an issue, but I also have mixed feelings about.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I'd check a blood panel and UA if it were me. I'm leary of NSAIDs anyway since I work with only cats at work and renal failure can be one small dose of Metacam away. But even though its much safer for dogs, I'd like to know what his renal values and USG are before continuing on it. PU/PD and blood in the urine make me inclined to agree with you about it being from the Metacam.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:02 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I hope bruce is feeling better soon. It sounds like you have a ton of good advice on here.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:31 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I'd check a blood panel and UA if it were me. I'm leary of NSAIDs anyway since I work with only cats at work and renal failure can be one small dose of Metacam away. But even though its much safer for dogs, I'd like to know what his renal values and USG are before continuing on it. PU/PD and blood in the urine make me inclined to agree with you about it being from the Metacam.
He's finished with it anyway (well it was prescribed for 3-5 days, but I stopped it since he's not in pain anymore). He had the one injectable dose at the emerg clinic, and one oral dose at home. He won't be getting anymore. My main reason for being leary of metacam is also because of cats and metacam (my clinic was small and large animal, mosty dogs, cats, horses and cows though). There are absolutely no symptoms of anything today, I am definitely wondering if he was slightly sensitive to the metacam.

I know it's not impossible (I've seen it happen), but I highly doubt a UTI as he just finished clavaseptin, but stranger things could happen. I'm keeping a close eye on him, and letting my vet know that the weird symptoms stopped after the last dose of metacam "wore off". Any indication of something "off" at all, and there will be further investigation.


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I hope bruce is feeling better soon. It sounds like you have a ton of good advice on here.
Thanks, he is back to his crazy, little landshark ways.
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