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Old 01-01-2013, 11:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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PLEASE HELP - potty training

Okay, so I've had Kevin for a little over a month now and he WILL NOT POTTY TRAIN!! He comes on command (by and far), he sits, he's learning "down" really well, I've broken his digging issue, we play regularly, he comes every where with me and is 90% of the time very very well behaved. He has only had one or two public accidents so far, but at home....TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY!

I let him out on regular intervals between 30 and 60 minutes or so unless he is asleep. As soon as he wakes up, I take him out. When he is done playing with Bill or Steve, I put him out. If he heads toward the door, I put him out. If he starts to sniff around, he goes out. I always see him pee and normally catching him pooping. I put him out with Bill and Steve who know to only go in a set spot in the yard, and I also put him out alone since he tends to just play with them instead of doing his business. It never fails though, he will come back in and pee on the floor and poop. He tries to hide the poop piles by doing it behind the pool table or behind the dining table or in my master bed and bathroom (only when I forget to shut the door). But peeing....he will look dead at me and just start; no sniffing, no warning, just BAM he's going. And of course he has a habit of walking when he pees.

At first I tried to do the things I have read both online and in books about housebreaking....clean it up in front of them and then take the soiled cloth and the dog outside together and place it in the yard where they are supposed to go. Soon they will associate their mess with the propper spot in the yard...yeah...NOT KEVIN! I praise him immensely when he goes outside whether we are at home or not. I lavish with verbal praise and I also treat him. He gets really excited when he knows I saw him go and always runs over to me to get hugs and love. So he has to get that outside is good. When its inside and I catch him, I tell him "bad potty" and he gets no praise at all, so he has to know thats not as happy as when he does it outside, but he isnt making the connection.

I have tried crating him, but my sanity cannot handle it. From the first night I had him I tried crating him and he will not allow it. I had a nice little den put together for him with a doggy bed, a chew toy, blankets, a towel from his litter mates and mom, and a tshirt with my family's scent on it, and a blanket covering most of the kennel so it den-like. He SCREAMED, not whined, not barked, he literally SCREAMED all night. I put the kennel next to my bed with my fingers in it so he could lick me and smell me directly (as the breeder suggested)....yeah he didnt care, he just screamed! We got no sleep that night or the ones that followed, so the crate at night was done away with. He slept on my bed with us which was great bc he couldnt jump down and he would sleep through the night. Well now he can jump down (cant get back up, but he can jump down without us noticing and potty on the floor).

I tried crating during the day to get him used to it in a more comfortable setting, but alas, he didnt care. He pee'd EVERYWHERE!! Soaked his bed, his blankets, his food bowl, it was everywhere. I couldnt believe it. Since then, I have tried to feed him in his kennel so he starts to associate it with happiness, but as soon as he realizes that his door is closed, he flips out. I have sat for over 2 hours with him just screaming non stop. Telling him "No" doesnt work, calling his name doesnt distract him at all either. As soon as I let him out bc Im at my wits end, he comes out, then goes RIGHT BACK IN! I close the door again, he takes a few bites, turns and sees the door is shut and he flips again! Then I stopped locking it, but just closing the door and he will push it open, come out, turn back in, and eat more. He doesnt mind being in there, so long as he isnt confined. I even put the boxers up so he doesnt feel like he's locked up while they are roaming around in front of him.

I did pee pads, but those just became a toy for him to shred. Another thing that I dont get and drives me nuts is, when I put him outside, when he is ready to come back in he jumps on the glass door and barks his behind off until I come to let him in, but when he needs to go out...he'd rather just go instead of letting me know he needs out. My boxers never did any of this! They were both house broke really early and very quickly. I did the clean up and take it out with them thing and they got it within two weeks. They've had accidents since then of course, but it was my fault, not theirs. They finally started to let me know when they needed out too. Bill will whine at the door but Steve will just walk around and pant a lot. At 5 years old they both can hold their bladders and bowels for a long time, so they are always let out within a period of time that works well for them.

With Kevin though, I just dont know what to do. Ive done what Ive done in the past with my other dogs. Ive done what the breeder suggested, what books and the internet have said too, and nothing is getting through to him. My hardwood floors are starting to warp and stink bc of him. The vet said "he's a puppy, youre doing it right, just stay the course and he will get it." He starts his puppy class on Thursday so hopefully they will lend advice, but I figured I'd come here and ask for help too.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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oh boy. everything you did wrong with the crate, we did wrong. i have no answers, but i can commiserate. we eventually lined an entire room with pee pads and locked him in there when we weren't able to watch him.

don't be like us. play crate games with him. make that crate AWESOME. here's some more info for you to ponder: Crate Games, it is not just for breakfast anymore. Susan Garrett’s Dog Training Blog and Crate Games | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog

good luck. i'm certain someone else who's had a lot more experience will have better suggestions.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I know there will be others that have more advice than I do but I few things I do know is this - it sounds like your guy has separation anxiety, so you need to work on that. Solving that will help with the crating and the crying to come inside. I would steam your floors, the slightest smell will only confuse him. If it were me he would stay attached to me via leash until he is trained. Also, how small is his crate compared to his size? Sounds like it may be too big. A dog shouldn't pee where they sleep, however if your not allowing him to sleep in his crate then maybe that's why he is urinating in it.

Good luck!


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Old 01-02-2013, 06:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The problem is you are giving in. You HAVE to have more patience than the dog or you will never get anywhere with his training. If you can't handle his screaming, put the crate somewhere where you are not, close the door, and let him screaming till he falls asleep. Puppies are going to scream, mine did. I didn't sleep for 3 days. Actually that's a lie I didn't sleep for almost 2 weeks. Puppies don't let you sleep
I put his crate in the front room, went to bed, got up every few hours to let him out to potty, back to the crate and bed.

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Old 01-02-2013, 07:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You can't give in. Take the blankets, bowls and toys out of the crate if he is urinating on them. Rouleaux was TERRIBLE in his crate, but I would just sleep through it at night- it sounds terrible but he was fine! Just didn't want to be crated.This went on for a good 2-3 weeks. When he was out with me during the day, I would throw his toys into the crate for him to retrieve and leave the crate door open at all times so he knew he was not going to be locked in.

I am 22, still live at home and it took a few days for my mother to realize I was not killing my dog, but making him give in and get used to the crate. He is training you! Do no give into it. It sounds worse than it is and it is VITAL that he be used to the crate!

I would Youtube Crate Games and see what fun things you can do with the crate to get your pup used to it.

This is what puppies do!
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Crate training is an essential tool in potty training. It gives your puppy a place to be when you are unable to watch him where he will not urinate. I agree with other advice given here for some tough love. I was very blessed to have a breeder who crate trained her babies before they came home so I did not have to deal with the screaming.

One thing I learned the hard way was that no matter how well I thought I could watch my puppy while he had free roam, I couldn't. It sounds like your baby had a lot of freedom to roam by himself. Potty training only happened once I started tethering him to wherever I was or placing him in his crate when I was busy. It is a pain to watch them 24/7 but make it your life for a week and you will see a huge difference. We now have a 8 month old boy who goes to the door every time he needs out! It is totally worth the inconvenience. Best of luck!


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Old 01-02-2013, 07:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Where I got Rou from, they were already pottying outside- he still to this day- will trickle even a little if we are outside and he is on empty. Pups were also being crated- though I was told the reds were little toughies when it came to crating... no lie there.

I also taught Rou how to ring a bell when he needed to go out. I am on the second floor. He has gotten wise and rings it when he wants to just go downstairs. So when he rings it, I throw on the leash and we go outside REGARDLESS. Consistency is key.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalamitysHuckleberry View Post
I know there will be others that have more advice than I do but I few things I do know is this - it sounds like your guy has separation anxiety, so you need to work on that. Solving that will help with the crating and the crying to come inside. I would steam your floors, the slightest smell will only confuse him. If it were me he would stay attached to me via leash until he is trained. Also, how small is his crate compared to his size? Sounds like it may be too big. A dog shouldn't pee where they sleep, however if your not allowing him to sleep in his crate then maybe that's why he is urinating in it.

Good luck!


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Steve, my 5 year old female boxer, suffers from separation anxiety but even she will go into the kennel and be quiet so long as she can see me. Bill and Steve were crated as puppies because my ex-wife and I both worked so they were crated together all day until we got home. Now Steve has to be around Bill to be calm when Im not home. When I take Bill to the vet, I have to take Steve too or she will destroy the house. Kevin may have a touch of it too. His case is a bit different than Bill and Steve because Im training him as a service dog, so he never gets left at the house in a crate, he is always with me. Since he doesnt really render me any service right now, I suppose I could suspend his training as far as coming with me everything until he potty trains and leave him in a crate while Im gone for a week or two.

His crate is appropriate for his size. I mean its a large crate (accommodates both my 65lb boxers just fine), but I have the divider in place to make it a tighter fit for Kevin. Are you saying I should keep him leashed to me at all times, even when we are home?

Thanks for the advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
The problem is you are giving in. You HAVE to have more patience than the dog or you will never get anywhere with his training. If you can't handle his screaming, put the crate somewhere where you are not, close the door, and let him screaming till he falls asleep. Puppies are going to scream, mine did. I didn't sleep for 3 days. Actually that's a lie I didn't sleep for almost 2 weeks. Puppies don't let you sleep
I put his crate in the front room, went to bed, got up every few hours to let him out to potty, back to the crate and bed.

Leerburg | How To Housebreak A Puppy or Older Dog
I know that in the end he is training me. I try so hard to wait until he is quiet to give him what he wants so that he will start to associate that THAT is what will win him reward. Two hours is a long time for anyone to deal with a constantly screaming puppy. The way my house is shaped doesnt really give me a lot of distance from him to ease my nerves though. My house is shaped like an L so even if he is in my office (the top of the vertical line of the L) and Im in my master bed (the furthest tip of the horizontal line of the L), we arent that far from each other and he's LOUD! lol. I will start that though. Ill play games and really work on the positive reinforcement during the day and make him sleep in there at night.
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Originally Posted by PJH View Post
Crate training is an essential tool in potty training. It gives your puppy a place to be when you are unable to watch him where he will not urinate. I agree with other advice given here for some tough love. I was very blessed to have a breeder who crate trained her babies before they came home so I did not have to deal with the screaming.

One thing I learned the hard way was that no matter how well I thought I could watch my puppy while he had free roam, I couldn't. It sounds like your baby had a lot of freedom to roam by himself. Potty training only happened once I started tethering him to wherever I was or placing him in his crate when I was busy. It is a pain to watch them 24/7 but make it your life for a week and you will see a huge difference. We now have a 8 month old boy who goes to the door every time he needs out! It is totally worth the inconvenience. Best of luck!


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My breeder did crates after their ears were cropped. each puppy gets its own crate with its own belongings so it becomes accustomed to it. She said they all did great but would whine sometimes. I took her same method and implemented it here the night I brought him home but the screaming was too much bear. I tried every night for the first week before I gave up on making him sleep in it. I kept it open though and would lay him down in it with the door open and me laying there with him, until he'd fall asleep. As soon as Id move though, he'd wake up and come out. I can try the tether idea and just keep him bound directly to me and see what happens. Thanks for the advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouleaux View Post
Where I got Rou from, they were already pottying outside- he still to this day- will trickle even a little if we are outside and he is on empty. Pups were also being crated- though I was told the reds were little toughies when it came to crating... no lie there.

I also taught Rou how to ring a bell when he needed to go out. I am on the second floor. He has gotten wise and rings it when he wants to just go downstairs. So when he rings it, I throw on the leash and we go outside REGARDLESS. Consistency is key.
How did you teach him to ring the bell? Like I said, Kevin will make it well known to me and the neighborhood when he is ready to come inside, but never that he wants to go outside.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouleaux View Post

I also taught Rou how to ring a bell when he needed to go out. I am on the second floor. He has gotten wise and rings it when he wants to just go downstairs. So when he rings it, I throw on the leash and we go outside REGARDLESS. Consistency is key.
I've bell trained Bruce too, and same thing. He will ring the bell just so he can go out and sniff the neighbors Christmas tree at the end of their driveway lol. He still has the odd accident (usually just pee when he is playing and distracted, but that's my fault for not catching it earlier), but overall he has learned bell means go out, and outside is where we pee and poop. Every time he rings it, we go out even if we just came in. Consistency really is key.

I throw a big, over the top "YAAAY, you peed outside, you are the most fantastic, smartest dog in the whole world" party every time he goes, and he loves it lol. Training treats are also ALWAYS in my coat pocket, every time he goes he gets a treat. He never just goes out in the backyard without me, I am always going out with him so that I can praise and treat him when he goes.

ETA to train him to ring the bell, I hung bells from the doorknob. To start I would hit them with his paw before we went out, then he started getting curious about them and would nose them, or paw them so out we went. He eventually learned bell means outside.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How old is he? 10.5 weeks? I'd still take him out every 20 minutes. he shouldn't have the opportunity to pee inside. Management is critical at this point. It may take a bit longer for him to catch on since he has been going inside.

If god forbid he ever has an ER and is at the vet overnight, he will need to be crated. Do you want him stressed out and sick? I'd get working on it ASAP myself. You never know when an incident will arise. A friend's 4 month old BC puppy just started seizing out of the blue last weekend. Poor little guy was at the ER vet SCREAMING on top of everything because he wasn't crate trained.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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:::UPDATE:::

So Ive taken some of the advice you guys have given me and it seems to be paying off. Since I started this thread he has had a few accidents, but there has been a drastic reduction. I keep him confined to only where I am via baby gates or leash. I still let him sleep in the bed with me, but I leash him to me so he cant get off the bed. I have started with crate games and we play them every day usually for about 10-20 minutes (thats about how long he will train before he gets bored) 2 or 3 times a day. He is getting to the point now where I can say "kennel" and he will bolt into the crate, turn and sit. I can close the door, lock it, walk away, come back, unlock and open the door and he stays sitting waiting for a release. Tonight was a HUGE milestone in that training. I fed him, as I always do, in the kennel. usually he goes in, starts to eat then sees I shut the door and he freaks out. Tonight he went in, ate, saw I shut the door, finished eating, then politely sat there waiting to be let out. Im not sure how much time elapsed because I was talking with my gf on the couch with our backs to the kennel, but when I looked back, the bowl was empty and he was just looking at me like "Daddy, I finished and Im being a good boy, Im ready when you are." I opened the door and he sat there frozen! It was great. I cleaned off his nose (he gets the wet mix in everywhere) gave him treats and tons of love! Im working him up to the point where I can leave him in there over night. I just dont want to shock him into it to where he freaks out. This method with the crate games seems to be working very very well. Thanks again for the advice and comments!
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
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House breaking 101 :
If you take them out on about a 6 ft leash it helps keep them focused tell them go potty ,hurry up or what ever words you want to use just use the same words each time. Stand in one spot let them go all around you till they find the spot then Praise like it is the greatest thing you ever saw. If they do not go in about 20 minutes go back in and crate them or tie them to you them go back out in about 30 minutes.pups need to go out after naps,playing, eating & drinking 1st thing in the morning last thing at night depending on the age of the pup you may need to take them out at night too. Always use a pet urine enzyme to clean up all traces of urine or feces you can use a black light to find all traces. It takes about 3-6 months of contestant training to house break a pup the more accidents they have the longer it takes. Hang a bell on the door you go out you ring it until the pup gets the idea how to ring it yes sometimes they ring it to go look at a squirrel but its a phase they go though you just have to go though it with them. Do not forget to praise each time they go to reinforce the potty training. If you are consistent you will also have a pup/dog that will go potty on command comes in handy when it rains,snow, is icy, on a trip at night . People will think you are a amazing trainer too. Good Luck with your new baby.
I'm 63 years old have been training puppies & dogs this way for years and years this was told to me by a dog show person it works you just have to be diligent and keep it up for about 3-4 months sometimes longer. If the pup is tied to you he cannot sneak off and do his business behind anything. Crate training is a must for a Doberman their nickname is Dobergoat many Doberman s have died from eating things they should not socks,underwear,Rugs,bedding,toys,drywall all kinds of things. If you figure out why the pup/dog is sick you can sometimes get them to the vet they sometimes can have surgery to remove the item. $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 for the surgery sometimes the intestines can die from lack of blood sometimes the vet can remove some. A dog can only live with the loss of so much intestines sometimes they just have to put the pup-dog to sleep anyway. Hate to be so up front about things but you have to go though puppy hood then go though teenager phase so best to crate when you cannot watch them. My Buddy was not loose in the house until he was 2 years and 4 months old rather be safe than sorry. Good Luck
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Repsol12 View Post
Steve, my 5 year old female boxer, suffers from separation anxiety but even she will go into the kennel and be quiet so long as she can see me. Bill and Steve were crated as puppies because my ex-wife and I both worked so they were crated together all day until we got home. Now Steve has to be around Bill to be calm when Im not home. When I take Bill to the vet, I have to take Steve too or she will destroy the house. Kevin may have a touch of it too. His case is a bit different than Bill and Steve because Im training him as a service dog, so he never gets left at the house in a crate, he is always with me. Since he doesnt really render me any service right now, I suppose I could suspend his training as far as coming with me everything until he potty trains and leave him in a crate while Im gone for a week or two.
This is called littermate syndrome and why it is recommended to not raise two puppies at the same time.
If you do raise two puppies, they need to be kept seperate (sleep, kenneled, eat, walked, play time) so they learn to become their own dog and not rely on the other one to function.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
This is called littermate syndrome and why it is recommended to not raise two puppies at the same time.
If you do raise two puppies, they need to be kept seperate (sleep, kenneled, eat, walked, play time) so they learn to become their own dog and not rely on the other one to function.
Yeah Ive learned that lesson and wont do it again. My ex-wife and I felt bad having a puppy that ended up having to be left alone all the time, so we bought Steve to keep him company. They are good dogs, but yeah, Steve definitely has separation anxiety and the littermate issue.
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