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Old 12-25-2012, 07:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Looking for pup

Female, black and rust, under $1000 parents must have AKC paperwork, puppies are optional on papers. Pet quality is fine, will be fixed. East Texas or reasonable distance to drive- if you are expecting a litter that works too. Please let me know mom & dad health stats, age, weight, and coat condition in addition to any other misc. health problems, due date or when they will be ready, location and price. Thank you


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Old 12-25-2012, 07:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hello and welcome! Would you be open to a rescue pup or even an older puppy from a rescue? I only mention that because you probably will not find a puppy from a good quality breeder who does all the required health test and all the things that should be required to breed for under $1K. Dobermans are prone to many health issues so unless you are ready to take on the potential byb issues and actually want to support their ways I would save up some more money and get a puppy from a reputable breeder or check out some rescues. Stick around here and you will find your way!
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Please do consider rescue. You will not find a well bred puppy in Texas (I don't think in the country either) for under $1000.

Also, many breeders (who you'll generally need to approach yourself) will have many questions for you as well. With my boy's breeder we emailed once or twice (including me sending in a puppy application) and then spoke with each other, in person, for about two hours before we price and/or if I would be getting a puppy from her at all was discussed. From what I know of many breeders (though, not all, I'm no expert) they will want to see that you ca re enough to do at least some of the research. Reputable breeders who are doing things right and breeding to better the breed don't sell their puppies to the first person with cash.

Reputable breeders - for new folks
Cost of having a litter of puppies....
Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder (for boxers but it's still pretty relevant)
Whats it cost to breed?
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Right- however if they don't meet my requirements there is no point in me having them out to meet myself, my vet and Ahren or trading conversation if I'm not interested in their pup on my end- I don't like my time wasted and try not to waste other people's. I do believe its possible to get a good doberman for under 1k who's parents had health testing- granted if I was in a rush I would agree to expect to pay about half of what I did for Ahren for a pet grade doberman (one without show lines or care of parents titles) since time is on my side I firmly believe one will come around for 1k or less- naturally that doesn't include ears or any puppy vet maintenance strictly the puppy. And as I stated I don't mind if the puppy doesn't come with papers or breeding rights- she will be fixed regardless. There are a few good breeders with $1200 puppies all health testing ect (with show quality lines and parents) I just don't have time to fly out and get the puppy and they don't want to fly with the puppy- I would hate to make it fly alone :-/ I find it hard to believe you can't get a decent doberman for under a grand- with just the requirements female, parents akc, black and rust, health test..


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Old 12-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Rescues won't accept my "farm" as I refuse to chain link 90 acres when my only neighbor is the vet... No I don't want an older dog I've had several rescue dobermans and this is a gift, I want a good mentally sound, no problems female doberman. Rescues are sweet but I do not have the time to work with a puppy to fix whatever someone else screwed up. I can afford to go get another from ahrens breeder- I have no desire to spend that much money on a dog right now when it's not needed there are plenty of pups for $250-$300 akc and meet my requirements except some if the test I can have run myself- if I can't find one for under a grand from a recommended kennel before valentines day.


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Old 12-25-2012, 10:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I find it hard to believe you can't get a decent doberman for under a grand- with just the requirements female, parents akc, black and rust, health test..
I wish you luck, but I am betting you will be hard pressed to find a pup meeting your requirements in your price range. Testing is quite expensive and the majority of the testing needs to be done annually. In addition, the bitch owner usually has a stud fee to pay in addition to the costs of raising the litter, and things like tail docking, dew claw removal, ear cropping, vaccinations, etc . The reality is that you are looking at more like $1500-$2000, that is of course, if you go with a reputable breeder. No 'good' breeder is going to discount the price of a puppy because you don't care about registration papers. Reputable breeders will sell pet puppies with limited registration (pup must be spayed/neutered), ear crop, current vaxs, worming, etc.

In your price range, your best bet is probably going to be Rescue. Once again good luck and happy holidays!
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I find it hard to believe you can't get a decent doberman for under a grand-
You can, but it will not be a well-bred puppy and will be from a backyard breeder who doesn't take health, conformation or longevity into consideration because they are too busy breeding anything with 4 legs to make a profit.

You seem like a smart guy, PhD username guy... Don't you want a family member who will be around for (hopefully) 10+ years have a solid pedigree of health and longevity? When you buy from a BYB, you are basically taking a gamble. We're not taking about a simple vet visit and general labwork. We're talking cardiac testing, hips and elbows, thyroid, vWD, temperament testing, etc. All these things cost a breeder a lot of money, and are done to ensure the line doesn't have any serious defects that will be passed down to your puppy. Personally, I don't wouldn't want to half-ass it and cheap out only to have a dog with temperament problems or die of cardio disease at the age of 4.

Buying from a good breeder doesn't mean you're getting a show dog. There are pet quality dogs in every good breeder's litter (I have one myself, click on my sig for my YouTube channel for an example of a pet quality dog from a good breeder). It just means you will get a well-bred animal whose line has been proven conformationally sound and is as healthy as possible given the long list of problems associated with this breed.

I personally don't know of any good breeders in Texas, though I'm sure there are some, so its unlikely you'll need to worry about hopping a plane or anything like that. You could start with this thread: Recommended Breeders!, and also visit the DPCA site for a listing of breeders in your state.

Good luck, and please stick around. There's a wealth of information here
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Right- however if they don't meet my requirements there is no point in me having them out to meet myself, my vet and Ahren or trading conversation if I'm not interested in their pup on my end- I don't like my time wasted and try not to waste other people's.
What about that attitude will make them want to waste their time talking to you?

I do believe its possible to get a good doberman for under 1k who's parents had health testing- granted if I was in a rush I would agree to expect to pay about half of what I did for Ahren for a pet grade doberman (one without show lines or care of parents titles) since time is on my side I firmly believe one will come around for 1k or less- naturally that doesn't include ears or any puppy vet maintenance strictly the puppy.
You might find someone who has done minimal testing for that amount, but from fully tested and titled parents, well, maybe, but not as likely. Also, a good show-line breeder won't let them go uncropped and the ears are included in the price of the puppy, not tacked on as an "extra". A working-line breeder might be more willing to let a pup go un-cropped, but that will likely be with the expectation that the dog will stay uncropped.

And as I stated I don't mind if the puppy doesn't come with papers or breeding rights- she will be fixed regardless.
Then definitely look into getting a rescue.

There are a few good breeders with $1200 puppies all health testing ect (with show quality lines and parents) I just don't have time to fly out and get the puppy and they don't want to fly with the puppy- I would hate to make it fly alone :-/ I find it hard to believe you can't get a decent doberman for under a grand- with just the requirements female, parents akc, black and rust, health test..
A breeder might think you don't have time to devote to the puppy if you can't take a day or two off to go get your puppy.


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Old 12-25-2012, 10:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Rescues are sweet but I do not have the time to work with a puppy to fix whatever someone else screwed up.
you realize you'll have to spend a lot of time working with a puppy regardless of the source, right? even if the dog is from a breeder, you'll have to devote a *lot* of time to training the dog properly.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Are we still talking about puppies here or is OP confusing puppies with burgers..


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Old 12-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If u plan to crop the puppy u will pay another four to five hundred for that. Why not pay the $1500 to $2000 up front and u will get a well pews puppy who's parents are health tested and the ears will be cropped and healed before u bring her home.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Without taking into consideration the cost of showing the bitch or the cost of some of the on-going testing, each puppy from my last litter of 8 personally cost me over $1000 and that does not take into account any of my time, extra gas, electricity, and the impact on my family. So any puppy under $1000 means that corners were cut.

I ask people if they think that they deserve to have a well bred puppy that was bred by someone who truly cares about the breed AND where each puppy goes..... not to mention a breeder who will be there for the life of that puppy. When you support a "bargain" breeder, you are usually supporting someone who does not give lifetime support, does not check out potential homes, and does not take a dog back for any reason. You are supporting someone who will have dogs that end up in high kill shelters, or who live their life on a chain in a yard..... if you truly care about dogs in general, you don't support those kinds of breeders, because it is NOT just about the dog you buy..... it is about all the dogs they produce.

I can sometimes understand where people want to cut corners and look for a bargain puppy - our society is all about bargains. However, I'd like to think that a "PHD" would understand the true bargain of going to a breeder that is totally invested in producing the best dog they can and then always being there as a resource for the owner - it is kinda like the visa ad from a few years ago where they say at the end "priceless". I tell people that if they don't like me to not buy a puppy from me - because I come with the dog and I expect people to stay in touch with me throughout that dogs life.

Buying from a reputable breeder takes more work on your part - we don't breed them like they are rabbits and it (for the most part) is not how we make our living. We are picky about who we sell to and have waiting lists for a litter that may not happen for awhile.

Ok - I'm done.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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If u plan to crop the puppy u will pay another four to five hundred for that. Why not pay the $1500 to $2000 up front and u will get a well pews puppy who's parents are health tested and the ears will be cropped and healed before u bring her home.
Not to mention, a good breeder who does it before the puppy goes home will have a good vet who they know will do a good job and the puppy will have a beautiful crop that fits the individual dog.

When owners try to do it after the fact, they struggle with finding a vet who knows Doberman crops in their area, otherwise they end up with an ugly crop - not to mention dealing with all the initial healing and aftercare. No new owner should have to deal with that.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Also, its the parents that need the health testing. Not the puppy
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think this is a very important link for you to check out.

Cost of breeding a Doberman litter

With litters often costing far beyond $10,000, and litters often as small as 4-6 puppies (or less) it doesn't take a genius to figure out that breeders can't be taking such a hit as to charge less than $1,000.

And I know that people new to the breed don't understand the importance of these test, but dobermans are dreadfully unhealthy. Hips, eyes, heart (holter, echo, and hopefully also the genetic test,) and thyroid are just the beginning. Including a stud fee, the majority of ethical breeders will need to search extremely far and wide for the perfect stud for their girl, and that can be very expensive.

And last, but not least, people show their dogs to have an unbiased third party declare that the dogs are physically sound and good examples of their breed. Physically sound dogs can grow old without falling apart, so in 12 years (if your dogs heart lasts that long, we can only hope they did the testing) she would still be able to move comfortably and without your help. With few exceptions, each dog bred should have achieved a conformation championship (AKC CH.) Some very experienced breeders will use untitled dogs from time to time, but their experience lets them see past the faults that kept them from being a champion, and breed them to a dog that will fix those faults and compliment their strengths. Either way, in each pedigree, the majority of dogs will have their CH

Every last bit is important, because tens of thousands of loving animals are sitting cold and alone in shelters this minute, getting ever closer to the euth room. Saying this is not being too dramatic, it's REALITY. I love beautiful well bred dogs, but there's hardly any excuse to be breeding at all while animals are dying in shelters, if a breeder wants to breed, they'd better be doing everything they can to prove their animals are the best of the best.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D View Post
Rescues won't accept my "farm" as I refuse to chain link 90 acres when my only neighbor is the vet... No I don't want an older dog I've had several rescue dobermans and this is a gift, I want a good mentally sound, no problems female doberman. Rescues are sweet but I do not have the time to work with a puppy to fix whatever someone else screwed up. I can afford to go get another from ahrens breeder- I have no desire to spend that much money on a dog right now when it's not needed there are plenty of pups for $250-$300 akc and meet my requirements except some if the test I can have run myself- if I can't find one for under a grand from a recommended kennel before valentines day.
No reputable breeder that I've ever talked to, of any breed, would sell a "gift" puppy. These breeders won't sell a puppy to a household unless everybody in the family, including the person that the puppy was for, was on board. Since you've not mentioned your SO or anybody else I can only assume that this is a surprise gift.

I'm glad you're here as you have a lot to learn but I worry about who/what your money will end up supporting and the dogs that could suffer because of it.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffly Speaking - "I don't want a show dog, I just want a pet"
This is one of the most pervasive statements that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER- don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often invasive interview process, and think that they can get a better deal because they can get a Lab for $150 or a Shepherd for $300.

I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show bred dog. And I want you to realize the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious, and when your co-worker says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that he's buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself in to your solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.

Here's why:

If I ask you why you want a German Shepherd, or a Maltese, or a Labrador, or a Leonberger, would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationship with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate and intelligent you've heard they are, or how well they get along with kids.

The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog", they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.

That's where people have made the right initial decision- they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds, and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.

The next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.

You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off of a new car, observing them as they use bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.

It's no bargain.

Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because someone worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog- the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog- but it will not be a great Shepherd, or a great Puli, or a great Corgi. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.

If you don't NEED those specialized abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you shouldn't be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you are saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it doesn't belong.

If you want a purebred and know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.

Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you are looking at is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than just a breed name, you are getting no bargain, you are only getting ripped off.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
No reputable breeder that I've ever talked to, of any breed, would sell a "gift" puppy. These breeders won't sell a puppy to a household unless everybody in the family, including the person that the puppy was for, was on board. Since you've not mentioned your SO or anybody else I can only assume that this is a surprise gift.

I'm glad you're here as you have a lot to learn but I worry about who/what your money will end up supporting and the dogs that could suffer because of it.
oh man, i didn't even catch that.


LIVING CREATURES ARE NOT GIFTS. REPEAT: LIVING CREATURES ARE NOT GIFTS.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I get the feeling you're a craigslist kind of guy. Good luck.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Eeek...that "thanks" was a terrible accident. Darn iPhone. Pay no mind.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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im not sure that i would recommend you getting a Dobermann if you want to cut corners on it.

If you dont want to rescue and you dont want to pay real money for a Dobermann i would say dont bother getting one at all...
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It is amazing all if you missed that the 1,000 did not include the ear crop- not sure if you ever widened your narrow minds but some people like floppy ears... I also said I did NOT want show lines obviously your points about cost to show are pointless, I bought a show quality doberman that was shown 2 times and I got bored- dog shows are not for me, as far as flying it would take more than a day as if I fly out there I want to observe the parents, other puppies ect. Not pick up and go- as far as health testing there are a limited # of test I care about due to having no desire to breed ever-


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Old 12-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns View Post
You can, but it will not be a well-bred puppy and will be from a backyard breeder who doesn't take health, conformation or longevity into consideration because they are too busy breeding anything with 4 legs to make a profit.

You seem like a smart guy, PhD username guy... Don't you want a family member who will be around for (hopefully) 10+ years have a solid pedigree of health and longevity? When you buy from a BYB, you are basically taking a gamble. We're not taking about a simple vet visit and general labwork. We're talking cardiac testing, hips and elbows, thyroid, vWD, temperament testing, etc. All these things cost a breeder a lot of money, and are done to ensure the line doesn't have any serious defects that will be passed down to your puppy. Personally, I don't wouldn't want to half-ass it and cheap out only to have a dog with temperament problems or die of cardio disease at the age of 4.

Buying from a good breeder doesn't mean you're getting a show dog. There are pet quality dogs in every good breeder's litter (I have one myself, click on my sig for my YouTube channel for an example of a pet quality dog from a good breeder). It just means you will get a well-bred animal whose line has been proven conformationally sound and is as healthy as possible given the long list of problems associated with this breed.

I personally don't know of any good breeders in Texas, though I'm sure there are some, so its unlikely you'll need to worry about hopping a plane or anything like that. You could start with this thread: Recommended Breeders!, and also visit the DPCA site for a listing of breeders in your state.

Good luck, and please stick around. There's a wealth of information here
Yes there is also a wealth of dogmatic snobs who do not bother to read the information given- I never asked for someone's opinion, I was asking for kennel recommendations. Everyone wants to bash byb but when you ask for a good kennel you get the 5th degree.


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Old 12-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I believe people also missed that this puppy is a gift... As in not going to live with me- well she eventually will lol but as a puppy she will be living with my fiancÚ until we get married and get a house.


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