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Old 12-26-2012, 01:38 AM   #51 (permalink)
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No I did not, I knew ckc was a joke I was under the impression they sti required testing of mom and dad to ensure that was the pair thy created the puppies- hmm perhaps I will just have to buy another from England they seem to have more reputable registries.

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According to the CKC website, the only time the require a DNA test on the parents is if the parentage is in question. But since you say that papers don't matter...
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:00 AM   #52 (permalink)
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According to the CKC website, the only time the require a DNA test on the parents is if the parentage is in question. But since you say that papers don't matter...
Sorry dear, I meant AKC with the DNA testing on the parents, I know CKC is a joke, I registered a red healer/pit cross as a doberman with a picture and they sent me papers back. I was under the impression most of your puppy mills used CKC especially for their "designer breeds" as AKC would not allow this. Seems they have lowered their standards if she is correct.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:02 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Garrett's Dobermans Puppy Site

Doberman Pinscher Puppies dobermansullinger.com

http://www.texassizedobes.com/index.html

Does anyone know anything about either of those Kennels? No negativity if you have heard of them or have dealt with them please let me know- I have enough opinions from others on the matter.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:06 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Ugh. Use the search function. I'm too full of turkey to go past your first one:

Garretts Dobermans is at it again

Seriously, if you don't want to get advice on a reputable breeder, why are you even bothering..

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Old 12-26-2012, 02:31 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Second one is Hoytt and Kimbertal bloodlines (according to info on the very first screen). Interestingly, a few random health tests seem to have been done on varying dogs (Thyroid on one, hips on another, etc.) They also send the pups home at 7 weeks which, depending on the state, is against the law. It's also inadvisable due to the developmental period a puppy will be in at that age, as pertains to socialization and bite inhibition.

Third one talks about oversized dogs: "My Dobermans are bred to reach sizes of 28 to 32 inches tall. With 30 inches tall being the most common." They talk about their sire being a "larger sized working line", which is something of a contradiction. A Doberman is meant to be a medium sized breed, and larger sizes are compromising to hips/elbows/joints. They also claim champions in their dogs' histories, but with the pedigrees that they've posted, at a glance I don't see any champions.

Granted, I do not have personal experience with any of them, but the factors I listed are not ones that will ensure a long lived and healthy addition to your family. They do appear to be within your stated price range.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:43 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Second one is Hoytt and Kimbertal bloodlines (according to info on the very first screen). Interestingly, a few random health tests seem to have been done on varying dogs (Thyroid on one, hips on another, etc.) They also send the pups home at 7 weeks which, depending on the state, is against the law. It's also inadvisable due to the developmental period a puppy will be in at that age, as pertains to socialization and bite inhibition.

Third one talks about oversized dogs: "My Dobermans are bred to reach sizes of 28 to 32 inches tall. With 30 inches tall being the most common." They talk about their sire being a "larger sized working line", which is something of a contradiction. A Doberman is meant to be a medium sized breed, and larger sizes are compromising to hips/elbows/joints. They also claim champions in their dogs' histories, but with the pedigrees that they've posted, at a glance I don't see any champions.

Granted, I do not have personal experience with any of them, but the factors I listed are not ones that will ensure a long lived and healthy addition to your family. They do appear to be within your stated price range.
From what I could tell in pictures they are not very large, I wonder if perhaps they didn't mean larger in comparison to some of the dobermans who are starting to show up that are tiny in comparison. I met a 45 pound female 3 year old doberman the other day she was just so small, perhaps that is what they meant by larger? Thank you for your POLITE response, I was beginning to wonder if it was possible to get a polite response that was informative- Would you have a kennel you would recommend looking into?
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:08 AM   #57 (permalink)
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No I did not, I knew ckc was a joke I was under the impression they sti required testing of mom and dad to ensure that was the pair thy created the puppies- hmm perhaps I will just have to buy another from England they seem to have more reputable registries.
Or you could just do your research. There is PLENTY of reputable breeders here. Its a lot easier to get scammed when buying from overseas.

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From what I could tell in pictures they are not very large, I wonder if perhaps they didn't mean larger in comparison to some of the dobermans who are starting to show up that are tiny in comparison. I met a 45 pound female 3 year old doberman the other day she was just so small, perhaps that is what they meant by larger? Thank you for your POLITE response, I was beginning to wonder if it was possible to get a polite response that was informative- Would you have a kennel you would recommend looking into?
Read the standard if you haven't already. They are a medium size breed. Advertising the dogs as 30 inches is not breeding to the standard. They are not supposed to be large dogs.

Also, maybe I'm not remembering right but I am fairly certain your dog doesn't come from a reputable breeder. I was deleted from the group shortly after you said who it was though, so correct me if I'm wrong. Nothing wrong with making the mistake though, there is plenty of people on here who we accept after they admit they were wrong and should have researched more. I hope you make the right decision this time around.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:13 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Also, maybe I'm not remembering right but I am fairly certain your dog doesn't come from a reputable breeder. I was deleted from the group shortly after you said who it was though, so correct me if I'm wrong. Nothing wrong with making the mistake though, there is plenty of people on here who we accept after they admit they were wrong and should have researched more. I hope you make the right decision this time around.

He comes from a very reputable breeder, Brown Chief Kennels

Puppies > Brown Chief > Teraline Midgard x Arwen > Mating
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:19 AM   #59 (permalink)
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The puppy from their last litter is for sale but its another male, They aren't expecting anytime soon, and wont be breeding again for another 6 months for me to get the black female I want or I would use them again.

http://www.brownchief.dk/index.php?c=home (there actual site, takes a while to load and is a little hard to see/read)
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Comment on Garretts Dobermans. Their pet bred puppies from parents with no health testing cost more then good puppies from reputable breeders. They are WAY out of your price range.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:53 AM   #61 (permalink)
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This guy sounds like a jerk, And your have a PHd dude i think you can afford it im a landscaper and just bought a pup for 1800. you pay for what you get. Even thou he is driving me nuts today lol
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:03 AM   #62 (permalink)
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This guy sounds like a jerk, And your have a PHd dude i think you can afford it im a landscaper and just bought a pup for 1800. you pay for what you get. Even thou he is driving me nuts today lol
Well, a lot of diligence can get you a Ph.D. Getting a Ph.D. does not, however, require common sense! And no, I'm not jealous. I'm a physician, and I know at least a few doctors whose lack of common sense makes my head spin!

Not saying you don't have common sense, OP, but I would think you would be research-oriented and know how to dig through a bunch of garbage to find the facts. That's why I'm a little confused as to why you're willing to purchase a gift without doing your homework in several areas. If you did your due diligence and are still going to purchase a cheap dog - cheap meaning many things, not just price - I think you're in the wrong place.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:05 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
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From what I could tell in pictures they are not very large, I wonder if perhaps they didn't mean larger in comparison to some of the dobermans who are starting to show up that are tiny in comparison. I met a 45 pound female 3 year old doberman the other day she was just so small, perhaps that is what they meant by larger? Thank you for your POLITE response, I was beginning to wonder if it was possible to get a polite response that was informative- Would you have a kennel you would recommend looking into?
I do agree, in the pictures, it is hard to get a sense of their size. In at least one of them, though, the dog's head is almost level with the top of the chain link fence, which I assume to be of a standard size. For comparison, just this weekend at my grandparents' house, I was nervous in their back yard when my Elka (unfortunately oversized at 29ish inches) concentrated on stuff outside the chain link fence, because her head was within a few inches of the top. I believe 28 inches is what's listed at the top of the male ideal.

So far as kennel recommendations, I have none. I've really only looked into breeders in the New York state area. I guess I'd suggest looking at the DPCA breeder referral list, and entering a dialogue with some of them regarding what you're looking for in a puppy. Not necessarily a good breeder failsafe, but they've gone through at least one "layer" of both doing something with their dogs and being involved with the breed community.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:42 AM   #64 (permalink)
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As far as non show pups of a litter, that is something I would consider but again a cording to everyone on here I should simply buy one off Craigslist or Just Dobermans....
I believe any such comment was made sarcastically in exasperation due to the fact that you have the attitude that you are just going to do what you want anyway. Though I am glad you returned to this thread, wasn't sure if you would

No one on this forum would seriously recommend buying a puppy off Craigslist or Just Dobermans (except maybe for the occasional BYB backers that crawl out of the sewers now and again...)
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:02 AM   #65 (permalink)
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So are you or are you nt wanting to pay over $1000?
What is it that you're really wiling to pay for a dog?

I ask because you've given some really conflicting information here. First you don't want to pay over $1000 but then you link to a greeder, Garrett's, whose dogs cost over double that amount.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:04 AM   #66 (permalink)
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You might do some research on form follows function. As well as research why most breeders do NOT have both parents on site. As well as research on testing the entire pedigree and looking at pedigree testing horizontally (Aunts, Uncles, littermates, etc.).
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:10 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Adara I think you hit the nail on the head by recommending the OP do her own research. There is a wealth of good information on this site.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:22 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D View Post
I was thinking I would get suggestions on good kennels to look at other than the one I typically buy from.
You actually got several polite responses from a number of members, myself included, telling you that you're not going to find what you are looking for, for under $1000. We certainly could have given you breeder recommendations in your State, but your criteria will not be met.

So here you go. Check with the following breeders in Texas. If they don't/won't have anything available, they can probably refer you to someone that will.

Horizon
Merrymac
Rhapsody
Sunburg
Touchstone

Google the kennel name + dobermans and you will find them.

I will tell you up front, however, that not only will pet puppies from these breeders be in excess of $1k, they will have their ears cropped, and their parents will have had all of their health testing and not just whatever is important to you. In addition, all puppies will be AKC registered and come on limited (must be spayed/neutered) registration.

I am glad to see that you came back to this thread and I hope you will realize that people are just trying to help you in your search. You can repeat "it must be possible to get a pet puppy for under 1k" over and over and over.... and the reality is that it IS possible, but not from the kind of breeder you are interested in. As you are probably aware, you can get cheap puppies all day long from any number of breeders on the JD facebook page.

Contact the breeders I mentioned, be open minded and hear what they have to say. What they do, why they do it and so forth.

Once again, good luck!
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:01 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BenVera View Post
I'm SO glad you pointed this out as I was wondering if anyone was going to get around to the fact that the OP said this puppy is a "gift". To clarify, ALL dogs are gifts, but they are definitely NOT presents.

Look into rescue. Good luck.
Just using your post as a springboard, BV, 'k?

I've seen "look into rescue" thrown out there quite a number of times, on this forum, and it just does not give me the warm-fuzzies.

If a potential buyer does not care about the health of the puppy, and is not willing to spend X amount of money on "just a dog," well, then--they would not meet my personal screening criteria for adopting a rescue, either.

In other words, if they do not meet the requirements for screening of a reputable breeder, then they surely should not meet the requirements for adopting from an ethical rescue, right?

I know the rescued Dobermans aren't as "pretty" or as "fancy" as well-bred Dobermans, but they are living beings who had a rough start in life, through no fault of their own, and they deserve the same care and consideration in being placed in adoptive homes as those well-bred pups do being placed in purchasers' homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D View Post
Sorry dear, I meant AKC with the DNA testing on the parents, I know CKC is a joke, I registered a red healer/pit cross as a doberman with a picture and they sent me papers back. I was under the impression most of your puppy mills used CKC especially for their "designer breeds" as AKC would not allow this. Seems they have lowered their standards if she is correct.
Speaking of lowering standards, are you kidding us? You are openly discussing committing registration fraud, here on DT.

Wow.

I don't even care to know why you obtained fraudulent papers on that dog, esp. as you've repeated several times that you don't care about papers unless you have a specific purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D View Post
He comes from a very reputable breeder, Brown Chief Kennels

Puppies > Brown Chief > Teraline Midgard x Arwen > Mating
Please tell me I'm reading that litter page wrong, and they did not have 18 litters in 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avianantics View Post
You actually got several polite responses from a number of members, myself included, telling you that you're not going to find what you are looking for, for under $1000. We certainly could have given you breeder recommendations in your State, but your criteria will not be met.

So here you go. Check with the following breeders in Texas. If they don't/won't have anything available, they can probably refer you to someone that will.

Horizon
Merrymac
Rhapsody
Sunburg
Touchstone

Google the kennel name + dobermans and you will find them.

I will tell you up front, however, that not only will pet puppies from these breeders be in excess of $1k, they will have their ears cropped, and their parents will have had all of their health testing and not just whatever is important to you. In addition, all puppies will be AKC registered and come on limited (must be spayed/neutered) registration.

I am glad to see that you came back to this thread and I hope you will realize that people are just trying to help you in your search. You can repeat "it must be possible to get a pet puppy for under 1k" over and over and over.... and the reality is that it IS possible, but not from the kind of breeder you are interested in. As you are probably aware, you can get cheap puppies all day long from any number of breeders on the JD facebook page.

Contact the breeders I mentioned, be open minded and hear what they have to say. What they do, why they do it and so forth.

Once again, good luck!
^^^Saintly levels of patience.

Which I don't have, after all this time.

SGranger, still not even close to sure you have one or two or seventeen PhDs, but I am quite sure you have an FOS.

Try entertaining yourself some other way, rather than sparring with the good folks here, who have dogs to train, and rescues to foster.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Red fawn rising- she was registered to prove they are a joke registry. She is obviously a mutt and will be fixed ASAP-


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Old 12-26-2012, 03:15 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Red fawn rising- she was registered to prove they are a joke registry. She is obviously a mutt and will be fixed ASAP-


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Will be fixed. ASAP. Riiiiiight.

We've never heard promises like that before, here.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:09 PM   #72 (permalink)
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[quote=RedFawnRising;1212405

^^^Saintly levels of patience. [/QUOTE]

Yes, well... I did raise 2 children, have 5 grandchildren and have raised upteen Doberpups... Patience is something I acquired long ago.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:46 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I also thought that I would mention some things that are of importance that may have been overlooked and underspoken.

2 months is a quite an unlikely deadline for a reputably bred puppy. Most litters from reputable breeders fill up before the breeding actually takes place, and some have year-long waiting lists.

Also, reputable breeders will not sell to an individual who is planning to give this puppy as a present, unless the individual on the receiving end is totally aware of the present, and the buyer is just footing the bill. Even still, most reputable breeders are wary of the aforesaid scenario, as this leaves a loophole in contracts involving the puppy and returning rights if something were to go awry with the puppy/home situation.

I am so pleased your dog is a great representative of this spectacular breed. Would you be inclined to name the breeder of your dog?

I also am a great fan of Rhapsody and Irina is a wonderful custodian of the breed.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:47 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Just using your post as a springboard, BV, 'k?

I've seen "look into rescue" thrown out there quite a number of times, on this forum, and it just does not give me the warm-fuzzies.

If a potential buyer does not care about the health of the puppy, and is not willing to spend X amount of money on "just a dog," well, then--they would not meet my personal screening criteria for adopting a rescue, either.

In other words, if they do not meet the requirements for screening of a reputable breeder, then they surely should not meet the requirements for adopting from an ethical rescue, right?

I know the rescued Dobermans aren't as "pretty" or as "fancy" as well-bred Dobermans, but they are living beings who had a rough start in life, through no fault of their own, and they deserve the same care and consideration in being placed in adoptive homes as those well-bred pups do being placed in purchasers' homes.
You are certainly right, RFR. I bet she would NOT meet any of the requirements of either reputable breeder or rescue for placement of a puppy or adult.

If she insists on pursuing this, I still think a rescue is an option, but only if her fiance is a huge part of the process and this poor dog is NOT purchased as a gift. He needs to pick the dog himself, or there should be no dog at all.

OP, it's not like you're buying a shirt for him at the store. You can't stick the receipt in the box with it in case he wants to return it later on.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:47 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D View Post
Sorry dear, I meant AKC with the DNA testing on the parents, I know CKC is a joke, I registered a red healer/pit cross as a doberman with a picture and they sent me papers back. I was under the impression most of your puppy mills used CKC especially for their "designer breeds" as AKC would not allow this. Seems they have lowered their standards if she is correct.
Last time I looked, you don't need to DNA the parents for AKC except in certain circumstances, either. Those include 1) imported dogs; 2) frequently used sires; 3) multiple sired litters; 4) litters where parentage is disputed. Oh, and lots of puppymill dogs are AKC registered.
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